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What's the incentive to PVP?

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Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 81	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:50:54 - [1] - Quote TLDR version: I know that the best reason to PVP is because you like to PVP. But I've always put Eve (and a couple other games) up on a pedestal because I thought their PVP meant something more than a scoreboard at the end of a round, because I thought the PVP had a purpose beyond being entertaining in and of itself, because I thought the PVP was more than just a cyclic point/gear treadmill. Did Eve ever have a bunch of PVP where people fought because their home was on the line, and not just because a handful of interceptors and cruisers came into their space looking to pop some inattentive ratters/miners or looking to goad the opponent into fighting back (but not with too many ships or the wrong kinds of ships!)? Does it still have a bunch of that and I just don't realize it? Does PVP here mean more than it does in any other game's PVP? Or am I just remembering Eve's past through rose-colored glasses in comparison to the WoW I played back in 2006 when I first started playing Eve? Long version: In FPS games you just play match after match, killing the other team and trying not to die so that you can win the round and/or pad your k:d ratio... then when the match is over, you repeat. Ad nauseum. PVP in most other MMOs is basically the same. You queue up for a controlled deathmatch situation in a tiny environment so that you get more winpoints, or you queue up for a controlled deathmatch situation in a bigger environment so that you get more winpoints... then when the match is over, you repeat. Ad nauseum. Usually there's some sort of level-up mechanism where you unlock new weapons or better gear or whatever, all to assist you in not falling behind everyone else who is also doing the same thing in the struggle for more winpoints. It's basically the same thing as themepark PVE, really, where you kill your way through encounters for new gear drops so that you are able to repeat the process in the next cycle of content. The people who do this stuff do it because it's fun for them. A few MMOs seemed to stray quite a ways from this formula for PVP though. EQ's PVP servers, DAOC, Shadowbane, some others. Eve. PVP could very easily mean more than just winpoints. People often did it for more than the fun of the PVP itself. Sure, people roamed around the countryside in DAOC and SB just for good fights, but the real PVP was when someone's home was on the line... when the place where a player parked his characters and their assets, leveled up alts, did PVE... when that place was either going to get taken over by the neighbors or just plain burned to the ground... that's when PVP was great. When people were fighting over something that was hard/impossible to find elsewhere, instead of just for the hell of it. And yeah, Eve was like that too. It still is sometimes, I guess? I don't really know, because the only PVP I've seen in the last few months of nullsec is random interceptors or cruisers coming through in groups of 1-8 trying to kill the one miner/ratter who doesn't warp to the POS when NEAR warns them that an enemy is 3 jumps out. Was it always like that? I feel like it wasn't.... but maybe it's just me viewing the past with rose-tinted glasses? I feel like it used to be more common that people fought for something more than the hell of it. I assume I'll just get people posting here to tell me that since this is a sandbox, it's up to me to make my own meaning behind what I do in it... or that CCP isn't here to cater to my individual desires... or whatever. And I guess those things might be true, which would be unfortunate for my whole "viewing Eve as a game of meaningful PVP, hovering up above all the other MMOs with a halo of light around it because it's just plain better when there's more to PVP than the PVP itself" thing. Oh well.
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 15:12:48 - [2] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: Fun for fun's sake is not enough? Like.. you know... sex, food, drugs, music, sports, etc... http://www.eveonline.com/ "Eve Online. Real Life Science Fiction." When was the last time you read scifi where people fought each other just for ***** and giggles? I'm not saying that fun for fun's sake isn't enough. But CCP doesn't try to sell this game as a "come PVP in Eve because PVP in Eve is fun" ... it tries to sell this game as "come struggle in the vast universe of Eve, where your every move is PVP and you are always doing something meaningful in the biggest sandbox ever!"
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 17:37:21 - [3] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. Why are you guys in THIS game instead of one that gives you more PVP for less overhead if you PVP just for the sake of PVP and/or for the thrill of victory and agony of defeat?
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 17:40:24 - [4] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: greater purposes Heh. I have a reply halfway typed up to someone else in the thread that used these exact words. I know that a lot of preparation and effort can go into Eve PVP. But it just doesn't carry much weight, in my opinion, when the only thing that's on the line is the time you put into preparing for and performing the PVP. When there's no purpose beyond the PVP itself... why aren't we all just playing a FPS instead of a game where we need to plex or otherwise worry about isk in order to do any PVP that's more than rookie ships and civilian modules?
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 17:50:50 - [5] - Quote Amarrchecko wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. Why are you guys in THIS game instead of one that gives you more PVP for less overhead if you PVP just for the sake of PVP and/or for the thrill of victory and agony of defeat? Building on this: Good fights over nothing vs. fighting tooth and nail to avoid being evicted from space you call home. Which one of those are you more likely to fondly look back on 5 years from now? If you answer the former, then hats off to you for having a photographic memory (or perhaps keeping a journal of all your GFs?). If you answer the latter, you're damn right fights that have more on the line than zkillboard stats are more memorable. I wish there was more incentive to have the latter in Eve, short of purposely goading someone into hating you enough that they try to wipe you off the map or trying to wipe someone else off the map just to spawn a war out of it. Regional scarcity of select resources would be great, I figure, in creating more conflict with "greater pupose" ... but that's never going to happen since CCP seems to want the opposite.
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 17:56:21 - [6] - Quote Leila Meurtrier wrote: Amarrchecko wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. Why are you guys in THIS game instead of one that gives you more PVP for less overhead if you PVP just for the sake of PVP and/or for the thrill of victory and agony of defeat? Because in your "pvp" games mentioned there are nothing at stake. It's like "loser washes the cars" type of race, really. Match of CS:GO Alterac Valley Battleground T1 cruiser roam Catalyst ganks I don't see much difference in what is "at stake" in any of these. Maybe I need to move into wormholes.
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:37:56 - [7] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651 OP is a serial troll, kids. Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other.
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:44:02 - [8] - Quote Ah well. I guess maybe I'm just located in the wrong area of the game if I want to find more meaning in my PVP. I also think I'm in love with Jenna
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2016.01.08 01:30:08 - [9] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Amarrchecko wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651 OP is a serial troll, kids. Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other. Choices > consequences. If you don't like being called on whatever it is you do (or have done) then you shouldn't have done it. I expect you'll deliver another 4-5 troll threads to substantiate your serial troll accusation then. It's not like you said "OP has posted a less-than-super-serious thread once or twice, kids."

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