It would be great if CCP remove learning implants from the game.

Pvping and loosing stat implants (slot 6 and up) no problem as they directly effect pvp performance.

Having to weigh up the lost sp from jumping to a fresh clone without learning implants to have some fun puts me off alot, so i assume it puts others off.

Base learning skill stats with no implants would be cool



o7

It would be great if CCP remove learning implants from the game.

Pvping and loosing stat implants (slot 6 and up) no problem as they directly effect pvp performance.

Having to weigh up the lost sp from jumping to a fresh clone without learning implants to have some fun puts me off alot, so i assume it puts others off.

Base learning skill stats with no implants would be cool



o7

You're a 2007 character. If you can't afford ~20million for two +3 implants in your PVP clone, you're doing something seriously wrong.

The same way character age is not linked to levels & combat abilities directly, it is also not linked to income.
You constantly sing out about how this isn't a traditional MMO, yet you then abuse people on the grounds of traditional MMO such as old = rich, when in EVE it doesn't automatically link.

Im actually talking about 1bil +/- for +5's

Figured you did. You apparently don't realize a few things.

1. A full set of learning implants is a waste of isk. You only need a couple.
2. The reduction in train time for +5s vs. +3s is really negligible. You're only looking at reducing a 30+ day level 5 train by about a day using +5s over +3s.
3. It's must be so terrible for you to have to make choices in this game. I mean, having to make a choice between learning at max possible sp/hr and not being able to PvP, or learning at slightly less than max sp/hr and being able to PvP. Your EvE must be sooooo horrible.

Unfortauntly its about 5 days difference per month. Means you get 14 months of training in a year if you use +5's... Might not sound like alot but it adds up.

Unfortauntly its about 5 days difference per month. Means you get 14 months of training in a year if you use +5's... Might not sound like alot but it adds up.

It would be great if CCP remove learning implants from the game.

Pvping and loosing stat implants (slot 6 and up) no problem as they directly effect pvp performance.

Having to weigh up the lost sp from jumping to a fresh clone without learning implants to have some fun puts me off alot, so i assume it puts others off.

Base learning skill stats with no implants would be cool



o7

3. It's must be so terrible for you to have to make choices in this game. I mean, having to make a choice between learning at max possible sp/hr and not being able to PvP

Figured you did. You apparently don't realize a few things.

1. A full set of learning implants is a waste of isk. You only need a couple.
2. The reduction in train time for +5s vs. +3s is really negligible. You're only looking at reducing a 30+ day level 5 train by about a day using +5s over +3s.
3. It's must be so terrible for you to have to make choices in this game. I mean, having to make a choice between learning at max possible sp/hr and not being able to PvP, or learning at slightly less than max sp/hr and being able to PvP. Your EvE must be sooooo horrible.

I just want to add that I've actively avoided wormholes and PVP specifically because I didn't want to transfer to a jump clone for a day (or more), losing that training speed benefit from my implants.

Even though I run +3's, even though I have over a billion isk, they are still extremely expensive to replace.

Instead of undocking and flying around doing stuff, I station trade and let my character skill up.
They are not a very good mechanic, and much like clone grades they have a detrimental effect on getting people to actually play the game.

Actually that is a really ****** choice. It's not even a choice, which is kind of the problem.

PvPing in high grade learning (not pirate) implants is flat out stupid without exception. It is as much of a "choice" as not updating your clone in days gone by.

The issue I have here is that learning implants do create opportunity cost within the game beyond just ISK.

There is a reason I dont fly with slave sets all the time even though I can afford it... Without these trade-offs there are far fewer reasons not to always sit in at least low-grade pirate implant sets.

And so was not upgrading your clone. It's a choice in name only.

Given your final sniping comment, I assume you think anyone not officer fitting frigates is a risk averse pansy too? Sorry I'm not space rich enough to lose a few billion a week on pod losses, you're right, I should go play a softer game.

Honestly.

Not even close. Yes upgrading your clone was kind of a choice in name only. The choice of Learning implants is purely a choice. You can choose higher level implants, train a bit faster and risk more or not.

In my entire time playing EVE I have never used above +3 learning implants, and amazingly it has not negatively impacted my EVE experience.

I hope they leave learning implants in, if for no other reason I can continue to read these wonderful threads.

Tell me, give me one good reason why high sec players should enjoy the safest, fastest training compared to anyone else. Just one will do.

It's not terrible, it's just stupid. So I don't do it. I abide by the "dont fly what would hurt to lose (repeatedly)" rule. At the rate pods die it's simple prudence on my part. But then, some of us are out shooting more than others....which goes back to my officer/deadspace fit frigate remark, really. Given the average pod loss this month is ~40,000 isk it would appear that the people who are losing them in large part agree with me - the risk is pointless and stupid.

I mean if you have the money to regularly risk very expensive pods then great, well done you, but most people do not and given that the effect these have is nil in combat it is a broken system. One not conducive to encouraging PvP at all opportunities.

Dude, the whole game is full of opportunity costs. You cannot remove opportunity costs entirely. In fact, I'd argue it is those opportunity costs that make the game. You asses these costs then take an action. What the OP here is arguing over though is a trivial opportunity cost. It is like worrying what effect the change in price of pencils in Oregon will have on the price of toilet paper in Finland. There may very well be an effect, but WTF cares?

I mean if you have the money to regularly risk very expensive pods then great, well done you, but most people do not and given that the effect these have is nil in combat it is a broken system. One not conducive to encouraging PvP at all opportunities.

It would be great if CCP remove learning implants from the game.

Pvping and loosing stat implants (slot 6 and up) no problem as they directly effect pvp performance.

Having to weigh up the lost sp from jumping to a fresh clone without learning implants to have some fun puts me off alot, so i assume it puts others off.

Base learning skill stats with no implants would be cool



o7

Regardless of which side of the debate you're on, this is a stupidly redundant thread as CCP has already stated they intend to remove attribute implants. I'm not sure why ISD hasn't already locked it.

You do not need to risk ridiculously expensive pods. +3 implants are more than sufficient for 90% of usage scenarios. You gain a significantly increased SP accumulation rate over no implants, but they are so cheap that the loss is recovered with 1 anomaly or 1 L4 mission (or some trading/mining/PI). The problem is not the price of the implants or risk of losing an expensive pod -- it is entirely the mindset of the players: People want to train at max speed at all times and when they realize how costly it can potentially be for them when that expectation collides with their other expectations (constant PVP in dangerous areas, for instance), they blame the implants for their risk aversion. However, not the implants are at fault, the players themselves are because they do not properly evaluate the risks versus the benefits of different implants. Personal anecdote: I have only usedd +4s in my first couple of months when I was situated in High sec. Ever since I moved out to Null sec/Low sec, I have not used +4s in my regular clones. I exclusively use +3s and I have not yet encountered any skill training time that was unbearably, excruciatingly long, let alone situations where I missed out massively on action. The only situations where I use my +4 clone is when I am on vacation and cannot play EVE at all (or for my station sitting alts who are training things and don't leave the station in the first place).

All in all, the implants are not the problem. It is players not being capable of thinking about and evaluating their actions, as well as the colliding, mutually exclusive expectations resulting from the previous.

tl;dr: I dislike rewarding the safest space residents the most.

That would actually be the nullbear areas, not highsec.

You're a 2007 character. If you can't afford ~20million for two +3 implants in your PVP clone, you're doing something seriously wrong.

My point is that it's dumb the way it is set up. Hell you're all telling us that none of you use high grades and nor do I really just underlines it. "Oh implants are fine, no-one uses them" is hardly a glowing evaluation of them working well, is it.

Wat? Do older characters get free money or something? I want some of that free money!

Wat? Do older characters get free money or something? I want some of that free money!