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Earth Keeper
NeoCorp Bloodbound.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic and 3/4 of cans were totally empty . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch.. |

Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
182
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Come back when you've done them 40 times? quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Earth Keeper
NeoCorp Bloodbound.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not even going to do them 40 times, 4 was enough, statistics wouldn't change, as see no reason for wasting my time on opening 3/4 of empty cans. Is like another failure from CCP like "customs office giving away to NC corp" instead of reassigning them to system owning corporation by claim. |

Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
182
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Earth Keeper wrote:Not even going to do them 40 times, 4 was enough, statistics wouldn't change, as see no reason for wasting my time on opening 3/4 of empty cans. Is like another failure from CCP like "customs office giving away to NC corp" instead of reassigning them to system owning corporation by claim.
That would be too easy, now wouldn't it?  What do you think lowsec and wormhole residents would say to that? quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|

Earth Keeper
NeoCorp Bloodbound.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Few good advises in this case: "If you have no idea how it's made better leave as it is" "The best is the enemy of good" |

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
181
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP said they improved drop rates on low and nullsec Magnetometric sites (the ones that use Analyzer and Salvager modules). They didn't mention anything about changing Radar (Codebreaker) sites.
Radar sites dropping crap loot or even no loot at all in all their cans happens, that's how it goes. Sometimes you strike it lucky, sometimes you don't. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
257
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 12:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Earth Keeper wrote:After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic  and 3/4 of cans were totally empty  . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch..
Quote: Not even going to do them 40 times, 4 was enough, statistics wouldn't change, as see no reason for wasting my time on opening 3/4 of empty cans. Is like another failure from CCP like "customs office giving away to NC corp" instead of reassigning them to system owning corporation by claim.
Site sample size: 1
Can sample size: 4
Sounds legit  |

Chocolate Roll
Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
I do a lot of low and null sec exploration. I do keep records of my findings, and have for the last 4 months.
Since Crucible was released, I have completed 97 low sec radar sites. I have experienced a general downturn in profit, but then, like the guys above me correctly pointed out, how big a sample do we need to prove it? Much bigger than the data I have available to me.
Sometimes I'll go 2 or 3 days where every box is empty, other days I'll make 100mil a site. Luck of the draw.
If the odds are proving to be too unreliable for you, stop doing them and find something better :) |

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
181
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 13:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Plus, not only would you need a ridiculously large sample size, you'd need to have data from everyone running the sites, not just yourself before you can say exploration is broken :P |

Sir Livingston
Viziam Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 15:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Earth Keeper wrote:After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic  and 3/4 of cans were totally empty  . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch..
nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff...who cares what they did. Adapt and survive.
Explorer's Log an ongoing video log library chronicling my adventures as an explorer of New Eden Click to watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/JonnyPew?feature=mhee |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir Livingston wrote:
nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff...who cares what they did. Adapt and survive.
Hopefully Darwinism will take care of the OP... |

Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
84
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Plus, not only would you need a ridiculously large sample size, you'd need to have data from everyone running the sites, not just yourself before you can say exploration is broken :P I cannot scan space while playing Skyrim. This is evidence enough that exploration is clearly broken. 
Also OP, please contract me your useless probes. I lose at least 10-15 a week.  In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'. |

mxzf
Shovel Bros
251
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 16:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
ITT: OP flipped a coin twice, it came up tails both times, the coin is clearly rigged. |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
233
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Posted - 2011.12.15 00:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP.
I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion.
Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot.
This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm.
|

Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
0
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Posted - 2011.12.15 00:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Saying you should go do something else with your time is a hugely insensitive thing to say about exploring. True, you can get a casual exploring ship and basic skills for high sec sites inside of a week. But most people who are serious explorers have devoted 4-8 months *Just* for the specialized scanning ships and scanning skills.
Yes, people in marauders and T3 cruises have more time invested, but these are skills you can constantly use to mission with and earn back ISK while you are learning them in safe space. Exploration skills and scanning-focused ships offer very little payoff until you put a massive number of points into them, and even then only pay off when you take them into significantly riskier territories, unlike high sec missions.
In my opinion that is a huge investment to just give up on and "go do something else". I've been hit by the various exploration glitches where everybody kept saying I was crazy because sites weren't spawning, and a month later CCP will confirm there's an issue and I've wasted the last month bothering to explore. I am not so quick to blame the original poster and too would like to see more data before everybody jumps to conclusions. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 03:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP.
I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion.
Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot.
This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm.
Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character white knighting them...And try reading the op. He didn't do 10, he did 4, with 3 out of 4 cans being empty. Pretty standard. Additionally, its not on us to contradict the OP. Its on the OP to provide substantial evidence that there might be an issue for us to take him seriously and consider the possibility that there is something wrong. None of us want exploration to be broken. Thus, if there is a serious and evident problem, we will address it. Unfortunately, most of the time its people like the op with evidence like 3 out 4 cans in 1 site. You really think thats valid reason to come to the forums complaining about a possible nerf?
Also, lol at your anecdotal "1/3" post patch and "2/3" pre patch observations. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
258
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 03:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gianath wrote:I've been hit by the various exploration glitches where everybody kept saying I was crazy because sites weren't spawning, and a month later CCP will confirm there's an issue and I've wasted the last month bothering to explore.
In the past 2 years I have been exploring, every patch people have complained about drop/site spawn nerfs. The "glitch" you are referring to literally happened 1 of those times, CCP acknowledged it and fixed it.
|

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
183
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Posted - 2011.12.15 05:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP.
I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion.
Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot.
This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm.
I'd like to respectfully disagree: if I look at my records (yes I keep track of how much loot I get from sites), I've had times when I've gotten an average of 7m per site from 10 consecutive Radars, followed by an average of 16m per site from the next 10 immediately after. There's just too much deviation per site to use such a small sample size  |

Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
5
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Posted - 2011.12.15 06:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
ITT: People not understanding basic math.
4, even 10 sites is not going to be enough to prove ****. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2061
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 06:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP. That's because the OP never provides any proof himself GÇö just a completely insignificant sample that tells us exactly nothing.
The sarcasm comes from the fact that this abject failure to understand even the basics of random distribution keeps showing up, no matter how often people explain it. It's particularly warranted in this case since the OP comes back and explains that he has no interest in understanding the issue and thus refuses to provide any proof to actually support his silly claim. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Powie XIII
Pilipino Corp ROMANIAN-LEGION
2
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Posted - 2011.12.15 09:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just quit exploring and go back to missions where rewards are more consistent. Less competition for me. You don't deserve the loot if you don't work hard for it.
In short, just quit already. GÇ£They see me trollin', they hatin'GÇ¥ |

Sul Glass
Iron Crown
0
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Posted - 2011.12.15 09:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
I support/endorse the services offered in the above reply.
Sul |

VIP Ares
BALKAN EXPRESS
2
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Posted - 2011.12.15 09:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Four sites is really not enough to make such conclusion. Sorry. |

FlameGlow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2011.12.15 10:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Magnetos are a definite improvement though, finally T2 salvage drops not 1-2 pieces per site To boost radars CCP need to do only one thing really - make the interfaces a consumable in invention(to last maybe 100 invention runs or so), instead of one-time purchase. |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
233
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 11:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP.
I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion.
Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot.
This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm.
Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character white knighting them...And try reading the op. He didn't do 10, he did 4, with 3 out of 4 cans being empty. Pretty standard. Additionally, its not on us to contradict the OP. Its on the OP to provide substantial evidence that there might be an issue for us to take him seriously and consider the possibility that there is something wrong. None of us want exploration to be broken. Thus, if there is a serious and evident problem, we will address it. Unfortunately, most of the time its people like the op with evidence like 3 out 4 cans in 1 site. You really think thats valid reason to come to the forums complaining about a possible nerf? Also, lol at your anecdotal "1/3" post patch and "2/3" pre patch observations.
Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character troll posting them... And try actually reading the reply, I never said he did 10 sites. Additionally, 3 out of 4 cans being empty in a Radar site may be the standard now, but it surely wasn't that way before the expansion. Besides that, you have said many times that you don't bother with Radar sites so it's not on you to contradict others when you have no substantial evidence to prove otherwise.
As for my saying that only 1/3rd of cans contain loot, that's an average estimation due to checking 15 cans and only 5 contained loot. That equals to 1/3rd.
Tippia wrote:That's because the OP never provides any proof himself GÇö just a completely insignificant sample that tells us exactly nothing.
The sarcasm comes from the fact that this abject failure to understand even the basics of random distribution keeps showing up, no matter how often people explain it. It's particularly warranted in this case since the OP comes back and explains that he has no interest in understanding the issue and thus refuses to provide any proof to actually support his silly claim.
What's silly is people saying they know for a fact that CCP hasn't reduced the amount of cans containing loot and rationalize it with the pretense of random distribution 'working as intended' when there's actually a noticeable decline.
Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is?
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2064
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 11:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character troll posting them correcting... That's not funny GÇö it's just logical. People who understand probability and statistics try to explain it to those who don't.
Quote:What's silly is people saying they know for a fact that CCP hasn't reduced the amount of cans containing loot and rationalize it with the pretense of random distribution 'working as intended' when there's actually a noticeable decline. Good thing that no-one is doing that then (neither saying that it's GÇ£working as intendedGÇ¥, nor showing that there is a noticable decline). That leaves the OP's failure at basic statistics GÇö and those defending it GÇö as the only silliness in this thread.
Quote:Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is? How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
233
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 11:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nice of you to post all that other nonsense while sidestepping the most important question.
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is?
Obviously your answer shows you have no idea.
Tippia wrote:How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch?
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2064
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 12:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nice of you to post all that other nonsense while sidestepping the most important question. So you have no data, I take it? Or maybe you just didn't want your GÇ£questionGÇ¥ answered?
How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch?
If you can't answer those, then we'll go for the standard n GÇö 2,000. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Rubinia Valeska
Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN
0
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Posted - 2011.12.15 14:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dont listen to Tippia. Radar sites are useless now, do not do them, just filter them out. See it as positive thing, you gain a mid slot.
hf
RV out |

Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
27
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 15:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
As mentioned by numerous others your handful of sites can't be considered proof of a nerf.
If it helps at all I've run about two dozen since Crucible dropped and I've cleared over 100 mil. I still get the occasional empty can or 2 but I'm still getting my usual loot drops to. So just keep at it.
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