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RoaK Varr
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Posted - 2007.01.22 06:01:00 -
[1]
Are they really that bad a ship? Could it be they are in the gray zone between frigate and cruiser?
IĈm thinking of playing one just for the challenge.
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Yarek Balear
The Initiative
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Posted - 2007.01.22 06:04:00 -
[2]
Most people dislike them because EVE focuses so much attention on tanking these days and Destroyers are paper thin.
They can be extremely effective anti-frig support vessels in fleets though (particularly the Thrasher I believe)...
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.22 06:06:00 -
[3]
Originally by: RoaK Varr Are they really that bad a ship? Could it be they are in the gray zone between frigate and cruiser?
IĈm thinking of playing one just for the challenge.
Mostly because they are a set of skills that do not give a path to a higher level ship. You don't need DD to fly a cruiser, BC, BS, etc.
Are they bad ships? No. They are great for burning through level 1s and carefully through level 2s. They are fragile (less so since Revelations gave them a 67% HP boost) but take good skills to fit full weapon lists. They also have zilch for tanks, you WILL take damage. But they are great for their intended purpose, which is riping through frigates
Their new "niche" is as a dedicated salvaging ship. Nothing works as well as a DD as a salvager, they very high prices you are seeing for them are directly related to how well they do this job.
Basically, if you are runnign level 1s and are interested, buy one. You will use it later for salvaging and looting because your ships for level 2-4 missions are too slow and take too long to loot/salvage with. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
LowSec != NoSec
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Privan Kharolis
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.22 06:37:00 -
[4]
Another problem is many people jump into them too early to fly them effectively. To be effective in, short of medium guns, need the skills to effectively fly a Battlecruiser. High skills in bonuses to hitpoints and anything to help what tank you can fit. Likewise a Gallente or Amarr destroyer needs great capacitor management skills.
So if you try and fly a Destroyer as a upgrade from a Frigate then you're going to suck and hate the thing.
Also you can grab a Tier 2 cruiser and fit it for only an extra million or so over a Destroyer.
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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.22 06:50:00 -
[5]
When someone asks me about Destroyers, 99% of the time, it's a newbie looking to move up from their Frig. These ships do very poorly as a "stepping stone" ship because they require many skills to fly them effectively. Also, they tend to be mostly for PVP.
That said, if you're using them for frig popping, they are great. But, most of the time, people aren't looking for frig popping, but for an intermediate between Frigate and Cruiser.
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Nhoj Sllew
Amarr Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.01.22 07:36:00 -
[6]
they're awesome for stealing killmails
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.22 07:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nhoj Sllew they're awesome for stealing killmails
even intercepter pilots moan about not getting on podmails.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.01.22 08:17:00 -
[8]
They are awesome for popping frigates, but anything else frigates do better... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Sanzorz
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.01.22 09:15:00 -
[9]
Destroyers aren't bad for level 1 missions or some certain level 2. I moved up to Destroyer from frigate, because they have alot more firepower.
Basicly I got my Coercer and bought beam lasers for sniping. It worked very well. 8 sniping guns also allowed me to take on 0.4 rats like cruisers quite early.
Destroyers are also needed to train for Interdictors afaik.
The only thing that prevents me from using pulse lasers on Destroyers is due to their sig radius. --- Currently flying a PvE geared Crusader and Prophecy |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.22 09:41:00 -
[10]
Mainly because this ships are made for uber gankage to frigs but have trouble with bigger stuff because its tank is weak.
Generally i dont fly them,but i do sometimes and i cant complain,its lovely when you can nearly alpha strike a frigate(bar AFs)from 50km+flying a ship that costs 1mil __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. |
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.01.22 09:46:00 -
[11]
The cormorant and thrasher are great ships to have, especially in fleet battles. a cormorant can shoot 90km with amazing tracking, 7 150mms 2 sensor boosters, 2 tracking computers MAPC
these cormorants can instalock most ships, they smash through intys regardless of their speed (90km away) and great for podding people... also usefull for shooting drones off your teamates
Thrasher,similar setup, but fit the 280s, even if you have to fit MAPCs. but fit gyros in the lows when you can this shoots 50km or so, but does a alpha strike of 1000 damage or so, this will instalock and insta pop a shuttle and its pod. also blows away intys, two volleys can take out alot of intys
both amazing ships, and even better to have in a fleet. destroyer gangs are fun, i had 5 destroyers jump brutix and kick its a$$, just remember cormorants and thrashers have enough mid slots to fit tracking disruptors and dampners... fit with autocannons or hybrids with nos, and kill the targets drones first. then the target
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.22 09:46:00 -
[12]
Do a DPS calcualtion on the average interceptor / assault frig, repeat on destroyers and interdictors.
See? that's why people fly them
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Talen Kross
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.01.22 09:54:00 -
[13]
What?! Loads of people love destroyers.
Mr. Crow, meet my associate Mr. (domination-enhanced-tracking) Thrasher.
Expensive? Yes, but not as expensive as a pimped crow, and a snake set.
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Forando
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.22 11:04:00 -
[14]
I loved flying Destroyers as a new player. Sure it was exiting to upgrade ship from a frigate, new gear and more guns! It does allow you to try out new things as a new player and daze through level 1 missions to the point where it actually gets boring. What it lacks in of player interaction in level 1 missions, will be handed to you in level 2 missions; Get ready to manage your cap, have a finger in the repper and..
That said, the destroyer class has some important things against it. Although you have loads of high slots you can fit for damage, the damage you can do is not that big compared to target you are in a destroyer. In other words, your signature radius is HUGE compared to the damage you can do and it will be tricky evade damage. It has low armor and limited capacitor, so if you're using energy or hybrid weapons you.. well, just try to avoid being blood-beamed by vampire since you'll be dry in no time.
In a one vs. one, it will require some fine skill and you'll most likely have to outsmart your opponent if you want to come out on top - The destroyer is no 'I-WIN' button! - but in smaller gangs, it can be a nice asset, particular if you have someone to watch over you with logistic drones or remote reppers. Destroyers are nice to put on drone/frigate duty. And don't forget it's tech II version, the interdictor, which can blow bubbles as a bonus - Everybody just love bubbles!
But if you seek a cheap ship to for some one vs. one PvP, I'd go with a tech 1 frigate with some ok mid/low slot layout over the destoyer, and if you have money in your pocket you could be better off with cruisers.
Enjoy, and fly safe!
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.22 11:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 22/01/2007 11:45:08 Thrasher gang tackler/frig buster fun:
7x200mm AC (emp s/fusion s) 1xsml nos
MWD 7.5km scram Web
Nano (ducks behind flame suit) Gyrostab
Fast with a nice damage output. If you get targeted by something heavy you are dead pretty quickly...but as long as you get in under the targets guns rippity rip
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Mar vel
Caldari H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:04:00 -
[16]
Um,, b/c they have they have no sig radius bonus to protect them.
Destroyers die almost instantly to everything @ cruiser level and above, and everyone knows it.
Want to increase the use and effectiveness of a Destoryer:
Drop the sig radius to somewhere between that of an Inty and an AF, and give them a solid tank.
Now they become incredibly useful.
Otherwise - they're the kind of ship that your gang/fleet would show up with two dozen of and expect to fly home with 2.
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Benco97
Gallente Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:13:00 -
[17]
I don't know where this "Destroyers automagically die against cruisers" mentality is coming from, a destroyer CAN kill a cruiser you just have to be careful, it wouldn't exactly be fair for the price if Dessies could own cruisers. They are not a stepping stone from frigs to cruisers though, so I guess they get bad reputation from the newbies jumping in them.. I love mine, it's fun and exciting to fly, i've never seen the fun in sitting there with a tank so thick your enemies just get bored and go home.
"MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum |
Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 22/01/2007 19:11:46 Use it in a gang and stick near someone with a medium remote repper and all your tanking problems bite the dust, just treat yourself as a mobile 8 small turrent platform assigned to the person with the remote repper and focus on resist(no repper) and simply protect from frigates/drones.
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Harotak
Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:15:00 -
[19]
They are alot of fun and can be effective in groups. I wish CCP would move a couple highslots down to mid/low and ditch the rate of fire penalty though. Would make it easier to fit a plate/extender and a hardner for a bit of a tank without losing any dps, only alphastrike.
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Deva Blackfire
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Benco97 I don't know where this "Destroyers automagically die against cruisers" mentality is coming from, a destroyer CAN kill a cruiser you just have to be careful, it wouldn't exactly be fair for the price if Dessies could own cruisers.
Only if you are attacking mining/noob pilot cruiser. ANY pvp fit cruiser WILL kill destroyer. You have sig almost as large as cruiser, you are almost as slow as cruiser. His guns can track you no problem, and then... you deal less damage and have less armor/resists than average mr cruiser.
Also - try attacking NPCing caracal with t1 heavy missiles in dessy. 3 salvos and bye bye - not sure if you will even get to half of his shields...
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Nicholai Thomasovich
Caldari Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:40:00 -
[21]
As mentioned before, the lack of real firepower, lack of any tank, lack of speed, and terrible sig radius really kill the destroyers. Handy for Level Is and Salvaging, and that's about it. Pretty much anything a destroyer can do, a frigate can do better.
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Lidana
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:18:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lidana on 22/01/2007 20:15:27 As a note, one of the devs mentioned in a thread reasonably recently that destroyers were meant to have a signiture radius nearer that of a frigate than a cruiser. So you never know in Revelations 1.Soon you might even get a change
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:25:00 -
[23]
Destroyers are pretty niche. Big enough to die to anything with real firepower, small enough to not do a particularly impressive amount of damage.
It's not that they're _bad_ exactly, it's just if you're flying one, you'd probably be better off in another ship, either a cruiser or a frigate.
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Havok Pierce
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.23 09:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Their new "niche" is as a dedicated salvaging ship. Nothing works as well as a DD as a salvager, they very high prices you are seeing for them are directly related to how well they do this job.
Destroyers are nice for salvaging (if only because you can stack so many salvagers on it), but they lack cargo capacity, which becomes more important when 0.0 salvaging.
Enter the Exequeror. Salvaging has given this ugly workhorse a new lease on life, with its (with cruiser 4) stock 840m3 cargo space, which is easily bumped to 1Km3! Start with your preference of salvagers to tractor beams (2/2 works well for me) Follow it up with a minor shieldtank (2 large shield extenders + 1 resist) and a 10MN MWD, and your choice of lowslots (I prefer 1 nano/Istab, 1 expanded cargohold, 1 damage control). Accelerates decently, 5k+ shield HP means it'll take a few hits before you need to warp out.
The spacious cargobays also mean that you'll be able to go longer when salvaging (especially when snagging 0.0 battleship cans, which are usually chock full of stuff). With a destroyer, you'd best have a secure can very close at hand (such as the same belt), whereas the exe will be able to salvage through 5-10 battleship wrecks w/o issue.
With MWDing to each wreck and salvaging 4, I can usually get the wreck salvaged before I leave range. I then touch the MWDs to give myself a boost to the next wreck.
Honestly, try this ship out if you can for salvaging instead of the common destroyer.
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Havok Pierce
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.23 09:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Lyrus Destroyers are pretty niche. Big enough to die to anything with real firepower, small enough to not do a particularly impressive amount of damage.
It's not that they're _bad_ exactly, it's just if you're flying one, you'd probably be better off in another ship, either a cruiser or a frigate.
T2-fitted Thrashers deal some sick damage, btw. I was on the recieving end of one of those x.x
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:24:00 -
[26]
It's long range and superb tracking (it has both an inherent range bonus AND a tracking bonus, neat) means that the destroyer is an excellent weapon against frigates, drones and pods. I've seen corps use it (with excellent effect) as a support vessel for cruisers and battleships (the Trasher seems to be the most common destroyer in this role due to it's large alpha and good number of mids). However destroyers are not all that useful for mission-running and ratting. Good for level 1s, but the only mission where they really outpreform regular frigates is Worlds Collide.
Just: a. Try to draw as little attention as possible. b. Keep it aligned and ready to warp off.
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Freyda
Gallente Ships of fools
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Posted - 2007.01.23 21:09:00 -
[27]
The best destoryer pilot I ever saw, used to jump in 5-10 seconds after his gang mates at 70 km. With T2 rails and high skills he sniped the heck out of the enemy inties and af's. It worked well time and time again.
As a frigate sniper it is a truelly awesome platform. But that's about the only decent pvp use I have seen for one. You need really good skills to use it as that too, as well as gang mates that understand how to fit you into their tactics. Sadly few gangs think outside the box, so if it can't gank and tank they never really bother with them.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband Phoenix Supremacy
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Posted - 2007.01.23 21:27:00 -
[28]
The ability to fly an Interdictor will make you *incredibly* useful to 0.0 Alliances.
If you can fly a Dictor and not do much else, they'll still love you, and a good Alliance will provided you with what you need for free/very low cost for their operations.
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Galen Silas
Gallente Mean Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.24 16:02:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Galen Silas on 24/01/2007 16:00:04 Dessy's are very ncie ships, I will admot there more effective in a bigger gang, Dessy's mized with tackling frigs is nice. For instance my gang consisted of 3x Thrashers 2x Catalysts 1x cormorant, merlin, rifter we locked a deimos down at a stargate we camped waiting... we went through him as if he had nothing for a tank at all, he didnt have time to get even one rep off there was so much dps on him.
In order for destroyers to be useful theyd o need to be setup right, there better when they have tacklers with them so they can use there mid slots for something other than webby jammer, for instance a good midslot combo for the catalyst is a 1mn AB and Tracking Distruptor II. While your highs are loaded with light neutron II's put a tank in your lows or all damage mods. There is a wide range of possibilities but even against a cruiser or two, an experienced Dessy squad can ruin them.
Dessies aren't dead, most people are just to familiar to one style of fighting, that they instantly assume a destroyer is qualified for it, when they are a specialized boat, usually for fleets.
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Ominus Decre
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.01.24 16:18:00 -
[30]
I have been playing about 13-14 months now and the Coercer is my primary ship.
The Coercer can easily solo 3/10 complexes, ratting in a 0.1 system and lvl 2 missions. With great care you can also solo in 4/10 plexes. In 0.0 you'll struggle to find a comparable tank which matches a respectable damage output to break the tank on RAT bs's.
PaPer thin? Is 3600 armor paper thin? I don't use that set up for PvE although it's easily otainable for anti-frig warfare in fleet ops.
My preference is something like: 7 Medium Pulse II's (scorch) / 1 nos AB II 400mm rolled plate / small armor rep II
Destroyers require good skills to allow their worth to fully materialize.
The riggings give them an incredible upper hand although due to the cost of a rig it is next to stupid to put something like it on anything cheaper then 100m chasis.
400dps is easy to obtain in a Coercer with the appropriate skills and fittings. :)
PvP, ditch the AB and fit a web to the Coercer. The Coercer is primarily a support ship and not a lone-gun.
(too bad EON hasn't had any decent write up's on ship types - hopefully someone who's compotent will pick up where the last idiot failed)
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