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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:34:00 -
[31]
Does the e-war immunity include immunity to NOS? If so, they're grossly overpowered. If not, only a bit.
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Phish1
Liberty Forces
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:43:00 -
[32]
uh, shuttle fleet do drop cans =P
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Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:52:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
Does the e-war immunity include immunity to NOS? If so, they're grossly overpowered. If not, only a bit.
Nope.
Jamming & Logoffski |
Helen
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:02:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Helen on 22/01/2007 15:59:47
Speaking on the otherside of this debate, there is currently no good reason to commit carriers to battle in the front line.
If MS and Titans get nerfed so they can get sensor damped then its pointless using those in front line combat too for the most part.
Other things need fixing first, and to be honest a MS still has trouble locking a BS within 10 seconds anyway so how is that a problem in low sec unless he's got buddies?
Also Ryysa make your own sig.
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Helen
Edited by: Helen on 22/01/2007 15:59:47
Speaking on the otherside of this debate, there is currently no good reason to commit carriers to battle in the front line.
If MS and Titans get nerfed so they can get sensor damped then its pointless using those in front line combat too for the most part.
Other things need fixing first, and to be honest a MS still has trouble locking a BS within 10 seconds anyway so how is that a problem in low sec unless he's got buddies?
Also Ryysa make your own sig.
Well as far as i know your carrier bonus's (fighters skill etc) don't apply to fighters while they are assigned so that's a pretty big reason to use the carrier in the front line. also the remote boosting modules are pretty awesome if used right in medium sized engagements.
Also from what i've heard cyvok was 40 something au away from any celestial objects in a semi deep safespot. are you saying he ctd's while at this safe?
no real official statement has been made about the situation though
DE
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Helen
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:30:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Helen on 22/01/2007 16:27:39
I've got no idea what happened to CYVOK I've heard far too many different stories and to be honest I don't care anymore.
As for frontlining carriers "use a Thanatos it gets fighter bonuses" its negated when a Arazu/Lachesis/Celestis or even a fricking Tristan can shut it down unable to lock anything with 2km and even then taking over 2mins.
The only time most people frontline carriers is when they are already winning. At the moment the best part of MS and Titans is that you can wield them in the frontlines without being sat like a sitting duck thanks to a 5mil isk cruiser. And thats the way it should be most MS cost 25bil add in the typical officer/faction modules and its easily over 30 BILLION ISK.
Why should they be negated by a a bloody cruiser, and yes I've been on the otherside fighting a MS I still think you need balls to bring a MS into battle without scouts.
Respect to Hegemon Rast.
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Cividari
Caldari
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: DarkElf
and i don't see the problem. if ur engaging a titan u leave a dictor or 2 in the next system. he fires doomsday device, u jump in spare dictor, he can't use doomsday again for like an hour.
Thing is, if the titan fires its DD it removes everything from the grid that could stop him from warping (can DDs destroy large bubbles?) if he then instantly hits warp it doesnt matter if a dictor jumps in and bubbles him since it wont stop him from warping.
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Mar vel
Caldari
H.Y.D.R.A.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:43:00 -
[38]
orly?
We've seen the LV Titan / Mothership combo on several occasions now, conveniently jumping into the heart of our Region - finger on the DD trigger and all that.
In order to defend against a Titan, one would have to be prepared AND ready to assault it, b/c it would take 2 waves of a significant number of pilots to even consider engaging it - given that the first wave would be toasted by the DD weapon.....and that's not even considering the Mothership and the support vessels (read: fleet).
And at the end of the day, while we're throwing billions of isk in ships, kit and clones at the Titan (and losing, I might add) - he can conveniently Jump pretty much anywhere provided he has the cap. A full rack of Chelms and some injectors + Capital Energy Xfer from the MS means VERY little risk provided the two ships support each other.
And that's not even taking into account the Titan's other weapons arrays.
As soon as pilots start experimenting and understand the total pwnage power involved in this ship, you're going to see a lot of unhappy people who have been doomsdayed / fighter'd into utter submission.
As things stood we just let them quietly sit there and purposefully did not engage - i mean, really, what's the point?
The same equation that makes using long-range conbat (Caldari) ships useless in PvP applies to the general combat effectiveness of Capital ships - if you cannot make them *stay* then there is no possibility of killing them. As long as the Titan can keep his Cap above 70%, the pilot can afford to take some serious risks.
Originally by: Auman
It's not impossible to kill just incredibly difficult. The DD is a one shot weapon that is very easy to avoid. The real problem is when they stay at a POS and just pop out to fire through a cyno.
The titans greatest strengths isn't in it's DD but the other abilities it has. So as an offensive weapon it's nice but not on a 100bil scale - certainly not in a single fight.
At the end of the day the community has been asking for Titans since Eve went live. They are a massive epeen and the ultimate status symbol.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Karjala Inc.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:51:00 -
[39]
Titans are needed for endgame. The sad truth is that while there's not real endgame in EVE, people always form such by their own and the most popular one is agreed as the ultimate endgame. In EVE terms the "I Win Button" is the most popular endgame which currently means either of these two:
1) owning several T2 BPO:s (or a huge pile of ISK, these two walk hand by hand usually though)
2) owning the biggest, baddest, strongest, most OMGWTFBBQ ship in game.
Titans are for the second option. Now the option is of course that if everyone flies the BBQWagon it doesn't feel special and as such you need something even bigger to satisfy the old players who have already seen everything and can fly just about anything and can do just about anything. In the very simplest form of all, Titans are the fabled Sword of Imbalance +2 which will be eventually followed by Sword of Imbalance +3.
Oh and IMO all capitals beyond freighters are useless because they don't add any real extra value to the game but that's just me.
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:56:00 -
[40]
tbh I'd rather have a nyx then a titan I've seen that thing instapop heavy tanked BS it's crazy
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:08:00 -
[41]
The real problem is that titans can jump while inside bubbles.
If it wasn't for this, you'd theoretically be able to bump one inside a large mobile warp disruptor and kill it.
As it stands now, there is no way to kill it unless you already have its cap sucked dry before you bump it into a bubble.
shamis
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:52:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 22/01/2007 19:50:00
Logging out in a Titan or Mothership and sucessfully getting away should be grounds for CCP to investigate and if they determine it was done intentionally simply delete the enite ship and everything inside it without compensation to the owners.
Its not like there ever will be a ton of titans and motherships so investigationg each report should not be a burden to CCP and all they have to do is catch one person doing it and most people would not want to risk throwing 100bill away.
Also the portal created by a jump drive should remain open by default for a small amount of time for anyone to pass through so that a fleet can follow a Titan if they want too. There should also be a little bit of lag time between jumping and being able to warp so that it is atleast possible to move a dictor through and launch a probe.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 22/01/2007 19:50:00
Logging out in a Titan or Mothership and sucessfully getting away should be grounds for CCP to investigate and if they determine it was done intentionally simply delete the enite ship and everything inside it without compensation to the owners.
Its not like there ever will be a ton of titans and motherships so investigationg each report should not be a burden to CCP and all they have to do is catch one person doing it and most people would not want to risk throwing 100bill away.
Also the portal created by a jump drive should remain open by default for a small amount of time for anyone to pass through so that a fleet can follow a Titan if they want too. There should also be a little bit of lag time between jumping and being able to warp so that it is atleast possible to move a dictor through and launch a probe.
CCP won't do a damn thing about loggers. And there is no way for them to tell if a player just umnplugs his cable, when will you people get that?
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Evengard
Solar Dragons
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:13:00 -
[44]
Trying to bumb it ?? No nano BS / cap ship can get to it from 40-50km distance. With just abit other actions: Warp in, start aligning to POS, Fire DD, Warp to pos...
YNeed at least 10-15 seconds to Jump to system, get it loaded, start approach, get max speed. And Nano-BS not getting top speed instantly (let is be 7300m/s (hello to Ryysa)). He won't be there...
And you ever tryed to bump ship, to 40-50km distance to exact point??? Pilots are not idiots to warp directly into bubble, he just warp to cov.ops 60-70 km from that bubble.
And mainly question is not about Titan existance, but about it's immunity.
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Recon and Intercept |
Boonaki
Caldari
Suffoco Noctis
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:42:00 -
[45]
What I'm waiting for is the day some alliance has 2 titans. Set off the doomsday, eject from one and get in the other. Then fry a whole fleet that thinks the doomsday has been used, and gets a shock.
Not that I think anyone would actually eject from a titan.
Fear the Ibis of doom!
113 |
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:49:00 -
[46]
If they are so overpowered then go build one.
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Alexi Johns
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Posted - 2007.01.22 21:05:00 -
[47]
the only reason CCP added doomsday was cause of blob, imho a cheap solution to the engine not dealing.
i feel each titan should have a special race specific item to replace the dd and lrg dmg bonuses to hit other caps with main guns aka siege mode on guns 24/7 without drawbacks
example after thinking about it for 2 seconds
minmatar - special cyno mod to allow fast fleet movement or much longer jump range
ammar - uber dmg mod for pwning caps with main laser
caldari - crazy aoe ecm bomb
gallente - fighter bay mod to give ms style abilitys/larger ship hanger
this would be far more intresting than the I WIN button, but i would say until CCP fix blob we will have to deal will doomsdays unless u want node crashes everytime the major alliances have at it.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.22 21:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Evengard
Trying to bumb it ?? No nano BS / cap ship can get to it from 40-50km distance. With just abit other actions: Warp in, start aligning to POS, Fire DD, Warp to pos...
YNeed at least 10-15 seconds to Jump to system, get it loaded, start approach, get max speed. And Nano-BS not getting top speed instantly (let is be 7300m/s (hello to Ryysa)). He won't be there...
And you ever tryed to bump ship, to 40-50km distance to exact point??? Pilots are not idiots to warp directly into bubble, he just warp to cov.ops 60-70 km from that bubble.
And mainly question is not about Titan existance, but about it's immunity.
Regardless, once you get him in the bubble, you still can't really kill him.
Chowdown sat in the middle of a large mobile warp disruptor in our home system 2 nights ago. Once we started attacking him he just jumped out of system.
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Gant Stryker
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:11:00 -
[49]
The titans are awesome strategic resources, but hardly the end all of fleet combat as we know it.
I fought with and against Titans in ASCN/BoB war in a number of ships. It is not too hard to make a BS able to survive a Titan blast, with a bit more effort to survive two simultaneously. I have even set up a Ferox able to survive one blast without gimping its setup. Evaded Titan blast many times in small fast ships just by being aligned and at speed when it showed on overview (theres a delay when firing it through a cyno that makes it even easier to escape.
Now that isn't to say they can't be highly effective in several phases of war. Station and gate camps are great uses. Preventing/hurting support fleets from protecting/attacking at Pos battles. Jumping whole fleets at a time.
You definately had to change your tactics when one (or two) were on the battlefield but it didn't end many fights.
I would be so bold as to say the Titans didn't remarkably effect the ASCN/BoB war, except for the fact that Cyvok bailed on the alliance when he lost his, effectively creating a massive vaccuum in leadership.
Now get 2-3 on a side and things could get a bit hairy, especially for support fleets.
[url=http://killboard.intrepidcrossing.org/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=50]
[/url] |
Ebodhisatva
Gallente
hunter killers
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Posted - 2007.01.24 11:45:00 -
[50]
Here's a link how to kill a Titan:
'LeMonde's how to kill a titan with 20 people'
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Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, you will not be counting days, or months, or years but milleniums in |
Stormhold
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.24 11:59:00 -
[51]
Titans are expensive and hard to build - they need to be in pos and the hauling is a sick process.
They need to be powerul, but I have to agree. They are a bit stupid at the moment and need to find a better way to fulfil their role.
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Arvald
Caldari
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.01.25 11:01:00 -
[52]
in my opinin titans are useless unless they are being commanded by a stratigic genius simply having a titan acompnyed by a big fleet isnt enough though ive never came face to face with one
=-=-=-=-==-==-==-=-=-===-=-=-=-=====-=-==-=-you killed my men, wrecked my land, and you ruind our lives, im in command and youll die by my hand forever your condemed, in flames youll burn |
Mogrin
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Posted - 2007.03.28 05:37:00 -
[53]
titans are broken
that is all
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2007.03.28 06:44:00 -
[54]
Why attack Titan with BS only? That's like attacking a BS with T1 frigs. What are Dreadnoughts/Cariers/Motherships for? For the cost of Titan a lot of these can be built and they don't get hurt much by DD.
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smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.03.28 08:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ebodhisatva
Here's a link how to kill a Titan:
'LeMonde's how to kill a titan with 20 people'
You'd think this would be obvious
On the other hand, you need to kill off his fleet too, which might take slightly longer, at which point the titan jumps out. If you're prepared to sacrifice all your cap ships tho I guess you could kill a titan with 20 ships before your side died.
sgb
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.03.28 09:04:00 -
[56]
Originally by: James Duar
Titans are very different to battleships. There is no conceivable way 1 pilot can ever really have enough ISK to have a Titan except by a massive scam. They also need a POS network to build it, logistics network to move the parts and at least a 2nd account for cynos (or other players). They need fuel to move it, it has the shortest jump range of any capital...
The point is, Titan's are something special.
I do acknowledge though, that CCP need to give some thought to how ships with EW immunity are supposed to be caught and killed. It will be lame if the next Titan kill is also lag/CTRL+Q related in it's death.
false, in eve anything is possible for a single pilot.
2 years playing 90bils assets.
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.03.28 09:12:00 -
[57]
one more point.. the day you get a titan.. or get into a fight with a titan will be the day you relise that ship deserves everything it's got.
it is a mobile station.. capable of defending itself.
when you spend 160bil on a ship i think you should rightly be able to decide when to fight and when not to fight.
this is a whine that basicly comes down to " he has one of those.. i want one of those too! it's not fair!"
notice pilots who can fly titans have played eve for a very long time.. and they have an alliance to back them.. its the ultimate investment to make.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.28 10:13:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tista
one more point.. the day you get a titan.. or get into a fight with a titan will be the day you relise that ship deserves everything it's got.
it is a mobile station.. capable of defending itself.
when you spend 160bil on a ship i think you should rightly be able to decide when to fight and when not to fight.
this is a whine that basicly comes down to " he has one of those.. i want one of those too! it's not fair!"
notice pilots who can fly titans have played eve for a very long time.. and they have an alliance to back them.. its the ultimate investment to make.
so you are saying that the right of 1 (ok.. lets be more precise.. 5 persons) to have fun is more important than the right of 5000 persons to have fun?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
wierchas noobhunter
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.28 10:15:00 -
[59]
do man rely need ***** ?
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.03.28 11:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Tista
one more point.. the day you get a titan.. or get into a fight with a titan will be the day you relise that ship deserves everything it's got.
it is a mobile station.. capable of defending itself.
when you spend 160bil on a ship i think you should rightly be able to decide when to fight and when not to fight.
this is a whine that basicly comes down to " he has one of those.. i want one of those too! it's not fair!"
notice pilots who can fly titans have played eve for a very long time.. and they have an alliance to back them.. its the ultimate investment to make.
so you are saying that the right of 1 (ok.. lets be more precise.. 5 persons) to have fun is more important than the right of 5000 persons to have fun?
no. he is saying, that the right of all the people who like to have goals and finally accomplish them is weighting more than the right of a handfull whiners who can't accomplish their goals.
Today you nerf titans because 500 people dont like em and 5 people do.
Tomorrow you nerf capitals because 5000 people dont like em and 500 people do.
The day after that you nerf Battleships cause all the noobs dont like em and only the vets who can fit em well like em.
The next day you nerf bpos and ship building cause PvP got shafted to oblivion and all the PvPers envie they industrialists.
And on the last day you nerv the civilian blaster/ac/laser cause you can actually damage your fellow eve-player's rooky-ship with it!
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