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"That" time of year again.

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Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 17:56:48 - [301] - Quote Tippia wrote: Quote: Again, talk to people. Yes, please do so ... "No u" We have devolved to this point. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Violence of Action. 847	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:05:21 - [302] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tippia wrote: Quote: Again, talk to people. Yes, please do so ... "No u" We have devolved to this point. You mean that after Tippia presented the numbers we have, and how the most conservative assumption results in the best guess that hi-sec is a minority, and you have supplied no evidence whatsoever to bolster your claims, that you and Tippia are equally at fault? One side, yours, made a lot of claims. Most of them are unsubstantiated thus far. The rest have been debunked. I get why you want the rest of us to look for evidence for your claims (Because we're not stupid, so it might actually be evidence for it, and not anecdotes against it), but that is simply not how debates or burdens of proof works. You made a series of claims. You're unable to back them up with any evidence. You ask us to provide evidence for you. Can you see why that position was untenable? But I'll accept Quote: So, take that as me having no proof and rejoice. as your admission of defeat and guilt. Personally, I forgive you. Just don't do it next time.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26822	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:10:40 - [303] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: "No u" We have devolved to this point. No. We're simply asking you to provide something to actually support your stance GÇö something that's been pretty much consistent throughout the entire thread. What we've done is systematically prove you wrong on everything. You keep presenting GÇ£evidenceGÇ¥ that proves you wrong. In face of this evidence, you keep saying the same thing, at which point we say that you're wrong. You then ask us to prove it, in some failed attempt at an onus probandi fallacy, except that we also don't need to prove you wrong because you've already done so. You then try to blame your failure on us, when it was in large part you who did it to yourself. It's not a GÇ£no, youGÇ¥; it's GÇ£so you keep saying; prove itGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:12:00 - [304] - Quote Gêà -> u. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26823	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:25:16 - [305] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I decline, for now and all eternity. Then you also need to stop making spurious claims. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Violence of Action. 847	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:26:27 - [306] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Alphea wrote: G¼ñ Gêà -> u. Yes, and it's very openminded of you to recognise that you've been wrong for 15 pages. But I already wrote that I accepted your admission, so there's no reason for you to continue. Quote: I will be voting for Xenuria this year. Look, I realise you want to punish someone, but honestly, CCP are not at fault here. CCP didn't control who the voters voted for. It's unfair to punish CCP simply because the voters didn't vote for you.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:27:14 - [307] - Quote Tippia wrote: ... spurious . I disagree. Alphea Abbra wrote: Quote: I will be voting for Xenuria this year. Look, I realise you want to punish someone, but honestly, CCP are not at fault here. CCP didn't control who the voters voted for. It's unfair to punish CCP simply because the voters didn't vote for you. CCP and especially Fozzie's team deserve Xenuria after this last year's changes and for ignoring the solid feedback that the good members of CSM X presented. CCP does not deserve a good CSM this year. I will not be voting for someone I like and being directly responsible for putting them in a bad situation. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26823	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:30:16 - [308] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I disagree. Doesn't matter. You've openly and explicitly said that you refuse to provide evidence to support your claims. This makes them spurious. What you think beyond that point is irrelevant. Your insistence on disagreeing with facts is yet another reason people call you a liar, by the way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:35:02 - [309] - Quote Tippia wrote: Doesn't matter. . Your opinion and I do not care about it. (Note, that I am using short sentences. At some point perhaps you might get the message and stop making up what ever fantasy full of hopes you have running through your head) CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Violence of Action. 847	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:37:47 - [310] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tippia wrote: ... spurious . I disagree. You disagree that you should stop posting spurious claims? So you think you should post spurious claims? The alternative interpretation, that you don't think you're posting spurious claims, isn't relevant here since you already admitted that you've been wrong for 15 (Now 16) pages, and you already admitted that you had no evidence to give in support of your hypothesis. This is pretty much textbook definition of spurious, and so cannot be the intended use. Quote: CCP and especially Fozzie's team deserve Xenuria after this last year's changes and for ignoring the solid feedback that the good members of CSM X presented. CCP does not deserve a good CSM this year. I will not be voting for someone I like and being directly responsible for putting them in a bad situation. I'm not sure I agree with your analysis of Fozzie, but given that this is your opinion, I can see how your threat/action of voting Xenuria makes sense. Of course, I also think a more contructive approach would yield better results, but let's see over the next year.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26823	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:38:31 - [311] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Your opinion No, it's just fact. It's very nice of you to equate the two, though. Quote: I do not care about it. Again, the ample evidence you provide throughout this thread belies your claims. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:43:15 - [312] - Quote Tippia wrote: No, it's just fact. . Your opinion of my claims. Repeating a study to reproduce results that I have absolutely no doubts about, will change nothing and is a waste of my time and effort. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26823	Posted - 2016.01.24 18:55:37 - [313] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Your opinion of my claims. Again, you're confusing my opinion with facts. It's very nice of you to hold my opinion in such high regard, but it doesn't really do you any good. Quote: Repeating a study to reproduce results that I have absolutely no doubts about GÇªwould provide some evidence to demonstrate that your claims are not spurious. Your doubts (or lack thereof) of the outcome are of no consequence to how spurious they remain up until that point. If you think that it's a waste of time to have something to support your stance, then all you're really saying is that your stance is worthless. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 21:49:24 - [314] - Quote Tippia wrote: GÇªwould .... ... at this point never be done, simply to spite you. ... and yes, I have cut off my nose but it was less effort than spending months going around High Sec talking to people. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Violence of Action. 848	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:24:13 - [315] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tippia wrote: GÇªwould .... ... at this point never be done, simply to spite you. ... and yes, I have cut off my nose but it was less effort than spending months going around High Sec talking to people. You're not really spiting anyone. It's more just reinforcing our belief that you're an unapologetic liar who can't find any evidence in support of your claims, and knows that perfectly well. And spending months talking to people in hi-sec seems both like a waste of time because your magical code can do this much easier, and because the plural of anecdote isn't evidence. Seriously, don't you get it? You can get a thousand anecdotal testimonies, but if we don't know whether they were representative or not; honest or not; influenced by the interviewer or not; worse informed than the equivalent null-sec-player or not; ... we can't use a months' worth of anecdotes collected in hi-sec at all. If you get 1000 testimonies of alleged hi-sec people with a roughly 70-30 of voters/non-voters, and I get 1000 testimonies of alleged null-sec people with a roughly 60-40 voters/non-voters split, would that show anything? First of all, no it wouldn't. It would still be purely anecdotal. Secondly, such a split could easily come from a simple effect of player age (You can imagine that you don't follow the first CSM election while playing - I know I didn't, I voted blank in my first) or that the very invested players (Who are also invested in voting) are prone to moving towards null-sec. In short, simply collecting anecdotal testimonials (And hoping it's not a CFC boogeyman behind the other screen) isn't really evidence. It's just a huge waste of time. But at least now I begin to understand why you were so distressed when we didn't accept any of your claims. You thought your own anecdote was evidence, and thus should carry weight?
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:30:06 - [316] - Quote Alphea Abbra wrote: Blah Still don't care. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26825	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:41:33 - [317] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: at this point never be done, simply to spite you. Trying to spite me does not make you right GÇö it only makes you look stupid (and me right). Quote: I have cut off my nose but it was less effort than spending months going around High Sec talking to people. So what you're saying is that, if there is a problem GÇö something you have been utterly incapable of proving GÇö you are the cause. You can't be arsed with informing people, and then you complain (without proof) that they're not informed. You can't accept basic facts of statistics and sampling. You don't understand the voting system. You don't even understand the numbers we do have. More and more, it seems like it's not the (unproven) GÇ£majorityGÇ¥ that is uninformed or ignorant GÇö it's only you. Quote: I won't back down about this. I won't produce the evidence you want. Then you are wrong. No amount of adamant refusal to accept this fact will change it, nor will it change the proven fact that you are a liar GÇö in fact, it only provides further proof. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:47:12 - [318] - Quote Tippia wrote: ... Then you are wrong. ... You will believe that even if I go out and gather evidence. Again, effort wasted. I think you are a lost cause. Believe as you will. Your opinion does no matter. Edit: Weirdest thing. I said that I believed that the match between Camel and Warlords was fixed and everyone said I was an idiot. Then I found this on Reddit today Which had a this in it. ... hmmm .... I have miss-placed a thread somewhere. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26825	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:51:35 - [319] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: You will believe that even if I go out and gather evidence. You're confusing me with you. Just like how you're confusing my opinion with fact. Quote: Believe as you will. Your opinion does no matter. This is not a matter of belief or opinion, but of fact. The fact is that you simply do not understand the things you're trying to discuss. We know this as a fact because it is the only thing you've ever been able to prove; it's the only conclusion of the evidence you've produced. You are trying to argue against mathematical axioms and procedures. You are arguing against your own recorded posting history. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:54:50 - [320] - Quote Tippia wrote: This is not a matter of belief or opinion, I believe you are a waste of time. You believe I am a liar. I know that what I have stated is true. You demand I produce proof because you are too lazy to go out and find it yourself. I refuse. Make your own "truths" as much as you like. I am not buying it. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26825	Posted - 2016.01.24 22:58:29 - [321] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: You believe I am a liar. No. I know you're a liar. I know this because of the things you've said that contradict reality, and then repeated even when this contradiction has been pointed out to you. Quote: I know that what I have stated is true. Then you should have no problem proving it. Yet you can't; yet you refuse; yet you keep telling the same lies about things that have been disproven, often by you. Quote: You demand I produce proof because you are too lazy to go out and find it yourself. No. I demand you produce proof because it is your duty to do so, not mine. Until you do, because you're lazy, incompetent, or just a liar, any claim you make is inherently unproven and can be trivially dismissed as untrue. Trying to shift the burden of proof is a classic fallacy and only further proves you wrong every time you try to employ it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2491	Posted - 2016.01.24 23:10:35 - [322] - Quote Tippia wrote: ... I know this because of the things you've said that contradict reality, .... Your perception of reality, which is flawed. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26827	Posted - 2016.01.24 23:16:10 - [323] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Your perception of reality. No. Recorded history and data. Quote: which is flawed Prove that the data is flawed. Prove that you haven't posted your posts in this thread. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Violence of Action. 850	Posted - 2016.01.24 23:20:53 - [324] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tippia wrote: This is not a matter of belief or opinion, I believe you are a waste of time. You believe I am a liar. Maybe we're wasting our time with you. Perhaps. We're not wasting our time insofar that your conspiracies and entirely unsubstantiated claims (Or rather, at this point, your known lies) should go unchallenged, and thus be able to poison the well for the rest of us. And maybe it's just fun to engage in all manners of debate. Y'know, the default reason why you'd play a game is to have fun. Quote: I know that what I have stated is true. You demand I produce proof because you are too lazy to go out and find it yourself. But on page 15, you acknowledged that you'd been wrong for 15 pages. Which Jen am I supposed to believe? The one that lies and acknowledges it, or the one that lies and doubles down on it? ... No, you're perfectly aware at this point that you're talking bovine waste. You know it because if you're so sure, you could provide loads of proof, but instead you have either rejected it, tried to shift the burden of proof, given red herrings or things that at even the most cursory inspection points in the opposite direction of your claims. In other words, you're asking us to go out and find the proof for your claims, because you know that you're unable to do so yourself. It doesn't surprise me, really, except that at this point you should be aware that in all likelyhood, evidence that we dig up will at best be inconclusive, and at worst go against your claims even further, so you have to be aware that it wouldn't help even if we went out to dig up all the evidence. Quote: Make your own "truths" as much as you like. I am not buying it. I go where the evidence leads me. So far, you've given me nothing, while all the available evidence points in other directions. If you're unwilling to go where the evidence leads you, then you'll continue being wrong. I hope you don't act like this IRL, because if so, you'll have issues.


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