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Radar sites were nerfed after patch, Why?

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Earth Keeper NeoCorp Bloodbound. 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:55:00 - [1] - Quote After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic and 3/4 of cans were totally empty . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch..
Ammzi Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance 182	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:57:00 - [2] - Quote Come back when you've done them 40 times? quote CCP Spitfire "Hello Im Blue,"
Earth Keeper NeoCorp Bloodbound. 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:01:00 - [3] - Quote Not even going to do them 40 times, 4 was enough, statistics wouldn't change, as see no reason for wasting my time on opening 3/4 of empty cans. Is like another failure from CCP like "customs office giving away to NC corp" instead of reassigning them to system owning corporation by claim.
Ammzi Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance 182	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:05:00 - [4] - Quote Earth Keeper wrote: Not even going to do them 40 times, 4 was enough, statistics wouldn't change, as see no reason for wasting my time on opening 3/4 of empty cans. Is like another failure from CCP like "customs office giving away to NC corp" instead of reassigning them to system owning corporation by claim. That would be too easy, now wouldn't it? What do you think lowsec and wormhole residents would say to that? quote CCP Spitfire "Hello Im Blue,"
Earth Keeper NeoCorp Bloodbound. 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:10:00 - [5] - Quote Few good advises in this case: "If you have no idea how it's made better leave as it is" "The best is the enemy of good"
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:32:00 - [6] - Quote CCP said they improved drop rates on low and nullsec Magnetometric sites (the ones that use Analyzer and Salvager modules). They didn't mention anything about changing Radar (Codebreaker) sites. Radar sites dropping crap loot or even no loot at all in all their cans happens, that's how it goes. Sometimes you strike it lucky, sometimes you don't.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 257	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:41:00 - [7] - Quote Earth Keeper wrote: After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic and 3/4 of cans were totally empty . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch.. Quote: Not even going to do them 40 times, 4 was enough, statistics wouldn't change, as see no reason for wasting my time on opening 3/4 of empty cans. Is like another failure from CCP like "customs office giving away to NC corp" instead of reassigning them to system owning corporation by claim. Site sample size: 1 Can sample size: 4 Sounds legit
Chocolate Roll Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS. 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:59:00 - [8] - Quote I do a lot of low and null sec exploration. I do keep records of my findings, and have for the last 4 months. Since Crucible was released, I have completed 97 low sec radar sites. I have experienced a general downturn in profit, but then, like the guys above me correctly pointed out, how big a sample do we need to prove it? Much bigger than the data I have available to me. Sometimes I'll go 2 or 3 days where every box is empty, other days I'll make 100mil a site. Luck of the draw. If the odds are proving to be too unreliable for you, stop doing them and find something better :)
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2011.12.14 13:13:00 - [9] - Quote Plus, not only would you need a ridiculously large sample size, you'd need to have data from everyone running the sites, not just yourself before you can say exploration is broken :P
Sir Livingston Viziam Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2011.12.14 15:55:00 - [10] - Quote Earth Keeper wrote: After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic and 3/4 of cans were totally empty . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch.. nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff...who cares what they did. Adapt and survive. Explorer's Log an ongoing video log library chronicling my adventures as an explorer of New Eden Click to watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/JonnyPew?feature=mhee
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2011.12.14 16:29:00 - [11] - Quote Sir Livingston wrote: nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff...who cares what they did. Adapt and survive. Hopefully Darwinism will take care of the OP...
Kilrayn Caldari Provisions 84	Posted - 2011.12.14 16:33:00 - [12] - Quote St Mio wrote: Plus, not only would you need a ridiculously large sample size, you'd need to have data from everyone running the sites, not just yourself before you can say exploration is broken :P I cannot scan space while playing Skyrim. This is evidence enough that exploration is clearly broken. Also OP, please contract me your useless probes. I lose at least 10-15 a week. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'.
mxzf Shovel Bros 251	Posted - 2011.12.14 16:48:00 - [13] - Quote ITT: OP flipped a coin twice, it came up tails both times, the coin is clearly rigged.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 233	Posted - 2011.12.15 00:05:00 - [14] - Quote Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP. I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion. Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot. This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm.
Gianath Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 00:26:00 - [15] - Quote Saying you should go do something else with your time is a hugely insensitive thing to say about exploring. True, you can get a casual exploring ship and basic skills for high sec sites inside of a week. But most people who are serious explorers have devoted 4-8 months Just for the specialized scanning ships and scanning skills. Yes, people in marauders and T3 cruises have more time invested, but these are skills you can constantly use to mission with and earn back ISK while you are learning them in safe space. Exploration skills and scanning-focused ships offer very little payoff until you put a massive number of points into them, and even then only pay off when you take them into significantly riskier territories, unlike high sec missions. In my opinion that is a huge investment to just give up on and "go do something else". I've been hit by the various exploration glitches where everybody kept saying I was crazy because sites weren't spawning, and a month later CCP will confirm there's an issue and I've wasted the last month bothering to explore. I am not so quick to blame the original poster and too would like to see more data before everybody jumps to conclusions.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2011.12.15 03:26:00 - [16] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP. I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion. Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot. This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm. Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character white knighting them...And try reading the op. He didn't do 10, he did 4, with 3 out of 4 cans being empty. Pretty standard. Additionally, its not on us to contradict the OP. Its on the OP to provide substantial evidence that there might be an issue for us to take him seriously and consider the possibility that there is something wrong. None of us want exploration to be broken. Thus, if there is a serious and evident problem, we will address it. Unfortunately, most of the time its people like the op with evidence like 3 out 4 cans in 1 site. You really think thats valid reason to come to the forums complaining about a possible nerf? Also, lol at your anecdotal "1/3" post patch and "2/3" pre patch observations.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2011.12.15 03:28:00 - [17] - Quote Gianath wrote: I've been hit by the various exploration glitches where everybody kept saying I was crazy because sites weren't spawning, and a month later CCP will confirm there's an issue and I've wasted the last month bothering to explore. In the past 2 years I have been exploring, every patch people have complained about drop/site spawn nerfs. The "glitch" you are referring to literally happened 1 of those times, CCP acknowledged it and fixed it.
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 183	Posted - 2011.12.15 05:39:00 - [18] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP. I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion. Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot. This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm. I'd like to respectfully disagree: if I look at my records (yes I keep track of how much loot I get from sites), I've had times when I've gotten an average of 7m per site from 10 consecutive Radars, followed by an average of 16m per site from the next 10 immediately after. There's just too much deviation per site to use such a small sample size
Michael Harari The Hatchery Team Liquid 5	Posted - 2011.12.15 06:25:00 - [19] - Quote ITT: People not understanding basic math. 4, even 10 sites is not going to be enough to prove ****.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2061	Posted - 2011.12.15 06:35:00 - [20] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP. That's because the OP never provides any proof himself GÇö just a completely insignificant sample that tells us exactly nothing. The sarcasm comes from the fact that this abject failure to understand even the basics of random distribution keeps showing up, no matter how often people explain it. It's particularly warranted in this case since the OP comes back and explains that he has no interest in understanding the issue and thus refuses to provide any proof to actually support his silly claim. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Powie XIII Pilipino Corp ROMANIAN-LEGION 2	Posted - 2011.12.15 09:12:00 - [21] - Quote Just quit exploring and go back to missions where rewards are more consistent. Less competition for me. You don't deserve the loot if you don't work hard for it. In short, just quit already. GÇ£They see me trollin', they hatin'GÇ¥
Sul Glass Iron Crown 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 09:37:00 - [22] - Quote I support/endorse the services offered in the above reply. Sul
VIP Ares BALKAN EXPRESS 2	Posted - 2011.12.15 09:51:00 - [23] - Quote Four sites is really not enough to make such conclusion. Sorry.
FlameGlow GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2011.12.15 10:28:00 - [24] - Quote Magnetos are a definite improvement though, finally T2 salvage drops not 1-2 pieces per site To boost radars CCP need to do only one thing really - make the interfaces a consumable in invention(to last maybe 100 invention runs or so), instead of one-time purchase.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 233	Posted - 2011.12.15 11:03:00 - [25] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, it's always the same few characters posting negative sarcastic replies with no proof to contradict the claims of the OP. I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion. Since the expansion there is indeed a big difference in the amount of loot gained and the amount of cans holding loot in the Radar sites.. Basically it's now about 1/3rd that has loot whereas before the expansion it was about 2/3rds that would have loot. This is something that's easily noticed and doesn't require completing 1000's of sites to confirm. Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character white knighting them...And try reading the op. He didn't do 10, he did 4, with 3 out of 4 cans being empty. Pretty standard. Additionally, its not on us to contradict the OP. Its on the OP to provide substantial evidence that there might be an issue for us to take him seriously and consider the possibility that there is something wrong. None of us want exploration to be broken. Thus, if there is a serious and evident problem, we will address it. Unfortunately, most of the time its people like the op with evidence like 3 out 4 cans in 1 site. You really think thats valid reason to come to the forums complaining about a possible nerf? Also, lol at your anecdotal "1/3" post patch and "2/3" pre patch observations. Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character troll posting them... And try actually reading the reply, I never said he did 10 sites. Additionally, 3 out of 4 cans being empty in a Radar site may be the standard now, but it surely wasn't that way before the expansion. Besides that, you have said many times that you don't bother with Radar sites so it's not on you to contradict others when you have no substantial evidence to prove otherwise. As for my saying that only 1/3rd of cans contain loot, that's an average estimation due to checking 15 cans and only 5 contained loot. That equals to 1/3rd. Tippia wrote: That's because the OP never provides any proof himself GÇö just a completely insignificant sample that tells us exactly nothing. The sarcasm comes from the fact that this abject failure to understand even the basics of random distribution keeps showing up, no matter how often people explain it. It's particularly warranted in this case since the OP comes back and explains that he has no interest in understanding the issue and thus refuses to provide any proof to actually support his silly claim. What's silly is people saying they know for a fact that CCP hasn't reduced the amount of cans containing loot and rationalize it with the pretense of random distribution 'working as intended' when there's actually a noticeable decline. Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2064	Posted - 2011.12.15 11:24:00 - [26] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Funny how whenever someone posts a thread like this, its always the same character ~~troll posting them~~ correcting... That's not funny GÇö it's just logical. People who understand probability and statistics try to explain it to those who don't. Quote: What's silly is people saying they know for a fact that CCP hasn't reduced the amount of cans containing loot and rationalize it with the pretense of random distribution 'working as intended' when there's actually a noticeable decline. Good thing that no-one is doing that then (neither saying that it's GÇ£working as intendedGÇ¥, nor showing that there is a noticable decline). That leaves the OP's failure at basic statistics GÇö and those defending it GÇö as the only silliness in this thread. Quote: Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is? How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 233	Posted - 2011.12.15 11:57:00 - [27] - Quote Nice of you to post all that other nonsense while sidestepping the most important question. DeMichael Crimson wrote: Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is? Obviously your answer shows you have no idea. Tippia wrote: How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2064	Posted - 2011.12.15 12:08:00 - [28] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Nice of you to post all that other nonsense while sidestepping the most important question. So you have no data, I take it? Or maybe you just didn't want your GÇ£questionGÇ¥ answered? How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch? If you can't answer those, then we'll go for the standard n GÇö 2,000. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Rubinia Valeska Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 14:11:00 - [29] - Quote Dont listen to Tippia. Radar sites are useless now, do not do them, just filter them out. See it as positive thing, you gain a mid slot. hf RV out
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 27	Posted - 2011.12.15 15:02:00 - [30] - Quote As mentioned by numerous others your handful of sites can't be considered proof of a nerf. If it helps at all I've run about two dozen since Crucible dropped and I've cleared over 100 mil. I still get the occasional empty can or 2 but I'm still getting my usual loot drops to. So just keep at it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2066	Posted - 2011.12.15 15:25:00 - [31] - Quote Rubinia Valeska wrote: Dont listen to Tippia. Radar sites are useless now, do not do them, just filter them out. See it as positive thing, you gain a mid slot. Yes. Listen to this manGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Plyn the recon inc KRYSIS. 7	Posted - 2011.12.15 16:43:00 - [32] - Quote Or people could just work together. The OP's statement isn't a conclusion, it's a hypothesis. How about.... Instead of flaming each other when NEITHER side has enough evidence, you combine your evidence and create a result. Every time you run a radar site for the next however long, post the truesec of the system you were in, the number of cans that had stuff, the number of cans that didn't have stuff, and the approximate value of the loot. You can even use alts if you're worried about people knowing your habits. In under a week's time you will have thousands of records from all different areas, and THEN you guys can start arguing about what the numbers mean. Come2Nullsec
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard 403	Posted - 2011.12.15 17:19:00 - [33] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I agree with the OP and see no reason to do 100, 1000 or even a million Radar sites.. 10 sites is more than enough to ascertain a basic conclusion. No, it's not. When I'm prowling for wormholes, I stop for any radar, ded 4/10s, and Watch sites I find. Since I started exploration a year ago, I can remember multi-day runs of bad luck where I found almost nothing, followed by multiple days making over 200 million isk an hour. Run 10 Gurista Scout Outposts and you'll decide a "good" drop is worth about 50-70 million. Run 40 more and you'll probably score two C-Type medium shield boosters, each worth 400+ million. Think of it as rolling dice: The odds of rolling any given pair is 1 in 36. If you roll the dice 100 times and never get a pair of 1s, do you call the dice broken? You need a sample size of 1000+ to effectively generate numbers that match the statistical predictions. It's the same with the coin-flipping analogy someone else used: you don't flip the coin twice and declare it broken. You flip it twenty times and see if the pattern is consistent.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2066	Posted - 2011.12.15 17:31:00 - [34] - Quote Plyn wrote: The OP's statement isn't a conclusion, it's a hypothesis. That might be sensible if the statement had been made in the form of a hypothesis. Just one problem: it wasn't. The OP is demanding explanations and rectification for a situation that he claims is true, without a shred of evidence to back that claim up and without any reason to even believe it to be true to begin with. That's not how you form hypotheses, nor how you pursue them. Hell, he even categorically denies the possibility that it is anything other than fact and emphatically states that it simply cannot (or must not) be proven false. If it is no longer falsifiable, it is no longer a hypothesis. At best, it could be construed as maths-hostile fundamentalismGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Dztrgovac University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 18:31:00 - [35] - Quote First to op. No hisec radars have most certainly not been nerfed they might have actually been buffed a little bit. Pseudorandom numbers are random. In my rather limited exploration history I've found entire 10 sites. 5 Last year, then account expired and 5 in last 10 days since I ressubed after Crucible. Though I've also done couple of static 1/10s but those are not exploration and generally dropped loot. Last year I though a bad drop was a dead-space passive EM armor hardener or a small remote rep. Now, out of 5 DED sites I've done only a single one dropped any dead-space loot. A very discouraging streak of bad luck. But its just random. When there is couple of thousand (maybe couple dozen thousand) people doing exploration ; all hitting the same pseudoRNG (computers are deterministic, true RNG is impossible) generator day after day short or even ling-ish streaks of very good or very bad luck are to be expected. If 10,000 sites are done each day by couple thousand players not a single one of them will have data to have a good picture of how exactly goes the loot distribution curve. Even if you ran exploration for a year or two you will still have access to several hundred, maybe a thousand datapoints. Considering wast number or loot options that might still be not enough to be able to tell anything about exact distribution curves.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.15 18:41:00 - [36] - Quote ITT DMC proves he has no understanding of this game beyond repairing faction standings. oh and GÖÑ u Tippia
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.15 18:47:00 - [37] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: As for my saying that only 1/3rd of cans contain loot, that's an average estimation due to checking 15 cans and only 5 contained loot. That equals to 1/3rd. LO AND BEHOLD, ALL RADAR SITE EXPLORERS! DMC HAS FOUND THE ANSWER! After evaluating 15 cans, he found 5 contained loot. This sample size is without a doubt enough to prove that the drop rate of all radar sites is in fact one third. There is no question to the validity of this analysis. The science of this discovery cannot be undermined; it has been proven beyond any doubt. What this means for all of you: if you do a site, and there are 6 cans and at least 2 of them do not have loot, you should in fact report this as a bug and make a forum post to spread word of your findings. I would even go so far as to say that if you find loot in more than 2 cans out of the 6, you should report it as a bug, else you are exploiting the game. Please bestow all thanks and gratitude upon DMC for his efforts here. This is a monumental moment in the history of exploration. The drop rate of radar sites has been revealed!
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.15 18:53:00 - [38] - Quote Plyn wrote: Or people could just work together. The OP's statement isn't a conclusion, it's a hypothesis. How about.... Instead of flaming each other when NEITHER side has enough evidence, you combine your evidence and create a result. Every time you run a radar site for the next however long, post the truesec of the system you were in, the number of cans that had stuff, the number of cans that didn't have stuff, and the approximate value of the loot. You can even use alts if you're worried about people knowing your habits. In under a week's time you will have thousands of records from all different areas, and THEN you guys can start arguing about what the numbers mean. Hell I'd be all for this. I would love to see a giant damn database recorded. Unfortunately this would require explorers to work together (hint: most enjoy solo play/working alone) and sharing data. It would also require an immense amount of trust. The reason we flame people like the OP is because they have a tiny bad run and immediately decide the game is broken and its time to come to the forums to rage post about how CCP is unfair and exploration is no longer worth doing. The burden of proof in these discussions is on the OP in order to generate a valid discussion. As I said in another post, none of us want exploration to be broken, and thus if there is reasonable evidence of a problem, then we will address it with concern. Unfortunately, people like the OP never present this. They provide anecdotal observations because they are e-mad, thus the responses we see in this thread. People white knighting them does not help.
Citizen Smif Traumark Shadow Elite H Y E N A 30	Posted - 2011.12.15 18:56:00 - [39] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Nice of you to post all that other nonsense while sidestepping the most important question. DeMichael Crimson wrote: Please inform us what you think a significant sample size is? Obviously your answer shows you have no idea. Tippia wrote: How many different sites are there? How many cans do each of them have? How many of each have you run before the patch? The defending side seemed ignorant before but this quote just really shows your mathematical ignorance. It's ludicrous to assume that probability can be determined from 10 samples. Perhaps if the chance of loot was 50%+ then it would be unusual but it's not. Even then 10 wouldn't be enough (40 would be a good number).. You need a much higher sample than 10.. 500 would be a good preliminary and 1000 would be fairly reliable.
Dztrgovac University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 19:18:00 - [40] - Quote Its really sad that doe to competition any effort to create a nice little loot DB, even if it was just "dropped deadspace/faction" "didn't drop" entry, would be futile. People are too afraid do reveal trade secrets and sufficient number of people would enter false data to make entire thing useless. Though I think it hurts more when someone in a hurry for cash undercuts on contracts by 15% then just sharing your finding stats. One thing that amazed me in WOW was that even rarest and most expensive stuff got hard numbers on drop chance just days after being added into game. Loot tables were fully compiles for nearly everything. Most MMOs have that. EVE... Well two years ago just posting about DSP tricks on EVEO forums would have caused wars and IRL beatings. So maybe things are improving a little bit.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.15 19:26:00 - [41] - Quote Dztrgovac wrote: Its really sad that doe to competition any effort to create a nice little loot DB, even if it was just "dropped deadspace/faction" "didn't drop" entry, would be futile. People are too afraid do reveal trade secrets and sufficient number of people would enter false data to make entire thing useless. Though I think it hurts more when someone in a hurry for cash undercuts on contracts by 15% then just sharing your finding stats. One thing that amazed me in WOW was that even rarest and most expensive stuff got hard numbers on drop chance just days after being added into game. Loot tables were fully compiles for nearly everything. Most MMOs have that. EVE... Well two years ago just posting about DSP tricks on EVEO forums would have caused wars and IRL beatings. So maybe things are improving a little bit. We'll get there eventually. Personally I love the people that undercut my loot. In a rush to get isk or something? Demand rarely changes and I know the prices people will pay when supply drops a bit. So I just leave my stuff up there and in time it sells.
namelessclone01 blackbox ops 6	Posted - 2011.12.15 19:36:00 - [42] - Quote i just spent 2 hrs docked in jita and i haven't had any good drops in that timeframe. hell, no drop at all! explo is surely broken.
Rubinia Valeska Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:27:00 - [43] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Plyn wrote: Or people could just work together. The OP's statement isn't a conclusion, it's a hypothesis. How about.... Instead of flaming each other when NEITHER side has enough evidence, you combine your evidence and create a result. Every time you run a radar site for the next however long, post the truesec of the system you were in, the number of cans that had stuff, the number of cans that didn't have stuff, and the approximate value of the loot. You can even use alts if you're worried about people knowing your habits. In under a week's time you will have thousands of records from all different areas, and THEN you guys can start arguing about what the numbers mean. Hell I'd be all for this. I would love to see a giant damn database recorded. Unfortunately this would require explorers to work together (hint: most enjoy solo play/working alone) and sharing data. It would also require an immense amount of trust. The reason we flame people like the OP is because they have a tiny bad run and immediately decide the game is broken and its time to come to the forums to rage post about how CCP is unfair and exploration is no longer worth doing. The burden of proof in these discussions is on the OP in order to generate a valid discussion. As I said in another post, none of us want exploration to be broken, and thus if there is reasonable evidence of a problem, then we will address it with concern. Unfortunately, people like the OP never present this. They provide anecdotal observations because they are e-mad, thus the responses we see in this thread. People white knighting them does not help. When I came to the game I checked the wiki for drop rates and sources of items and was amazed to not find aynthing about that. I was used to it from other games. I dont know what you would gain from hiding that in this game. It's not like you wont run a site that drops expensive items just because you do not know what exactly can drop and by what probability. Unfortunately the interface also doesnt allow easy collecting of this data so you would have to enter it manually. But if such a project ever gets started I'd be interested to join.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:31:00 - [44] - Quote Do other games developers provide the information? Or do the players actually work together? Like I said I would love to see players work on this (I'm pretty sure people have tried evaluating various aspects of exploration, but it usually doesn't amount to much). But I am quite glad that CCP does not release the information. The less information the better. It means players have a bit more work to do. We have but to do it...
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:37:00 - [45] - Quote Random can not be compiled. Unlike "the fleet slippers of Zambo" in some elf game, the drops are random.
Dztrgovac University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:06:00 - [46] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: Random can not be compiled. Unlike "the fleet slippers of Zambo" in some elf game, the drops are random. Has this ever been actually said by devs? Has it ever in 8 years of EVE's life been said "exploration loot doesn't have ANY behind the scenes drop tables and is completely random"? Loot tables exist, it can't be completely random. 4/10 plex has to drop C-type [prefix]um loot and faction stuff. It can not drop any deadscape and faction stuff; but if it drops deadspace it has to drop loot of its own type. Faction gear is likely also restricted; I don't think a 4 (or 5 or 6) type plex can drop faction BS modules.
2manno Rockland Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:14:00 - [47] - Quote i do a fair amount of exploration in low sec (that is 1-5 systems/day) and have noticed a significant reduction in the value of the average radar site as well. it seems they're actually worth about what the average mag site has been buffed to. $1.5 - $5 mil.
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:02:00 - [48] - Quote The only thing I've noticed lately is a noticeable dearth of radar sites. But those I've found still yield 4 or 5 operations manuals or the like. Hardly 1.5m isk.
Aine Morchet State War Academy Caldari State 13	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:41:00 - [49] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Do other games developers provide the information? Or do the players actually work together? Like I said I would love to see players work on this (I'm pretty sure people have tried evaluating various aspects of exploration, but it usually doesn't amount to much). But I am quite glad that CCP does not release the information. The less information the better. It means players have a bit more work to do. We have but to do it... It is player compiled. And I was a little surprised when I came to eve and such a thing was not available. But eve is...different. More real? Less gamelike? For some reason the idea of compiling droprates and staring the fact that this is a videogame in the face seems less appropriate here than in WoW (where Blizzard makes everything extremely 'gamelike', as it's doing with D3). PS: Here's my anecdotal radar experience postpatch: plenty of sites, no site less than 5m, average 10m, combination hisec lowsec (about 50/50).
Rubinia Valeska Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN 1	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:57:00 - [50] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: Random can not be compiled. Unlike "the fleet slippers of Zambo" in some elf game, the drops are random. No drops are not random and I have no idea why you would say such. Each site in eve has a certain item pool and range of number per items it can drop. For instance in radar sites you will only see racial specific decryptors, data cores, tool blueprint, tool materials and such. This makes the item pool per site pretty small. The names just differ from that elf game of yours.
Rubinia Valeska Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN 1	Posted - 2011.12.16 00:07:00 - [51] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Do other games developers provide the information? Or do the players actually work together? Like I said I would love to see players work on this (I'm pretty sure people have tried evaluating various aspects of exploration, but it usually doesn't amount to much). But I am quite glad that CCP does not release the information. The less information the better. It means players have a bit more work to do. We have but to do it... In Wow the info can easily collected by UI addons and uploaded to web sites such as wowhead. This makes it easy to gather large sample sizes. Since players have access to the official test server the loot pool is mostly available when the content goes live. In Final Fantasy XI the info the game gives you is pretty much non existant. The players have to band together to discover stuff even game mechanics for themselves. For item drops this has never been a problem though. Most items worth anything are either crafted or dropped by one specific source in the game. Normal monsters rarely drop items other than crafting materials. So its pretty easy to compile the source of an item that matters. As to the probability, lets just say, if you want it you either buy it if you can or grind as long as you need to get the item.
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2011.12.16 01:03:00 - [52] - Quote Rubinia Valeska wrote: Flakey Foont wrote: Random can not be compiled. Unlike "the fleet slippers of Zambo" in some elf game, the drops are random. No drops are not random and I have no idea why you would say such. Each site in eve has a certain item pool and range of number per items it can drop. For instance in radar sites you will only see racial specific decryptors, data cores, tool blueprint, tool materials and such. This makes the item pool per site pretty small. The names just differ from that elf game of yours. Forgive me. Within the item pool in each type of site, the drops are random, including zero.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.16 01:31:00 - [53] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: Rubinia Valeska wrote: Flakey Foont wrote: Random can not be compiled. Unlike "the fleet slippers of Zambo" in some elf game, the drops are random. No drops are not random and I have no idea why you would say such. Each site in eve has a certain item pool and range of number per items it can drop. For instance in radar sites you will only see racial specific decryptors, data cores, tool blueprint, tool materials and such. This makes the item pool per site pretty small. The names just differ from that elf game of yours. Forgive me. Within the item pool in each type of site, the drops are random, including zero. We don't know how drops are chosen. All we know is that there are drop tables. It seems like some items are more rare than others but this may simply be our primal WANT MORE ISK. I personally think each item has a 1 in something chance to drop, depending on what its possibly dropping from. I think it does some calculation like "how many items will drop", then based on that amount, goes through the loot table and picks the items seemingly randomly. But the items would be "weighted," so faction modules would have much less weight than deadspace modules and some deadspace modules may be weighted less than others, thus introducing their drop rate. So in theory, when the overseer npc/structure is destroyed, first the amount of items would be established and then which items to drop would be established based on their weights. To simplify things, Item A may have a 70% chance, Item B a 25% chance and Item C a 5% chance. So if when you destroy it and its decided the drop will be 2 items, you will have a good chance at Item A and Item B, with a very small chance that one of them might be Item C instead. And then there might be the rare occasion that Item B and C get chosen. Just my theory on it.
Mnemosyne Gloob Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc. 8	Posted - 2011.12.16 02:19:00 - [54] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: So in theory, when the overseer npc/structure is destroyed I think it is calculated earlier, because you can cargo scan overseers and look what they hold. Otherwise i approve on the direction this thread is headed. :) [edit]oh and i think THEY are watching deadspace market on whatever terms, so if say the c-type boosters go down in price a lot because many are found the droprates will be slightly adjusted. Might just be superstition on my part tho.[/edit]
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2011.12.16 02:35:00 - [55] - Quote Oh I forgot about the scanning method. Either way, theory could still apply, albeit with modification as to when that stuff is determined.
Czeris Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 15	Posted - 2011.12.16 10:09:00 - [56] - Quote It is sad to hear that they nerfed the Radar sites, but keep your chin up, for I have good news! I ran a Dread Guristas Fleet Staging Point for the first time since the patch and it dropped 500 million isk! This is 400 million more than the two I ran before the patch! This huge buff I think more than offsets the clear nerf to Radar sites. Unfortunately I also started drinking and let some guy in a Machariel pop my pod when I forgot it was my good clone. Nerf Machariels!
2manno Rockland Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2011.12.16 15:18:00 - [57] - Quote Aine Morchet wrote: PS: Here's my anecdotal radar experience postpatch: plenty of sites, no site less than 5m, average 10m, combination hisec lowsec (about 50/50). hmmm. that's what radar sites were for me pre-crucible. maybe it's just my region then, or an unusually long spout of really bad luck. i haven't had a radar site drop more than $5mm yet (frankly not even $5mm). yesterday was radar drop fail again :/ also like Flakey Foont said above, thus far they seem to be more rare as well.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 264	Posted - 2011.12.16 15:44:00 - [58] - Quote dry spells in drops and site spawning? SAY IT ISNT SO
OllieNorth Recidivists Incorporated 23	Posted - 2011.12.16 16:20:00 - [59] - Quote I am seriously tempted to just start an exploration log to post online with the drops from sites I run. I would like to see how it all goes over time (hint: it will even out). Then I would be able to just link that to every one of these threads.
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 188	Posted - 2011.12.16 16:48:00 - [60] - Quote I don't usually do Radar sites but, in the name of science, I contribute the following: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgyYH4Hyu_cZdDNsTUdkckZpSGYwa215X2NCS3k5c0E
Rubinia Valeska Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN 3	Posted - 2011.12.17 12:26:00 - [61] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: Forgive me. Within the item pool in each type of site, the drops are random, including zero. I think you should read up on statistics(science to interpret large data sets) and stochastics (part of mathematics dealing with random numbers or probabilities). There are quite a few things that could be learned from doing this. An estimate of a site's value, drop rate of specific items within a site, maybe even the rules that are used to determine what drops and in which quantities.
Ooda London Elektricity 1	Posted - 2011.12.18 21:05:00 - [62] - Quote Come on.. No one will ever be able to proof a bug with exploration loot-distribution through hard evidence. It's funny to see smart and well known forum people transforming into trolls everytime somebody takes his chance to complain about. Keep on going, free comedy everytime :D
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 278	Posted - 2011.12.18 21:27:00 - [63] - Quote Ooda wrote: Come on.. No one will ever be able to proof a bug with exploration loot-distribution through hard evidence. It's funny to see smart and well known forum people transforming into trolls everytime somebody takes his chance to complain about. Keep on going, free comedy everytime :D So every time you hit a dry spell, run to the forums? Also it'd be quite easy to at the very least logically assess the situation. Prices for each loot drop are pretty stable. If we see a sudden spike in certain modules, we can be sure that supply is suddenly dropping (or demand, but for arguments sake, lets say supply) thus possibly indicating a reduction in drops. The inverse of this has already been proven true. The implementation of the Guristas DED 3/10 meant the Pithi A-type small shield booster could now drop in high sec, whereas before it was a rare drop from the final part of an escalation chain that ends in low sec (this meant finding the site, getting the initial escalation, getting full escalation to the final site, and then getting the lucky drop...lots of chances to not get the module, thus very rare). Now that its available from a single site in high sec (and pretty easy to find) supply has increased dramatically, the market has been saturated and prices have plummeted. Point being, drop increase = price decrease, drop decrease = price increase, assuming demand stays about the same. But its easier to run to the forums and cry about doing 4 DED 4/10s and only getting overseer effects.
Ooda London Elektricity 1	Posted - 2011.12.18 21:59:00 - [64] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Ooda wrote: Come on.. No one will ever be able to proof a bug with exploration loot-distribution through hard evidence. It's funny to see smart and well known forum people transforming into trolls everytime somebody takes his chance to complain about. Keep on going, free comedy everytime :D So every time you hit a dry spell, run to the forums? congratz, you completely missed the point :) Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed. Helpful, but not needed. I'm not saying this is bug or not, I just think its funny to ask for something no one will ever be able to provide ;)
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 279	Posted - 2011.12.18 22:41:00 - [65] - Quote Ooda wrote: Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed. In order for there to be a problem, yes, hard evidence is needed. Please try reading what I posted instead of being a generic moron. But nice try on the whole white knighting thing bro.
Ooda London Elektricity 3	Posted - 2011.12.19 00:55:00 - [66] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Ooda wrote: Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed. In order for there to be a problem, yes, hard evidence is needed. Please try reading what I posted instead of being a generic moron. But nice try on the whole white knighting thing bro. Please re-read what I wrote earlier. No player will ever be able to provide hard evidence on drop-chance related issues, unless he makes a database with every single player contributing to. Market stuff and demand/supply can be influenced by more than just drop-chance of an item. Basically, they are only assumptions which might proof true, or might not.
Luh Windan S T R A T C O M 16	Posted - 2011.12.19 10:03:00 - [67] - Quote Ooda wrote: Emperor Salazar wrote: Ooda wrote: Complaining players can indicate a problem, hard evidence is not needed. In order for there to be a problem, yes, hard evidence is needed. Please try reading what I posted instead of being a generic moron. But nice try on the whole white knighting thing bro. Please re-read what I wrote earlier. No player will ever be able to provide hard evidence on drop-chance related issues, unless he makes a database with every single player contributing to. Market stuff and demand/supply can be influenced by more than just drop-chance of an item. Basically, they are only assumptions which might proof true, or might not. TL;DR: You dismissively say "these are only assumptions." - there are tried and tested tools in statistics, probability and economics for testing these types of assumptions that do not require perfect knowledge The lack of understanding of what should be basic maths on this thread is quite horrifying in places. It seems from reading this thread that players of other MMOs that we all look down on can understand what drop tables are and also reverse engineer them. So just to look at what you are saying: you are suggesting that the only way to provide evidence is a massive sample size - presumably of millions of drops? while that would provide nice data it actually isn't necessary. The concept of "sampling" allows us to work out trends and patterns without looking at all of the data. If the OP had come with a sample size of a few hundred, there might be something to look at, a 1000 odd - they would probably be taken seriously causing others to start making records. The techniques behind this are all well understood - read a book on statistics. if I had my way an understanding of probability and statistics would be as essential as reading and writing in school. You do realise that you hear about stats and probability every single day from politicians, lobbying groups and the media? If you don't understand them then these people are simply able to bullshit you (and they do try hard, fortunately not all the populace are ignorant of how it works) And what is more the markets are an extremely effective tool for understanding a macro picture of what is going on. These dropped objects are in demand by people who build ships and modules, these modules have a roughly constant level of demand. What is more this demand is spread across many dropped objects because people build many different things. Yes there will be noise in the picture and yes there will be some variation. But again as a rule of thumb it is most likely the first place you would be able to see that there is some sort of problem that needs looking at more closely.
Orlacc Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2011.12.19 15:36:00 - [68] - Quote I had my best radar site day in two years yesterday....100m in two hours. So if there was a change I like it.
Zenedia Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2011.12.19 19:20:00 - [69] - Quote I've gone for a while in WHs having my RADAR cans be totally empty. Other times I would run 2 and get fistfuls of Caldari crypters. Your sample of 4 is so pathetically small that you are either a fantastic troll, in which case I give you a 3/10 since I replied, or you are ignorant about your "statistics won't change" based on a sample size of 4. You do understand that statistics are a way to trend a set of data that by it's very nature CANNOT be trended by picking a representative sample and examining the results? Your sample of 4, in the grand scheme of EVERY POSSIBLE RADAR site in the game that has been done to date, is beyond worthless to determine any sort of trend. TL:DR -All hail the RNGod. Run 20X your "sample" size then talk about trends and things being broken.
Amelia Shortcake The Right Hand of Beadle 3	Posted - 2011.12.19 20:24:00 - [70] - Quote Earth Keeper wrote: 4 was enough. Do you play EVE like you live your life? How is welfare treating you?
Miss President SOLARIS ASTERIUS 21	Posted - 2012.01.03 04:34:00 - [71] - Quote after running lots and lots of radar sites in a couple of years, today I ran my first radar after the new expansion, this site dropped 0 dycriptors, and about 16 datacores, other items were worthless components for interfaces that didn't fit into the ship's cargo. never had this before, even in 0.0. Don't give me exploration is based on chance crap, radar and mag always guaranteed a minimum income. What happened CCP?
Ryuce 18	Posted - 2012.01.03 08:45:00 - [72] - Quote Miss President wrote: after running lots and lots of radar sites in a couple of years, today I ran my first radar after the new expansion, this site dropped 0 dycriptors, and about 16 datacores, other items were worthless components for interfaces that didn't fit into the ship's cargo. never had this before, even in 0.0. Don't give me exploration is based on chance crap, radar and mag always guaranteed a minimum income. What happened CCP? 0/10
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 399	Posted - 2012.01.03 16:54:00 - [73] - Quote Miss President wrote: after running lots and lots of radar sites in a couple of years, today I ran my first radar after the new expansion, this site dropped 0 dycriptors, and about 16 datacores, other items were worthless components for interfaces that didn't fit into the ship's cargo. never had this before, even in 0.0. Don't give me exploration is based on chance crap, radar and mag always guaranteed a minimum income. What happened CCP? Bad troll. Make your own thread next time.
OllieNorth Recidivists Incorporated 124	Posted - 2012.01.03 17:55:00 - [74] - Quote I love when the words "guaranteed" and "minimum" come up in reference to a random table with "nothing" as an option. But by all means people, quit exploring, it's both unprofitable and most likely a sin.
Kilrayn Caldari Provisions 166	Posted - 2012.01.03 19:44:00 - [75] - Quote Making obligatory appearance in an 'exploration is broken' thread. I'm not actually sure If I've appeared before or not, as bad necro is bad and I don't feel like checking. Also, if loot isn't dropping for you, you aren't rubbing your lucky charm correctly, and need more practice. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'.
SexTrader Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2012.01.03 20:09:00 - [76] - Quote Kilrayn wrote: Also, if loot isn't dropping for you, you aren't rubbing your lucky charm correctly, and need more practice. Lets try to keep our 'privates' out of this conversation, shall we?
CeneUJiti School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.01.03 22:07:00 - [77] - Quote Had some luck and just wondering how much of it. Whats a average loot of a Serpentsi 5/10 and what is "sweet" and what is "jawdrop"?
Kara Books Hedion University Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2012.01.05 21:29:00 - [78] - Quote Earth Keeper wrote: After patch were done 4 radar open space sites in Angel area. The drop from all 4 of them was pathetic and 3/4 of cans were totally empty . Comparing to the pre-patch drop, it was almost close to the usual drop from one anomaly, as at least one item was found in can. Why to nerf the sites that were non profitable pre-patch and now became a total FAIL! Where is the result of your significant work you have done on "improving and increasing the drop"? Better rollback to where it was pre-patch.. Iv heard the same subject pop up atleast every 2 days, before the patch, long before. the same answer to them all was "Chances" its all about random chances.
Banible Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:16:00 - [79] - Quote Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game... Cheers QQers
Kilrayn Caldari Provisions 172	Posted - 2012.01.07 16:06:00 - [80] - Quote Banible wrote: Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game... Cheers QQers Take your baseless and moronic assertions elsewhere. Cheers. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 74	Posted - 2012.01.07 16:12:00 - [81] - Quote Banible wrote: Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game... Cheers QQers So was it a traumatic incident that caused the brain damage resulting in your stupidity or were you just born that way?
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 94	Posted - 2012.01.07 16:40:00 - [82] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: Banible wrote: Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game... Cheers QQers So was it a traumatic incident that caused the brain damage resulting in your stupidity or were you just born that way? God I hate that avatar Sal.....
Kilrayn Caldari Provisions 172	Posted - 2012.01.07 16:44:00 - [83] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: XXSketchxx wrote: Banible wrote: Decreasing drop rates is the first sign of a game going down, and they did it... Site spawn rates, site drop rates and DED complexes faction loot... If you didnt noticed its because exploring is not your main income activity in game... Cheers QQers So was it a traumatic incident that caused the brain damage resulting in your stupidity or were you just born that way? God I hate that avatar Sal..... I'd assume Sal's banned atm. Only logical explination. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'.
Heun zero Aegis Evolution Soldiers 0f Fortune 31	Posted - 2012.01.07 17:01:00 - [84] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Sir Livingston wrote: nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff...who cares what they did. Adapt and survive. Hopefully Darwinism will take care of the OP... we can give him the darwin award when he reprocesses his char
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 74	Posted - 2012.01.07 17:21:00 - [85] - Quote I look hott, don't hate. As for Sal, he's on a much needed vacation in the Caymans. Dont worry he will be back in due time and in the meantime I will be providing mission and complexes with the support it needs.
Mukuro Gravedigger Republic University Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2012.01.07 17:29:00 - [86] - Quote Am I doing this right? /me looks at his Cheetah and sees nothing drop out of it. /me runs to the forums. WTF CCP? Exploration is fubared!!111! I have not gone on a good exploration run in quite some time. But when I did, I always went with the mindset that any sites found will be barren and empty of goods. Especially after CCP made exploration much easier than the old way of setting probes per planet and scanning from there. Perhaps I should dust off the old Cheetah and see what is lying around (besides barren and empty containers).

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