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Do we really need these Titans ??

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Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:46:00 - [1] I want to discuss Titans. Now actually these ships are impossible to kill. ASCN titan kill was really an accident. Then he got crashed with agro timer on. Now i discribe use of them. Titan warp to enemy fleet, fires Doomsday. Kill all except tanked to hell Battleships. This includes and Warp disrupt probes and interdictors. And immideadly after doomsday activation starting to warp. The only thing that can stop in - Warp Probe, but they are getting destroyed, and there is no point in putting other once ships warp drive activated. So we getting ship that cannot really be killed in combat. To balance it there must be a way to prevent ships warp. So, solution is droped probes must deactivate ships warp drive. Or give interdictors racial enemy immunity to Doomsday. Maybe some other ideas on balancing this?? ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Boonaki Caldari Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:48:00 - [2] 100 bil ship, sounds about right if you ask me. Fear the Ibis of doom! 113
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:50:00 - [3] Since when is the cost of a ship a balance reason to be nearly-invincible? Should Battleships be immune to frig packs? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:58:00 - [4] Titans are very different to battleships. There is no conceivable way 1 pilot can ever really have enough ISK to have a Titan except by a massive scam. They also need a POS network to build it, logistics network to move the parts and at least a 2nd account for cynos (or other players). They need fuel to move it, it has the shortest jump range of any capital... The point is, Titan's are something special. I do acknowledge though, that CCP need to give some thought to how ships with EW immunity are supposed to be caught and killed. It will be lame if the next Titan kill is also lag/CTRL+Q related in it's death.
jernej Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:03:00 - [5] Hmmm, so Titans can't be used for plexing... ps Sorry, couldn't resist -- Plz sign my thread
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:05:00 - [6] Hell even to keep that ship u need strong alliance or simply pos with ur titan will go puff since u cannot dock it. And dont bring cyvok "accident" here, logging off with aggro timer is not smart, especialy on titan :P. ----------------- Flamedrone II belonging to Valandril perfectly strikes you, wrecking your topic.
Miss KillSome	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:06:00 - [7] flying slow ass ship myself, i've been pulled out of warp when somebody scramed me alot of times..i dont see a problem.. In the time that i align to warp point, if somebody puts a point on u, u stop warping.. or did i missed smth?
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:06:00 - [8] It's not impossible to kill just incredibly difficult. The DD is a one shot weapon that is very easy to avoid. The real problem is when they stay at a POS and just pop out to fire through a cyno. The titans greatest strengths isn't in it's DD but the other abilities it has. So as an offensive weapon it's nice but not on a 100bil scale - certainly not in a single fight. At the end of the day the community has been asking for Titans since Eve went live. They are a massive epeen and the ultimate status symbol.
Dr CapitalShip Caldari Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Evengard I want to discuss Titans. Now actually these ships are impossible to kill. ASCN titan kill was really an accident. Then he got crashed with agro timer on. He did not crash. he logged with aggro timer on. If you dont know aggro rules, then you should not be flying a Titan in the first place.
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:15:00 - [10] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 22/01/2007 11:11:19 Originally by: Evengard I want to discuss Titans. Now actually these ships are impossible to kill. ASCN titan kill was really an accident. Then he got crashed with agro timer on. Now i discribe use of them. Titan warp to enemy fleet, fires Doomsday. Kill all except tanked to hell Battleships. This includes and Warp disrupt probes and interdictors. And immideadly after doomsday activation starting to warp. The only thing that can stop in - Warp Probe, but they are getting destroyed, and there is no point in putting other once ships warp drive activated. So we getting ship that cannot really be killed in combat. To balance it there must be a way to prevent ships warp. So, solution is droped probes must deactivate ships warp drive. Or give interdictors racial enemy immunity to Doomsday. Maybe some other ideas on balancing this?? Chowdown been annoying you with "jump in enemy gatecamp after dictors launch bubbles and fire DD, then get away scot free" ? -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:27:00 - [11] Titans are more of a cold war weapon. Arms race and stuff. Very fun i think. Like in re-ww2 when each nation was trying to discovver if and how many heavy BB the other nation had. Also costeinnefective to hell. Same same effort and isk and you can have a HUGE fleet of carriers and dreadnaughts that will be even more dangerous.. ya know.. its much easier to a void a titan.. than to avoid 20 (and i am being very conservative here) carriers :P If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Rachen Mysuna Brotherhood of Polar Equation	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:27:00 - [12] Edited by: Rachen Mysuna on 22/01/2007 11:24:10 removed some flammable text
Electric Cucumber Amarr Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Miss KillSome flying slow ass ship myself, i've been pulled out of warp when somebody scramed me alot of times..i dont see a problem.. In the time that i align to warp point, if somebody puts a point on u, u stop warping.. or did i missed smth? you can't scramble a titan
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Miss KillSome flying slow ass ship myself, i've been pulled out of warp when somebody scramed me alot of times..i dont see a problem.. In the time that i align to warp point, if somebody puts a point on u, u stop warping.. or did i missed smth? yes yuo did. you can't scramble a titan. immune to ew and i don't see the problem. if ur engaging a titan u leave a dictor or 2 in the next system. he fires doomsday device, u jump in spare dictor, he can't use doomsday again for like an hour. it's such an expensive ship that you should have to emply super tactics to kill it. DE
Cilppiz FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:33:00 - [15] As far as I know one doesnt need to warp titan anywhere to use DD. Just align inside friendly POS to other POS, wait until you are outside FF, give cynoship order to warp in next to hostile fleet and active cyno, blast dd trough cyno and after that I guess theres no timers preventing Titan to warp other friendly POS he has been aligned for right away (or you just fly back inside POS your next to)... Perfect antiblob weapon since one Probe can clear full scale gatecamp. And in some cases DD is not even needed, its enough to jump in gate and activate cyno and see hostile flee in panic
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:48:00 - [16] It's not very well balanced yet, the real problems will be obvious when you will see 4-6 titan in a siege, at least 2 per side, then eve alliance warfare will just be about who has the most dreads in its fleet. Though the only reason Titans are overpowered at the moment is lag, without lag, they'd be ok.
Bosjathfort Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:06:00 - [17] Edited by: Bosjathfort on 22/01/2007 12:04:16 Hmmm, I got killed 3 times by the titan, and 2 of them were because of the "Officer smartbooms" :P IMO, Titan is a strategical weapon because it can create a jump gate which will transport your entire fleet directly to the rally point, also a symbol of the strength of a Large alliance (manpower, cost to build it etc). \\(^O^ )// o/ \o !!null
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:12:00 - [18] I'd still like to have venal, curse, domain bookmark sets, can you help me? -------- What is local devoid of smack?
Ebodhisatva Gallente hunter killers	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:10:00 - [19] IIRC CCP is developing or designing a way to do damage to modules on a targeted ship, so that will bring some solutions with it, I wouldn't mind that a Titan is EW invulnerable, if it has no jumpdrive left, it won't go anywhere but left to shoot ------------------- Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, you will not be counting days, or months, or years but milleniums in
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:15:00 - [20] Tried bumping? 'tis quite effective against Titans. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Rustimon Polar Bear Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:20:00 - [21] If blowing up entire fleets with the push of a single button is wrong, then I don't want to be right. - Oveur
Grimpak Gallente Twisted Attitude Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Dr CapitalShip Originally by: Evengard I want to discuss Titans. Now actually these ships are impossible to kill. ASCN titan kill was really an accident. Then he got crashed with agro timer on. He did not crash. he logged with aggro timer on. If you dont know aggro rules, then you should not be flying a Titan in the first place. even if he was not aggro'ed, the new probes could scan him in less than 2 minutes, wich is the regular non-aggro'ed logoff timer. ship finds him, and starts shooting him -> gets aggro'ed -> 15minutes. might not be what happened with the titan, but I've seen solid proof of it happening widely. just talk to FowlPlayChicken or whoever posted that thread about it. ------- Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:25:00 - [23] Well, I agree about Titan and moms being a bit too difficult to catch ... Maybe instead of total immunity, a stupidly high warp strength (talking about 50-100 here) and introduce a capital warp scrambler with comparable strength (maybe make it so that you need a couple of cap ships to hold it) And yes, it means that 100 ships with regular 1 pt will be able to hold down a titan, but I don't see it as a problem ... Thinking about it, introducing inherent warp resistance to other cap ships would be nice, it's a bit stupid to see a single frig holding even a carrier. Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:25:00 - [24] Originally by: James Duar Titans are very different to battleships. There is no conceivable way 1 pilot can ever really have enough ISK to have a Titan except by a massive scam. They also need a POS network to build it, logistics network to move the parts and at least a 2nd account for cynos (or other players). They need fuel to move it, it has the shortest jump range of any capital... Are u sure? There are people who have several t2 bpos, bought all by themselves with hard work and entrepreneurial mind. U sell those and u're good :)
Quarantine 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Grimpak even if he was not aggro'ed, the new probes could scan him in less than 2 minutes, wich is the regular non-aggro'ed logoff timer. ship finds him, and starts shooting him -> gets aggro'ed -> 15minutes. might not be what happened with the titan, but I've seen solid proof of it happening widely. You don't get aggression timer after you've logged - that's why people logging out in bubbles are so damn annoying. I've been told shooting wrecks will however give you an aggression timer once you log back in again, but I haven't tested that yet. What happened to the Titan was that he logged 14 mins or so after his last aggression, assuming that he will disappear in a minute. The way aggression timer works however you stay in space for another 15 minutes, not just the time until aggression timer would've run out.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:38:00 - [26] I think the way to lay the higher tier capital ship argument to rest is simpily to give the titan and mothership very high warp strengths. Say 30 points to hold down a titan, 20 for a motherships perhaps. It isn't perfect but being practically invulnerable as they are is ridiculous. The low-sec mothership gate camp thing is gobsmackingly easy to get away with. Why can't CCP see this? As it stands probably the best way to hold one down in 0.0 is to spend 3 minutes deploying a large mobile bubble on their position. I mean that says it all doesn't it....
TitusFlamininus Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:48:00 - [27] A titan is a very powerfull strategic tool in the hands of a fleet of skilled pilots. It makes life for the OPFOR much harder. The truely annoying thing about a titan (and motherships, too) is its EW immunity. One simply can't hold it in place long enough to kill it. So unless the titan/mothership does something stupid before going AFK, they can't be destroyed. The only way to hold it in place is a) bump it away from alignment for warping b) sucking its cap empty to prevent a cyno-out AFAIK a nanophoon can't bump a titan, so you'd need a nanoed cap ship to do it And cap sucking is in practice nearly impossible since any somewhat competent titan/mothership pilot will have an emergency cyno available.
Deva Blackfire Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:55:00 - [28] Wait till every 30+ man corp has a mothership. Then maybe CCP will do sth abt it. Atm - just evade mommys and titans.
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 14:13:00 - [29] Originally by: TitusFlamininus AFAIK a nanophoon can't bump a titan, so you'd need a nanoed cap ship to do it And cap sucking is in practice nearly impossible since any somewhat competent titan/mothership pilot will have an emergency cyno available. Battleships can bump titans quite nicely. You'll need cap ships to do the dps to kill it though.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.22 14:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Dr CapitalShip Originally by: Evengard I want to discuss Titans. Now actually these ships are impossible to kill. ASCN titan kill was really an accident. Then he got crashed with agro timer on. He did not crash. he logged with aggro timer on. If you dont know aggro rules, then you should not be flying a Titan in the first place. No he didn't. He CTD and they probed him fast enought. Had he logged his tank would be on and he would not have stayed there, he could have warped to a POS. You're misinformed. Click on my sig to read it !

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