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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
282
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Posted - 2016.01.22 03:44:50 -
[271] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote: We're back to people who don't vote, and who often argue against voting, being mad that the CSM allegedly represents those who allegedly does vote. At least you didn't suggest disenfranchising people, so you're better than Jenshae.
Depends how you look at a none vote.
Some people say it's a wasted vote. People like myself that don't vote, don't vote because if you have a small number of parties and you don't feel any of those parties really represent you, then if you do vote, you are effectively saying you agree with them.
I look at a none vote as just a lack of confidence or non representation from the parties that are standing.
Now being from the UK, if there was a vote to leave Europe, then that's one I would consider.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
845
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Posted - 2016.01.22 07:38:57 -
[272] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:We're back to people who don't vote, and who often argue against voting, being mad that the CSM allegedly represents those who allegedly does vote. At least you didn't suggest disenfranchising people, so you're better than Jenshae. Depends how you look at a non vote. Some people say it's a wasted vote. People like myself that don't vote, don't vote because if you have a small number of parties and you don't feel any of those parties really represent you, then if you do vote, you are effectively saying you agree with them. I look at a non vote as just a lack of confidence in or non representation of the parties that are standing. Now being from the UK, if there was a vote to leave Europe, then that's one I would consider. Then a blank vote is what you're looking for. But in the UK, I can see why you'd think that. FPTP is a system that directly screws you over for voting for the parties you do like. And it's a shame, since you actually have so many nationally active parties in the UK, who in a better system would be viable and enrich the debate.
EVE actually moved away from this sort of system, and to the STV system. But comparing CSM candidates to politicians, however much we want to call them space-politicians, is inaccurate. They don't vote on new laws and they don't have a platform to force through any agendas, no matter how big a majority they hold. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17392
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Posted - 2016.01.22 08:13:20 -
[273] - Quote
"My theory is fine. Go get me some better data!"
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
505
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Posted - 2016.01.22 08:58:54 -
[274] - Quote
I don't undestand all that noize about CSM. There was Mike's article some time ago on CZ about CSM. This "body" has really small influence what and how will be developed. Small group of players that see what will come in the future. Their feedback will be or won't be taken under consideration.
Great example was SP trading. CCP hold the strings here. It's a illusion that CCP want to know what is our opinion.
So they gather few players, elected by % of playerbase, show them some future features and then disallowed to talk about it. "First rule of CSM meeting is that you don't talk about CSM meetings".
Grow up girls and boys, CCP care about your opinion so much that they put news on reddit first than their "for the memebers only" forum.
PS. It's not a personal attack on CSM members, for the time I spend here in EvE I'm sure they are the best what this community has to offer.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
282
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Posted - 2016.01.22 12:53:39 -
[275] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote: But comparing CSM candidates to politicians, however much we want to call them space-politicians, is inaccurate. They don't vote on new laws and they don't have a platform to force through any agendas, no matter how big a majority they hold.
I was only really comparing the election process, not what they do after they're elected. Except in relation to possible broken election promises. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.23 03:51:28 -
[276] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪwhich wouldn't let them collect any more useful data than what they already have. ... Websites and intranet sites collect better data than this.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
845
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Posted - 2016.01.23 11:20:53 -
[277] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich wouldn't let them collect any more useful data than what they already have. ... Websites and intranet sites collect better data than this. I don't think CCP would be mad if you sent them your solution, so that in the future they can have p<0.001 certainty they've got the right number of players. I don't think it exists, because if so CCP would probably have made it, but feel free to mail it to them.
And then the rest of us can laugh at you when new, perfectly accurate, numbers come out and still show that you're full of it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17399
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Posted - 2016.01.23 12:39:59 -
[278] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich wouldn't let them collect any more useful data than what they already have. ... Websites and intranet sites collect better data than this.
Good lord, you're serious, aren't you?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26816
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Posted - 2016.01.23 18:35:52 -
[279] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Websites and intranet sites collect better data than this. No. They collect a fraction of the data CCP does, if they collect it at all. That's because they only have some same tools CCP have, and even less reason to collect it.
Above all, they don't even remotely care about the question CCP is having such difficulty answering.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 05:09:54 -
[280] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich wouldn't let them collect any more useful data than what they already have. ... Websites and intranet sites collect better data than this. Good lord, you're serious, aren't you? You do realise that there is object oriented programming for web, which can do pretty much anything, right? No longer just a few basic scripts to display some stuff.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26817
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Posted - 2016.01.24 05:37:42 -
[281] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:You do realise that there is object oriented programming for web, which can do pretty much anything, right? No longer just a few basic scripts to display some stuff. You do realise that this has nothing to do with his question, right? And that your ignorance about the topic is showing more and more every time you post?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17414
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Posted - 2016.01.24 10:33:39 -
[282] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:You do realise that there is object oriented programming for web, which can do pretty much anything, right? No longer just a few basic scripts to display some stuff. You do realise that this has nothing to do with his question, right? And that your ignorance about the topic is showing more and more every time you post?
BUT BUT BUT CODE MAGIC!
And top men!
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
847
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Posted - 2016.01.24 11:18:31 -
[283] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich wouldn't let them collect any more useful data than what they already have. ... Websites and intranet sites collect better data than this. Good lord, you're serious, aren't you? You do realise that there is object oriented programming for web, which can do pretty much anything, right? No longer just a few basic scripts to display some stuff. Then please do send this magical code to CCP, so we can get the p<0.001 number of players, and you can still be wrong, but this time you will acknowledge it because the data still proves you wrong?
Look, Jen, after a few years with experience in statistics, I actually realised that the "torture numbers to say anything" clich+¬ that people have about statistics isn't accurate. Proving a faulty hypothesis with data can be really hard, and the worse your data are, the harder it gets to show anything. If you really want to be able to say anything, you can't just torture the numbers, you gotta make them up. Indoctrination, if you want an analogy to torture. You're asking for new data because the old data didn't fit your view. But apart from this new data being magical, we also have no reason to think it will prove you right. But until we get this perfect, flawless data that authoritatively tells us the number of players, their average number of accounts and what kind of player that is, the numbers Tippia presented before is our best educated guess. You were wrong in suggesting that there is be an unrepresented majority of players in hi-sec. You were unfounded in suggesting that these players are kept from voting somehow. It is morally reprehensible to suggest disenfranchising some people just to have some alleged non-voters' vote be comparatively equal.
And until you send in your magical code and get data that still shows you wrong, this is all just a red herring from that. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 14:37:18 -
[284] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:...And until you .... No. Until you guys actually go out and talk to High Sec players and find out just how ignorant of CSM they are and return with anonymised chat logs, my central point to this thread will not be swept under the rug.Malcanis wrote:... BUT BUT BUT CODE MAGIC! ... BUT BUT BUT people actually pay me to code security systems. (I'll give you an out though. Perhaps, I am just using a lot of pre-made tools well and exploiting management's ignorance. You are welcome to tell yourselves that.)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 14:57:22 -
[285] - Quote
Purely incidental encounter: Quote:n++[ 2016.01.22 17:49:51 ] Di > too bad soe ships don't have cool skins n++[ 2016.01.22 17:50:16 ] Di > the only alternative is actually worse than the original imo n++[ 2016.01.22 17:51:01 ] Da > default skin is awesome enough :) n++[ 2016.01.22 17:51:48 ] Di > too awesome maybe? n++[ 2016.01.22 17:53:16 ] Ta > which boat are we talking aout? n++[ 2016.01.22 17:53:30 ] Da > nah, there's no such thing as too much awesome n++[ 2016.01.22 17:53:50 ] Da > Astero Stratios Nestor colour scheme n++[ 2016.01.22 17:53:53 ] Di > soe ships generally n++[ 2016.01.22 17:54:53 ] Jenshae > OMG! Like that shade of lipstick on the Astero, like it is so tacky! Why don't we all put nail varnish on its thrusters and give it a make over!!! n++[ 2016.01.22 17:55:20 ] Da > ah n++[ 2016.01.22 17:55:25 ] Ar > /emote covers Jenshae in concealer n++[ 2016.01.22 17:55:26 ] Da > it's that time of year n++[ 2016.01.22 17:55:43 ] Jenshae > What time of year? n++[ 2016.01.22 17:55:53 ] Mi > CCCCCCCCSSSSSSSSSMMMMMMMMMM n++[ 2016.01.22 17:55:58 ] Da > lol n++[ 2016.01.22 17:56:04 ] Di > getting love sick time n++[ 2016.01.22 17:56:10 ] Da > Mi couldn't have put it better myself n++[ 2016.01.22 17:56:15 ] Ta > I like that Astero n++[ 2016.01.22 17:56:16 ] Jenshae > Oh that? This has become my manufacturing toon. n++[ 2016.01.22 17:56:43 ] Da > For what it's worth, I don't think I'm going to bother this time around n++[ 2016.01.22 17:57:36 ] Jenshae > I am voting for Xenuria. They are the candidate that *CCP* deserves after destroyers ruining the frigate meta and SOV being shallow and shyte. n++[ 2016.01.22 17:57:38 ] Ta > what time of year is it? n++[ 2016.01.22 17:57:53 ] Di > I would go with a Stratios n++[ 2016.01.22 17:58:01 ] Ta > and is my Incursus big enough to do it? n++[ 2016.01.22 17:58:36 ] Jenshae > What can you fly and what are you trying to do? n++[ 2016.01.22 17:59:11 ] Da > Ta it's not an in-game event or anything, just politics n++[ 2016.01.22 17:59:24 ] Da > game politics, but politics nonetheless n++[ 2016.01.22 17:59:34 ] Di > I just want it, that's all n++[ 2016.01.22 17:59:39 ] Ta > I was wondering what time of year it was somebody said they were sitting it out this time so i figured it was an event n++[ 2016.01.22 18:00:18 ] Jenshae > CSM = players voted by players (the few who know there is a vote happening) to whisper in CCP's (the game developer) ears and stear them all over the map. n++[ 2016.01.22 18:00:48 ] Ta > oh okay politices them no fun in that n++[ 2016.01.22 18:01:08 ] Di > where can I do that vote? n++[ 2016.01.22 18:01:31 ] Da > CCP will announce it when the time comes n++[ 2016.01.22 18:01:31 ] Di > I want to tell them that the "rookie experience" sucks [ 2016.01.22 18:02:42 ] Jenshae > Di the only good candidate I know that is running is Jin'taan if he gets elected, drop him a message to raise your *detailed* feedback and concerns to CCP. n++[ 2016.01.22 18:03:18 ] Ta > How did you get bold? n++[ 2016.01.22 18:03:40 ] Jenshae > Screen shots, a whole short bloody presentation is the sort of thing they need, not just "It sucks" because then CCP, says, "They didn't say why it sucks so we can't fix it. *Shrugs* and dismisses it"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26819
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Posted - 2016.01.24 15:02:37 -
[286] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Purely incidental encounter: So one guy not knowing, and when being told explicitly saying he doesn't care GÇö same as the guy who does know GÇö provesGǪ what?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
847
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 15:20:51 -
[287] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:...And until you .... No. Until you guys actually go out and talk to High Sec players and find out just how ignorant of CSM they are and return with anonymised chat logs, my central point to this thread will not be swept under the rug. It's not sweeping it under a rug. It's saying "This does not stand up to scrutiny", a very different thing. I'm also not going to go out and collect anecdotes. Two reasons: I'm not going to believe anecdotes are representative, or qualify as evidence, even if I collect them myself; and I'm not going to do your work for you. If you think there is a large majority of players who do not vote, in hi-sec, there are three things you can do: You can inform them yourself; you can provide reasons and evidence for why and where we should inform them; you can get CCP to inform them. As long as the information you provide is correct, you should be fine on your own. But you're not just claiming (Without evidence and in spite of our qualified guesses) that there's a silent majority in hi-sec. You're also claiming a conspiracy to keep them silenced, and a desire to even the odds by silencing those whom you claim are doing the silencing. All of this, as I said, without proof.
Quote:Malcanis wrote:... BUT BUT BUT CODE MAGIC! ... BUT BUT BUT people actually pay me to code security systems. (I'll give you an out though. Perhaps, I am just using a lot of pre-made tools well and exploiting management's ignorance. You are welcome to tell yourselves that.) I'm sure people pay you lots of money for your incredible expertise in the matter of discerning individual persons accessing a service through a number of accounts, and that you can easily code this and send it to CCP so you can get the authoritative and p<0.001 data that will show how players, not just characters, are distributed. My money are on option "It will not show a hi-sec majority of players", and until you tell us that your awesome knowledge and coding power has resulted in an elaborate setup, sent to CCP and shown to us here, I'll continue to assume that you think so, too.
Quote:Purely incidental encounter: Again, anecdotes doesn't and cannot prove any point in either direction. I could go out and find 10 testimonials of hi-sec players who knew about CSM and either did or didn't vote because of well-informed decisions, and it wouldn't prove or disprove any point anywhere, because it's anecdotal. But even then, your own anecdote shows that 3/5 know about the CSM and one of those 2 who did not know immediately asked "where can I vote?" So what you ought to ask for, really, is that CCP uses (As they have before) their splash page and dev.blogs and so on to announce the elections ... as they've done already or, I'm sure, they intend to do. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 16:01:30 -
[288] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So one guy not knowing, ... 2/4 + lurkers.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
847
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Posted - 2016.01.24 16:10:44 -
[289] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tippia wrote:So one guy not knowing, ... 2/4 + lurkers. Addendum to my last post: Apart from this being, at best, an anecdote, how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? Last time you tried to pass something off as evidence for your cause, you knew you were lying since the "proof" you presented was nowhere close to being that, and it would be clear from even the most cursory look.
So I'm sorry I even considered your post an anecdote. We need to take a step back first: Why should I trust you, a known liar, to provide accurate anecdotes of your conversations? How am I able to confirm that the anecdote you posted even took place? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 16:45:48 -
[290] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:... how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? ... Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming, "Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!"
DO.
You won't trust anything that doesn't fit what you believe until you go and do; experience things first hand.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
847
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Posted - 2016.01.24 16:59:23 -
[291] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:... how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? ... Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming, "Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!" I only do that with you and Xenuria. You're free to guess why. But you say things here like you already did the investigation, and so I can save valuable time by simply asking for a copy of your evidence... except that you haven't given anything but unsubstantiated claims and clearcut lies so far. That's why I ask for evidence each time. While my normal reaction to someone posting an anecdote might be mild curiosity, or asking for something with greater weight than anecdotes, for you I simply don't have that default level of trust to report anything accurately. You lied before, you knew it, and you shrugged it off and continued to make the same claim. Later, after being shown in what direction the evidence we do have points, you asked for new data with a whole new slew of claims.
Quote:You won't trust anything that doesn't fit what you believe until you go and do; experience things first hand. Incorrect. I'm perfectly willing to change my mind, if I am presented with evidence for it. Until that happens, I'm not putting much faith in the claims of someone who claims conspiracies and lies about the evidence. Especially not when that person then both gives anecdotes in lieu of evidence, and asks me to go out and find anecdotes myself. Not even if they're first-hand. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:04:31 -
[292] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:...You're free to guess why. .... You are butt-hurt and Jenn aSnides' trolling alt?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1695
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:08:26 -
[293] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:... how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? ... Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming, "Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!" DO.You won't trust anything that doesn't fit what you believe until you go and do; experience things first hand.
Have you considered that people respond to you with, "Liar liar pants on fire," because you've made a habit of presenting spurious claims based on data that is anecdotal at best, and, at worst, in opposition to those claims?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
847
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:11:14 -
[294] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:...You're free to guess why. .... You are butt-hurt and Jenn aSnides' trolling alt? Neither, but decent deflect. It's almost as if you don't want to tell anyone what evidence you have, and rather just do what conspiracy theorists of all times have done: Claim unsubstantiated things, post links that doesn't really back it up, claim suppression and whenever anyone asks for evidence, say it's out there, just go look.
...
It's not trolling to ask for evidence for your rather extraordinary claims. It's not trolling to ask for evidence for your ordinary claims, when you've been shown to lie before. It's not trolling not to believe you on faith. It's due dilligence. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:13:27 -
[295] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Have you considered ... *Gets this far, checks name and profile picture then shrugs and makes this post without reading further.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:15:18 -
[296] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:... I'm perfectly willing to change my mind, .... I don't believe you.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
847
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:21:53 -
[297] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:... I'm perfectly willing to change my mind, .... I don't believe you. Then the lucky thing is, you can test it. Provide evidence for your claims. If I can't show your evidence to be wrong or flawed in some way, and won't change my mind, you were right now to believe me. All it takes is a little evidence. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26819
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 17:23:05 -
[298] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:2/4 + lurkers. One who asked what it was. So one (1). Trying to make it sound like more because that one character was hidden in a bunch of unrelated static does not suddenly make him more than one guy. There's one who asks GÇ£whenGÇ¥, which is not the same question as GÇ£what.GÇ¥ This out of a conversation between 6 people plus, as you point out, any number of lurkers.
You know, since your claim is that no-one knows about it, that's an awful low amount of people who asked about it and an awful lot of people who did not, because they already know and/or didn't care.
Quote:Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming Why, when you provide such ample evidence to prove yourself wrong. More than 83% seem to know about the CSM, according to your own evidence. Your claim is that a majority does not. Your anecdotal evidence disproves your made-up statistic, much like how your previous attempt at providing evidence disproved your previous made-up statistic of how many votes were being controlled.
Every time you try to prove something, all you do is prove yourself wrong. And yet, you keep saying the same thing, willingly and intentionally. This is the reason people call you a liar: because you lie. You make stuff up. That's all you ever do.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:40:46 -
[299] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:2/4 + lurkers. One who asked what it was. So one (1). Trying to make it sound like more because that one character was hidden in a bunch of unrelated static does not suddenly make him more than one guy. There's one who asks GÇ£whenGÇ¥, which is not the same question as GÇ£what.GÇ¥ This out of a conversation between 6 people plus, as you point out, any number of lurkers. ... You can see from how thing were spelt out that Di could pick up what the CSM was and want to vote. Knowing nothing, they thought the vote might be on Reddit for all they knew. Ti thought the CSM was an event.
Again, talk to people. This chat log happened recently and without my deliberate efforts. I have a new computer and I have my own experiences from running for CSM.
- I won't be running around talking to people again this year. I have no motivation.
- The chat logs from last year are gone.
- Even if I had them, I wouldn't put in the wasted effort of digging through them for you.
So, take that as me having no proof and rejoice.
Why don't I make the effort to find more proof? Your opinion of me is not worth trying to sway because I do not value it (but the pointless arguing in circles is a good distraction while, warp, warp, warping).
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26821
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 17:50:21 -
[300] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:You can see from how thing were spelt out that Di GǪknew enough to not ask GǣwhatGǥ, but GǣwhenGǥ. That is all. Anything else is just you putting words in their mouth, and since you can't even get their names right with the text right in front of you, your attempts at reading and pulling some meaning out of it is very close to being 100% unreliable. Even if you count him, you still don't have your majority.
Your evidence disproves your claims, as always. Yet you keep lying.
Quote:Again, talk to people. Yes, please do so and come back with some actual, non-anecdotal evidence. Preferably something that doesn't immediately prove you wrong.
Quote:Why don't I make the effort to find more proof? Most likely because a) you can't, and b) because it always backfires spectacularly on you when you try. I'm sure you could invent some other reasons, but your history of lying makes anything you say highly suspect and more likely to be untrue than true.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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