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saltrock0000
DottCom
118
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Posted - 2016.01.08 11:41:08 -
[31] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Regardless of which side of the debate you're on, this is a stupidly redundant thread as CCP has already stated they intend to remove attribute implants. I'm not sure why ISD hasn't already locked it.
Ah thats great, been away for a extended break wasnt aware they had already decided to remove them 
\'''\<(o_O)>/'''/
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Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
117
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Posted - 2016.01.08 11:49:04 -
[32] - Quote
If CCP will remove learning implants. Pirates will hate the game more |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
1003
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Posted - 2016.01.08 11:58:50 -
[33] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:I mean if you have the money to regularly risk very expensive pods then great, well done you, but most people do not and given that the effect these have is nil in combat it is a broken system. One not conducive to encouraging PvP at all opportunities. You do not need to risk ridiculously expensive pods. +3 implants are more than sufficient for 90% of usage scenarios. You gain a significantly increased SP accumulation rate over no implants, but they are so cheap that the loss is recovered with 1 anomaly or 1 L4 mission (or some trading/mining/PI). The problem is not the price of the implants or risk of losing an expensive pod -- it is entirely the mindset of the players: People want to train at max speed at all times and when they realize how costly it can potentially be for them when that expectation collides with their other expectations (constant PVP in dangerous areas, for instance), they blame the implants for their risk aversion. However, not the implants are at fault, the players themselves are because they do not properly evaluate the risks versus the benefits of different implants. Personal anecdote: I have only usedd +4s in my first couple of months when I was situated in High sec. Ever since I moved out to Null sec/Low sec, I have not used +4s in my regular clones. I exclusively use +3s and I have not yet encountered any skill training time that was unbearably, excruciatingly long, let alone situations where I missed out massively on action. The only situations where I use my +4 clone is when I am on vacation and cannot play EVE at all (or for my station sitting alts who are training things and don't leave the station in the first place). All in all, the implants are not the problem. It is players not being capable of thinking about and evaluating their actions, as well as the colliding, mutually exclusive expectations resulting from the previous.
I feel like you're missing my point. I too only ever use +3, sometimes +2 if I expect not to fly home. I just suck up the slower training. But that doesn't mean I can't point out it is a stupid status quo.
My point is that it's dumb the way it is set up. Hell you're all telling us that none of you use high grades and nor do I really just underlines it. "Oh implants are fine, no-one uses them" is hardly a glowing evaluation of them working well, is it. Defender missiles are broken,not using them like everyone does isn't something that makes them not broken. Workarounds are not the same as a lack of an issue in the first place.
As for risk aversion? I guess technically but then most everyone in the game does the same thing - not partake in high grades, it's more or less a high sec super bear activity. You, me and everyone else not using +5s out in bubbleville are all equally risk averse on that front. Like I say, it's prudence, nothing more.
tl;dr: I dislike rewarding the safest space residents the most. |
Iain Cariaba
2308
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Posted - 2016.01.08 12:46:10 -
[34] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:tl;dr: I dislike rewarding the safest space residents the most.
That would actually be the nullbear areas, not highsec.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
1003
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Posted - 2016.01.08 13:18:32 -
[35] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:tl;dr: I dislike rewarding the safest space residents the most. That would actually be the nullbear areas, not highsec.
Not where pods are concerned. Ships, for sure though. |
GaRaMaGaDa
Pixel Hunters
47
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Posted - 2016.01.08 13:35:13 -
[36] - Quote
-£-+-¦-+-+ -+-¦ -â-¦-¦-+-Å-é-î -ü-é-¦-Ç-ï-¦ -+-+-+-+-¦-+-é-ï -¦ -¦-+-¦-¦-¦-+-é-î -+-+-¦-ï-¦, -ó2 -+-¦-+-Ç-+-+-¦-Ç, -¦-+-é-+-Ç-ï-¦ -+-¦ -¦-â-¦-â-é -¦-+-Ç-¦-é-î -+-Ç-+ -ü-+-¦-Ç-é-¦ -+-+ -+-+-¦-+-+ -¦-â-¦-¦-é -+-à -+-+-è-Å-é-î -+-Ç-+ -+-¦-+-¦-à-+-¦-+-+-+-ü-é-+.
if you can not remove the old implants add new ones, such as T2, which will not burn to death but you can remove them if necessary.
http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=107065
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GaRaMaGaDa
Pixel Hunters
47
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Posted - 2016.01.08 13:39:34 -
[37] - Quote
-+-+-+ -+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î -+-+-+-+-¦-+-é-ï -+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-+-¦-+-+ -ü "cerebral accelerator booster"
or alter the implants, by analogy with "cerebral accelerator booster"
http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=107065
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Takari
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Squids
504
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Posted - 2016.01.08 13:55:50 -
[38] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
You're a 2007 character. If you can't afford ~20million for two +3 implants in your PVP clone, you're doing something seriously wrong.
Wat? Do older characters get free money or something? I want some of that free money!
"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things.
Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2401
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Posted - 2016.01.08 14:27:19 -
[39] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:My point is that it's dumb the way it is set up. Hell you're all telling us that none of you use high grades and nor do I really just underlines it. "Oh implants are fine, no-one uses them" is hardly a glowing evaluation of them working well, is it.
This is where your argument falls apart. As I was trying to get at with my post, implants are one of the areas where the true nature of EVE's Risk vs. Reward actually works.
Low usage of +5's is not a sign that they are broken. It is a sign that they are an expensive item that are on the high end of the risk/reward curve. By their nature they shouldn't be used a lot. This is also true of ALL implants. I mean I'd love a full set of high grade slaves, but the risk isn't worth their cost to me.
This is true also of all the high end attribute implants. I'm sure not many risk them in PVP either. But that doesn't mean they are broken. I like the fact that IF someone is willing to risk the isk on them, they can have that edge over someone else. They deserve to.
Personally, I would like to see all implants remain in the game. We are already losing plenty of other risk/reward/emergent gameplay options that are the the cornerstone of what has made this game so unique and awesome.
IF however they removed learning implants, I want to see them leave the SP rate at the default. That would be a huge laughable solution to all the whiners. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
1003
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 14:37:50 -
[40] - Quote
What edge do I have by training faster? No-one is talking about pirate implants here (I don't think, I certainly am not).
There is a (very low) and finite cap on skills which can affect a given hull I sit in. That I can train advanced spaceship command that bit faster has exactly no impact on my power in a cerberus. Or the fact I can fly all the sub caps because I trained faster, what use is that to the one I'm in?
Zero.
The second problem is that I gain the benefits of accelerated training when docked. I KEEP those benefits when I clone to an empty pod.
You are absolutely bang on point with regard to pirate implants and I'm 100% behind you that they are perfectly balanced. I refer only to the pure attribute ones. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions
The-Company
1021
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Posted - 2016.01.08 15:22:46 -
[41] - Quote
Takari wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
You're a 2007 character. If you can't afford ~20million for two +3 implants in your PVP clone, you're doing something seriously wrong.
Wat? Do older characters get free money or something? I want some of that free money!
Me too!
Oh and when you buy 5 implants that cost a total of less than 400m for a billion isk, you should know better by now..
LOL
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Iain Cariaba
2310
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Posted - 2016.01.08 16:42:41 -
[42] - Quote
Takari wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
You're a 2007 character. If you can't afford ~20million for two +3 implants in your PVP clone, you're doing something seriously wrong.
Wat? Do older characters get free money or something? I want some of that free money!
Older characters have more options to make isk, and the ability to make that isk faster. 20mil is a low tick for me when ratting in null.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
368
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:09:22 -
[43] - Quote
The only reason pilots think of implants as a burden is because they're locked down by an old arbitrary game mechanic that desperately needs to be updated and modernized. If clone jumping were re-tooled, we wouldn't be having people bring this up constantly. That CCP would rather take tools away from the game instead of budge just a little on a game mechanic that can be updated just as much as any ship or other game mechanic is insane. They can take away boarding ships in space while under a criminal flag, skynet, and combat refitting, but give local jump-cloning reduced cooldown is just a bridge too far? This is madness.
You can take out learning implants, and the risk-averse will still be risk-averse. And you will STILL need to update the jump-clone mechanic because the entire game has changed and that needs to as well. So you accomplish nothing and gimp the game in the process. Removing learning implants is daft, unless they intend to replace it with a more interesting system - which I'd be VERY open to hearing about but so far I haven't heard anything.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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