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The downfall of Minmatar Militia

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Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 24	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:42:51 - [1] - Quote Its with a not so heavy heart that I say this but the minmatar militia is going towards a downward spiral. Where once we would defend systems we shall instead attack and bait PL gank fleets into cyno-inhib systems. Instead of coordenating with others we rather laugh and drink between roams of making the kill count higher. Instead of fighting amarr we have been inviting some in the other militias to run silent night ops, roam in capsuleer owned space, and even help with black ops. If this keeps up Minmatar will resemble a pirate gang, a place for anyone to be accepted, make isk, and even find new friends. To this I say we must reverse the course. We must wardeck eachother, stop looting the hard workers in their own sov, and return to the point where spinning around recycled outposts are the main priorities of min-mil fleets. Nevermind the Empress is dead, civil war is more likely with every drifter incursion hammering the Amarr navy, and Khanid waying options within the Empire. Min-mil is doomed. #2lc killed it
Lowhyres Remember The Fallen. Starkmanir Unification 15	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:56:37 - [2] - Quote Im still waiting for amarr to put real effort into the warzone. Just suxs they are like rats, and their everywhere :( i will say, everytime we lose a system, i get another mail about trying to work together with other groups in minmil. So maybe after another 20 systems, minmil might be on atleast the same page lol 2Lazy to carry
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 853	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:00:15 - [3] - Quote Thus the cycle begins again anew. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Ottom Ephesianos Mirkur Draug'Tyr 44	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:29:57 - [4] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: Thus the cycle begins again anew. The cycle most likely to break is the Minmatar cycle.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 855	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:33:37 - [5] - Quote What the ****? I leave for a month and.... What?
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 763	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:00:07 - [6] - Quote Minmil doesn't agree with Kalo. Kalo doesn't agree with Minmil. /thread. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 855	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:07:03 - [7] - Quote Oh..... Well then.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 79	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:09:51 - [8] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Oh..... Well then. Consider this a blessing in disguise. We can now choose the career choices we always wanted to pursue. I can become a potter and you can be a rust metal vocalist.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 25	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:09:58 - [9] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Minmil doesn't agree with Kalo. Kalo doesn't agree with Minmil. /thread. Only half don't want to stand with me the other half are too lazy to stand with me. The neutrals follow me for whatever reason.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 522	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:10:29 - [10] - Quote Oh, MinMil doesn't give a ****. The few Matari who remain in it does. Edit: Well, of course I shouldn't disregard all the non-Matari who just dislikes Kalo because she's frankly just unlikable and mentally deranged.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 974	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:12:59 - [11] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: What the ****? I leave for a month and.... What? DOOM! GLOOM! END TIMES! RAGE! Seriously though, didn't OP describe the TLF as it was some three years ago before AND after I terminated my contract with the TLF? I guess some things never change. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 855	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:19:02 - [12] - Quote Well true, you left Biohazard though and there actively was a civil war, not just high and mighty people passing their job along.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 522	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:21:33 - [13] - Quote I think you misunderstand, Elmund. The OP here is trying to lampoon her detractors.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 25	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:28:57 - [14] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I think you misunderstand, Elmund. The OP here is trying to lampoon her detractors. My detractors? No, that's what militia chat is for. This is more about the other thread about the Amarr, every militia is in a constant flux of winning, losing, and not caring enough to do anything other than to make isk.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 975	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:29:49 - [15] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Well true, you left Biohazard though and there actively was a civil war, not just high and mighty people passing their job along. Yeah, I left before I had to shoot more Minmatar than I already did. I'm not about to shed the blood of former allies because of something we started. Just that one time with the POSes and no more. That's far enough for me. Just thinking about that day we shot at the POSes still gives me a prickling sensation in my head. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 855	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:39:46 - [16] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Yeah, I left before I had to shoot more Minmatar than I already did. I'm not about to shed the blood of former allies because of something we started. Just that one time with the POSes and no more. That's far enough for me. Just thinking about that day we shot at the POSes still gives me a prickling sensation in my head. Ya, can't say I blame ya. What a pointless war that was.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 975	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:47:58 - [17] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Yeah, I left before I had to shoot more Minmatar than I already did. I'm not about to shed the blood of former allies because of something we started. Just that one time with the POSes and no more. That's far enough for me. Just thinking about that day we shot at the POSes still gives me a prickling sensation in my head. Ya, can't say I blame ya. What a pointless war that was. Times like these make me regret not being dead drunk 24/7. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 840	Posted - 2016.01.13 03:41:57 - [18] - Quote It is with a heavy heart I have to agree with Kalo, more and more the milita cries out it is #2Lazy to stop pirating, #2Lazy to fly Minmatar only docrtrine, and #2Lazy to even capture complexes anymore. All they do is shoot others and make isk. These people, they need to be stopped.
Anyanka Funk Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 612	Posted - 2016.01.13 03:44:43 - [19] - Quote I'm agreeing with my heavy heart that I will be glad when the civil wars start. Minmatar taste so much better than Amarrians!
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2320	Posted - 2016.01.13 03:53:07 - [20] - Quote So, minmatars are pirates. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 976	Posted - 2016.01.13 03:56:50 - [21] - Quote Anyanka Funk wrote: I'm agreeing with my heavy heart that I will be glad when the civil wars start. Minmatar taste so much better than Amarrians! I remember that incident being about alot of nothing much going on (besides the skirmishes and the ganks and the like) and lots of the usual bellyaching and drama. By the end of it, WINMATAR. moved over to the Amarr side. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
unbless83 Tribal Rites Starkmanir Unification 26	Posted - 2016.01.13 04:16:32 - [22] - Quote I will no longer support the concord sanctioned capture of pockets of space. This activity is does nothing to satiate my need for vengeance and i very much doubt that i am alone in feeling this way. Orbiting a beacon 300 or more times is boring, it is more mundane than the mining of rocks. I've been supporting the Matari cause since YC112 and one thing above all is clear to me now. The sovereignty of a solar system should be weighed by the blood of the fallen alone. System sovereignty should be based on: kills per faction over x period of time, modified by a dust activity ratio. Systems available for capture should be adjacent to one another to enable a "front line" and compress the intensity of fighting. This would also enable interdiction fleets to impact supply lines due to the predictable nature of any resupply movements. Giving rise to opportunities for the hit and run operations that minmatar hulls were designed for in the first place. Anything less than shooting amarrian capsuleer piloted vessels for control of space... does NOT get my support. To avenge and unify the tribes through the attrition of the amarrian oppressors is why i signed up. I did not sign up to find my inner miner. Aussies are the unicorns of eve... rare and horny
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 639	Posted - 2016.01.13 08:16:56 - [23] - Quote Here we go again. Toy war still fulfills its purpose, I see. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 523	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:24:33 - [24] - Quote Does it? It is just a pity the norm in New Eden is dishonesty. If honest admission that it is mere bloodsport and distraction would be more common, at least it wouldn't be used as justification for throwing out what we are and can be over pointless victories. It is even starting to lose its usefulness as an arena to set an example in at this rate.
Malasar Ravaan House Ravaan Imperial Holdings 1	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:28:51 - [25] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: Its with a not so heavy heart that I say this but the minmatar militia is going towards a downward spiral...If this keeps up Minmatar will resemble a pirate gang Petty bands of unwashed, tattooed tribal savages flying rusted heaps of junk has always and will always resemble a pirate gang, with the exception that most pirate gangs are better organized.
Seraphim Risen Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 61	Posted - 2016.01.13 12:51:48 - [26] - Quote Downfall? Honey, its always been like that. Almost half a decade ago I fought for the TLF. I disagreed with a FC who had friends in a semi-powerful alliance living in... ****. Was it Huola? Lamaa? I don't remember. Anyway, all of a sudden, I found myself the target of multiple declarations of war. Disagreement was over his pirate roots. The factional wars are a sham meant only to fatten the pockets of the Empires funding them. Its all bullshit. Never not badpost.
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 765	Posted - 2016.01.13 15:32:46 - [27] - Quote Malasar Ravaan wrote: Kalo Askold wrote: Its with a not so heavy heart that I say this but the minmatar militia is going towards a downward spiral...If this keeps up Minmatar will resemble a pirate gang Petty bands of unwashed, tattooed tribal savages flying rusted heaps of junk has always and will always resemble a pirate gang, with the exception that most pirate gangs are better organized. I'm going to take that as a compliment She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2326	Posted - 2016.01.13 16:35:27 - [28] - Quote Seraphim Risen wrote: Downfall? Honey, its always been like that. Almost half a decade ago I fought for the TLF. I disagreed with a FC who had friends in a semi-powerful alliance living in... **. Was it Huola? Lamaa? I don't remember. Anyway, all of a sudden, I found myself the target of multiple declarations of war. Disagreement was over his pirate roots. Well known typical minmatar behavior: "So, our neighbor A have bought themselves an expensive vase S for their house. We can't have this S, so lets go their home and thrash it a bit for that!" That works even in minmatar external politics, where A would be Amarr Empire and S would be Slavery. Seraphim Risen wrote:** The factional wars are a sham meant only to fatten the pockets of the Empires funding them. Its all bullshit. If some crap is true for tribals it doesn't mean it would be true for such well developed and advanced society as Caldari State. Thus don't put all faction wars in one bucket. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Siddhar Gangari Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan 48	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:47:15 - [29] - Quote Says the twerp that takes her fleets into null rather than the warzone. Shame on you. You're no better than the Amarr.
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 767	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:50:54 - [30] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Seraphim Risen wrote: The factional wars are a sham meant only to fatten the pockets of the Empires funding them. Its all bullshit. If some crap is true for tribals it doesn't mean it would be true for such well developed and advanced society as Caldari State. Thus don't put all faction wars in one bucket. A people are struggling against an oppressive regime that has driven them from their ancestral homes and attempted to destroy their culture. Now they fight back in an attempt to regain what was taken from them. Which people am I talking about Diana? She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Ria Nieyli 38752	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:04:53 - [31] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Seraphim Risen wrote: The factional wars are a sham meant only to fatten the pockets of the Empires funding them. Its all bullshit. If some crap is true for tribals it doesn't mean it would be true for such well developed and advanced society as Caldari State. Thus don't put all faction wars in one bucket. A people are struggling against an oppressive regime that has driven them from their ancestral homes and attempted to destroy their culture. Now they fight back in an attempt to regain what was taken from them. Which people am I talking about Diana? Khanid?
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 30	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:35:17 - [32] - Quote Siddhar Gangari wrote: Says the twerp that takes her fleets into null rather than the warzone. Shame on you. You're no better than the Amarr. And I would say to you, shame on you for not teaching your pilots everything they can learn from Lowsec to Nullsec. You just keep them spinning buttons and learning nothing more than blood sport instead of the space around them. However, you don't run any sort of fleets nor command people.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2395	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:43:31 - [33] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Here we go again. Toy war still fulfills its purpose, I see. In that it prevents all-out war, yes it does. Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Ria Nieyli 38754	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:46:36 - [34] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: Siddhar Gangari wrote: Says the twerp that takes her fleets into null rather than the warzone. Shame on you. You're no better than the Amarr. And I would say to you, shame on you for not teaching your pilots everything they can learn from Lowsec to Nullsec. You just keep them spinning buttons and learning nothing more than blood sport instead of the space around them. However, you don't run any sort of fleets nor command people. Being in the warzone is not just spinning buttons. The above post has been approved by the Caldari Bureau of Proper Spelling and Garmur
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32304	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:47:18 - [35] - Quote Thaaaanks for memberrrrs MinMiiiiillll~ [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Siddhar Gangari Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan 48	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:52:05 - [36] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: Siddhar Gangari wrote: Says the twerp that takes her fleets into null rather than the warzone. Shame on you. You're no better than the Amarr. And I would say to you, shame on you for not teaching your pilots everything they can learn from Lowsec to Nullsec. You just keep them spinning buttons and learning nothing more than blood sport instead of the space around them. However, you don't run any sort of fleets nor command people. The fact remains that you do nothing to support the war effort. If the shallow (in my humble opinion) pursuit of kill marks for your hull is what interests you, by all means pursue it. But do so without luring people who wish to contribute away from a long-term goal that requires vision and cooperation to complete. Retire from the war, pirate. The TLF and its supporters will be better for it.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 30	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:03:38 - [37] - Quote Siddhar Gangari wrote: And I would say to you, shame on you for not teaching your pilots everything they can learn from Lowsec to Nullsec. You just keep them spinning buttons and learning nothing more than blood sport instead of the space around them. However, you don't run any sort of fleets nor command people. The fact remains that you do nothing to support the war effort. If the shallow (in my humble opinion) pursuit of kill marks for your hull is what interests you, by all means pursue it. But do so without luring people who wish to contribute away from a long-term goal that requires vision and cooperation to complete. Retire from the war, pirate. The TLF and its supporters will be better for it.[/quote] Much like a child who thinks the father does nothing during the day for the family because they are out working all the time, so you too assume I have done nothing for 'ourside' because you haven't seen it. Kill marks on my ship, please I lose them all the time and rarely able to shoot before the min-mil kills them. Need to run a fleet and not enough members, I have rallied to help hurt Amarr staging towers. Need a dread to run away, sure I'll be there with friends. Need help killing a fleet in a system? Yep there. Need help spinning buttons of recycled outposts because concord told you it was ok? I rather go do something else.
Seraphim Risen Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 62	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:11:55 - [38] - Quote Wait, so which doy ou want? People to fight for the Republic or people to go to nullsec with you? You're not arguing any logical point here. As far as the other goes, Diana, I regularly witness members of all four militias pirating and aggressing others with no provocation. *****, please. Don't lecture me with your Reality Distortion Field in effect- it shows every time you say anything. Never not badpost.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 30	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:15:17 - [39] - Quote Seraphim Risen wrote: Wait, so which doy ou want? People to fight for the Republic or people to go to nullsec with you? You're not arguing any logical point here. As far as the other goes, Diana, I regularly witness members of all four militias pirating and aggressing others with no provocation. *****, please. Don't lecture me with your Reality Distortion Field in effect- it shows every time you say anything. Militia doesn't fight for the republic, they fight for ISK and that is about it. Its a training ground and a place to learn how to use the weapons before the actual navies call for help. If people believe what they are doing in the militia actually matters they are simply fooling themselves into sleeping well at night.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 842	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:21:47 - [40] - Quote Siddhar Gangari wrote: The fact remains that you do nothing to support the war effort. If the shallow (in my humble opinion) pursuit of kill marks for your hull is what interests you, by all means pursue it. But do so without luring people who wish to contribute away from a long-term goal that requires vision and cooperation to complete. Retire from the war, pirate. The TLF and its supporters will be better for it. Amusing, since no one is forced to go anywhere or be in any fleet. The pilots of the TLF can make their own choices, you don't own them, if they choose to join a fleet raiding slavers in providence, or supporting a fight over a moon, how is that even any of your business? You make it sound nefarious as if KS7RL FCs work against your goals, but what exact goal is it anyway? A medal? Do you think that is going to do anything for our people? Ria Nieyli wrote: Being in the warzone is not just spinning buttons. To be fair you are missing the context of the discussion, on the 2LC side, we are regularly (as evidenced in this thread) told we are "no better than the Amarr" because our primary activity isn't running buttons, but pursuing fights, wherever those fights might be.
Siddhar Gangari Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan 48	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:22:11 - [41] - Quote And what will all of that accomplish? The enemy will never die out. They are immortal just like us; they will rebuild their ships and towers given enough time. All that you have just described is meaningless if no territory is taken. I agree that the current system used to capture and reinforce infrastructures is tedious at times, but it's what needs to be done if we are to make any gains. This conversation has, I think, revealed a solution to remedy this grave disconnect and infighting in the Militia. Balance and cooperation must be restored if we're going to "win" this. I see now, Kalo, that you're not the problem - not entirely. Message me if you're willing to help restore cooperation. I've said all I've needed to say about this for now; do not bother me if you're not serious about fixing what is broken. To Valentina: [/quote]A medal? Do you think that is going to do anything for our people?[/quote] No not, a medal. For the enslaved brothers and sisters forced to serve the Amarr in systems so close to their homeland. Complete liberation of the WZ will give us the opportunity to free a great number of slaves - greater than any number rescued from convoys or orbital plantations. Do not think me shallow; my only goal is unity.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 639	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:27:18 - [42] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Here we go again. Toy war still fulfills its purpose, I see. In that it prevents all-out war, yes it does. I was just about to jump in and explain. Thanks for sparing me the trouble. It was always somewhat tragic that pretty much the only person in space I never had to explain my politics to was Rodj-bloody-Blake, Admiral of PIE Inc. Else Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 861	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:28:29 - [43] - Quote Unless I'm mistaken didn't U'K at one time have some operations in Great Wildlands? What exactly is the problem with people learning the ins and outs of other forms of combat? Having gone on a few of Kalo's fleets, a lot of the people in the TLF were clueless about how to actually conduct themselves out there. I'm not saying ignoring everything daily is a good thing but how are people supposed to improve if they sit in their comfort zones all the time? You want progress yet you propose to hinder improvement by funneling them into the norms. Complacency kills. Personally I'd say forcing everyone to exclusively use Tormenters on mandatory Provi roams would be better for developing our up and coming warriors than having them grow too comfortable with whats around them. What military now a days doesn't train for things other than what is expected?
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 844	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:36:44 - [44] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Unless I'm mistaken didn't U'K at one time have some operations in Great Wildlands? What exactly is the problem with people learning the ins and outs of other forms of combat? Having gone on a few of Kalo's fleets, a lot of the people in the TLF were clueless about how to actually conduct themselves out there. I'm not saying ignoring everything daily is a good thing but how are people supposed to improve if they sit in their comfort zones all the time? You want progress yet you propose to hinder improvement by funneling them into the norms. Complacency kills. Personally I'd say forcing everyone to exclusively use Tormenters on mandatory Provi roams would be better for developing our up and coming warriors than having them grow too comfortable with whats around them. What military now a days doesn't train for things other than what is expected? Absolutely! And I would like to add that in addition to attacking slavers in Providence and the Warzone, Sanguis Inceptum has been doing a wonderful job of hitting them in the Throne Worlds themselves despite Concord, and the Amarr Navy. We are Minmatar we can go anywhere we want. There should be no where the Amarr feel totally safe from us.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:43:22 - [45] - Quote You are about as Minmatar as Rodj Blake, Nauplius and those animals you've brought into your alliance.
Ria Nieyli 38778	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:59:25 - [46] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: To be fair you are missing the context of the discussion, on the 2LC side, we are regularly (as evidenced in this thread) told we are "no better than the Amarr" because our primary activity isn't running buttons, but pursuing fights, wherever those fights might be. I'm not good at contexting. Or subtexting. You get the idea. This post has been approved by the Caldari Bureau of Proper Spelling and Garmur.
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32305	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:04:43 - [47] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: You are about as Minmatar as Rodj Blake, Nauplius and those animals you've brought into your alliance. "Yeah quit crowding my scene man, I'm way more Minmatar than you. I was one of the first Minmatar capsuleers. Y'all are just posers!" This is what I read. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:12:57 - [48] - Quote Sounds like you need to learn how to read, Anslo. My own heritage and history hardly lends itself towards being more than an adoptee. The only thing not in question is my loyalties.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 30	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:30:00 - [49] - Quote I like this thread, people are just venting all their anger.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:31:05 - [50] - Quote Anslo got a classmate, it'd appear.
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32307	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:32:50 - [51] - Quote For someone so keen to get on people's cases for fighting for 'muh republic,' you sure have sporadic as ** activity. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]**
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:37:03 - [52] - Quote I have next to no activity at all, these days. Damn near every fleet has a mix of Sansha or Sani Sabik in them, and it's common knowledge I neither like nor are any good at soloing. You'll note I've mentioned this quite a few times before. Don't try and make it sound like I want people to fight for the Republic, though. That I've never said. I personally fight for the Tribes and I honestly couldn't give a toss if anyone else fights in the proxy war or not. It's about who you fly with and what you fly for.
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32307	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:40:56 - [53] - Quote So basically everyone's standards are wrong except yours? [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:47:34 - [54] - Quote Some standards are obviously non-existent, but that'll have to be their own matter to handle. My own standards are fairly simple. I don't fly with the enemies of my people, or those who would be shot on sight by my clan and tribe. It'll have to be up to everyone else to act by their own standards. Does someone having different standards than you offend you so, Anslo? Is it uncomfortable to see that someone still holds to principles in New Eden? Most telling.
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32307	Posted - 2016.01.13 20:49:23 - [55] - Quote Translation: NO U But really, *** about people not doing enough, then you don't do enough cause you can't adapt to situations and swallow your pride or ~standards~ for the better of your people. My. Sides. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]**
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:07:49 - [56] - Quote If you find a quote about me saying people aren't doing enough that's not ancient history, I'll pay you for it. More interestingly, what exactly do you think the militias are "doing for the better of my people"? The staircase has been in place and working since long before the militias ever existed. Tell me, how would my people benefit from me flying with the enemies of my people?
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 861	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:27:04 - [57] - Quote Mizhara, do you value the beliefs and ideals of the guns on your ship? No right? They are tools of war. As such is those profiteers and other undesirables fighting beside you. Who cares about their belief? When were done (the "wargames" I mean) and well throw them out as such. By rights they'll probably throw themselves out and return to curse, ect.
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 862	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:31:06 - [58] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Mizhara, do you value the beliefs and ideals of the guns on your ship? No right? They are tools of war. As such is those profiteers and other undesirables fighting beside you. Who cares about their belief? When were done (the "wargames" I mean) and well throw them out as such. By rights they'll probably throw themselves out and return to curse, ect. Respectfully speaking, I think if the end of the militia wars happened, you might regret these words. Without the proxy war to keep them busy, I dread to think what some of the extreme elements on both sides of the fence would get up to to occupy their time and guns. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32309	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:32:07 - [59] - Quote The whole 'MinMil doesn't give a **' sound like you're not happy with what they do, or any progress they make. But maybe it's not they don't do enough, more you're just too much of an elitist or something. Like, re-reading what you posted, you're basically saying militia isn't Minmatar enough. Fighting the other side isn't enough. You have to be way more Minmatar as per your criteria. Which is pants on head **** to be honest family. But whatever, keep sitting there, contributing nothing but * post after * post instead of undocking and doing something about it. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]**
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32309	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:32:54 - [60] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Mizhara, do you value the beliefs and ideals of the guns on your ship? No right? They are tools of war. As such is those profiteers and other undesirables fighting beside you. Who cares about their belief? When were done (the "wargames" I mean) and well throw them out as such. By rights they'll probably throw themselves out and return to curse, ect. Respectfully speaking, I think if the end of the militia wars happened, you might regret these words. Without the proxy war to keep them busy, I dread to think what some of the extreme elements on both sides of the fence would get up to to occupy their time and guns. Miz would probably get involved in blasting another freighter full of slaves or something. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 861	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:33:25 - [61] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Mizhara, do you value the beliefs and ideals of the guns on your ship? No right? They are tools of war. As such is those profiteers and other undesirables fighting beside you. Who cares about their belief? When were done (the "wargames" I mean) and well throw them out as such. By rights they'll probably throw themselves out and return to curse, ect. Respectfully speaking, I think if the end of the militia wars happened, you might regret these words. Without the proxy war to keep them busy, I dread to think what some of the extreme elements on both sides of the fence would get up to to occupy their time and guns. Can't say I disagree with ya, though I've often seen the proxy wars as training for jus that....
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 526	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:33:26 - [62] - Quote Weapons need to be measured versus the targets. You don't use orbital bombardment to suppress minor riots and you don't fly with Sansha or Sani Sabik to take meaningless proxy war systems. Especially given the kind of atrocious example that would set for baseliner supporters.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 861	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:36:45 - [63] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Weapons need to be measured versus the targets. You don't use orbital bombardment to suppress minor riots and you don't fly with Sansha or Sani Sabik to take meaningless proxy war systems. Especially given the kind of atrocious example that would set for baseliner supporters. I........ Can't really argue that. My apologies for questioning ya.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 527	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:39:41 - [64] - Quote Don't apologize for it. Any stance is worth questioning and critiquing. If it is untenable, it will have to be abandoned. If it is worth standing for, it'll hold up to scrutiny. I can't change any ways of mine that might be erroneous if people don't question and point out their flaws.
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32309	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:40:28 - [65] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Weapons need to be measured versus the targets. You don't use orbital bombardment to suppress minor riots YOU might not. Doesn't mean others can't. Quote: you don't fly with Sansha or Sani Sabik to take meaningless proxy war systems. Meaningless? So the few people that live there aren't worth a damn? Not worth fighting for? Who cares about them even though their 'your people,' amirite? Holy hell can you go back and disappear into the dumpster you hid in for the last few years? [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 769	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:42:45 - [66] - Quote If you care so much, why aren't you in the TLF Anslo? She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32309	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:43:40 - [67] - Quote DIDN'T YOU HEAR THE TLF IS DEAD OH GODS IT'S DEAD AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 769	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:45:41 - [68] - Quote Got an actual answer? She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 527	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:46:06 - [69] - Quote If you think who holds proxy war systems have even the slightest effect on the baseliner population in those systems, you're hilariously misinformed, Anslo. The only thing that changes in the systems is which capsuleers make money off it and can dock there. Besides, like I've already mentioned, we've had the staircase in place since long before the proxy war started. The TLF never even entered into it. If anything, being in the TLF makes it more difficult to care for our own in the warzone.
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 32309	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:46:31 - [70] - Quote Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 639	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:46:51 - [71] - Quote I think you just did. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 769	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:50:54 - [72] - Quote Anslo wrote: Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF? She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 861	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:54:20 - [73] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Anslo wrote: Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF? Is anything really lasting in the proxy war? Before the fall of huola 2 years ago alot of good was done (my corp at the time left the militia as it was kicking off). That's part of the reason I joined them initially.
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 770	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:00:10 - [74] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Kalaratiri wrote: Anslo wrote: Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF? Is anything really lasting in the proxy war? Before the fall of huola 2 years ago alot of good was done (my corp at the time left the militia as it was kicking off). That's part of the reason I joined them initially. That is my exact point. It's all very well people saying "Well, my contribution was much more important than yours", but when nothing lasts longer than 6 months or a year in these wonderful wars of ours, what's the point? You're bickering over who's the biggest shrimp in the rock pool, while hungry fish wait for the tide to come in. In my opinion, a single 3 hour excursion into the Drifter hives by Makoto's bunch has more impact on the cluster than 3 months of fighting over a constellation in the Bleak Lands. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 529	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:17:50 - [75] - Quote I have no doubt she's achieved a great deal more than all eight years of proxy wars combined, Kalaratiri. This is why I find the notion of sacrificing principle and honor for a marginally bigger chance at taking or defending a system to be abhorrent. It'd be a sacrifice for essentially nothing. There are few extremes I can't envisage myself going to in the right situations and for the right causes, but it'd take some significant changes to the proxy wars for them to require such measures.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5833	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:50:01 - [76] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: There are few extremes I can't envisage myself going to in the right situations and for the right causes, but it'd take some significant changes to the proxy wars for them to require such measures. I know I'm guilty by association, but I've never understood the idea that using dubious assets to achieve your goals renders those goals unclean in some way. Those people were going to be shooting SOMEONE and we made them shoot the enemy instead of our friends. Goals were met. Statistics posted. Quotas were filled. I sleep perfectly fine, thanks very much. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 530	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:59:37 - [77] - Quote I suspect you do. The problem is that I wouldn't, because I would have no place to sleep. My clan would disown me rather quickly for allying with enemies that seek their destruction, and rightfully so. However, this is not the main issue. The goal is not system control. Oh, that's why we undock and fight and it's the measurable metric of success, but it's not the goal of what I do in faction warfare. Any victory I make there is rendered irrelevant by the fact that we still have absolutely no impact on the dirtside matters in those systems, thanks to CONCORD limitations on capsuleers and what we can do. The only thing I can truly positively affect up here is those on the ground looking up at us. I can set an example. I can show what a Matari will do and what they will not do. I can perhaps inspire. Betraying everything a Matari is for a worthless metric of bloodsport success? It'd be the equivalent of a soldier fighting an actual war shooting himself in the head as far as 'attaining the goal' would be concerned.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5833	Posted - 2016.01.13 23:11:50 - [78] - Quote Who would you not work with to free your people? I have to ask. I suppose I'm suffering from a lack of existential threat. As bad as the war with the Gallente has been in the past, even with the tragedy over Home a couple of years ago, that war isn't this war - and the Federation isn't seriously talking about or even considering invading State space. If I thought the Federation had billions of State citizens in chains, I suppose I'd do anything to free them. It would also inform all my strategic planning. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 531	Posted - 2016.01.13 23:25:27 - [79] - Quote The lengths I'd go to for freeing my people? I don't think I know the extent of that. I have trouble imagining anything I wouldn't do for that goal. That's not a goal I can achieve alone though. No matter how much power and wealth I'd amass, it'd be dwarfed by what any of our nations could field, even if I could directly target many of the Empire assets. The strategy is simpler. Inspire and promote the necessity for victory among the baseliners. Fund and promote movement which can translate into political pressure for taking action. We can safely ignore pretty much anything capsuleers do and want, because we can't actually affect much at all in the Empire or among the Tribes. Get enough among the Tribes to care about saving our own, and we can change the face of New Eden. The tactics involved are of course not something I'd elaborate too much about on the IGS, as it'd be rather easily countered. If the proxy war actually mattered and winning it would free my people? I don't think there would be limits to what I would do to achieve that. That goal would make sacrificing principle, honor and the tattered shreds of my spirit worth it. As it does not... well, I'll save what I have for when it is needed.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 845	Posted - 2016.01.14 00:41:14 - [80] - Quote Anslo wrote: Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Some days, I really miss being in the Huola Coalition, fighting for our people from Scope Works, we did good work.
Siddhar Gangari Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan 48	Posted - 2016.01.14 03:43:35 - [81] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: I like this thread, people are just venting all their anger. I think this is actually a discussion that very much needed to happen. People are angry and frustrated, but at least we're finally getting that out of the way so we can fix what is broken. Which is almost everything.
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 774	Posted - 2016.01.14 03:57:38 - [82] - Quote Ooh, I want a go. OK, how to start.. Sorry, I'm just going to write these as they come to me. The TLF suffers from... A complete lack of centralised, coherent leadership, Vicious backbiting and petty feuds among those who could perform those duties, An impressive lack of unified direction, Far too many conflicting "command" channels, half of which die and reform every two months, Very few solid doctrines, and almost nothing heavier than a cruiser, Big egos on little people, coupled with an unearned sense of entitlement and elitism from the "old guard", Confusingly conflicting advice given to new pilots as to what they should be training for, leading to pilots who half-know how to fly 5 different doctrines, A sense of "I'm more patriotic/Minmatar/worthy than you", leading to groups refusing to work together to both their detriment, There's definitely more, but that will do for now. What y'all need is a good old fashioned Dictator with some hard arsed lieutenants to whip y'all into shape. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 978	Posted - 2016.01.14 04:09:07 - [83] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Ooh, I want a go. OK, how to start.. Sorry, I'm just going to write these as they come to me. The TLF suffers from... A complete lack of centralised, coherent leadership, Vicious backbiting and petty feuds among those who could perform those duties, An impressive lack of unified direction, Far too many conflicting "command" channels, half of which die and reform every two months, Very few solid doctrines, and almost nothing heavier than a cruiser, Big egos on little people, coupled with an unearned sense of entitlement and elitism from the "old guard", Confusingly conflicting advice given to new pilots as to what they should be training for, leading to pilots who half-know how to fly 5 different doctrines, A sense of "I'm more patriotic/Minmatar/worthy than you", leading to groups refusing to work together to both their detriment, There's definitely more, but that will do for now. What y'all need is a good old fashioned Dictator with some hard arsed lieutenants to whip y'all into shape. Are these not the same issues found in every militia? Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 775	Posted - 2016.01.14 04:24:35 - [84] - Quote Interestingly, no. While all militias do have a certain degree of disorganisation due to their nature, several of the militias, most notably the Gallente and Amarr, have a core group that have risen above the petty bickering so frequent elsewhere. For the Amarr, this is mostly because they only actually have about three large groups of legitimate influence who have to deal with each other. This keeps tensions relatively low. The Gallente on the otherhand are without a doubt the most organised militia at a strategic level, with five or six large groups working together when required to form a respectably substantial and well organised force. Bebop, Villore, RDRAW, and the others around them are strong enough to even challenge the mighty pirate groups such as Snuff Box and Shadow Cartel on occasion. Minmil can barely challenge itself. Calmil is somewhere in the middle, partly because of its comparatively huge size as a militia, and partly because it's broken into smaller groups than the large Gallente and Amarrian alliances. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 978	Posted - 2016.01.14 04:29:18 - [85] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Interestingly, no. While all militias do have a certain degree of disorganisation due to their nature, several of the militias, most notably the Gallente and Amarr, have a core group that have risen above the petty bickering so frequent elsewhere. For the Amarr, this is mostly because they only actually have about three large groups of legitimate influence who have to deal with each other. This keeps tensions relatively low. The Gallente on the otherhand are without a doubt the most organised militia at a strategic level, with five or six large groups working together when required to form a respectably substantial and well organised force. Bebop, Villore, RDRAW, and the others around them are strong enough to even challenge the mighty pirate groups such as Snuff Box and Shadow Cartel on occasion. Minmil can barely challenge itself. Calmil is somewhere in the middle, partly because of its comparatively huge size as a militia, and partly because it's broken into smaller groups than the large Gallente and Amarrian alliances. I will take this into account when dealing with fellow privateers. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 775	Posted - 2016.01.14 04:36:05 - [86] - Quote Glad to be of service. I do love a good bit of political analysis. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5839	Posted - 2016.01.14 06:08:28 - [87] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Glad to be of service. I do love a good bit of political analysis. Insightful as always, Kala. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 535	Posted - 2016.01.14 06:44:06 - [88] - Quote Other than the :bitter: at "the old guard" I'll certainly have to agree with her on all counts, particularly the lack of organization. Of course, none of it has been much of a secret or not understood since long before I joined. Old news, but oddly almost never spoken of until someone ragequits and tells everyone why.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2330	Posted - 2016.01.14 10:53:51 - [89] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Ooh, I want a go. OK, how to start.. Sorry, I'm just going to write these as they come to me. The TLF suffers from... Runmatars. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 641	Posted - 2016.01.14 11:47:34 - [90] - Quote Folks; Fact is this: you cannot impose organization when you cannot enforce consequences. All you can do about organization is to offer it. Between capsuleers, pretty much the only consequence you can enforce, ever, is firing the offensive member. Anything else requires an agreement with the capsuleer that they will willingly submit to any punishment or consequence you deem necessary - they can always walk out, if they do not like your ideas. In the Militias, you cannot do even that. It follows that there is no such thing as "Minmatar Militia", beyond the toy-war CONCORD-sanctioned legalese that dictates who can shoot who under what terms. Same holds for other Militias. Let me repeat that: Militias as coherent groups do not exist, and there is no way you can make them exist. For you to have that power, CONCORD would have to give an indie capsuleer the right to determine who is in a militia and who is not - and they are not going to do that, given that the whole purpose of Militias is to limit the war. Once you accept that, you can start working on it. If the Mary Militia really works better than ours - and there is always the possibility that it actually does not, but it's just once again mostly about the fact that the Tribes are less afraid of disagreeing out loud than certain more delicate peoples - it is because they figure this out and work from it. You will never command "the Militia". You might be able to command a sizable part of it, but never the Militia as a whole. You offer what you have; you include those who are interested; and most importantly you ignore those who are not. If what you are doing is good and easily available, people will come. Some people will talk crap about your effort, but if you simply let them be, they will not stop the sensible folks from noticing you. If what you have is not good, it will not become good by trying to coax or coerce everyone to join it. And now you can all proceed to hate me for being all haughty about giving advice from my bittervet seat when I am not willing to do the work myself. Oh, IGS, never change. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 848	Posted - 2016.01.14 16:57:08 - [91] - Quote To be fair, since we formed a coalition with doctrines, it's own fleet/Intel channels, direct lines between other coalition leadership, etc we have been able to largely avoid those problems at the cost of not only cutting out the vast majority of the Milita with the exception of opening fleets up, but also at the cost of vastly increased tensions. Apparently just having an "us" leads people to an "us versus them" scenario. Imagine my surprise when I am informed one of the CEOs was banned from communications services with the message "traitorous scum confirmed". So it does very much seem if one wants to solve the issues that are present, that there are certainly those who will create a bitter backlash against that. A great deal of the venting in this thread has been a response to that backlash. Tensions however would be greatly eased if people understood no one is "in charge" of the TLF forces and that if you don't agree with what a group is doing make your own, and run it how you like, don't try to dictate to people you aren't in control of how they can conduct their fight. I know in my previous expierence with Amarr, Dirt and Glitter couldn't care less when Pyre would go into null for a day to shoot those people, or if we weren't gonna deplex kourmonen, etc. So this whole situation has taken me quite by surprise. That just seemed obvious, you can't tell people in other alliances what to do, unless you are the FC in a public fleet and then your authority ends when that fleet does.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 645	Posted - 2016.01.14 17:08:27 - [92] - Quote Ok. So. I could comment on that, but I am not sure unsolicited consulting is the thing anyone is looking for here. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 538	Posted - 2016.01.14 17:13:15 - [93] - Quote Ah yes, the Sani Sabik CEO who pestered people in their own corp channels on comms and had to be sent packing? Not that we can expect much better when other members of that corp also pesters people on comms, with ping chains and such nonsense even when the recipients are signaling a do not disturb with the away from comms positions. I think you're misunderstanding something though. Everyone knows you can't order someone outside of your own corps or alliances, but there is absolutely nothing that says you can't voice criticism, disgust or disapproval of things like complete lack of standards, lack of focus, lack of priorities and generally doing more harm than good. Of course, the fact that you are a better fit among the Amarr where scum like you belong is probably not surprising. In the Tribes we don't tend to cater to dishonesty and glassy smiles "diplomatically" hiding the honest truth and disapproval. We honestly tell you when you're a cancer. Well, some of us do. The ones that don't tend to fall to the wayside.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 849	Posted - 2016.01.14 17:45:21 - [94] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Ah yes, the Sani Sabik CEO who pestered people in their own corp channels on comms and had to be sent packing? Not that we can expect much better when other members of that corp also pesters people on comms, with ping chains and such nonsense even when the recipients are signaling a do not disturb with the away from comms positions. I think you're misunderstanding something though. Everyone knows you can't order someone outside of your own corps or alliances, but there is absolutely nothing that says you can't voice criticism, disgust or disapproval of things like complete lack of standards, lack of focus, lack of priorities and generally doing more harm than good. Of course, the fact that you are a better fit among the Amarr where scum like you belong is probably not surprising. In the Tribes we don't tend to cater to dishonesty and glassy smiles "diplomatically" hiding the honest truth and disapproval. We honestly tell you when you're a cancer. Well, some of us do. The ones that don't tend to fall to the wayside. There have been alot of incidents of my people being banned from communication services, not just the one you are referencing, and several of those based on that persons "associations", we have even had members ejected from fleet since they wanted to use a combat prober. If it were just "voicing criticism" it wouldn't have got to this. You are never around fleets anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't really know any of what is going on, there are pilots who have been in less than two months with more combat history than your entire career with the TLF, so I don't even know where any of this even matters to you Mizhara. We are making an attempt at working thru differences, and all you are doing is insulting me. I respect Siddhar Gangari, because I see him put forth an effort to understand and put this conflict behind us, and ease tensions within the militia, but you make it very hard to respect you, as it seems like you don't even respect what it is the militia even does. If this war matters so little to you, then why are you even in it?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 646	Posted - 2016.01.14 18:00:58 - [95] - Quote If I still gave a damn about the Militia, I'd despair right about now. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 538	Posted - 2016.01.14 18:21:44 - [96] - Quote There are differences between working through differences and trying to pretend your history doesn't exist. Of course all I do is insult you. It's all you've earned. Combat pilots infinitely better than any of us don't earn having their crimes erased just because they're good pilots. You are the cause of tension in the militia, as you pull in even more scum like the Sani Sabik and others that are avowed enemies of our people. Whether or not you respect me is rather irrelevant. Frankly, having your respect would probably be a mark against me, as I'd rather not have the qualities that earn your respect like your Sani Sabik friends and all the previous associations for that matter. As for why I'm in the TLF, I suggest reading what would now amount to near novel lengths of text I've written on the matter in this and various other threads. It should probably not be difficult to decipher at this point, nor would my lack of fleet attendance. It's been a rather major theme of the last few weeks of posting.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 538	Posted - 2016.01.14 18:23:06 - [97] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: If I still gave a damn about the Militia, I'd despair right about now. You do post a lot for someone who don't care. Might as well speak your mind rather than just registering vague and untargeted disapproval.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 649	Posted - 2016.01.14 19:08:46 - [98] - Quote I spoke my mind. I despair over the fact that no one seemed to listen. I apologize if my disapproval was vague - let me make it more clear. You all: stop trying to convince the audience you are the one not doing it wrong. Just stop. Also, I always posted a lot. I've missed IGS, and being infuriated by Rodj Blake, and smartbomb camps on Osoggur-Amamake, and pod goo in my hair. So I'll post as much as I damned please. Also, I am still Matari, and I am Sebiestor, even if all those once worthy in this thread I am probably the one most deserving of the traitor label. So I do care. Just not so much about whether the Militia looks good or not. Else Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 544	Posted - 2016.01.14 19:15:31 - [99] - Quote Listen to what, exactly? There's about a dozen different things put forth in this thread alone, and putting forth your own view of a matter isn't exactly claiming it is the unadulterated and unadorned truth. Just that it is the position taken at the time of writing. Are you expecting people to put forth their viewpoint and claim it's the wrong view to hold? I think my comms unit garbled the latter part of your post. I can't really make heads or tails of it.
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 781	Posted - 2016.01.14 19:18:19 - [100] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Also, I am still Matari, and I am Sebiestor, even if all those once worthy in this thread I am probably the one most deserving of the traitor label. I think that's probably me! Teehee She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Altaen Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 137	Posted - 2016.01.14 19:54:35 - [101] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Anslo wrote: Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF? I can confirm that Anslo has a proven track record of attracting and coordinating otherwise uninvolved alliances to fight on behalf of the Minmatar Militia. While there have been many campaigns by the Amarr to "Burn Huola," Anslo deserves a lot of the credit for victory in I believe at least two of these. He has his flaws, but from time to time his excessive enthusiasm has been directed to great effect. That said, if I am gathering the themes of the discussion, there are many present that do not think non-loyal capsuleers should be a part of these conflicts, regardless of the side they pick. Sounds highly irresponsible and pitifully idealistic to me.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 544	Posted - 2016.01.14 19:59:26 - [102] - Quote You do seem to misunderstand, Altaen. There's a difference between non-loyalists and outright enemies.
Altaen Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 137	Posted - 2016.01.14 20:34:08 - [103] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: You do seem to misunderstand, Altaen. There's a difference between non-loyalists and outright enemies. I think the issue then, as Kala said, is lack of leadership. It's hard to call anyone an enemy when they shoot exactly what you tell them to.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 544	Posted - 2016.01.14 21:01:06 - [104] - Quote I'd find it rather easy to call someone an enemy when they have a track record of fighting for the Empire, Sansha and Sani Sabik. This should not be such a controversial stance, really. What is it about capsuleerdom and suddenly having no sense of consequences for ones choices and actions? I pay for mine and face the consequences of what I've done and will most assuredly do in the future, but it seems this is somehow a notion that should be completely ignored in favor of adding a few more ships to a warzone, as if there's somehow a dearth of psychopaths in eggs out there.
Altaen Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 138	Posted - 2016.01.14 21:31:34 - [105] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I'd find it rather easy to call someone an enemy when they have a track record of fighting for the Empire, Sansha and Sani Sabik. This should not be such a controversial stance, really. What is it about capsuleerdom and suddenly having no sense of consequences for ones choices and actions? I pay for mine and face the consequences of what I've done and will most assuredly do in the future, but it seems this is somehow a notion that should be completely ignored in favor of adding a few more ships to a warzone, as if there's somehow a dearth of psychopaths in eggs out there. The value of strong leadership is in minimizing the impact of the beliefs, politics, and actions of individuals in favor of focusing their efforts to promote the beliefs, politics, and actions of the leader.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 546	Posted - 2016.01.14 21:35:21 - [106] - Quote That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. I have no doubt I have the strength to lead, but I don't have the prerequisite patience with fools nor dishonesty required to cajole the fragile egos of necessary middle-managers. Of course, it'd seem any other potential strong leader have pretty much the same situation facing them.
Maria Daphiti PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 88	Posted - 2016.01.14 21:37:31 - [107] - Quote Keep Bickering! :)
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 782	Posted - 2016.01.14 22:18:58 - [108] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. Not actually true. How quickly people forget the days of mighty Iron Oxide., ferocious Late Night, and their many stalwart allies. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 546	Posted - 2016.01.14 22:23:41 - [109] - Quote Oh I'm not forgetting them. I'm just pointing out that the leadership bit dwindled before I even joined the TLF. Their rightfully well earned accolades predate that though.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 985	Posted - 2016.01.15 01:58:20 - [110] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. Not actually true. How quickly people forget the days of mighty Iron Oxide., ferocious Late Night, and their many stalwart allies. Speaking of which, is Iron Oxide still operating these days? I recalled that they used to be everywhere in Eszur. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 797	Posted - 2016.01.15 02:05:17 - [111] - Quote The name may exist, but the soul is dead. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 872	Posted - 2016.01.15 02:13:08 - [112] - Quote Thought they were just doing the whole pirate thing now...
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 986	Posted - 2016.01.15 02:22:51 - [113] - Quote Huh. Well, that's...tragic. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Ottom Ephesianos Mirkur Draug'Tyr 45	Posted - 2016.01.15 05:27:23 - [114] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: That much is to a degree true, of course. I won't pretend there's not a distinct lack of any leadership whatsoever in the TLF, but that's been the case for a lot longer than I've flown in it. I have no doubt I have the strength to lead, but I don't have the prerequisite patience with fools nor dishonesty required to cajole the fragile egos of necessary middle-managers. Of course, it'd seem any other potential strong leader have pretty much the same situation facing them. Take your eyes from these forums and gaze out the window of your starship. May the cosmos reflect your gaze. Underappreciating is the pride of fools.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2362	Posted - 2016.01.15 10:33:03 - [115] - Quote Altaen wrote: Kalaratiri wrote: Anslo wrote: Because we did more for the TLF outside of it than inside of it. Like what? What lasting good have you had on the TLF? I can confirm that Anslo has a proven track record of attracting and coordinating otherwise uninvolved alliances to fight on behalf of the Minmatar Militia. While there have been many campaigns by the Amarr to "Burn Huola," Anslo deserves a lot of the credit for victory in I believe at least two of these. He has his flaws, but from time to time his excessive enthusiasm has been directed to great effect. That said, if I am gathering the themes of the discussion, there are many present that do not think non-loyal capsuleers should be a part of these conflicts, regardless of the side they pick. Sounds highly irresponsible and pitifully idealistic to me. Well, Huola have been burned and I brought my own torch to help with it. Pity I couldn't help with the hub itself. Derpslo ran just like all other runmatars. And I heard he ran even faster than them. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 852	Posted - 2016.01.15 11:20:57 - [116] - Quote When Huola fell, we lived in Taff as part of the Blacklist, there was no one of consequence there to defend it. Scope Works left to pursue other things. Say what you will but when it was ScopeMatar that system never fell, and if anyone wants to strut about claming victory over a mostly Undefended system then I don't even know what to say
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 33	Posted - 2016.01.17 09:35:42 - [117] - Quote Just came on to say the null refugees keep losing fights in rou and null has yielded cargo. Gloom and doom is still happening.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2375	Posted - 2016.01.17 11:22:16 - [118] - Quote Maria Daphiti wrote: Keep Bickering! :) Bick bick! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 557	Posted - 2016.01.17 13:42:59 - [119] - Quote Well, it should come as no surprise there's "gloom and doom" when Val and her friends take fleets to fight GalMil alongside her Pyre allies. I just wish it was a surprise, really.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.17 13:50:58 - [120] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Well, it should come as no surprise there's "gloom and doom" when Val and her friends take fleets to fight GalMil alongside her Pyre allies. I just wish it was a surprise, really. When they do that? Only thing I can think of was when they deployed to battle sansha in combined ops.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 557	Posted - 2016.01.17 13:59:19 - [121] - Quote I can't quote comms logs here, as it's against the rules I believe, but it shouldn't be too difficult for you to trawl combat reports for quite recent events. There should also be stored communication in certain proxy war communications venues that'd elaborate.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.17 14:53:43 - [122] - Quote Oh, it was recently? I'll take a look. Thanks.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.17 15:11:12 - [123] - Quote Oh, the combat on the 15th? Uh.... Ya that is.... Odd, to say the least.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 557	Posted - 2016.01.17 15:24:22 - [124] - Quote Nothing odd about it. To no one's great surprise, her loyalties are exactly what they appear to be. I called it a long time ago and as usual these things tend to turn out to be right. I'm just disappointed that the rest of MinMil are going to pay the price as she's alienating allies and fighting for enemies.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.17 15:37:10 - [125] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Nothing odd about it. To no one's great surprise, her loyalties are exactly what they appear to be. I called it a long time ago and as usual these things tend to turn out to be right. I'm just disappointed that the rest of MinMil are going to pay the price as she's alienating allies and fighting for enemies. Obviously I'm not trying to say this as an excuse or anything, but myself I have 6 friendly fire incidents on my record. When I was shot at I didn't exactly look at who was trying to kill my crew. That's the nature of war. The fact she put a combat wing into a situation that would facilitate it doesn't bode well but is it confirmed that was the intent? I know it does look rather bad, I'm not denying that...
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 557	Posted - 2016.01.17 15:54:26 - [126] - Quote I have comms record confirmation that it is intentional and deliberate. Not particularly secret either. It was plain speech in public venues.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.17 15:57:50 - [127] - Quote Oh.....
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 858	Posted - 2016.01.17 19:28:20 - [128] - Quote They shoot us so we shoot them, it is no surprise at all really. I do not for a second deny engaging Gal mil. after many incidents I have started treating them just like other neutrals. Other FCs in the alliance might have a different policy but that is the one I go by. And if they were allies they wouldn't come to metropolis and slide into our plexes and shoot us to begin with.
Nameira Vanis-Tor Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 335	Posted - 2016.01.17 19:42:13 - [129] - Quote Well gosh I am late to this party! For those of you who don't know/remember me I used to have some involvement in Mini Mil and I maintain an interest in their wellbeing. For context I can remember the days of Iron Ocide and weekly HAC roams, 'Ourzad', Periphery and even the old WEAZL battleship roams (even if I was just a scrub in a T1 Slasher at the time ) I'm going to try and keep this brief: 1) Iron Oxide are not dead. CTRL-Q is still alive and kicking in Gallente Militia. Corp with 5th most kills in Gal Mil over past 7 days as I type. It is always a pleasure to see old friends flying about and they don't take it personally when I shoot at them 2) Both sides of this argument have a point. Plexing brings fights as long as the system is worth something to the enemy. Having pilots willing to make that happen and keep the PVE pressure up can cause great PVP. Likewise when those serious fights happen the militia needs a bunch of pilots who can field advanced and diverse doctrines and tactics to win the fights. (No I don't mean kitchen sink frigate swarm which is common in public plexing fleets) As long as you are clear about what to expect of each other then the militia will make gains. 3) The pendulum has started swinging in Amarrs favour, all of you need to think about how you want to adjust to a swarm of Amarr farmers Plexing 23/7. You will only achieve despair and stress if you try to endlessly defend every system. Pick your fights with some strategic intent and bloody Amarr Mils nose when they poke it into Militia core interests, whatever you each decide those are... 4) You can have friends who are not in the militia. Do I see members of U'K giving Bionesis grief here? Bare it in mind. Now that that seriousness is out of the way I need some more popcorn.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 36	Posted - 2016.01.18 00:33:20 - [130] - Quote Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: 3) The pendulum has started swinging in Amarrs favour, all of you need to think about how you want to adjust to a swarm of Amarr farmers Plexing 23/7. You will only achieve despair and stress if you try to endlessly defend every system. Pick your fights with some strategic intent and bloody Amarr Mils nose when they poke it into Militia core interests, whatever you each decide those are... Now that that seriousness is out of the way I need some more popcorn. It isn't the 23/7 Plexing that has minmatar beat at the moment, its the fact the null people have been losing their sov and going to join Amarr militia. Such as Fweddit recently did, and their active members are greater than all of the militia flying in any given day. Perhaps we should do what Pyre did and just spend enough isk and gloat until we are forced to leave the warzone and go towards Gallente lands only to have our 'good' record trashed.
Kalaratiri Death By Design Did he say Jump 800	Posted - 2016.01.18 00:44:53 - [131] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: Perhaps we should do what Pyre did and just spend enough isk and gloat until we are forced to leave the warzone and go towards Gallente lands only to have our 'good' record trashed. It always has been a mystery to me as to how the Minmatar militia manages to be just so poor, despite being awarded vast amounts of loyalty points and sitting in Tier 4 for 6 straight months. As for "forced"... who exactly do you claim forced PYRE out? She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 559	Posted - 2016.01.18 01:18:42 - [132] - Quote Err, Pyre largely flew very affordable T1 doctrines. Skillfully so, I might add. For all their faults and the fact that I'd seriously consider burning a planet from space if one of them took a dump on it, their combat record is not one of them. They fought well and with good financial sense. A good display of how skill and good training will let you get a lot of work done in "basic" well fit ships. And honestly, I have no idea how people manage to be so bloody broke in the TLF. Granted, our LP is worthless as the market is over saturated by far, but it's not like it's hard to make isk in New Eden. Given that you're effectively in a Pyre-pet alliance, Kalo, your salt at them is kind of funny.
Desiderya Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1084	Posted - 2016.01.18 02:03:35 - [133] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: Perhaps we should do what Pyre did and just spend enough isk and gloat until we are forced to leave the warzone and go towards Gallente lands only to have our 'good' record trashed. We didn't spend ISK and gloat, we invested it. After all we're still reaping interest to this day. Rock on, friend! If you click your heels together three times and make a wish (Also, a snappy salute would be preferred), we may return! Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Anyanka Funk Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 624	Posted - 2016.01.18 07:07:46 - [134] - Quote Desiderya wrote: Kalo Askold wrote: Perhaps we should do what Pyre did and just spend enough isk and gloat until we are forced to leave the warzone and go towards Gallente lands only to have our 'good' record trashed. We didn't spend ISK and gloat, we invested it. After all we're still reaping interest to this day. Rock on, friend! If you click your heels together three times and make a wish (Also, a snappy salute would be preferred), we may return! Stay out! We don't need your ungodly filth.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 858	Posted - 2016.01.18 07:25:47 - [135] - Quote Haha, I don't mind your ungodly filth at all, sometimes I like to get filthy.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2382	Posted - 2016.01.18 08:13:03 - [136] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: Haha, I don't mind your ungodly filth at all, sometimes I like to get filthy. EWW. Minmatars. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 422	Posted - 2016.01.18 10:01:33 - [137] - Quote Our people are struggling to prosper, and while 2LC is trying to provide infrastructure, industry and financial security to our allies we have idiots telling us we're doing everything wrong. We are wrong for raising funds instead of massing into unnecessarily large and inefficient fleets. We are wrong for securing resources and travel routes instead of taking terrible fights. We are wrong for using precision strikes when we are grossly outnumbered. We are wrong for using scanning equipment for its exact purpose. We are wrong for entertaining membership with excursions against various threats or opportunities. We are wrong because we are not doing it their way, the way they've always done it, the way that's always had mediocre performance and ineffective pressure on the war zone. For too long, it's been the mere economic advantages of surplus military equipment that dictated how much of the war zone we controlled. They don't get it, they don't get that they don't get it and we do. Serving with the Amarr, I discovered that they're largely run by idiots too, but they're more organized idiots with more money and they have less to disagree about. Shoot the savages, yay God. You see, we are their game, but we fight for our lives, our future as a people. They don't have to be afraid of getting anything wrong. Their society is fine for them, and it will keep on being fine no matter how many systems we take or what tactical decisions their capsuleer military makes. We're not the ones living in relative comfort and luxury. We're not the ones who get to have slaves do the work for us. We have to make real decisions together and build a society refugees and warriors can thrive in. 2LC, in its very brief time, is accomplishing the framework of a real and cooperative military power that can provide security to the common people. We have become something exterior to the Republic, yet something wholly beneficial to its people. Please, let's stop fighting among ourselves. Our dear Valentina and the membership of 2LC are prepared to accomplish great things for the Republic, and this incessant negativity towards our cause by a blustering minority with incentive to see us collapse will not dissuade us. To summarize: Miz shut the hell up. You can't tell us what to do. You have no authority. You clearly don't know how any of this works. It is frankly offensive how you disregard reality to make yourself look like some kind of voice of all the loosely associated PMCs who've freely elected to operate under the Republic flag indefinitely with no commitment. Do you not realize how absurd that is? Do you comprehend how incredibly ridiculous you look when you unprofessionally moan, as someone of no importance to the politics of our own coalition, from an entirely different and barely-affiliated corporation? There's a lot of people tired of the old, stifling attitude your friends and you have developed and you need to get with the times because the times aren't going to get with you.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 559	Posted - 2016.01.18 10:46:21 - [138] - Quote Oh you poor thing. That's a whole lot of boo-hoo over the words of someone with "old, stifling attitudes". To summarize this whole thing: If your position is so pathetically weak that simple words from a few people on a piddly little forum is enough to get you this shaken? Your position is untenable and built on smoke and dreams. Grow up and handle criticism like someone of the Tribes would rather than cry pitiful tears because "bad bad Miz wasn't being nice". But no, I suppose fighting with Pyre against GalMil is so very very necessary for "our people", traitorous filth.
Anyanka Funk Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 626	Posted - 2016.01.18 11:07:00 - [139] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Oh you poor thing. That's a whole lot of boo-hoo over the words of someone with "old, stifling attitudes". To summarize this whole thing: If your position is so pathetically weak that simple words from a few people on a piddly little forum is enough to get you this shaken? Your position is untenable and built on smoke and dreams. Grow up and handle criticism like someone of the Tribes would rather than cry pitiful tears because "bad bad Miz wasn't being nice". But no, I suppose fighting with Pyre against GalMil is so very very necessary for "our people", traitorous filth. Aphox is not filth! Why don't you actually do something? Anything! Undock your ship. Hell, stay docked, you could just be in station doing something. But you don't even do that. You do nothing, at all. You're broken. You're the reason Amarrians take people like you as slaves. You can do nothing for yourself or anyone else. You are only good for being a slave and nothing more.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2664	Posted - 2016.01.18 12:08:47 - [140] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: You see, we are their game, but we fight for our lives, our future as a people. No, you really don't. Quote: Our dear Valentina and the membership of 2LC are prepared to accomplish great things for the Republic After she spent a year doing "great things" for the Empire, and several years doing "great things" for Sansha's Nation.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2664	Posted - 2016.01.18 12:12:16 - [141] - Quote Anyanka Funk wrote: words Sani Sabik make great voices for the Minmatar people. Does Valentina know you blood and eat them on the side?
Maria Daphiti PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 90	Posted - 2016.01.18 13:30:05 - [142] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: words Sani Sabik make great voices for the Minmatar people. Does Valentina know you blood and eat them on the side? Dunno! Does 'Of Questionable Repute' also know Funk AWOXes Minmatar militia members in Hek, as well as recently graduated Pator Tech, Republic University, and Republic Military School students and young Sebiestor and Brutor Tribe members?
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.18 14:38:00 - [143] - Quote Maria Daphiti wrote: Samira Kernher wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: words Sani Sabik make great voices for the Minmatar people. Does Valentina know you blood and eat them on the side? Dunno! Does 'Of Questionable Repute' also know Funk AWOXes Minmatar militia members in Hek, as well as ganks recently graduated Pator Tech, Republic University, and Republic Military School students and young Sebiestor and Brutor Tribe members? Guess they are living up to their name! When has the Gallante, caldari or Amarr millitias not had people who do the same thing? Not saying I support it but let's be honest it's not some unheard of thing in any militia.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 560	Posted - 2016.01.18 14:42:33 - [144] - Quote Nor is it tolerated, ignored or considered an act of loyalty in any proxy war faction. It does quite eloquently demonstrate that the alliance is an enemy of both the TLF and the Tribes.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.18 14:51:44 - [145] - Quote U'K has had people do the same as well. They aren't traitors are they? Then again, they consist of a couple hundred pilots vs the what, 60? I don't think they can police their members as well as a smaller group. What im saying is the actions of one or two doesn't make the alliance traitorous but coupled with some other things its not looking good.....
Nameira Vanis-Tor Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 335	Posted - 2016.01.18 15:03:59 - [146] - Quote So much anger. Be zen my fellow capsuleers. Every shot fired on the forums only benefits Amarr Militia. Enter into a treaty for the militias mutual benefit. If you can't be zen you could just declare a civil war and resolve the dispute once and for all with auto cannons? Time honoured method for resolving Mini Mil disputes. (Is that in character enough?!?!)
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2666	Posted - 2016.01.18 15:13:23 - [147] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Maria Daphiti wrote: Samira Kernher wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: words Sani Sabik make great voices for the Minmatar people. Does Valentina know you blood and eat them on the side? Dunno! Does 'Of Questionable Repute' also know Funk AWOXes Minmatar militia members in Hek, as well as ganks recently graduated Pator Tech, Republic University, and Republic Military School students and young Sebiestor and Brutor Tribe members? Guess they are living up to their name! When has the Gallante, caldari or Amarr millitias not had people who do the same thing? Not saying I support it but let's be honest it's not some unheard of thing in any militia. We're not talking about having it in the militia. We're talking about having it in one's own alliance. Militia membership can't be regulated, but corporate and alliance membership can.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.18 15:18:53 - [148] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Maria Daphiti wrote: Samira Kernher wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: words Sani Sabik make great voices for the Minmatar people. Does Valentina know you blood and eat them on the side? Dunno! Does 'Of Questionable Repute' also know Funk AWOXes Minmatar militia members in Hek, as well as ganks recently graduated Pator Tech, Republic University, and Republic Military School students and young Sebiestor and Brutor Tribe members? Guess they are living up to their name! When has the Gallante, caldari or Amarr millitias not had people who do the same thing? Not saying I support it but let's be honest it's not some unheard of thing in any militia. We're not talking about having it in the militia. We're talking about having it in one's own alliance. Militia membership can't be regulated, but corporate and alliance membership can. True.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2667	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:20:08 - [149] - Quote We don't have issues because we have standards that we expect our members to uphold. And you have it backwards. The larger groups are the ones where it's more difficult to police, because there are many more faces and different corporations with different leaders doing different things. Smaller ones are where it's easier, because the leaders can micromanage things much easier. Also, anyone who 'couldn't be in the militias because of their standings' isn't someone who should be in the militia to begin with. If anything, the standings restrictions are too lax as it is.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 562	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:27:47 - [150] - Quote You're trying a little too hard to make it seem like it's an impossible task for an alliance to handle the actions of their members. An alliance executor can very easily simply tell a CEO of corp X that member Y is engaging in unacceptable behavior. Correct the behavior or kick them, or your corp is out on its arse. For a corp CEO it's even easier to enforce standards with less middle-management to go through. In short, if the problem persists, it's because it exists with the blessing and approval of the CEOs and Alliance Executors, unspoken, tacit or not. Since the alliance leaders in question are actively betraying both the Tribes and TLF through cooperation with our enemies, attacks upon our allies and more, it should not be particularly surprising that the entire alliance are considered a hostile entity. This certainly applies to all entities, U'K and PIE as well. We have to take the same criticism when earned, along with measures taken or indeed not taken to limit or prohibit problematic behavior.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:40:27 - [151] - Quote Right, so a month old alliance has an easier time picking and choosing corporations under them because they are small as opposed to a well established alliance which is bigger and attracts groups more easily to join? It's hard to promote a sense of morals if you don't have a group to promote it to. Such micromanagement falls on the corporations I would think with the alliance's leadership enforcing it. I fully agree with you on the fact that people can just corporation hop to continue being in the militia is disgusting.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 563	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:46:16 - [152] - Quote Size and age has nothing to do with it. It all boils down to the same thing. Executor > CEOs > Directors > Members, with differing degrees of middle-management depending on organizational size and structure. Standards are met or disregarded by anyone through the entire chain of command, and the only enforcement of standards come from Executors, CEOs and Directors. If members are behaving in a certain way, it is up to these people to either enforce standards or dismiss the standards. If there are problems from members and the problems persist, it's because enforcement does not happen. It doesn't matter what the reasoning behind that decision is, the responsibility and decisions lie entirely with that chain of command, ultimately ending at the Executor's feet. While Executors and CEOs enjoy the most power and influence in an alliance, they are also always ultimately responsible for the acts of anyone under their banner.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5854	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:32:18 - [153] - Quote I don't know what it's like in the big leagues, but in my limited experience corporations form alliances because they want to act in concert with like-minded groups whilst still retaining their essential corporate culture. Other than strictly agreed protocols (ROEs etc), most CEOs and their corporate members would react very negatively to constantly having that corporate culture overridden by the Alliance Executor / Board. I would expect that where this happens often the relationship between the corporation and the alliance would swiftly break down. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5855	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:38:31 - [154] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Nothing odd about it. To no one's great surprise, her loyalties are exactly what they appear to be. I called it a long time ago and as usual these things tend to turn out to be right. I'm just disappointed that the rest of MinMil are going to pay the price as she's alienating allies and fighting for enemies. I find it easy to forgive anyone bloodying the Gallente - but then I already loved Val to bits. I seem to remember that the TLF doesn't have a problem with her slagging Gallente Militia ships (heck, the Republic Fleet engages Gallente Navy ships, so why shouldn't the Militia?) "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 860	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:39:08 - [155] - Quote Eh, if Funk shoots TLF, that is for Kalo to deal with, and for me to deal with if it starts to threaten standings for Sanguis, therefore the alliance. As far as shooting capsuleers in highsec, I just don't care. It also doesn't matter to me that Hratan does it.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 426	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:39:37 - [156] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Oh you poor thing. That's a whole lot of boo-hoo over the words of someone with "old, stifling attitudes". To summarize this whole thing: If your position is so pathetically weak that simple words from a few people on a piddly little forum is enough to get you this shaken? Your position is untenable and built on smoke and dreams. Grow up and handle criticism like someone of the Tribes would rather than cry pitiful tears because "bad bad Miz wasn't being nice". But no, I suppose fighting with Pyre against GalMil is so very very necessary for "our people", traitorous filth. You are a narrow-minded blowhard who doesn't understand how the world works and yes, to be perfectly god damned honest your constant slander has caused me to waste my time I could be putting towards shooting Amarr to come here and try to help clarify our mission because yeah, you've kind of made me have to worry about our public image. You are an insufferable menace to the reputation of Republic and not only are you not content making your friends look bad, but you have to go out of your way to molest your allies too. My time with the Amarr was a tactical decision in order to understand them and try to change them. I'm not proud of the Minmatar I've destroyed, but this is war and my eventual goal is to end it by sufficiently crushing the Amarr's capacity to hire PMCs. However, you, Mizhara Del'thul, have shown nothing but disrespect and a lack of appreciation for the nuances of corporate relationships, modern warfare and the harsh reality of war. You are a bloviating idiot and you don't understand the contents or the impact of your words and your continued interference will require me to start charging your corporation to attempt to recoup from the damages you cause with your drivel. Anyanka Funk wrote: Why don't you actually do something? Anything! Undock your ship. Hell, stay docked, you could just be in station doing something. But you don't even do that. You do nothing, at all. You're broken. You're the reason Amarrians take people like you as slaves. You can do nothing for yourself or anyone else. You are only good for being a slave and nothing more. Mizhara Del'thul certainly undocks, and even shoots the enemy and participates in fleet operations. My concern is that their performance as a pilot doesn't make up for lost productivity from unnecessary obstruction. Samira Kernher, Maria Daphiti wrote: manipulative fear, uncertainty and doubt Thank you for helping me establish my argument for talking the same **** Mizhara does. I don't know if Mizhara is a spy but they'll be a wartarget if they continue to threaten our security.
Anabella Rella Gradient 2114	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:44:31 - [157] - Quote Malasar Ravaan wrote: Petty bands of unwashed, tattooed tribal savages flying rusted heaps of junk has always and will always resemble a pirate gang, with the exception that most pirate gangs are better organized. Since we petty bands of junk flying unwashed savages kicked your sorry, invisible man worshiping asses out of our space and were about to start glassing your core worlds (before your spooky undead empress showed up with her alien--not Amarrian built-- weapon) what does that say about you and yours? Idiot. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Synthetic Cultist Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 513	Posted - 2016.01.18 18:52:24 - [158] - Quote What does 2LC refer to ? Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol. It is Written.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 565	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:02:27 - [159] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: I don't know what it's like in the big leagues, but in my limited experience corporations form alliances because they want to act in concert with like-minded groups whilst still retaining their essential corporate culture. Other than strictly agreed protocols (ROEs etc), most CEOs and their corporate members would react very negatively to constantly having that corporate culture overridden by the Alliance Executor / Board. I would expect that where this happens often the relationship between the corporation and the alliance would swiftly break down. Most certainly true, but if these corporate members are allowed to perform actions without reprimand from Directors, CEOs or Executors, then that action remains tacitly or overtly approved by the alliance's leadership. If I were to take actions running contrary to U'K RoE, conducts or regulations and there was no repercussion from my CEO (who happens to be Executor as well) then Ushra'Khan would be considered responsible, not just me. The same applies to other alliances. Pieter Tuulinen wrote: I find it easy to forgive anyone bloodying the Gallente - but then I already loved Val to bits. I seem to remember that the TLF doesn't have a problem with her slagging Gallente Militia ships (heck, the Republic Fleet engages Gallente Navy ships, so why shouldn't the Militia?) Well, given your stated loyalties, I would be surprised if you were opposed to this, but I'm certain you can understand the concern we have about a member of the TLF not only flying with stated enemies, but attacking our military allies. While I personally have no love for the Federation's proxy war forces or the Federation itself (I believe you are aware of my preference for the State over the Federation) the lines have been rather unequivocally drawn. Shoot 24thIC/StPro, good. Shoot our own or Feds, bad. Until our governments finally gets tired of all this nonsense and cuts these useless ties, it is hardly a Matari act to join the TLF and then go shooting military allies. Val wrote: It also doesn't matter to me that Hratan does it. Hratan shoots our enemies. Your alliance apparently shoots TLF members. Aphoxema G wrote: A lot of claims and excuses Of course I show no respect. You haven't earned any. You have thrown your loyalties around to whoever you felt like at a drop of a hat and now demand to be believed when you claim "it was just fake! Totally just a ruse! I swear!". If you want respect, own up to your choices and actions, then face the consequences of them. I would embrace any honest man or woman who admits her screw-ups and seeks atonement, but those who churlishly refute any and all responsibility for their choices and actions are not worth much but scorn. I am well aware of the impact and consequences of my words, and I am also aware of the impact and consequences should I fall into dishonesty and start pretending these matters are not important for convenience's sake. I'll take short term inconvenience over long term damnation and failure to uphold the principles and standards of the Tribes. Aphoxema G wrote: Thank you for helping me establish my argument for talking the same **** Mizhara does. I don't know if Mizhara is a spy but they'll be a wartarget if they continue to threaten our security. Well, do put your autocannons where your mouth is. It is no less than what I'd expect from enemies of our people hiding under the TLF's banner. Your members already kill other TLF members, fly with our wartargets and hunt our allies. This is the logical next step, isn't it? There's not much that would prove what I've said any better than that.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 428	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:01:58 - [160] - Quote Synthetic Cultist wrote: What does 2LC refer to ? 2 Lazy Coalition, the raddest new kids in town. We are so cool and identify well with the popular demographic. Studies have shown that 10 out of 10 everyone loves us.
Jev North Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 423	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:10:21 - [161] - Quote I'm mildly impressed by Of Questionable Repute's application of pragmatic principles. Despite my personal distaste for Funk, I have to admit that booting her probably isn't going to change her behaviour for the better. Sure, keeping her around looks bad, but if you're Of Questionable Repute to begin with, maybe you're not as concerned with your image as most. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Well, given your stated loyalties, I would be surprised if you were opposed to this, but I'm certain you can understand the concern we have about a member of the TLF not only flying with stated enemies, but attacking our military allies. While I personally have no love for the Federation's proxy war forces or the Federation itself (I believe you are aware of my preference for the State over the Federation) the lines have been rather unequivocally drawn. Shoot 24thIC/StPro, good. Shoot our own or Feds, bad. Until our governments finally gets tired of all this nonsense and cuts these useless ties, it is hardly a Matari act to join the TLF and then go shooting military allies. You're pretty good at toeing the corporate line while bad-mouthing your allies. Why, it'd make me think there's a hint of envy in all this. Aphoxema G wrote: Studies have shown that 10 out of 10 everyone loves us. I'll grant you 6 of 0 medals.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 864	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:10:46 - [162] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Well, do put your autocannons where your mouth is. It is no less than what I'd expect from enemies of our people hiding under the TLF's banner. Your members already kill other TLF members, fly with our wartargets and hunt our allies. This is the logical next step, isn't it? There's not much that would prove what I've said any better than that. Yes, but the problem is, as much as we despise you and your mouth, I am fond of lots of people in UNITY, and we both fight side by side against the Amarr, you might not notice that of course since I never see you on the battlefield. There is no reason to turn this into a conflict that would effect our or UNITY's capability to fight the Amarr. So until concord lets us put out a contract and you, and you alone we aren't doing anything on that front.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 566	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:30:28 - [163] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: Yes, but the problem is, as much as we despise you and your mouth, I am fond of lots of people in UNITY, and we both fight side by side against the Amarr, you might not notice that of course since I never see you on the battlefield. There is no reason to turn this into a conflict that would effect our or UNITY's capability to fight the Amarr. So until concord lets us put out a contract and you, and you alone we aren't doing anything on that front. So she's just throwing around threats that won't be acted upon? What a pity. If you want witness to what I do on the battlefield, I think I've seen your Khaprice on field during combat operations? As I don't fly with enemies of our people - that is you, Sani Sabik, etc - I've had to fly solo in the defense of Roushzar. I am rather surprised and disappointed by the sheer amount of AmarrMil that will let a single Typhoon sit untouched for multiple large plexes in a row. I've barely gotten the paint scratched on it the last few days.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 660	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:31:51 - [164] - Quote You know, you guys, and I mean pretty much everyone in this thread, probably including myself: This is the worst ever recruitment ad for the Militias. I'll be in the GW, shooting Angels. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 566	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:35:58 - [165] - Quote I dearly hope I've never given the impression I was trying to recruit for TLF. I'd rather the psychopaths in eggs went pretty much anywhere else. System control etc is vastly less important than setting an example, and the great majority of eggers aren't particularly good at that. More meat into the bloodsport grinder serves no one but the bloodthirsty people here just for the killmarks.
Anyanka Funk Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 627	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:42:16 - [166] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I dearly hope I've never given the impression I was trying to recruit for TLF. I'd rather the psychopaths in eggs went pretty much anywhere else. System control etc is vastly less important than setting an example, and the great majority of eggers aren't particularly good at that. More meat into the bloodsport grinder serves no one but the bloodthirsty people here just for the killmarks. Says the meat.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:43:09 - [167] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I've had to fly solo in the defense of Roushzar. I am rather surprised and disappointed by the sheer amount of AmarrMil that will let a single Typhoon sit untouched for multiple large plexes in a row. I've barely gotten the paint scratched on it the last few days. Fear of cynos....
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 566	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:46:15 - [168] - Quote Can't cyno in a plex, dear.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:47:44 - [169] - Quote Durr..... My bad. I'm starting to get forgetful..... Don't mind me....
Maria Daphiti PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 93	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:25:00 - [170] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I am rather surprised and disappointed by the sheer amount of AmarrMil that will let a single Typhoon sit untouched for multiple large plexes in a row. I've barely gotten the paint scratched on it the last few days. Thanks for bringing this to our attention! Now that Roushar has fallen, could you let us know your new location for circling large buttons? Hope to see you soon!
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 566	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:32:51 - [171] - Quote Well, while it would appear I do have Prophetic powers, having called pretty much everything that has transpired over the last year or so, I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to where the 24th will be focusing next. I suspect we might meet wherever the fighting will be thickest in the weeks or months to come. That said, it seems the few times I do get a fight in that thing, the locusts on both sides swarm the site.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 429	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:31:04 - [172] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: That said, it seems the few times I do get a fight in that thing, the locusts on both sides swarm the site. Yes, because we shoot you all the time. Do you seriously not listen to yourself? So dramatic, so negative, so inflammatory. And you're the hero, you're the good one. You're not the petulant malcontent who refuses to take any help that isn't specifically catered to your infantile black-and-white view of the world. So perfect, so flawless, pure of intent. Savior of the Minmatar. No, you're a worm, you're dishonest and your constant harassment won't be tolerated indefinitely. You can keep taking credit for other peoples' accomplishments and cry wolf every time you think something sinister is happening but eventually people will wise up to your diversion and division. You might appear loyal to the Minmatar but you're clearly a traitor to reason.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 567	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:39:55 - [173] - Quote Are you losing your mind or something? You guys haven't even been on field with me, other than Khaprice. Well, and a pestering gnat that was buzzing around our impromptu move earlier today. Now, if you care to read what I wrote, maybe two or three times more, maybe you'll note that it was never implied that both sides shot at me. I chose my words with care, implying that any fight I get in that thing pretty quickly turns into a charlie foxtrot rather than any stand-up fight. You are in dire need of having your panties unbunched, girl. I take the mickey out of you and the rest of your traitorous friends more than enough as it is, without you having to see it where there is none.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 429	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:54:52 - [174] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: You are in dire need of having your panties unbunched, girl. And here is your hero, folks, curly tail and all.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 567	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:01:43 - [175] - Quote Now now, save the vitriol and tears. If you spend it all in one place, you'll run out.
Claudia Osyn Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan 1598	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:18:05 - [176] - Quote Checks her stocks in popcorn then settles in to watch the rest of the show A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 429	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:20:53 - [177] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Now now, save the vitriol and tears. If you spend it all in one place, you'll run out. Laugh all you want but what you are doing is genuinely upsetting. You are hurting me, you are hurting our coalition and you are hurting the Militia. As your peers flock to us, the "us" you're so desperate to define will keep becoming "them" and you'll suddenly find yourself without any bridges left to orbitally bombard with your stupidity.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 429	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:30:15 - [178] - Quote sigh Okay, maybe we're both a little excited here. Mizhara, I don't want to fight you. We don't want to be your enemy. We are trying to do good things here, but your skepticism is completely understandable. Please give us the opportunity to prove our sincerity.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 567	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:41:16 - [179] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: Laugh all you want but what you are doing is genuinely upsetting. You are hurting me, you are hurting our coalition and you are hurting the Militia. As your peers flock to us, the "us" you're so desperate to define will keep becoming "them" and you'll suddenly find yourself without any bridges left to orbitally bombard with your stupidity. Upsetting, is it? I'm sorry, but that is supposed to dissuade me? You and yours made your choices and now you expect these choices to not have consequences. You expect all of New Eden to ignore years of history and actions made in many names and for many causes, and even to ignore the fact that your members are attacking TLF members (combat registries can be looked at for evidence of this), your alliance is attacking our allies (again, combat registries don't lie) and you expect me to care about your feelings? You want to play the victim because I call you on your own actions? Oh yes, I'm such a horrible monster. Wielding words at an alliance that wields autocannons, missiles and more at TLF members and GalMil both. I am truly horrendous, holding you accountable for what you have done and what you keep doing to this day. I hurt you as I write on the IGS, not falling for your sob story. I am truly a villain, hmm? You poor little victim, under such a savage and brutal assault. I have no words for how much you disgust me, you pitiful little runt. We have all made poor choices in our capsuleer careers. We have all done the wrong thing for the right reasons or the right thing for the wrong reasons. We've murdered and slaughtered our way across the stars, raining blood down upon the worlds beneath us. I have no will will towards those who have stepped wrong and done harm as I have. I truly loathe, however, you sickening and vile scum who pretend and claim it never happened. That you have done no wrong and deserve no judgment for it. I placed myself at my clan's mercy and it was not particularly merciful. I will carry my marks of shame for all of New Eden to see, right on my very face, until I have earned the right to claim I have repaid my debts and undone the harm I did to my clan and people through my actions and failure. Can such a selfish and narcissistic little mind as yours even grasp that concept? Can you even come close to understanding why you represent some of the most loathsome concepts of New Eden to me? You claim victim-hood and cry your measly tears in public because the villainous Mizhara Del'thul speaks words at you, refusing responsibility for anything you have ever done or are doing... ... and you never will, I suspect. Give me an honest villain any day. Someone who will stand tall and claim their own actions, victories and failures both, as their own. Someone who will take responsibility for their failures as well as their achievements. I may hate their choices but I will respect their honesty and perhaps even forgive and embrace them if they work to fix their mistakes. I don't think you're capable of grasping such a thing though, dishonorable little cur. Quote: Like sigh Okay, maybe we're both a little excited here. Mizhara, I don't want to fight you. We don't want to be your enemy. We are trying to do good things here, but your skepticism is completely understandable. Please give us the opportunity to prove our sincerity. Should you prove in action that you take responsibility for your history and actions, I certainly would. So far though, your own alliance leaders and members have spoken quite eloquently to further the point that "they don't care."
Claudia Osyn Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan 1598	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:44:49 - [180] - Quote Well, f**k. There goes that olive branch. Guess my stocks in popcorn don't get sold just yet.... A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 877	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:06:01 - [181] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I placed myself at my clan's mercy and it was not particularly merciful. I will carry my marks of shame for all of New Eden to see, right on my very face, until I have earned the right to claim I have repaid my debts and undone the harm I did to my clan and people through my actions and failure. ... ... ... Should you prove in action that you take responsibility for your history and actions, I certainly would. So far though, your own alliance leaders and members have spoken quite eloquently to further the point that "they don't care." Rather than having an Amarrian style ****ing match lets just end this here. Quite obviously the issues are well and known. If they wish to right their past wrongs lets let them prove their merit by action, just as you have with your clan. Maybe their leadership doesn't care but why not let those who wish to do well do so instead of stonewalling them into oblivion.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 36	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:07:24 - [182] - Quote Booting Funk? Nope Helping UK fight in Roush during early hours? Yep Caring about how this thread makes us look as a corp? Not really. Stopping null roams that have turned into little more than killing cattle for meat? Nope I think I've addressed the points against me.
Aphoxema G Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 429	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:39:46 - [183] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: ... You and yours made your choices and now you expect these choices to not have consequences. You expect all of New Eden to ignore years of history and actions made in many names and for many causes, and even to ignore the fact that your members are attacking TLF members ... you expect me to care about your feelings? We have encountered some misunderstandings in our operations, and there is certainly differences in who we define to be applicable targets. A few have been unintended. Some others... we try to offer warnings of premptive strikes to ensure the security of our fleets, and as we become more familiar with which pilots are merely inexperienced and those which are pirates or spies it will happen less. We are facing some prejudice, after all, and we don't know who is willing to attack us. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: ... I am truly a villain, hmm? ... We have all made poor choices in our capsuleer careers. We have all done the wrong thing for the right reasons or the right thing for the wrong reasons. We've murdered and slaughtered our way across the stars, raining blood down upon the worlds beneath us. I have no will will towards those who have stepped wrong and done harm as I have. I've used harsh words, and I apologize. I am honestly protective of Valentina, I hold her in some reverence for convincing me to return to the Minmatar. There are times the Amarr had convinced me the Minmatar were sure to be defeated, that it was better to serve them willingly while I still had the opportunity. Pyre Falcon was a different experience. We worked for the Amarr, but were not Amarr. They did not encourage me to partake in the faith, they just wanted me to be an exemplary pilot regardless of my race or idealogy. I was born Minmatar of body, but I wasn't raised Minmatar. I didn't even meet Minmatar society until well after I graduated. I've always been an outsider, vesting myself in Minmatar culture while seeing everything with cosmopolitan eyes. I've made many mistakes, and I've been a terrible, selfish and ignorant person for a very long time now. I am trying to grow, now. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I placed myself at my clan's mercy and it was not particularly merciful. I will carry my marks of shame for all of New Eden to see, right on my very face, until I have earned the right to claim I have repaid my debts and undone the harm I did to my clan and people through my actions and failure. Can you even come close to understanding why you represent some of the most loathsome concepts of New Eden to me? I may hate their choices but I will respect their honesty and perhaps even forgive and embrace them if they work to fix their mistakes. I don't think you're capable of grasping such a thing though ... I can't grasp it. I don't even begin to understand the way you see the world, and it's unfair of me to demand that you start agreeing with me about anything when I'm obviously the intruder. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Should you prove in action that you take responsibility for your history and actions, I certainly would. So far though, your own alliance leaders and members have spoken quite eloquently to further the point that "they don't care." Please also understand that even before this initiative began you have been a detractor to several of us and you have threatened our appearence by setting a narrative that does not accurately depict MCF1B, Calmatar syncretists or the membership of 2LC. Ideally, we can rectify all of this, but it'll require a little clemency for our occasional disorder and the cultural differences we face between our organizations.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 567	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:10:42 - [184] - Quote Hmm. Well, those are words I did not expect from you. You'll have to forgive that I remain skeptical until I see something more than words, but it is... well, let's leave it at unexpected for now. I do not trust anyone easily, least of which those who have taken up arms against my people in the past. I am afraid a very simple fact remains. You have forces attacking TLF forces, not in self defense or out of caution, but active piracy towards TLF forces. Unarmed non-combat vessels in a Matari tradehub do not pose a danger to any one of you. Other times, members of your alliance are seen cooperating with pirate/neutral forces to take down TLF combat vessels. All of these claims are fully independently verifiable in un-falsifiable registries. There is also the fact that you attack our allies during a time when we have more than enough enemies to go around. At worst, this is flat out treason, at best it's a misallocation of resources to a point where it might as well be. The former I can attribute pretty entirely towards the blooder psychopaths you rub shoulders with, which all on its own means no trust can be earned. The latter ensures the alliance leadership can't be trusted. I'll grant you that I am very much biased against almost every one of you from the very beginning, but I'll contend I very much have reason for it, given that I've faced your guns more than once, aimed towards my people. So while this annoying sentimental little idiot part of me wishes your words held worth... they are simply weighed against a mountain of history and evidence that simply can not be ignored. There is always the possibility I am wrong. Unfortunately, New Eden too often proves the cynic right. Either way, it does not matter. The RoE ensures I pose no threat to you so I couldn't still my mind and perform the battlechants in the Serial Peacemaker or Battlechanter whether I trusted you or not. The greatest threat you face from me are no more than words on a page. I won't discount the damage a pen can do, but it's hardly grievously wounding enough that you won't have ample time and ability to prove me wrong. It'd be a refreshing change of pace.
Claudia Osyn Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan 1598	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:32:56 - [185] - Quote Sells her popcorn stock, before the prices drop A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 661	Posted - 2016.01.19 08:18:32 - [186] - Quote Aphoxema! You need to stop before you actually make the Militia sound like a viable option. Also, welcome home. I've watched plenty of adult clanless try to fit in with us "trads" () and it does not seem to be an exactly easy process. It is not always made easier by the trads themselves being clueless about how different an experience a clan is to someone who has been raised without (guilty as charged, here). Good luck. Else () A fancy new word (well, at least for me) they use on Bleak Lands stations for someone born and raised in an established clan. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 38	Posted - 2016.01.19 22:41:15 - [187] - Quote Militia is always a viable option for new people to train when the armies actually need more than the navies can provide.
Havohej Akheteru Integrated Astrometrics Hedonistic Imperative 142	Posted - 2016.01.21 17:53:07 - [188] - Quote What's this about Blooders contracted to the TLF and awoxing MinMil pilots? Am I reading that correctly? Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames. OOC Forums @ Backstage
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 305	Posted - 2016.01.21 19:11:55 - [189] - Quote Havohej wrote: What's this about Blooders contracted to the TLF and awoxing MinMil pilots? Am I reading that correctly? One word: Funk.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 883	Posted - 2016.01.21 20:17:56 - [190] - Quote Havohej wrote: What's this about Blooders contracted to the TLF and awoxing MinMil pilots? Am I reading that correctly? Appears that way, ya...
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 577	Posted - 2016.01.21 23:32:17 - [191] - Quote By volume alone, it does look like indiscriminate slaughter of Hek residents in unarmed vessels is the primary purpose of the alliance. Of course, it doesn't take many psychopaths in eggs to achieve that sort of thing, but I would have thought aiming them at enemies rather than our own would have been desirable. It's by now an old and settled subject, though. CEOs and Executors have stated their views on it. No fucks given.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 39	Posted - 2016.01.23 18:44:13 - [192] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: No fucks given. Except for yours apparently, by volume alone.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 581	Posted - 2016.01.23 18:58:39 - [193] - Quote Oh, there's quite a few of us who find your indiscriminate slaughter of non-combatant vessels in Tribe space, and awoxing of TLF members to be quite distasteful. I was referring to your alliance's CEOs and Executor's opinions, which has been quite clearly stated in these threads to essentially amount to "no fucks given". I know it's not particularly convenient when someone points out your treason in public, but that's just how it is. Of course, you guys haven't been attacking non-combat vessels in Tribe corps since... well, yesterday, so I'm sure it's just old news that somehow isn't relevant or something of that sort. It's such a pity that a potentially useful alliance that could actually prove themselves to not be traitorous scum to the Tribes so willingly infect themselves with your kind of infestation. I could almost have believed the claims of Khushakor Clan if that wasn't the case.

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