The mind games in FW will move to a whole new level, at the very least.

I wanna give them heavy neuts so they can threaten larger ships.

Svipul fitted 100 mils, Af 35-40 mils. Obviously 100 mils ship will be better then 35-40 mils ship.

I wanna give them heavy neuts so they can threaten larger ships.

I wanna give them heavy neuts so they can threaten larger ships.

Svipul fitted 100 mils, Af 35-40 mils. Obviously 100 mils ship will be better then 35-40 mils ship.

I'll just take out my officer fit Ibis and go wreck if price is obviously a balance factor

Because that wouldn't be power creep at all, there is already very little reasons to fly larger ships as it is!!

Here's an idea, instead of giving assault frigs a "bandaid" to better fit into the svipul shaped peg in the meta with the intended fleet role of the ship class, we change up the ship class to fill a niche that won't be better fit and outclassed in almost every way by a tech 3 destroyer.

Rename the Assault Frigate ship class to Reconnaissance Frigate and give them all d-scan immunity.
It would give the ship class something unique, and it should provide a neat little niche for the ship class to excel in.
The mind games in FW will move to a whole new level, at the very least.

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I still have to wonder what the hell T3D's were meant for if not to completely obsolete every AF in the game. Did CCP really just say, "**** it," and just decide to toss them in for ***** and giggles, or was there some dev blog explaining their actual intended role that I missed? It's all I tend to hear now is that AF's and many other frigs are dead and T3D's killed them, especially in FW Low.

At the same time, I also have to wonder why simply bringing some of your own T3D's along with to counter there own brethren doesn't work just as well. I can't imagine I'm not the first to suggest that, can I? Maybe it's just me; I have very little PvP from long ago, but nothing recent, so that's very possible.

That said most cruisers in a 1v1 or even 1v2 situaltion will utterly step all over a t3d if you have a decent fit and good skills.

If you specifically fit the cruiser to fight TD3's yeah... ish... some just dont have a chance whatever you do, and most of the time the destroyer can just bug out... and if you fit to foght the T3D's you gimp yourself to everything else...

Youtube is littered with videos of T3Ds curb-stomping cruisers, frigate and really anything under BC solo. In a small gang (2-3), BC and BS don't stand a chance either.

I think the jag needs a major buff in it having an optimal bonus suggesting artillery yet, being unable to meaningfully fullfill that role at all and being too slow to be heavy tackle. The retribution could use a very small like +5pg bonus so that it can still fit a plate with pulse lasers and an MWD without too many fitting mods and a proper glass cannon beam fit.

Outside of those I feel that the lineup really isn't that bad. Harpies are bordering on OP, Hawks are super strong in small gangs, vengeances too, the wolf is pretty decent in dps for a minmatar ship and fits a solid tank, or can kite okay for a ship so slow. The enyo is very strong as a glass cannon and the ishkur has solid versatility.

We have had lots of sweeping changes to the meta when I think only minor changes should be done or we will just see power creep in response to the new ships.

I regularly stomp t3ds and even frig gangs in my BC's. But thats because i fit for max application against smaller ships. Because you know... i might only run into 1 BS during a roam, but run across 30 frigs/t3ds. So im willing to gimp just to put t3ds and command dessies in their place when they try to pounce my drake.

Certainly, when you're specially fit to deal with them, then you can do just that. Not everyone flies around specially fit to deal with them though. And that, really, proves the point. If you have to do special fits just do deal with a specific ship class, it may be time to do a balance pass.