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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 197	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:19:52 - [1] - Quote Credit-cards online... Mulcanis' Law in full effect mode. -1 still don't support this change.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 203	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:58:14 - [2] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Alexis Nightwish wrote: Bit late to the party, and I'm sure this will be ignored just as the 300+ page threadnaught clearly was, but I brought it up to a friend who I've tried to get into EVE a few times: Me: Got a few minutes to read something? Me: I'd like your opinion on it. Friend: sure Me: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/ Friend: Looks cool Friend: That's about all I would have an account for Friend: selling skill points Me: It costs AUR which is microtransaction monies to drain SP from a character. Friend: lame Me: You can get AUR by converting PLEX, and you can get PLEX with in game ISK. Me: So you can buy AUR with RL money, or with in game money. Friend: So they're adding more pay to win to the game Friend: those guys with the multiple accounts will just buy more accounts Friend: and pay for skillpoints Me: If you were new to EVE Online and saw this option what would your reaction be? Friend: me personally? Me: Yeah Me: You play a lot of games Friend: I'd prob just leave cause I don't play pay to win games Well there we go. I'll never get him to join. But from me to you CCP: /´¯/) ,/¯ / / / /´¯/' '/´¯¯`·¸ /'/ / / /¨¯\ ('( ´ ´ ¯~/' ') \ ' / '' \ _ ·´ \ ( \ \ Yes that's another thing I've been trying to explain to people but alas. This whole "think of the newbies" is (as it always has been) a lie. Newbies will look at this, see a whiff of P2W and go "so I have to pay extra to catch up" and won't even bother playing. There's only four reasons people are in favour of this idea. a) they want to get rid of some skills because their OCD demands it (so it's for selfish reasons) b) they have some old high SP chars they don't have a use for any more and they'll bleed that one for personal use (so for selfish reasons) c) they see a new market they can dive into, preferably one where they create their own supply and demand, quite possibly with RMT in mind (so for selfish reasons). This is what large "newbro" entities will be doing d) someone rich going "lol, I'll make an OP alt. This will be fun" So CCP, and parts of the CSM it seems, listened to their :logic: about how it would be good for the game & newbies and they gobbled it up, they fell for it because they're not intelligent enough to see through it. And personally I'm not interested in playing a game who's DEVS are too stupid to poop to a point where they require constant "wtf are you doing CCP" by each and every CSM, year after year. THIS time CCP did something truly ******** and I want no part of it. Goodbye EVE. Damn, he finally won Eve. o7
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 204	Posted - 2016.01.20 15:06:39 - [3] - Quote Wendrika Hydreiga wrote: Resubscribed recently and I'm super excited about this feature! Finally I can fix my skills and stop playing Skill Queue Online! In hindsight, it is funny how a lot of people say they are done with EVE because of Skill Trading but I've yet to spot anyone in Doomheim on this thread. Here's a thought! Hard the Flip Up! You silly ninnies whine about everything. I remember the moaning about removing clone grades and we got through that just fine. There's always someone willing to stand by their convictions. I saw "PTFU" coined earlier in this thread.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 206	Posted - 2016.01.28 00:21:52 - [4] - Quote Yaasmine wrote: so its not just a money move. its also a move to improve the game. It's just a cash grab for CCP. The only good thing for Eve is the SP sink. Unless you are truly wealthy (IRL or IG)... I'm not going to quit yet, but won't resub at the end of this year.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 207	Posted - 2016.01.28 00:34:56 - [5] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: It's just a cash grab for CCP. The only good thing for Eve is the SP sink. Unless you are truly wealthy (IRL or IG)... I'm not going to quit yet, but won't resub at the end of this year. Being wealthy doesn't actually keep the SP from sinking. Actually being willing to start more accounts or consume more certs for SP sale does try to counteract it. Though really, who's going to be willing to do to much of that in an uncertain prospect missing a key piece of information? The isk cost is literally irrelevant to the wealthiest gamers. They will buy and control the market, as SP = power. SP is a force multiplier and will be useful for augmenting the overall might and abilities of the wealthy. SP will be sunk in the scaled rewards for using the skill packets on characters with mid to high SP.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 207	Posted - 2016.01.28 00:53:19 - [6] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: The isk cost is literally irrelevant to the wealthiest gamers. They will buy and control the market, as SP = power. SP is a force multiplier and will be useful for augmenting the overall might and abilities of the wealthy. SP will be sunk in the scaled rewards for using the skill packets on characters with mid to high SP. So instead of SP sinking "Unless you are truly wealthy (IRL or IG)" it's sinking especially because of wealthy players. Also there isn't such a thing as cost irrelevance with SP due to the number of SP you can sink into a character and the likely cost of that SP (before counting the unknown aur base cost). There is also supply constraint which no amount of isk or cash can work around if it becomes an issue. You misunderstood my first comment. I did not word it well, but I did not mean to imply that wealth would affect the SP sink. Just that the wealthy will find this change is good for them.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 213	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:17:54 - [7] - Quote Oreb Wing wrote: Mark my words, if extractors go for sub 500AUR, I shall dub the coming era as, The War of Aeons. Instead of capsuleer wars, you will have little spirits have hover over and possess their specialized pilot and war machine. Perfect Interceptor pilot today, tomorrow my perfect HIC for the cap fight, next week my near perfect Legion. You will have not only Ship Replacement Programs but also Skill Replacement Programs to keep your T3's top notch the same day as the loss. Injectors are valuable now as a war commodity. Surprise. It is a force multiplier, and will be used as such. Now that your competitor(s) are injecting, you will feel compelled to crank up your own fleets to match. Where 'nearly-perfect' skills were okay you will see 'perfect-skills' required.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 213	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:19:40 - [8] - Quote Maybe they will sell 'fatigue-reduction' injectors too...
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 213	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:37:37 - [9] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: Mark my words, if extractors go for sub 500AUR, I shall dub the coming era as, The War of Aeons. Instead of capsuleer wars, you will have little spirits have hover over and possess their specialized pilot and war machine. Perfect Interceptor pilot today, tomorrow my perfect HIC for the cap fight, next week my near perfect Legion. You will have not only Ship Replacement Programs but also Skill Replacement Programs to keep your T3's top notch the same day as the loss. Injectors are valuable now as a war commodity. Surprise. It is a force multiplier, and will be used as such. Now that your competitor(s) are injecting, you will feel compelled to crank up your own fleets to match. Where 'nearly-perfect' skills were okay you will see 'perfect-skills' required. I suppose than means most won't be able to play then? Because it's pretty much impossible for that to happen. For that matter why hasn't it happened already. Does no one think anyone else trains skills to level 5 as is? As just one example A new ship is released (ie T3 Destroyer, T2 command, etc). Fleets can now train up as soon as the skillbooks hit the market and gain a significant advantage over their opponents, who are passively training. I can think of many examples where the wealth to afford SP injectors will be a huge advantage. Stop being so narrow minded...sigh...
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 217	Posted - 2016.01.31 22:46:19 - [10] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: The logic that cash for skills does not equal 'pay to win' must also mean that the famed 'gold ammo' would also not be 'pay to win' as there is no 'win' in Eve Online. Again, I would refer all to my example of two new players starting on day one. Player one cannot afford to buy skills whereas player two can and does so funded by real life cash. Are some folk seriously trying to argue that player two will not have a clear, broadly speaking, in-game advantage over player one funded by cash? I'm supposing this gold ammo is also produced through normal game means on every account and at best only has a cost to transfer between characters and can only be sold on the in game market but never directly by CCP (save the ability to produce as normal but in parallel)? If so then no it's not P2W as everyone has access to it just by being able to play, CCP isn't even selling it in a way not attached to time, and there are available in game means to afford the portion made tradable without even thinking about reaching for a CC. And even in the case you are using a CC someone has to be making the isk and willing to give it to you for the system to work. Basically the reason it's ok goes well beyond just the definition of winning, though that is a part of it. By your logic, CCP could sell a 'gold ammo blueprint' for AUR, and that wouldn't be PTW because players actually make it. Not buying the argument
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 217	Posted - 2016.01.31 22:49:07 - [11] - Quote What is lacking, imo, is an ISK sink component to the extractors/injectors. That would actually be good for the overall economy, and I could actually support this new mechanic as being good for the game.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 217	Posted - 2016.01.31 23:34:58 - [12] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: By your logic, CCP could sell a 'gold ammo blueprint' for AUR, and that wouldn't be PTW because players actually make it. Not buying the argument No, that would be P2W because it doesn't abide by the same rules. In that case you're still creating something exclusively sold by CCP rather than something which exclusively exists as a function of a paid account that no one has to exhert effort or pay anything additional to obtain for themselves. The logic I presented doesn't allow for that: the BPO/BPC isn't "produced (or obtained) through normal game means on every account and at best only has a cost to transfer between characters." SP on the other hand does abide by that since every paying account can produce it. How hard is this concept? If you have to pay CCP directly for the item or ability it crosses a line, especially in the case that that transaction is the exclusive source, but neither of those are effectively true here since everyone who can play the game can also train. No it is precisely the same. The extractors are sold exclusively by CCP. Without them this whole thing doesn't function (just like the ammo blueprint) edit. Put the extractors in the LP stores.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 217	Posted - 2016.01.31 23:39:39 - [13] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: No it is precisely the same. The extractors are sold exclusively by CCP. Without them this whole thing doesn't function (just like the ammo blueprint) No, it's not the same, anyone can gain SP both before and after the change through training, but how many could self produce gold ammo without buying the BPC from CCP? None. Difference clearly demonstrated. But I can amass the materials required for the ammo print. Same thing.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 217	Posted - 2016.02.01 00:14:36 - [14] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Skills you can use are the same as ammo that doesn't exist and as such can't be used? What? Edit: Also do you realize you've deviated from the initial claim of P2W being that "through the use of cash > PLEX > isk > sikll injectors one can buy an advantage and thus it's P2W"? You've now gone to "the ability to purchase the tool to decrease you're characters SP and create an item from it is P2W" if I'm understanding? Skills are like the materials required for manufacturing an item in a blueprint The skill extractor is akin to the blueprint itself the skill injector is the item made CCP exclusively sells the extractor for AUR. My analogy is that they could sell blueprints for gold ammo, and it would be the same. And no, my opinion hasn't changed. But I accept that it is coming no matter what I think. It would just be more acceptable to make it less P2W Mulcanis law will allow this new mechanic to be used to benefit the wealthy the most.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 222	Posted - 2016.02.06 23:34:43 - [15] - Quote Still well enough affordable for T3 pilots to keep an injector or two with their med clones. Still would have liked an isk sink somewhere in this plan. Oh well, back to business...
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 223	Posted - 2016.02.08 03:53:37 - [16] - Quote OldWolf69 wrote: Else some will learn really quick that they can get a job at McDonalds in case **** hits the fan. Iceland doesn't have McDonalds anymore...

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