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Rubinia Valeska
Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN
3
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Posted - 2011.12.17 12:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Flakey Foont wrote: Forgive me. Within the item pool in each type of site, the drops are random, including zero.
I think you should read up on statistics(science to interpret large data sets) and stochastics (part of mathematics dealing with random numbers or probabilities). There are quite a few things that could be learned from doing this. An estimate of a site's value, drop rate of specific items within a site, maybe even the rules that are used to determine what drops and in which quantities. |
Ooda
London Elektricity
1
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Posted - 2011.12.18 21:05:00 -
[62] - Quote
Come on..
No one will ever be able to proof a bug with exploration loot-distribution through hard evidence. It's funny to see smart and well known forum people transforming into trolls everytime somebody takes his chance to complain about.
Keep on going, free comedy everytime :D
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Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
278
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Posted - 2011.12.18 21:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ooda wrote:Come on..
No one will ever be able to proof a bug with exploration loot-distribution through hard evidence. It's funny to see smart and well known forum people transforming into trolls everytime somebody takes his chance to complain about.
Keep on going, free comedy everytime :D
So every time you hit a dry spell, run to the forums?
Also it'd be quite easy to at the very least logically assess the situation. Prices for each loot drop are pretty stable. If we see a sudden spike in certain modules, we can be sure that supply is suddenly dropping (or demand, but for arguments sake, lets say supply) thus possibly indicating a reduction in drops.
The inverse of this has already been proven true. The implementation of the Guristas DED 3/10 meant the Pithi A-type small shield booster could now drop in high sec, whereas before it was a rare drop from the final part of an escalation chain that ends in low sec (this meant finding the site, getting the initial escalation, getting full escalation to the final site, and then getting the lucky drop...lots of chances to not get the module, thus very rare). Now that its available from a single site in high sec (and pretty easy to find) supply has increased dramatically, the market has been saturated and prices have plummeted. Point being, drop increase = price decrease, drop decrease = price increase, assuming demand stays about the same.
But its easier to run to the forums and cry about doing 4 DED 4/10s and only getting overseer effects. |
Ooda
London Elektricity
1
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Posted - 2011.12.18 21:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Ooda wrote:Come on..
No one will ever be able to proof a bug with exploration loot-distribution through hard evidence. It's funny to see smart and well known forum people transforming into trolls everytime somebody takes his chance to complain about.
Keep on going, free comedy everytime :D
So every time you hit a dry spell, run to the forums?
congratz, you completely missed the point :) Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed. Helpful, but not needed.
I'm not saying this is bug or not, I just think its funny to ask for something no one will ever be able to provide ;)
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Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
279
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Posted - 2011.12.18 22:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ooda wrote: Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed.
In order for there to be a problem, yes, hard evidence is needed. Please try reading what I posted instead of being a generic moron.
But nice try on the whole white knighting thing bro. |
Ooda
London Elektricity
3
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Posted - 2011.12.19 00:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Ooda wrote: Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed.
In order for there to be a problem, yes, hard evidence is needed. Please try reading what I posted instead of being a generic moron. But nice try on the whole white knighting thing bro.
Please re-read what I wrote earlier. No player will ever be able to provide hard evidence on drop-chance related issues, unless he makes a database with every single player contributing to. Market stuff and demand/supply can be influenced by more than just drop-chance of an item. Basically, they are only assumptions which might proof true, or might not.
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Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
16
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Posted - 2011.12.19 10:03:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ooda wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Ooda wrote: Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed.
In order for there to be a problem, yes, hard evidence is needed. Please try reading what I posted instead of being a generic moron. But nice try on the whole white knighting thing bro. Please re-read what I wrote earlier. No player will ever be able to provide hard evidence on drop-chance related issues, unless he makes a database with every single player contributing to. Market stuff and demand/supply can be influenced by more than just drop-chance of an item. Basically, they are only assumptions which might proof true, or might not.
TL;DR: You dismissively say "these are only assumptions." - there are tried and tested tools in statistics, probability and economics for testing these types of assumptions that do not require perfect knowledge
The lack of understanding of what should be basic maths on this thread is quite horrifying in places. It seems from reading this thread that players of other MMOs that we all look down on can understand what drop tables are and also reverse engineer them.
So just to look at what you are saying:
you are suggesting that the *only* way to provide evidence is a *massive* sample size - presumably of millions of drops?
while that would provide nice data it actually isn't necessary.
The concept of "sampling" allows us to work out trends and patterns without looking at *all* of the data.
If the OP had come with a sample size of a few hundred, there *might* be something to look at, a 1000 odd - they would probably be taken seriously causing others to start making records.
The techniques behind this are all well understood - read a book on statistics.
if I had my way an understanding of probability and statistics would be as essential as reading and writing in school.
You do realise that you hear about stats and probability every single day from politicians, lobbying groups and the media? If you don't understand them then these people are simply able to bullshit you (and they do try hard, fortunately not all the populace are ignorant of how it works)
And what is more the markets are an extremely effective tool for understanding a macro picture of what is going on. These dropped objects are in demand by people who build ships and modules, these modules have a *roughly* constant level of demand. What is more this demand is spread across many dropped objects because people build many different things. Yes there will be noise in the picture and yes there will be some variation. But again as a rule of thumb it is most likely the first place you would be able to see that there is some sort of problem that needs looking at more closely. |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2011.12.19 15:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
I had my best radar site day in two years yesterday....100m in two hours.
So if there was a change I like it. |
Zenedia
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
I've gone for a while in WHs having my RADAR cans be totally empty. Other times I would run 2 and get fistfuls of Caldari crypters. Your sample of 4 is so pathetically small that you are either a fantastic troll, in which case I give you a 3/10 since I replied, or you are ignorant about your "statistics won't change" based on a sample size of 4.
You do understand that statistics are a way to trend a set of data that by it's very nature CANNOT be trended by picking a representative sample and examining the results? Your sample of 4, in the grand scheme of EVERY POSSIBLE RADAR site in the game that has been done to date, is beyond worthless to determine any sort of trend.
TL:DR -All hail the RNGod. Run 20X your "sample" size then talk about trends and things being broken. |
Amelia Shortcake
The Right Hand of Beadle
3
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Posted - 2011.12.19 20:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
Earth Keeper wrote:4 was enough.
Do you play EVE like you live your life? How is welfare treating you?
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Miss President
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
21
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Posted - 2012.01.03 04:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
after running lots and lots of radar sites in a couple of years, today I ran my first radar after the new expansion, this site dropped 0 dycriptors, and about 16 datacores, other items were worthless components for interfaces that didn't fit into the ship's cargo.
never had this before, even in 0.0. Don't give me exploration is based on chance crap, radar and mag always guaranteed a minimum income.
What happened CCP?
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Ryuce
18
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Posted - 2012.01.03 08:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
Miss President wrote:after running lots and lots of radar sites in a couple of years, today I ran my first radar after the new expansion, this site dropped 0 dycriptors, and about 16 datacores, other items were worthless components for interfaces that didn't fit into the ship's cargo.
never had this before, even in 0.0. Don't give me exploration is based on chance crap, radar and mag always guaranteed a minimum income.
What happened CCP?
0/10 |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
399
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
Miss President wrote:after running lots and lots of radar sites in a couple of years, today I ran my first radar after the new expansion, this site dropped 0 dycriptors, and about 16 datacores, other items were worthless components for interfaces that didn't fit into the ship's cargo.
never had this before, even in 0.0. Don't give me exploration is based on chance crap, radar and mag always guaranteed a minimum income.
What happened CCP?
Bad troll.
Make your own thread next time. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
124
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
I love when the words "guaranteed" and "minimum" come up in reference to a random table with "nothing" as an option. But by all means people, quit exploring, it's both unprofitable and most likely a sin. |
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
166
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Posted - 2012.01.03 19:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
Making obligatory appearance in an 'exploration is broken' thread.
I'm not actually sure If I've appeared before or not, as bad necro is bad and I don't feel like checking.
Also, if loot isn't dropping for you, you aren't rubbing your lucky charm correctly, and need more practice. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'. |
SexTrader
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2012.01.03 20:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Kilrayn wrote:Also, if loot isn't dropping for you, you aren't rubbing your lucky charm correctly, and need more practice.
Lets try to keep our 'privates' out of this conversation, shall we?
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CeneUJiti
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.01.03 22:07:00 -
[77] - Quote
Had some luck and just wondering how much of it.
Whats a average loot of a Serpentsi 5/10 and what is "sweet" and what is "jawdrop"? |
Kara Books
Hedion University Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2012.01.05 21:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
Earth Keeper wrote:After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic and 3/4 of cans were totally empty . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch..
Iv heard the same subject pop up atleast every 2 days, before the patch, long before. the same answer to them all was "Chances" its all about random chances.
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Banible
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.01.07 14:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game...
Cheers QQers
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Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
172
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Posted - 2012.01.07 16:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
Banible wrote:Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game...
Cheers QQers
Take your baseless and moronic assertions elsewhere.
Cheers. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'. |
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XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
74
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Posted - 2012.01.07 16:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Banible wrote:Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game...
Cheers QQers
So was it a traumatic incident that caused the brain damage resulting in your stupidity or were you just born that way? |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
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Posted - 2012.01.07 16:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Banible wrote:Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game...
Cheers QQers
So was it a traumatic incident that caused the brain damage resulting in your stupidity or were you just born that way?
God I hate that avatar Sal.....
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Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
172
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Posted - 2012.01.07 16:44:00 -
[83] - Quote
Flakey Foont wrote:XXSketchxx wrote:Banible wrote:Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game...
Cheers QQers
So was it a traumatic incident that caused the brain damage resulting in your stupidity or were you just born that way? God I hate that avatar Sal..... I'd assume Sal's banned atm. Only logical explination. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'. |
Heun zero
Aegis Evolution Soldiers 0f Fortune
31
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Posted - 2012.01.07 17:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Sir Livingston wrote:
nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff...who cares what they did. Adapt and survive.
Hopefully Darwinism will take care of the OP...
we can give him the darwin award when he reprocesses his char |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
74
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Posted - 2012.01.07 17:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
I look hott, don't hate.
As for Sal, he's on a much needed vacation in the Caymans. Dont worry he will be back in due time and in the meantime I will be providing mission and complexes with the support it needs. |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2012.01.07 17:29:00 -
[86] - Quote
Am I doing this right?
/me looks at his Cheetah and sees nothing drop out of it.
/me runs to the forums.
WTF CCP? Exploration is fubared!!111!
I have not gone on a good exploration run in quite some time. But when I did, I always went with the mindset that any sites found will be barren and empty of goods. Especially after CCP made exploration much easier than the old way of setting probes per planet and scanning from there. Perhaps I should dust off the old Cheetah and see what is lying around (besides barren and empty containers). |
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