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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1578
   |
Posted - 2016.01.19 07:11:15 -
[211] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Tippia wrote:Jace Varus wrote:Go to the beta map in-game, and turn to the average number of pilots in space in the last 30 minutes. There you go. Just one problem GÇö in fact, the exact same problem as with all those inane claims: it doesn't display players. The mythical majority is just that: a myth, at best born out of bad maths, at worst born out of sheer ignorance and wishful thinking. So the vast majority of players are docked up or in a wormhole ? Ive seen you toss this trash about before, it runs counter to anything remotely reasonable given the facts presented by the game itself and it makes you look desperate and silly.
Players != characters.
I have 6 characters, all of which I use to some degree or another. 5 of them basically never leave high sec. One of them basically never enters high sec.
If you're pretending that all of my characters are a player, well, gosh, 5/6 players live in high sec!
Except, no. 5/6 "players", in this case, are station-sitting alts because characters are not players.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Mindrago Aldent
Spacetramp Holding
46
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 09:01:52 -
[212] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Back on track:
My experience of crossing High Sec multiple times and talking to people was that they didn't know the CSM existed nor what it does.
That is what is relevant.
Bullshit..you didn't ask me.
Over xmas I flew around hi sec systems trying to give away a shiny new Endurance..All I was after was a simple reply to me shouting merry xmas in local.
Using your argument, and as I got no reply, that must mean xmas doesn't exist!
I know the CSM exists, I also know lots of players in hs know it exists. Do they vote? doubtful.
The reason? Most see it as pointless as their single vote will not affect the block voting low/null alliances.
You have to remember that the vast majority of hs corps are a few mates/members who just log on to do what they like to do and have 0 interest in alliances or the political bullshit that goes on at this time of year. Or any time of year.
I personally think the csm should be disbanded and ccp should stop pandering to it and take control of their game back. Make the changes they want to and if YOU don't like it, well feel free to find a facebook game.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17364
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 11:58:01 -
[213] - Quote
Mindrago Aldent wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Back on track:
My experience of crossing High Sec multiple times and talking to people was that they didn't know the CSM existed nor what it does.
That is what is relevant. Bullshit..you didn't ask me. Over xmas I flew around hi sec systems trying to give away a shiny new Endurance..All I was after was a simple reply to me shouting merry xmas in local. Using your argument, and as I got no reply, that must mean xmas doesn't exist! I know the CSM exists, I also know lots of players in hs know it exists. Do they vote? doubtful. The reason? Most see it as pointless as their single vote will not affect the block voting low/null alliances. You have to remember that the vast majority of hs corps are a few mates/members who just log on to do what they like to do and have 0 interest in alliances or the political bullshit that goes on at this time of year. Or any time of year. I personally think the csm should be disbanded and ccp should stop pandering to it and take control of their game back. Make the changes they want to and if YOU don't like it, well feel free to find a facebook game.
So CCP have lost control of their came to the CSM? I thought the CSM was powerless and accomplished nothing.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
131
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 12:11:06 -
[214] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mindrago Aldent wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Back on track:
My experience of crossing High Sec multiple times and talking to people was that they didn't know the CSM existed nor what it does.
That is what is relevant. Bullshit..you didn't ask me. Over xmas I flew around hi sec systems trying to give away a shiny new Endurance..All I was after was a simple reply to me shouting merry xmas in local. Using your argument, and as I got no reply, that must mean xmas doesn't exist! I know the CSM exists, I also know lots of players in hs know it exists. Do they vote? doubtful. The reason? Most see it as pointless as their single vote will not affect the block voting low/null alliances. You have to remember that the vast majority of hs corps are a few mates/members who just log on to do what they like to do and have 0 interest in alliances or the political bullshit that goes on at this time of year. Or any time of year. I personally think the csm should be disbanded and ccp should stop pandering to it and take control of their game back. Make the changes they want to and if YOU don't like it, well feel free to find a facebook game. So CCP have lost control of their came to the CSM? I thought the CSM was powerless and accomplished nothing.
Man, you CSM guys are slow... CSM is powerless because CCP doesn't listen, because CCP has no control of their game, because Ilumittani! And aliens!
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination
Violence of Action.
839
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 12:26:47 -
[215] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:... But no, you don't know accounts that have been PLEX'ed to vote. ... I have met more than one CFC director via the test server. I know. I have seen them and their alliance members using them recently and I have spoken with them. (If you want more than that, you can suck it. They are some of the few ones I quite like and CFC shot a guy's titan for some pretext + Bat Country, etc) You're asking me to take your word for it? You're a known liar, and your previous reaction to being called out on a bad source was barely even a shrug and some claim about how you're still correct, and you expect me to take your statements on faith?
No. Can't. Do.
Again, this is why it's bad to lie, shrug when called out on it, and continue spouting some random BS.
I won't take your word for it, because until shown otherwise, I have no reason to believe this is different from your 75% claim. You discredited yourself, now you reap the rewards. 
Mister Ripley wrote:Man, you CSM guys are slow... CSM is powerless because CCP doesn't listen, because CCP has no control of their game, because Ilumittani! And aliens! You really don't think Mittens is an alien?!? Wow, do you also believe the Lamestream CONCORD media? Sleepers are an inside job! [/Conspiracy]  |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
297
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 12:38:25 -
[216] - Quote
nvm |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17372
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 14:14:48 -
[217] - Quote
Mister Ripley wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mindrago Aldent wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Back on track:
My experience of crossing High Sec multiple times and talking to people was that they didn't know the CSM existed nor what it does.
That is what is relevant. Bullshit..you didn't ask me. Over xmas I flew around hi sec systems trying to give away a shiny new Endurance..All I was after was a simple reply to me shouting merry xmas in local. Using your argument, and as I got no reply, that must mean xmas doesn't exist! I know the CSM exists, I also know lots of players in hs know it exists. Do they vote? doubtful. The reason? Most see it as pointless as their single vote will not affect the block voting low/null alliances. You have to remember that the vast majority of hs corps are a few mates/members who just log on to do what they like to do and have 0 interest in alliances or the political bullshit that goes on at this time of year. Or any time of year. I personally think the csm should be disbanded and ccp should stop pandering to it and take control of their game back. Make the changes they want to and if YOU don't like it, well feel free to find a facebook game. So CCP have lost control of their came to the CSM? I thought the CSM was powerless and accomplished nothing. Man, you CSM guys are slow... CSM is powerless because CCP doesn't listen, because CCP has no control of their game, because Ilumittani! And aliens!
Ohhhh.... 
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2308
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 14:49:50 -
[218] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
- Why are you voting for that person?
- Is the CSM influence more gradual and insidious?
- Is the CSM too full of peacocks or selfish agendas to be taken seriously by CCP?
- Is CSM largely a lobby group?
- How can the whole process be improved?
- Are these questions too late?
- I'm not - That sounds like a comparative sentence but it's missing the target of comparison - No more than this thread - That's the whole idea - Elect everyone in New Eden to the CSM - No, they're just pointless
i love your tash
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination
Violence of Action.
839
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 15:00:16 -
[219] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So CCP have lost control of their came to the CSM? And also eeewww.
And also kinky. 
And also invite? 
Next time the CSM does this, I mean...  |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2484
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:26:49 -
[220] - Quote
In the system we trust.
In the system we have no doubts.
The system is clearly perfect.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1588
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:29:19 -
[221] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:In the system we trust. In the system we have no doubts. The system is clearly perfect.
Did you have an argument to make, or have you just been reduced to shrilly complaining about THE SYSTEM for no articulable reason at this point?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2484
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:30:56 -
[222] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Did you have an argument to make, or have you just been reduced to shrilly complaining about THE SYSTEM for no articulable reason at this point? Have you actually done anything or presented anything concrete yet to disprove anything that I have said?
Your opinion doesn't amount to much.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1589
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:40:43 -
[223] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Did you have an argument to make, or have you just been reduced to shrilly complaining about THE SYSTEM for no articulable reason at this point? Have you actually done anything or presented anything concrete yet to disprove anything that I have said? Your opinion doesn't amount to much.
I am presenting this quote as concrete evidence that you do not understand how burden of proof functions.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2484
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:46:18 -
[224] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Did you have an argument to make, or have you just been reduced to shrilly complaining about THE SYSTEM for no articulable reason at this point? Have you actually done anything or presented anything concrete yet to disprove anything that I have said? Your opinion doesn't amount to much. I am presenting this quote as concrete evidence that you do not understand how burden of proof functions. I am presenting this quote as a deflection of a question.
I stand upon something. The results of the elections and the CSM candidates supported by Goons.
You stand upon your opinion and nothing else.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1589
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:48:09 -
[225] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Did you have an argument to make, or have you just been reduced to shrilly complaining about THE SYSTEM for no articulable reason at this point? Have you actually done anything or presented anything concrete yet to disprove anything that I have said? Your opinion doesn't amount to much. I am presenting this quote as concrete evidence that you do not understand how burden of proof functions. I am presenting this quote as a deflection of a question. I stand upon something. The results of the elections and the CSM candidates supported by Goons. You stand upon your opinion and nothing else.
Well, no, I stand upon the mathematical reality of STV when coupled with an ordered list, which conclusively proves your claim false.
Meanwhile, you're just making things up.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2484
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 20:11:24 -
[226] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:... I stand upon the mathematical reality of STV .... You stand on the belief that the system can't be gamed.
"Alliance A, put X at the top of your list. Alliance B, put Y at the top of your list. Alliance C, put Z at the top of your list," ... and hey, guess what? Not all alliances have the same activity or membership numbers.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1589
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 20:14:47 -
[227] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:... I stand upon the mathematical reality of STV .... You stand on the belief that the system can't be gamed.
And why wouldn't I? It is not as if anyone has suggested a compelling, factually supported argument that it has been gamed, or even can be meaningfully gamed.
Right now you're just some quack screaming about chemtrails and WiFi sickness.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17377
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 20:30:38 -
[228] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:... I stand upon the mathematical reality of STV .... You stand on the belief that the system can't be gamed. "Alliance A, put X at the top of your list. Alliance B, put Y at the top of your list. Alliance C, put Z at the top of your list," ... and hey, guess what? Not all alliances have the same activity or membership numbers.
That can't overcome that 62% "supermajority" though, unless that supermajority chooses not to vote.
It's an election, sweetie. People who do vote are going to get better results than people who don't vote. It's not unexpected. It's not even unfair. It's certainly not a bad thing.
EDIT: here's the wiki on the system used. See if you can't dig out a way it can be gamed that doesn't devolve to "well all the candidates are people I don't like and none of the people who actually take 60 seconds to click and drag a dozen times to vote are people I do like"
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2484
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 20:39:27 -
[229] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:That can't overcome that 62% "supermajority" though, unless that supermajority chooses not to vote. Are you absolutely sure that the 62% know there is a vote happening?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17379
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 21:11:46 -
[230] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:That can't overcome that 62% "supermajority" though, unless that supermajority chooses not to vote. Are you absolutely sure that the 62% know there is a vote happening?
This is the 11th CSM election. There have been, what? 10 in the last 7 years. Plenty of the "62%" seem to manage to find their way to the forum to complain about grr gons hat gons bloc votang because someone has been busy persauding them not to vote. The election is advertised in devblogs, it's all over the EVE 3rd party media (even if only people complaining about it), it appears on the launcher, and you can hardly open 2 form threads here without running across at least a reference to it.
Very new players have, I suppose, some excuse. Anyone who's been playing since there was last an election has none.
Just accept it. They know there are elections. They're just not voting. And people like you making **** up about "gaming" the elections are a big part of that.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2485
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 21:57:14 -
[231] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:...Anyone who's been playing since there was last an election has none. .... Average life expectancy of a High Sec account is 1.5 years + climbing the learning curve + time of year they join.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Marsha Mallow
2799
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 22:50:29 -
[232] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:...Anyone who's been playing since there was last an election has none. .... Average life expectancy of a High Sec account is 1.5 years + climbing the learning curve + time of year they join.
Then only exceptional players are retained, engage with the community, and have awareness of the CSM. Your 62% may well be dropout scrubs whose unspoken voice no-one wants to hear anyway. Because they aren't likely to stay ingame, and are probably whiny locusts moving between games in search of nerd-nirvana.
To the retained playerbase - why should this functionally illiterate and gormless blob of whingers be able to vote candidates in, then quit playing and leave us to deal with the consequences? Perhaps CSM votes should only be issued after players have acquired citizenship and fulfilled the naturalisation process?
Jen, that's my CSM delegate you're baiting btw. And I do mean 'delegate'. I voted with the intention of delegating that role to him, so I could boot him about it and call him my sockpuppet. But he worked hard and acheived results. And still takes the time to engage with you, despite the fact that you're wasting time window dressing trash talk, and have no real point.
Make some daft remark to signal that you accept being PvP'd by another player, without the CCP/CSM/clan gibbering. I'll give you a headstart to hide :)
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2485
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 23:03:01 -
[233] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Jen, that's my CSM delegate you're baiting btw. One poster's bait is another poster's debate. Subjective.Marsha Mallow wrote:... Then only exceptional players are retained, engage with the community, and have awareness of the CSM. Your 62% may well be dropout scrubs whose unspoken voice no-one wants to hear anyway. ... Try that the other way around. They don't know they have a voice. They see changes to Null Sec and think their way of play is ignored.
Again, CSM might have helped lead CCP into focusing on the wrong area of space. If it has been the other way around, perhaps more would have been enabled to transition into other areas of space more smoothly and additionally, they would spend more time paying for an account in High Sec.
If the average life of High Sec accounts could be extended by just a month, that would be significant.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13404
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 23:07:27 -
[234] - Quote
Is this guy still clinging to the "if they only knew me they'd elect me/listen to my idea and share them" idea?
CCP please make a pop up telling people ingame about the CSM. I want to see this mental house of cards crash and burn in my lifetime. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1595
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 23:27:00 -
[235] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Is this guy still clinging to the "if they only knew me they'd elect me/listen to my idea and share them" idea?
CCP please make a pop up telling people ingame about the CSM. I want to see this mental house of cards crash and burn in my lifetime.
Dean Chambers was only wrong because he didn't consider voter fraud. 
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2485
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 23:30:51 -
[236] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Is this guy still clinging to the "if they only knew me they'd elect me/listen to my idea and share them" idea? ... FTFY.
I won't be running again. Ever. Pay attention.
Said that before the results last year (CSM thread if you want to check it)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination
Violence of Action.
840
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 23:49:51 -
[237] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:In the system we trust. In the system we have no doubts. The system is clearly perfect. I don't know why you'd think that, but given how you're a moron who lies about most things I've seen, I'm hardly surprised at this point.
No, I really can't see why you're surprised that the vote is decided by the voters. STV is made exactly so it's hard to game, that's the whole mechanic. The reason why you fail, and is a failure as a candidate and as an activist for a cause, is because you both advocate disenfranchisement on your own side (For some reason I can't fathom, saying that CSM and voting is useless because some other group votes), and on "the opponent" side, and because the base you want to get to vote for you or your cause doesn't exist.
You imagined up a bunch of problems, then you blame those problems on a group you have an irrational hate against, and when people don't buy your premise, you claim they're part of the conspiracy.
9/11 truthers have more brain and have put more effort into their conspiracy than you have into yours. You're pathetic. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17381
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 00:01:02 -
[238] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Jen, that's my CSM delegate you're baiting btw. One poster's bait is another poster's debate. Subjective. Marsha Mallow wrote:... Then only exceptional players are retained, engage with the community, and have awareness of the CSM. Your 62% may well be dropout scrubs whose unspoken voice no-one wants to hear anyway. ... Try that the other way around. They don't know they have a voice. They see changes to Null Sec and think their way of play is ignored. Again, CSM might have helped lead CCP into focusing on the wrong area of space. If it has been the other way around, perhaps more would have been enabled to transition into other areas of space more smoothly and additionally, they would spend more time paying for an account in High Sec. If the average life of High Sec accounts could be extended by just a month, that would be significant.
And once again, nullsec got eff all between Dominion (yeah thanks for that) and Crius. Retribution up until Crius was either zone agnostic or all about empire.
Basically null got ONE thing that was good post Revalations, and that was the system upgrade/anoms thing. Which was horrible gameplay, but at least increased the potential economic density of nullsec such that it only took a whole region to match a good quality hi-sec system with 2+ level IV agents.
Hi-sec isn't being "ignored". It's just had it's damb turn and, if I don't miss my guess, as soon as Citadels come out, it'll get another.
So quit the stupid whining, God.
Also, public disclosure: Marsha voted for me with like 17 accounts, and started complaining about it even before I was actually elected. IIRC she got a snit on because I said that CCP was absotively right to dumpster Ankmephat-thing, or whatever her name was.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Marsha Mallow
2800
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 00:24:53 -
[239] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Also, public disclosure: Marsha voted for me with like 17 accounts, and started complaining about it even before I was actually elected. IIRC she got a snit on because I said that CCP was absotively right to dumpster Ankmephat-thing, or whatever her name was.
28 and I'll whine about it FOREVER.
But no, I wasn't arsed over Ankh being fired and found the spoonthrowing incident hilarious. Although the 'Deaf ***** gets fired from CSM' topic posted on Kugu by Viper at the time seemed excessively nasty, the comments were nauseating, and it bothered me that she was clearly an immature person whose CSM dismissal may have resulted in real life consequences. As a game developer herself, who'd put the CSM on her CV (which was leaked) and in the gaming industry, an accusation of an NDA leak might be fairly significant career-wise and disproportionately damaging.
Think the argument you recall is - I never agreed with CSMs being forced to post real names, you did, it's been subsequently overturned - I won/you lost/you're a bad loser <.< Being subject to the abuse of people on a forum who ejaculated on pictures of female players then posted them for applause, seemed a bit off, in addition to the CV (which had her contact details) and the rest. I think I got in a 'snit' because you regurgitated the 'deaf *****' tripe and deserved a smack in the mouth. Your election was after that conversation.
You're fired btw. Again. Got at least 20 of those saved sockpuppet.
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1599
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 00:25:55 -
[240] - Quote
Er... you know when you say, "Win or lose, I'm not going to run again," when it is apparent to everyone that you will not even enter the same zipcode as "winning" that we all understand it's just a bunch of face saving nonsense, right?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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