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ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan
Of Questionable Repute
848
   |
Posted - 2016.01.14 16:57:08 -
[91] - Quote
To be fair, since we formed a coalition with doctrines, it's own fleet/Intel channels, direct lines between other coalition leadership, etc we have been able to largely avoid those problems at the cost of not only cutting out the vast majority of the Milita with the exception of opening fleets up, but also at the cost of vastly increased tensions. Apparently just having an "us" leads people to an "us versus them" scenario. Imagine my surprise when I am informed one of the CEOs was banned from communications services with the message "traitorous scum confirmed".
So it does very much seem if one wants to solve the issues that are present, that there are certainly those who will create a bitter backlash against that. A great deal of the venting in this thread has been a response to that backlash. Tensions however would be greatly eased if people understood no one is "in charge" of the TLF forces and that if you don't agree with what a group is doing make your own, and run it how you like, don't try to dictate to people you aren't in control of how they can conduct their fight.
I know in my previous expierence with Amarr, Dirt and Glitter couldn't care less when Pyre would go into null for a day to shoot those people, or if we weren't gonna deplex kourmonen, etc. So this whole situation has taken me quite by surprise. That just seemed obvious, you can't tell people in other alliances what to do, unless you are the FC in a public fleet and then your authority ends when that fleet does. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office
645
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 17:08:27 -
[92] - Quote
Ok. So.
I could comment on that, but I am not sure unsolicited consulting is the thing anyone is looking for here.
Want some nuts with your intelligence?
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
538
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 17:13:15 -
[93] - Quote
Ah yes, the Sani Sabik CEO who pestered people in their own corp channels on comms and had to be sent packing? Not that we can expect much better when other members of that corp also pesters people on comms, with ping chains and such nonsense even when the recipients are signaling a do not disturb with the away from comms positions.
I think you're misunderstanding something though. Everyone knows you can't order someone outside of your own corps or alliances, but there is absolutely nothing that says you can't voice criticism, disgust or disapproval of things like complete lack of standards, lack of focus, lack of priorities and generally doing more harm than good.
Of course, the fact that you are a better fit among the Amarr where scum like you belong is probably not surprising. In the Tribes we don't tend to cater to dishonesty and glassy smiles "diplomatically" hiding the honest truth and disapproval. We honestly tell you when you're a cancer.
Well, some of us do. The ones that don't tend to fall to the wayside. |
ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan
Of Questionable Repute
849
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 17:45:21 -
[94] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Ah yes, the Sani Sabik CEO who pestered people in their own corp channels on comms and had to be sent packing? Not that we can expect much better when other members of that corp also pesters people on comms, with ping chains and such nonsense even when the recipients are signaling a do not disturb with the away from comms positions.
I think you're misunderstanding something though. Everyone knows you can't order someone outside of your own corps or alliances, but there is absolutely nothing that says you can't voice criticism, disgust or disapproval of things like complete lack of standards, lack of focus, lack of priorities and generally doing more harm than good.
Of course, the fact that you are a better fit among the Amarr where scum like you belong is probably not surprising. In the Tribes we don't tend to cater to dishonesty and glassy smiles "diplomatically" hiding the honest truth and disapproval. We honestly tell you when you're a cancer.
Well, some of us do. The ones that don't tend to fall to the wayside.
There have been alot of incidents of my people being banned from communication services, not just the one you are referencing, and several of those based on that persons "associations", we have even had members ejected from fleet since they wanted to use a combat prober. If it were just "voicing criticism" it wouldn't have got to this. You are never around fleets anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't really know any of what is going on, there are pilots who have been in less than two months with more combat history than your entire career with the TLF, so I don't even know where any of this even matters to you Mizhara.
We are making an attempt at working thru differences, and all you are doing is insulting me. I respect Siddhar Gangari, because I see him put forth an effort to understand and put this conflict behind us, and ease tensions within the militia, but you make it very hard to respect you, as it seems like you don't even respect what it is the militia even does. If this war matters so little to you, then why are you even in it? |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office
646
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 18:00:58 -
[95] - Quote
If I still gave a damn about the Militia, I'd despair right about now.
Want some nuts with your intelligence?
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
538
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 18:21:44 -
[96] - Quote
There are differences between working through differences and trying to pretend your history doesn't exist. Of course all I do is insult you. It's all you've earned. Combat pilots infinitely better than any of us don't earn having their crimes erased just because they're good pilots. You are the cause of tension in the militia, as you pull in even more scum like the Sani Sabik and others that are avowed enemies of our people.
Whether or not you respect me is rather irrelevant. Frankly, having your respect would probably be a mark against me, as I'd rather not have the qualities that earn your respect like your Sani Sabik friends and all the previous associations for that matter.
As for why I'm in the TLF, I suggest reading what would now amount to near novel lengths of text I've written on the matter in this and various other threads. It should probably not be difficult to decipher at this point, nor would my lack of fleet attendance. It's been a rather major theme of the last few weeks of posting.
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
538
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 18:23:06 -
[97] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:If I still gave a damn about the Militia, I'd despair right about now.
You do post a lot for someone who don't care. Might as well speak your mind rather than just registering vague and untargeted disapproval. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 19:08:46 -
[98] - Quote
I spoke my mind. I despair over the fact that no one seemed to listen. I apologize if my disapproval was vague - let me make it more clear. You all: stop trying to convince the audience you are the one not doing it wrong. Just stop.
Also, I always posted a lot. I've missed IGS, and being infuriated by Rodj Blake, and smartbomb camps on Osoggur-Amamake, and pod goo in my hair. So I'll post as much as I damned please.
Also, I am still Matari, and I am Sebiestor, even if all those once worthy in this thread I am probably the one most deserving of the traitor label. So I do care. Just not so much about whether the Militia looks good or not.
Else
Want some nuts with your intelligence?
|
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
544
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 19:15:31 -
[99] - Quote
Listen to what, exactly? There's about a dozen different things put forth in this thread alone, and putting forth your own view of a matter isn't exactly claiming it is the unadulterated and unadorned truth. Just that it is the position taken at the time of writing. Are you expecting people to put forth their viewpoint and claim it's the wrong view to hold?
I think my comms unit garbled the latter part of your post. I can't really make heads or tails of it. |
Kalaratiri
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
781
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 19:18:19 -
[100] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Also, I am still Matari, and I am Sebiestor, even if all those once worthy in this thread I am probably the one most deserving of the traitor label.
I think that's probably me!
Teehee
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
|
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
137
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 19:54:35 -
[101] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:Anslo wrote:Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF?
I can confirm that Anslo has a proven track record of attracting and coordinating otherwise uninvolved alliances to fight on behalf of the Minmatar Militia. While there have been many campaigns by the Amarr to "Burn Huola," Anslo deserves a lot of the credit for victory in I believe at least two of these.
He has his flaws, but from time to time his excessive enthusiasm has been directed to great effect.
That said, if I am gathering the themes of the discussion, there are many present that do not think non-loyal capsuleers should be a part of these conflicts, regardless of the side they pick. Sounds highly irresponsible and pitifully idealistic to me. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
544
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 19:59:26 -
[102] - Quote
You do seem to misunderstand, Altaen. There's a difference between non-loyalists and outright enemies. |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
137
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 20:34:08 -
[103] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:You do seem to misunderstand, Altaen. There's a difference between non-loyalists and outright enemies.
I think the issue then, as Kala said, is lack of leadership. It's hard to call anyone an enemy when they shoot exactly what you tell them to. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
544
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 21:01:06 -
[104] - Quote
I'd find it rather easy to call someone an enemy when they have a track record of fighting for the Empire, Sansha and Sani Sabik. This should not be such a controversial stance, really. What is it about capsuleerdom and suddenly having no sense of consequences for ones choices and actions?
I pay for mine and face the consequences of what I've done and will most assuredly do in the future, but it seems this is somehow a notion that should be completely ignored in favor of adding a few more ships to a warzone, as if there's somehow a dearth of psychopaths in eggs out there. |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
138
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 21:31:34 -
[105] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:I'd find it rather easy to call someone an enemy when they have a track record of fighting for the Empire, Sansha and Sani Sabik. This should not be such a controversial stance, really. What is it about capsuleerdom and suddenly having no sense of consequences for ones choices and actions?
I pay for mine and face the consequences of what I've done and will most assuredly do in the future, but it seems this is somehow a notion that should be completely ignored in favor of adding a few more ships to a warzone, as if there's somehow a dearth of psychopaths in eggs out there.
The value of strong leadership is in minimizing the impact of the beliefs, politics, and actions of individuals in favor of focusing their efforts to promote the beliefs, politics, and actions of the leader. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
546
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 21:35:21 -
[106] - Quote
That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. I have no doubt I have the strength to lead, but I don't have the prerequisite patience with fools nor dishonesty required to cajole the fragile egos of necessary middle-managers.
Of course, it'd seem any other potential strong leader have pretty much the same situation facing them. |
Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
88
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 21:37:31 -
[107] - Quote
Keep Bickering! :) |
Kalaratiri
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
782
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 22:18:58 -
[108] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it.
Not actually true. How quickly people forget the days of mighty Iron Oxide., ferocious Late Night, and their many stalwart allies.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
|
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
546
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 22:23:41 -
[109] - Quote
Oh I'm not forgetting them. I'm just pointing out that the leadership bit dwindled before I even joined the TLF. Their rightfully well earned accolades predate that though. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
985
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 01:58:20 -
[110] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. Not actually true. How quickly people forget the days of mighty Iron Oxide., ferocious Late Night, and their many stalwart allies.
Speaking of which, is Iron Oxide still operating these days? I recalled that they used to be everywhere in Eszur.
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
|
Kalaratiri
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
797
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 02:05:17 -
[111] - Quote
The name may exist, but the soul is dead.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
|
Deitra Vess
Scope Works
Psychotic Tendencies.
872
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 02:13:08 -
[112] - Quote
Thought they were just doing the whole pirate thing now... |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
986
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 02:22:51 -
[113] - Quote
Huh. Well, that's...tragic.
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
|
Ottom Ephesianos
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
45
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 05:27:23 -
[114] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. I have no doubt I have the strength to lead, but I don't have the prerequisite patience with fools nor dishonesty required to cajole the fragile egos of necessary middle-managers.
Of course, it'd seem any other potential strong leader have pretty much the same situation facing them.
Take your eyes from these forums and gaze out the window of your starship. May the cosmos reflect your gaze. Underappreciating is the pride of fools.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2362
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 10:33:03 -
[115] - Quote
Altaen wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:Anslo wrote:Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF? I can confirm that Anslo has a proven track record of attracting and coordinating otherwise uninvolved alliances to fight on behalf of the Minmatar Militia. While there have been many campaigns by the Amarr to "Burn Huola," Anslo deserves a lot of the credit for victory in I believe at least two of these. He has his flaws, but from time to time his excessive enthusiasm has been directed to great effect. That said, if I am gathering the themes of the discussion, there are many present that do not think non-loyal capsuleers should be a part of these conflicts, regardless of the side they pick. Sounds highly irresponsible and pitifully idealistic to me.
Well, Huola have been burned and I brought my own torch to help with it. Pity I couldn't help with the hub itself.
Derpslo ran just like all other runmatars. And I heard he ran even faster than them.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan
Of Questionable Repute
852
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 11:20:57 -
[116] - Quote
When Huola fell, we lived in Taff as part of the Blacklist, there was no one of consequence there to defend it. Scope Works left to pursue other things. Say what you will but when it was ScopeMatar that system never fell, and if anyone wants to strut about claming victory over a mostly Undefended system then I don't even know what to say |
Kalo Askold
Sanguis Inceptum
Of Questionable Repute
33
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 09:35:42 -
[117] - Quote
Just came on to say the null refugees keep losing fights in rou and null has yielded cargo. Gloom and doom is still happening. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2375
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 11:22:16 -
[118] - Quote
Maria Daphiti wrote:Keep Bickering! :)
Bick bick!
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
557
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 13:42:59 -
[119] - Quote
Well, it should come as no surprise there's "gloom and doom" when Val and her friends take fleets to fight GalMil alongside her Pyre allies. I just wish it was a surprise, really. |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works
Psychotic Tendencies.
877
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 13:50:58 -
[120] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Well, it should come as no surprise there's "gloom and doom" when Val and her friends take fleets to fight GalMil alongside her Pyre allies. I just wish it was a surprise, really.
When they do that? Only thing I can think of was when they deployed to battle sansha in combined ops. |
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