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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
   |
Posted - 2007.01.22 23:54:00 -
[1]
For a serious user, why is vi$ta better than xp64?
Discuss.
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
JoDirt
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2007.01.22 23:56:00 -
[2]
The security is a lot better.
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Luckily my neck broke my fall... |
Kung Zao
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:12:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: JoDirt
Edited by: JoDirt on 23/01/2007 00:01:55
The security is a lot better.
Edit: Vista <---just checking
AHAHAHA....  
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:24:00 -
[4]
2(122302:125102:125402) 02(+Cevius02) with the early release of it for business/enterprise edition, hackers have prolly just made up an nice coricopia of Zero day release viruses and other fun stuff for the home editions
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Lance Hawke
Beyond Divinity Inc
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:27:00 -
[5]
What is Vi$ta? The cool kid way of typing it?
It's called Vista. If you spell it with a $, then you're likely one of those people who hates Microsoft for no good reason, who won't actually pay for it anyway.
End random troll.
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smashsmash
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:33:00 -
[6]
you mean you can get it free? sweet! maybe there is justice in the world
Originally by: Lance Hawke
What is Vi$ta? The cool kid way of typing it?
It's called Vista. If you spell it with a $, then you're likely one of those people who hates Microsoft for no good reason, who won't actually pay for it anyway.
End random troll.
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emepror
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:39:00 -
[7]
actually vist(the good version of home edition) is about $300 but the upgrade is like $160
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2007.01.23 01:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lance Hawke
What is Vi$ta? The cool kid way of typing it?
It's called Vista. If you spell it with a $, then you're likely one of those people who hates Microsoft for no good reason, who won't actually pay for it anyway.
End random troll.
I'm not a microsoft hater, I sure as well own't use a mac/ox10.
So far, the onl real reason to upgrade has been dx10, is MS going to bind dx10 distiny to vista and vista long to force sales?
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Wibiq
Cloak and Daggers
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 01:39:00 -
[9]
It most likely won't matter initially, but it won't take long for applications to use features that aren't available in XP. Just like any other OS upgrade, it will take a little time for programmers to start using it strongly, but really it goes back to a simple question: why don't you currently use Win98?
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.23 01:57:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 01:55:45
Its better because it purposely degrades all audio and blurs all video unless you have a license and play it on a monitor that supports HDMI (read: 2000 dollars). Its better because it performs quite a bit slower in all benchmarks and eats an extra 800 megabytes of RAM.
Oh wait...
It does have some redeeming features though, like WinFS... oh wait, they cancelled that. The Monad shell should give it something to compete with Linux... oh wait, they cancelled that. Does Vista have any new features other than Aero (for which there is already a Java equivalent that uses less memory), DirectX 10, and ridiculous amounts of DRM?
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:04:00 -
[11]
Wouldn't surprise me if Microcrap decides to release DX10 to XP down the road, when the release period of Vista is over.
[OMG! SMASH!] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Wouldn't surprise me if Microcrap decides to release DX10 to XP down the road, when the release period of Vista is over.
Microsoft will only release DX10 for XP if Vista is a marketing failure (like the Zune was). They want companies to make programs for DX10, but if few people buy Vista, they will be forced to release it for XP.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Marund
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2007.01.23 02:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 01:55:45 Does Vista have any new features other than Aero (for which there is already a Java equivalent that uses less memory), DirectX 10, and ridiculous amounts of DRM?
Mmmmm.... DirectX 10... that is probably the only really great thing about it.
___
Eve Simulator!
www.evesim2.ytmnd.com
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Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.23 02:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 01:55:45
Its better because it purposely degrades all audio and blurs all video unless you have a license and play it on a monitor that supports HDMI (read: 2000 dollars). Its better because it performs quite a bit slower in all benchmarks and eats an extra 800 megabytes of RAM.
Eh? Have you actually tried Vista? Your posts are usually pretty intelligent but this one just seems misguided.
I've been running Vista RC2 since it came out and the ram usage is under 400MB (of my 1GB) when its relatively idle. I used to run 2GB, before one stick died, and then I remember the ram usage was higher (around 600MB iirc) so I can only assume that Vista's memory usage varies depending on how much ram you have to spare.
As for the degraded audio and blurred video I simply have no idea what you're talking about.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Callistus
Eh? Have you actually tried Vista? Your posts are usually pretty intelligent but this one just seems misguided.
I've been running Vista RC2 since it came out and the ram usage is under 400MB (of my 1GB) when its relatively idle. I used to run 2GB, before one stick died, and then I remember the ram usage was higher (around 600MB iirc) so I can only assume that Vista's memory usage varies depending on how much ram you have to spare.
Under 400MB? I haven't installed it simply because I only have a gig, but the screenshots I've seen show 800MB idle usage. I know someone with a gig who couldn't play back a DVD because he didn't have enough free memory.
Originally by: Callistus
As for the degraded audio and blurred video I simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Read up on Vista DRM. You cannot play back any protected content (meaning any DVD, even things you could play fine on XP) without it being blurred unless you have a screen that supports HDMI.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The irony is that its not even out yet, and no games are out for DX10 yet, so we don't even know how much better it is. Who knows, it might suck. 
preview
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 02:23:23
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The irony is that its not even out yet, and no games are out for DX10 yet, so we don't even know how much better it is. Who knows, it might suck.
preview
That's partially because the DX9 screenshot is not using HDR or SM3.0, both features which are already available in DX9.
SM4.0 of DX10 is undoubtedly better than SM3.0 of DX9, but whether its worth gimping my entire computer and forcing me to boot Linux to play back a DVD... I'm not sure.
And I'm getting low enough FPS in fleetbattles already
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 02:13:58
Originally by: Callistus
Eh? Have you actually tried Vista? Your posts are usually pretty intelligent but this one just seems misguided.
I've been running Vista RC2 since it came out and the ram usage is under 400MB (of my 1GB) when its relatively idle. I used to run 2GB, before one stick died, and then I remember the ram usage was higher (around 600MB iirc) so I can only assume that Vista's memory usage varies depending on how much ram you have to spare.
Under 400MB? I haven't installed it simply because I only have a gig, but the screenshots I've seen show 800MB idle usage. I know someone with a gig who couldn't play back a DVD because he didn't have enough free memory.
Well I'm sat here with 45 running process (AV, firefox, download software, etc) and the memory usage is 450MB. I also regularly run two eve clients and ventrillo on top of that and don't run into problems. Admittedly I did try and play music on top of that a few times and things did slow down.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Callistus
As for the degraded audio and blurred video I simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Read up on Vista DRM. You cannot play back any protected content (meaning any DVD, even things you could play fine on XP) without it being blurred unless you have a screen that supports HDMI.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "blurred" but I've watched a ton of DVDs on this computer with no problems at all. Audio quality on all my music seems to be exactly the same as XP as well.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:32:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 02:29:43
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 02:13:58
Originally by: Callistus
Eh? Have you actually tried Vista? Your posts are usually pretty intelligent but this one just seems misguided.
I've been running Vista RC2 since it came out and the ram usage is under 400MB (of my 1GB) when its relatively idle. I used to run 2GB, before one stick died, and then I remember the ram usage was higher (around 600MB iirc) so I can only assume that Vista's memory usage varies depending on how much ram you have to spare.
Under 400MB? I haven't installed it simply because I only have a gig, but the screenshots I've seen show 800MB idle usage. I know someone with a gig who couldn't play back a DVD because he didn't have enough free memory.
Well I'm sat here with 45 running process (AV, firefox, download software, etc) and the memory usage is 450MB. I also regularly run two eve clients and ventrillo on top of that and don't run into problems. Admittedly I did try and play music on top of that a few times and things did slow down.
The 800MB must have been counting pagefile usage. How much pagefile usage do you get with that 450MB of RAM?
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Callistus
As for the degraded audio and blurred video I simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Read up on Vista DRM. You cannot play back any protected content (meaning any DVD, even things you could play fine on XP) without it being blurred unless you have a screen that supports HDMI.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "blurred" but I've watched a ton of DVDs on this computer with no problems at all. Audio quality on all my music seems to be exactly the same as XP as well.
Just looked it up. Correction: its for high-definition video only, so all HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays will be blurred until you buy a 2000 dollar HDMI monitor. This will also of course prevent you from making any sort of legal copy or backup of your disk without resorting to *****ing the encryption.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:41:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Callistus on 23/01/2007 02:38:03
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The 800MB must have been counting pagefile usage. How much pagefile usage do you get with that 450MB of RAM?
Page file usage says 768M/2301M
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The 800MB must have been counting pagefile usage. How much pagefile usage do you get with that 450MB of RAM?
Page file usage says 768M/2301M
Wow, that's pretty high, though not as high as I expected.
Gah, what happened to memory efficient programs? 
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:51:00 -
[22]
Actually that pagefile of 768 was while I was watching a movie (bumping the ram usage up to 525MB).
Now that I've stopped and the ram is back down to around 450MB, the pagefile is down to 660.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Big Underdog
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 03:09:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Gah, what happened to memory efficient programs?
Bloatware
(short version - lazy programmers and PHBs)
This is why I don't use NAV anymore
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Grimpak
Gallente
Twisted Attitude
Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.01.23 03:09:00 -
[24]
I don't see any kind of advantage to us guys that live with a tight budget to build pc's.
-------
Originally by: Tiuwaz
for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Kurren
Farscape Mining
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 03:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Wouldn't surprise me if Microcrap decides to release DX10 to XP down the road, when the release period of Vista is over.
Meh, like people need to wait for Vista. If I know computer nerds and web pirates... DX10 will likely have a home in XP sooner than MS's plans for it to. Hell, I'd be willing to be people could get Win2000 to run DX10. Its all just a matter of who wants to be the first internet junky superstar.
--- --- --- ---
My Sig Is Not Too Big...
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 03:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kurren
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Wouldn't surprise me if Microcrap decides to release DX10 to XP down the road, when the release period of Vista is over.
Meh, like people need to wait for Vista. If I know computer nerds and web pirates... DX10 will likely have a home in XP sooner than MS's plans for it to. Hell, I'd be willing to be people could get Win2000 to run DX10. Its all just a matter of who wants to be the first internet junky superstar.
Its likely Microsoft will have integrated DX10 into the Windows Vista video system, making it very hard to reverse-engineer it for XP without the source code.
Its a more reasonable hope to think that WINE will improve enough to replace Windows. It already plays EVE, so who says it can't do DX10? 
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Gothikia
Gothikia's Home for Wayward Boys
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 04:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Does Vista have any new features other than Aero (for which there is already a Java equivalent that uses less memory), DirectX 10, and ridiculous amounts of DRM?
Do yourself and the rest of the forums a favour and STFU. Now thats out the way GO HERE! spend a few days watching all the videos about the innovations, yes DS, INNOVATIONS, that have been created by Microsoft, for Vista. Once you've educated yourself a little bit, then come back and re-evaluate your opinion. Its not as if your post count is going to decrease now is it...
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Leto Twin
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 07:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gothikia
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Does Vista have any new features other than Aero (for which there is already a Java equivalent that uses less memory), DirectX 10, and ridiculous amounts of DRM?
Do yourself and the rest of the forums a favour and STFU. Now thats out the way GO HERE! spend a few days watching all the videos about the innovations, yes DS, INNOVATIONS, that have been created by Apple, for Microsoft's version of Tiger. Once you've educated yourself a little bit, then come back and re-evaluate your opinion. Its not as if your post count is going to decrease now is it...
Now, I don't own a mac, and have been a windows user for as long as I can remember. But even I know Vista is pretty much Tiger in XP. Time's review.
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Rakeris
Legio VIII
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Posted - 2007.01.23 07:28:00 -
[29]
Nice review, I have to agree with it though, vista is no way a rip off of mac, completely different...
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I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises. |
Leto Twin
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 07:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rakeris
Nice review, I have to agree with it though, vista is no way a rip off of mac, completely different...
I think the reviewer was being sarcastic myself. But I won't be installing Vista for a while yet. I am not going to pay to beta-test an OS.
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Gothikia
Gothikia's Home for Wayward Boys
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Posted - 2007.01.23 07:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Leto Twin
Originally by: Rakeris
Nice review, I have to agree with it though, vista is no way a rip off of mac, completely different...
I think the reviewer was being sarcastic myself. But I won't be installing Vista for a while yet. I am not going to pay to beta-test an OS.
Vista has been in extensive public testing for over a year and a half now, believe me when I say that the OS is very much stable and has been since RC1. The testing effort is the largest ever undertaken for an OS before it is RTM, so alot of stuff has been caught... The only slight problems you MIGHT encounter is with the hardware vendors and driver issues.
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jitachecker
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Posted - 2007.01.23 08:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Callistus
As for the degraded audio and blurred video I simply have no idea what you're talking about.
linkeh
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elFarto
New Order Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.23 09:45:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Its likely Microsoft will have integrated DX10 into the Windows Vista video system, making it very hard to reverse-engineer it for XP without the source code.
Its a more reasonable hope to think that WINE will improve enough to replace Windows. It already plays EVE, so who says it can't do DX10?
For one thing, OpenGL is now capable of everything DirectX10 is, on any operating system (Windows/Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris) thanks to NVidia exposing the functionality as extensions.
Also the Wine team have indicated that it would be relatively easy to make a Direct3D10 layer for windows xp, which would be interesting to say the least.
Regards
elFarto
NPC database
Mal: This is your captain speaking. We're having some technical difficulties, so we may experience some turbulence, and then explode. |
Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 10:37:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Callistus on 23/01/2007 10:36:36
Originally by: jitachecker
Originally by: Callistus
As for the degraded audio and blurred video I simply have no idea what you're talking about.
linkeh
Hmmm does sound scary... but:
Quote:
Microsoft said only the quality of "premium content" would be lowered, and only if requested by copyright holders
Guess we'll have to wait and see how many copyright holders actually take advantage of this.
Also,
Quote:
Microsoft said that if picture quality was degraded it would still be better than current DVD quality.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 11:08:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/01/2007 11:30:58
Originally by: elFarto
Also the Wine team have indicated that it would be relatively easy to make a Direct3D10 layer for windows xp, which would be interesting to say the least.
Win
Oh by the way, Vista can be quite a bit slower than XP. See this post and this post. The latter one is especially troubling: Microsoft has dedicated an ungodly amount of system resources to protecting your computer from being accessed by you!
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 11:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The irony is that its not even out yet, and no games are out for DX10 yet, so we don't even know how much better it is. Who knows, it might suck.
preview
You do know that the water on the second picture is a photoshop job? A bad one at that.
[OMG! SMASH!] |
Agamemnon Illearth
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:15:00 -
[37]
At present Vista does indeed perform relatively badly compared to XP when running game benchmarks in DX9.
However this is simple driver issues. Issues that will be ironed out.
I remember this whole arguement way back when everyone argued that Win98 was the nuts and XP sucked. Indeed before some service packs were released it did suck.
Not anymore though its been the best Microsoft product yet.
So you folks will have to forgive me if i believe that history will repeat itself and we will all be sitting here 4-5 years down the line complaining because we dont want to give up Vista for TotalHellOS
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FiddleKids
TITAN INDUSTRIES ELITE
Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:29:00 -
[38]
Epic win
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 13:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Agamemnon Illearth
At present Vista does indeed perform relatively badly compared to XP when running game benchmarks in DX9.
However this is simple driver issues. Issues that will be ironed out.
I doubt they will iron out the "issue" of full encryption used throughout the OS (using tons of CPU power) for the sole purpose of stopping the user from freely viewing his own files.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Kyozoku
Mutiny.
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 14:17:00 -
[40]
I wont be using it until I'm forced to use dx10 and I won't be paying for it. 
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Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 14:32:00 -
[41]
What highly troubles me is that the objective of Vista seems to be to wrest the control of your computer from you, the owner, to them, Microsoft. Noone would buy it, if not for the fact that they are using they're monopoly position to force people to use it, due to the fact that they are making DX10 Vista only...
Meh.
Sigs are for noobs. |
Benco97
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 14:41:00 -
[42]
If you guys are talking about the UAC then you do know it can just be switched off yeah?
There's an option right there in my user accounts window.
Although, if you're not talking about that and i'm being a dumbass again.. please ignore ;.;
"MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum |
elFarto
New Order Industries
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 14:42:00 -
[43]
I also found something else out about vista, They have removed the ability for DirectSound3D hardware accelerated audio. It seems Creative are developing a DirectSound to OpenAL wrapper. Hopefully Wine can benefit from this.
Regards
elFarto
NPC database
Mal: This is your captain speaking. We're having some technical difficulties, so we may experience some turbulence, and then explode. |
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