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Ankh
Angel Constellation
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL:DR: CONCORD need to redraw their protectorate map, to better reflect player demographics in 2011, not 2003! Interested? read on...
Back in 2003, when everyone was a noob, the EVE map was open space for everyone. Empire space was where everyone started out, and if you wanted PvP or richer pickings for more risk, you ventured into null. Pretty much everyone travelled freely between the two, running the gank-gauntlet of choke points between the two. Everyone had to travel down the pipes to get in and out of null, and most people did!
The game has changed a lot since then. Alliances, jump-bridges, bubbles and blobbing... the list has been well documented on these forums. These have all changed the dynamic, we now have much less travel between hi-sec and null, with the player base split into stereotypes of nullers, w-holers, carebears etc.
What hasn't changed much in all that time is the sec status of systems, and the CONCORD presence in them. Some hi-sec systems have a large Concord presence, but have almost zero pod pilot's present. Other low-sec and null-sec systems have a high population, or have become busy, vital trade routes... yet with sero CONCORD presence.
So isn't it about time the officals at CONCORD redrew the map? Their precious resources should be deployed where they are needed to protect the people, not twiddling their thumbs or browsing the NeX catalogue in empty systems.
Before you all start trolling, just think about this for a minute. Vast tracks of hi-sec empire space would become either low-sec or even abandoned altogether, becoming null. In exchange, a modest number of null systems would gain a CONCORD presence... mostly trade routes, I'm guessing. Most importantly, the massive single bloc that is null would become much more accessible as the pipes are opened up through CONCORD protection... and there would be many smaller null-zones right in the middle of hi-sec space. The close proximity between null and high sec areas would dramatically increase interaction between the two, and the current cosy alliance map would have to be partially redefined.
CONCORD protected highways into null, lots of new 'rat runs' opening up, nullsec constellations in the heart of hi-sec... Sounds like a lot of fun for everyone! 
Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
lots of work, not so much reward. |

Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Interesting idea. But many people would rage. Blacklight Incorporated: Recruiting now for PvP and Industry. |

Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
136
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
To this point, a reactive sov system would be great, and would give eve the feeling of actually being alive.
Imagine if large numbers of suicide ganks in a system would lead to concord blockades and temporary sec boosts in that system.
Imagine if mostly unused systems gradually decayed in sec status.
Imagine if nulsec truesec changed based on alliance industry, ratting, and ihub upgrades.
|

Ankh
Angel Constellation
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:lots of work, not so much reward.
Is it really a lot of work for CCP? I was thinking a simple alogrythm, where sec status is derived from player generated statistics such as 'average number of pod-pilots in space during the last month', or something like that.
Yes, it would mean a lot of work for some players. But then that's part of the purpose, to stir things up a bit. I would imagine CONCORD would make announcements about the changes well in advance. Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
I feel I should point out that a lot of those busy systems passing through lowsec are extremely intentional by design. Lowsec is supposed to be more profitable - lvl 5s, much better rats, faster and more direct trade routes, etc. The idea is that people actually *gasp* occasionally leave the little bubble that is highsec and experience EVE Online. |

Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
136
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:I feel I should point out that a lot of those busy systems passing through lowsec are extremely intentional by design. Lowsec is supposed to be more profitable - lvl 5s, much better rats, faster and more direct trade routes, etc. The idea is that people actually *gasp* occasionally leave the little bubble that is highsec and experience EVE Online.
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes - and the risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly. |

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
242
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
oh god  |

Major Templar
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your right, Concord should redraw their lines. But I propose the other way around. Lets just remove them completely and make all of EVE 0.0 space. Yarr. 
Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye. |

Ankh
Angel Constellation
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Major Templar wrote:...Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye.
Err, I think you missed the point. The new null would still be dragon land, exactly the same mechanics as now. Only it would be in different systems, and a lot of it will be where hi-sec is now.  Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Zaine Maltis
Innsmouth Enterprises
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Although I like the dynamic-ness of the idea, the bit that you are missing is that it isn't just Capsuleers in Eve space. There are plenty of normals out there living in these systems and would be protected by Concord? Just because players don't go there, doesn't mean that it's just empty in game world terms. Innsmouth Enterprises
|

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ankh wrote:Other low-sec and null-sec systems have a high population, or have become busy, vital trade routes... yet with sero CONCORD presence.
Pretty sure most of these hubs would not take kindly to CONCORD passing through, and they aren't covered for a reason.
Ankh wrote: So isn't it about time the officals at CONCORD redrew the map? Their precious resources should be deployed where they are needed to protect the people, not twiddling their thumbs or browsing the NeX catalogue in empty systems.
Sounds like every police force, ever?
Ankh wrote: Vast tracks of hi-sec empire space would become either low-sec or even abandoned altogether, becoming null. In exchange, a modest number of null systems would gain a CONCORD presence... mostly trade routes, I'm guessing.
This accomplishes nothing except outraging nearly every single group of players.
Ankh wrote: The close proximity between null and high sec areas would dramatically increase interaction between the two, and the current cosy alliance map would have to be partially redefined.
They're already pretty damn close, and interaction between them is quite high, especially considering most alliances supply the majority of their hub markets with highsec goods. Alliance level production tends to be focused on fleet ships and modules.
Ankh wrote: CONCORD protected highways into null, lots of new 'rat runs' opening up
the highways already exist. and riskless high value rat runs? doesn't that kind of defeat the whole point of risk versus reward? its only the core mechanic of EVE...
|

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
75
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
This game has a map? I that the black screed with the colored dots and the giant text? |

DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
84
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alot of people will troll as it's unfashionable to agree with posts like this, but I could see this, if executed properly being a refreshing change. Damn nature, you scary! |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1472
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
hullo Ankhamasenkpth
how are things in holland and how is the pirate bay party doing
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Sinitron
Archaic Legion.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
So basically, Caldari space would become 100% high-sec and everywhere else would be even more dead than it is now. |

Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
135
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
The four empires should be devided by low sec faction warfare grounds. Concord should not hold presence there, but the militias can fight for control, where say if ammarian FW guys control it, members of the amarr militia are treated as protected by ammarian 'concord' so their haulers would be safe, but minmitar haulers were completely without protection.
All trade routes should pass through at least 1 lowsec system, but there should be multiple routes, so savy traders can take longer quieter routes, but ballsy ones could take the shorter route, and run the pie gauntlet. This should better distribute the pies, and make more fun for everyone.
People unwilling to risk their freighter through lowsec, could stop one freighter just before the lowsec run, courier their gear through the lowsecs in cloakies, then continue on their merry way.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |

Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
30
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shivus Tao wrote:To this point, a reactive sov system would be great, and would give eve the feeling of actually being alive.
Imagine if large numbers of suicide ganks in a system would lead to concord blockades and temporary sec boosts in that system.
Imagine if mostly unused systems gradually decayed in sec status.
Imagine if nulsec truesec changed based on alliance industry, ratting, and ihub upgrades.
I've been pushing this for years. Sec status on the empire border systems should be dynamic.
Pirate missions should be opened in lowsec, and concord missions to oppose them. They help to raise and lower the sec status of a system but also factor in other things as well (population average, other NPC kills, FW) |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
337
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
A more eve(olving) universe would be nice, to be fair CCP has in the past changed system status and gatelinks so I assume its not totally off the table.
It would be hard to have such a big change as you propose though. I would hope that as the game evolves even more some regions like FW and low sec would get a mechanism that would enhance and/or destroy sec status over a long period of time based on all kinds of meterics/events/incursions/conquest/concord intervention. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Valei Khurelem
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Malcom Dax wrote:Interesting idea. But many people would rage.
Perfect! Lets put the plan into action! |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
314
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Creating a dynamic system for Eve would be the "shake up" this game desperately needs. However this would be pointless, until low-sec actually becomes something unique and worth wild. Otherwise it would just **** everyone off. |

Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
135
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Also anyone that is interested in a revitalisation of lowsec, should head over to mittens blog at ten ton, he actually has a few good ideas about lowsec revitalistion.
All we can do at the moment, is hope that seeing as CCP has appeased the nullbears and HI-bears for the last patches, that the next major content patch will be lowsec focused. And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |

Prince Kobol
90
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.
Yet many null sec peeps state this is the opposite...
Did you ask your Goons Masters for permission before you posted? |

Azro Zora
The Hatchery Team Liquid
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.
so you went from beeing really terrible to just beeing really bad. ic |

Taint
A Pack Of Wolfes
19
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Like this idea :) |

VaMei
Meafi Corp
75
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 14:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Major Templar wrote:Your right, Concord should redraw their lines. But I propose the other way around. Lets just remove them completely and make all of EVE 0.0 space. Yarr. 
My 1st reaction was the same; we need less Concord not more. Even a diehard carebear should know that Pew-Pew and Yarr!! is the engine that drives the economy. When players stop blowing things up and getting blown up, they stop buying goods to replace what has been lost. When that happens, the carebear is out of a job.
But on thinking a bit more, if it was limited only to Empire space, I could see a system of dynamic system security ratings as an interesting mechanic. Done in conjunction with dynamic agent rewards (over utilized agents give lower rewards, while unused agents give greater rewards), it could be very interesting and would reward players for spreading out rather than following the herd.
|

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 14:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ankh wrote:Major Templar wrote:...Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye. Err, I think you missed the point. The new null would still be dragon land, exactly the same mechanics as now. Only it would be in different systems, and a lot of it will be where hi-sec is now.  Well... and the activity in NPC "zero" sec would potentially lead to an increase in security level eventully allow for much better mining and ratting under CONCORD protection. The proposed system works both ways. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |

ovenproofjet
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 14:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Smells of Carebeaer wanting another suicide ganking nerf. By the logic presented systems like Niarja, popular for ganking because of 0.5 sec and high traffic, would loose their "charm"  |

Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 15:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
ovenproofjet wrote:Smells of Carebeaer wanting another suicide ganking nerf. By the logic presented systems like Niarja, popular for ganking because of 0.5 sec and high traffic, would loose their "charm" 
That bit of the suggestion does make sense though. You'd expect Concord to react and protect key trade routes and player traffic would establish it. |

Malcolm Gunn
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 15:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
It could be set up so that CONCORD has finite resources to maintain sec status in systems.
IE: If sec status increases in one system yielding greater CONCORD presence, there should be a sec status decrease in at least one other less traveled system. |

Farethria
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 17:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Damned interesting idea. It gets at a problem, which is access to low/null sec space through only a few choke points mean the carebears won't try. What we need is a thinner hisec, with a lot more tendrils and access into low and null sec space.
The current system causes those (HED-GP) access points to low/null sec to be continuously camped, either by the large alliances or some gank gang, either way the carebears aren't coming. But what if nullsec had hundreds of openings, large alliances would be forced to actively protect their space, and when stretched thin they would have to make a decision on what to hold, and not be able to hold huge areas by holding a few key systems.
A little bit more like real space also.
How about the sov holder gets to set the sec level? wouldn't that be interesting - islands of hisec in nullsec. |

Barakkus
1193
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 17:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
They should just reverse null and highsec systems one day with no warning...all of null becomes highsec and all highsec becomes null...just for a day...would be hilarious... http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2059
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 17:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
GǪsure, with the addendum that areas with high pirate presence become nullsec because, obviously, the pirates have taken the place over.
This means constellations such as Suon,Santenpaa, Karnola, Perud, CoriaultGǪ you know, the usual spots?  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Niamo Higate
The Minutemen NEM3SIS.
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 17:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
While the idea of changing the sec status of already high security systems to adapt to what the players are doing is great, the fact that you mentioned changing some parts of null space makes this idea ridiculous. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
601
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 17:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Pod Pilots do not control the security of the space,
Regular people do. And when regular people make that space very hazardous for other people to the point concord cant do anything about it or the empire police forces they stop bothering.
Remember Concord doesnt have the ability to wft uber pwn anything else that doesnt have a capsuleer pilotining it. Special jovian pod jamming technology makes that possible.
|

Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
170
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 17:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
I have been wanting dynamic system sec status for a loooonnnnggg time now. Why should high sec always remain high sec? I was so looking forward to incursions shutting off CONCORD in a system. |

Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 18:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Farethria wrote:The current system causes those (HED-GP) access points to low/null sec to be continuously camped, either by the large alliances or some gank gang, either way the carebears aren't coming. But what if nullsec had hundreds of openings, large alliances would be forced to actively protect their space, and when stretched thin they would have to make a decision on what to hold, and not be able to hold huge areas by holding a few key systems.
A little bit more like real space also. This has always been the problem I've seen. Once you get out to the raggedy edge, suddenly you're taking a long bridge to low or null. the next bridge could be 10 systems over. I can only imagine they put these choke points in intentionally, to foment battle. But as was said, constant gate camps by seasoned PvPers now throws up a big roadblock for young players. The border needs to be more porous in those places.
To the main idea: I'd love to see that sort of shake-up. High pod kill areas get Concord swarmed and their sec status raised dynamically. Hi-sec areas with little population or traffic lose Concord's interest, and start to lose security. Lo-sec ares with high traffic or market or POS's or whatever get security protection. Et cetera.
It would make the game feel alive. When plotting your route, you'd have to actually pay attention to the current sec status. Long used routes would slowly change, and if you want to avoid the new lower sec systems, you have to find a new route. Adds a modicum of planning and tactics to something as mindless as freight hauling. Oases of hi-sec could start popping up in lo or null, providing brief havens for those wearied by the constant cold wars. Conversely, lo and null could creep into the edges of hi where few bother setting up.
A constantly emergent universe that reacts based on player actions. It would be glorious. And it would cause a firestorm the likes of which might ignite the pants of the bloated, slothful lords of the dragon lands, who have long since slain all the beasts and claimed their hoards for themselves.
|

Averyia
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 18:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ankh wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:lots of work, not so much reward. Is it really a lot of work for CCP? I was thinking a simple alogrythm, where sec status is derived from player generated statistics such as 'average number of pod-pilots in space during the last month', or something like that. Yes, it would mean a lot of work for some players. But then that's part of the purpose, to stir things up a bit. I would imagine CONCORD would make announcements about the changes well in advance.
There is your mistake right their. You think that any change to fundamental game mechanics would "only" require a "simple" "algorythm".
One, in a program as complicated as Eve, there is no such think as a "simple change".
Two, your overall idea begs the question... why? Why should the large empires have Concord protect anything outside of their borders. Pod pilots knew what they were signing up for, near immortality for the freedom to do whatever they want. Except here, here, and here. |

Xolve
Epidemic.
122
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 18:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Its a good idea, would just have to be part of something bigger; I don't think the larger alliances, holding vast tracks of Sov would be happy if their memberbase turned their truesec -1.0 into a 1.0 via carebearing. Leave nullsec alone, and the way it is; messing with this would just **** off most of the playerbase; and further cripple the Dominion Sov system (for example what would happen to outposts and other nullsec only stuff if it was 'suddenly empire'?).
A reactive system sec status in high sec would be interesting, it would have to be a slow evolution, and handled at downtime or the acts of a few could seriously sway important systems.. For instance, Jita would practically instantly be 0.0 by your proposition, unless they would factor in bordering systems and their sec status to effectively change other systems. The Madmirillire and Niarja would also see over night drops in System Sec as well.
I'm all for shaking things up a bit, but it would definitely need to be done properly.. have the negative aspects such as Ganking, Pods Destroyed, Aggression, Etc factor against Missions, Incursions, and Ratting. Have people that enjoy their highsec utopia have to work on defending it from the empire yarrbears. You could even work the individual security status of players that inhabit those systems play into it as well.
This is a pretty great idea, just needs some thought, time and tuning. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
|

Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 19:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.
Perhaps you could start a thread to explain this to all the nullbears looking for welfare? They seem to think they are underpaid and unappreciated.
|

Alexa Coates
LNTC
22
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Op's idea is good. For the people trying to force everyone into null/low, go f'k yourself. People (like me) want to play our way, not yours. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |

Mistress Motion
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
The problem would be ofcourse, how you would determine the sec status. Quick thinking about this:
Nullsec sec status would slowly rise in systems where people rat a lot, and no pod kills happen. That would force ratters to move a bit every now and then. Because the majority of nullsec is mostly quiet, the sec status would drop down slowly due to pirate faction presence. That would actually buff nullsec in terms of single pilot income, and considering that majority of normal null 'grunts' don't even have any idea about moon goo and how much isk flows through it, it wouldn't necessarily be bad thing. It would ofcourse also mean that people would have to spread their ratting, and would be more vulnerable to PVP there. And ofcourse if there's a system which has lot of ratters, and constant player brawls, the truesec would remain low for those who want to risk it (a little bit more thinking needed for this, since no-one would go rat there as there would be so much low truesec everywhere).
Highsec status would have to be affected by a number of things. Considering kills, the data is already there to see the average pilots and pod kills per last 24h, so for example Jita wouldn't lose its sec status since there's so much people there, and only that much kills. (Rough example would be avg pilots / kills = sec status change, so assume Jita 1500 pilots, and 200 kills makes 1500/200 = 7.5, compared to Uitra at the moment, 82 pilots / 285 kills = ~0.28. Should ofcourse be real averages, and numbers should be tweaked to see what are the boundaries where sec status starts to dive, or go up.)
Ofcourse one great problem would be corp POS's in hisec (standings issues) and lowsec moon mining. POS's would also be a greater problem if the sec status could dive from 0.5 to 0.4.
Just thinking about these, not necessarily a fine suggestions or anything. |

Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
If CCP is smart, the future of Sov. is reactive Sov., which changes dependign on not just shooting big hp-heavy structures, but based on ALL the activity and space infrastructure within that system. A sliding scale system of "influence control", not the current system of timers and shooting large hp-meatshields. A reactive system would encourage smaller holdings, and more active defense, and more living in the systems you own, i.e. works against afk empires and empty-but-owned systems.
That kind of system would be hard to create, but worth it in the long run health of EVE. And best of all, it could be adapted to other purposes.....like Faction Warfare low-sec Sov. and change-over-time security status of low and null-sec systems, better or worse as player action drives it.
But with that said, I don't support much change to CONCORD. Their mandate is protecting High-Sec, and that is the one section of space I'd not want to see change, for many reasons, gameplay and RP. |

Xolve
Epidemic.
127
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
I wouldn't mind seeing faction warfare actually fight to claim systems for their racial faction.. Have a something similar to the Caldari/Gallente war happen on all the border overlays with reactive Sov. There should more then definitely be a hard cap for how far a system could fall, and how quickly.. going from a 1.0/0.9 to .02 overnight would be extreme..
This would give a bit of immersion to the rise and fall of the NPC Corporations, Shifting regional factional territories and other dynamic occurances in High Sec. Make factions mean something other then 'Oooh Jump Clones and Loyalty points'; give the Amarr/Minmatar RP Tools something to actually fight about.
A little fine tuning and this could be an amazing thing for the game itself. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe Band of Abos
43
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 23:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
I think a dynamic sec status would be better... my idea would not change high, low or null into different sec but just change the exact number based on activity
Basicly all high sec systems would increase in sec status based on average people in system and pve done (decreasing the value but also making it more safe) if a system is not being used the sec status will drop down over time
High sec system will only vary from 0.5-1 Low sec system only vary from 0.1-0.4
Null sec will be different since there is on concord and the player is their own police
The higher the pve and average players in system the worse the true sec... will the less presence the better true sec... again, dynamic over time
So a heavy ratted system will slowly become a 0.0 system, and a empty system will slowly become a -1.0
I think the change from one side to the other should take about a month, but the plus side is complete empty worthless regions will slowly become more valuable while others slowly become worth less
All this in 0.0 will give a nice dynamic incentive to moving around a little more. Spread out more and such
Roleplaying wise... you could say It's because the players are driving out the rats slowly, and they are taking foothold els were... |

Xolve
Epidemic.
129
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 00:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:I think a dynamic sec status would be better... my idea would not change high, low or null into different sec but just change the exact number based on activity
Basicly all high sec systems would increase in sec status based on average people in system and pve done (decreasing the value but also making it more safe) if a system is not being used the sec status will drop down over time
High sec system will only vary from 0.5-1 Low sec system only vary from 0.1-0.4
Null sec will be same principal
The higher the pve and average players in system the worse the true sec... will the less presence the better true sec... again, dynamic over time
So a heavy ratted system will slowly become a 0.0 system, and a empty system will slowly become a -1.0
I think the change from one side to the other should take about a month, but the plus side is complete empty worthless regions will slowly become more valuable while others slowly become worth less
All this in 0.0 will give a nice dynamic incentive to moving around a little more. Spread out more and such
Roleplaying wise... you could say It's because the players are driving out the rats slowly, and they are taking foothold els were...
Essentially what I was going for, but much better wording.
Low-Sec would need a bit of a buff on the lower end to rats and what not, having the local rats jumbled about a bit wouldn't take to much of a stretch, but giving players a reason to go after it however would be great. Give low sec random duration static plexes (on everyone's overview), fixing gate guns to do damage based on ship type (make smaller then BC possible), combine the local residency's mean sec status average to the shifting of the system sec (a system full of pirates should send a system's sec plummeting)... so many possibilities..
Reactive Sov would be amazing..
Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
153
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 00:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
You guys really don't see where incentivising alliances to make large tracts of dead space is gonna lead? |

Ankh
Angel Constellation
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 10:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:hullo Ankhamasenkpth
how are things in holland and how is the pirate bay party doing
Wrong on all counts... there's quite a few Ankh~'s in the game, I'm not the ~numpty one.
English, not Dutch. Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Eyup Mi'duck
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 10:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Malcom Dax wrote:Interesting idea. But many people would rage.
Ohhh yes. Please! The game is far too static atm.
Maybe CONCORD could pilot this idea in a small area, see what happens. I am me.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á I am not you.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áI am happy with this situation. |

Farethria
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 17:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:You guys really don't see where incentivising alliances to make large tracts of dead space is gonna lead?
If access to null sec isn't impossible, and the space itself has a very porous border, then I expect them to have to run patrols constantly to keep the area from being trespassed. They have the numbers, they can do it, and frankly I think they should be compelled to do so to hold large areas. However getting off their butt, and neglecting their fat rat kills will probably lead to a lot of whining. |

Xolve
Epidemic.
132
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 17:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
I still think its a great idea, and further pushes the envelope on the game being 'by the players, for the players'.
Reactive Sov could lead to fixing other areas of low interest (i.e. Low Sec, FW) and would encourage more small gang pvp, more roaming, more time in ships, less in stations... and in general causes the players in those areas to visit the out of the way places and what not.
More player movement is definitely a good thing. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
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Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
111
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 17:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ankh wrote:Bumblefck wrote:hullo Ankhamasenkpth
how are things in holland and how is the pirate bay party doing Wrong on all counts... there's quite a few Ankh~'s in the game, I'm not the ~numpty one. English, not Dutch. Well your idea certainly is as terrible as hers where |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
221
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 18:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
sec status should be dynamic
and based upon how many 'npc's were killed
heh... say goodbye to nulsec :p |

Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 18:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
What an actual change in geo political maps that reacts to players actions!
My god that would be cool.
CCP i'll do the data entry if it makes it happen. |

Xolve
Epidemic.
132
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 18:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:sec status should be dynamic
and based upon how many 'npc's were killed
heh... say goodbye to nulsec :p
System class should stay relatively stable, Highsec staying High, Lowsec Staying Low, and Null staying Null in most instances.
The swap from .5 -> .4 or .1 to -0.01 or vice versa should happen after a concentrated series of incidents, suicide ganks, pod kills, and ratting/mission running can all affect this. Even undealt with Incursions could potentially lower system security ratings. The Null to Low swap should only happen in a system with no Sov Structures present, and has been unclaimed for some time.
My main interest in reactive sov is that it would create a more mobile playerbase, with people traveling to get to the good systems, and possibly people defending/locking down the good systems, for their alliance or corp. Regardless of Hi/Low/Null this unlocks a variety of play style options, gives PvP and PvE players something to do, creates more oppurtunities for services (Exploration, Mercs, Transporting/Freight) and will remove the 'Jita is the center of New Eden' mentality.
If nothing else it would create a bit more immersion, and generally satisfy everyone.
Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
|

yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 19:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Why should concord go protect some punk a$$ sov holders in null-sec? |

Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor
37
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Move to F&I please.
And +1 for elastic concord boarders! "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976 |

Long John Silver
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 23:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
I like this idea.
Some consequences need to be thought through eg: changing sec status and POS's , capital ships based in systems that change to hi-sec and busy moon goo places, but the idea of an evolving security pattern sounds great.
Maybe keep the total number of hi-, low- and null-sec systems about the same, but let the distribution move about a bit to reflect changing player patterns.
Long John Silver | Pirate Alt-áand Forum Troll. |

Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 00:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
I think Null should stay null unless you introduce something like incursions where say, the amarr Empire decides to annex your **** due to the success of your alliance. Concord's mandate is the protection of the Empire space holdings, not nullsec.
For concord to get involved you have to have negotiated the police/peacekeeper deal with concord. This isn't for players.
But Nullsec should remain nullsec.
Any nullsec system annexed by an empire faction should have the ability for a player corp/alliance to assault and retake/conquer the system. And as a counterpoint there should be a peppering of lowsec systems in the empires flagged as conquerable by player corps... Perfect for a corp that wants to go to war every week and have "rats" that are incursions by the empire that lost the space rather than the standard drone/gurista/sansha/shootmenow/etc.
The only "security status" shifting should be wholly contained inside space claimed by the big four, to include things like the ammatar or khanid.
Nullsec should never become 1.0 space.
Just because you don't like nullsec doesn't mean the playstyles of (god help me) the Goonswarm should be invalidated.
There must always be capturable territory
And there should never be any way to manipulate the map to remove nullsec and make the entire EVE space carebear friendly.
But some sovereignty fluidity would be nice. |

Farethria
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 19:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
I don't think 'some' fluidity is worth much. If this is to be far reaching it has to be a LOT of fluidity. As for the Goon's playstyle, that's up to them, but I'd bet they and the other large alliances would adapt fine and still be the powers that they are today.
There's a lot of ways to approach this most of which appear in this thread. I'm more of the 'let's make Jita nulsec and see what happens' type. I think to go from 1.0 to 0.0 should take time each way - months and maybe a year for the extreme moves. |

Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
69
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 13:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
I like and have suggested before the idea of empire incursions into null, it would be more characterful and could have the rewards that nullbears have been asking for, also they would be null only which would also give them some exclusivity. |

Arbiter Reformed
Saiph Industries SRS.
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 15:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
although i think they need to redraw the map i dont think it need to be done this way
civilisations have always had borders and low and null represent this
im not particularly sure what i think the change should be, more highsec routes or less.. i lean on the side of all state lines being occupied by npc null in the case of enemies and low in the case of freinds but with longer routes through say ammatar to get from minmitar to amarr
anyway
i was disapoint that the sansha invasion hasnt changed the map |

Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 17:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
I think I'd do it like this. Introduce concorde in all systems (don't freak out, finish reading), but make concorde killable. The lower the security status, the fewer and weaker the concorde are. So, maybe in a 1.0 system the concorde are very near to their current strength. Just weaken them enough that they are barely killable by an extremely well coordinated and large fleet and where that fleet will take substantial losses and take a very long time to kill a single concorde ship. Maybe with 200 concorde battleships per system for 1.0 or something. Then maybe in a -0.7 system you just get a couple of frigates that can be killed by your typical ratting ship. Once the concorde is killed, it's gone until down time when it respawns. Maybe no concorde in a -1.0 system.
Then tie the security status to concorde kills and average players in the system. More players in the system on average nudges the security status up, killing concorde ships nudges it down. You'd probably want to make the impact of the number of players scale with security status. For example, maybe a -0.9 system would move up if there were an average of 5 players in the system, where it would take an average of 200 players to nudge a 0.9 system up to 1.0. Something like that to keep it meaningful across the whole spectrum. Maybe limit it so that no system can move more than 0.1 in either direction per month.
I think it would add some interesting dynamics. Alliances could declare war on hi sec systems and with a heavy sustained campaign they could eventually make it into a low sec or eventually even null system. Hi sec players interested in defending their space could attempt to disrupt the attacks on their concorde defenders. Conversely, null sec alliances would need to maintain their space a bit by regularly getting rid of the concorde rats that are trying to establish a foothold. If a lot of them frequently hang out in a system and don't bother clearing the concorde, it will slowly become less valuable space.
As systems drop in security status, NPC stations move to more secure, potentially newly secure, systems. Once it drops below 0.0 the NPC faction loses sovereignty and it becomes claimable, and conversely, when a system rises above 0.0 the player corporation loses sovereignty and their stations are destroyed by concorde. Except for that, there would be no hard and fast distinction between hi, low and null sec, it would be a smooth transition with less and less concorde protection the lower you go. |
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