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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1557
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Posted - 2016.01.18 18:33:21 -
[1] - Quote
Wow, that is just a whole mess of ignorant noob thoughts based on incomplete and poorly understood information.
Quote:They told me the Prospect and the Venture are good for gas mining especially the Prospect.
-I said no they aren't. After 20+ days of training to get into a Prospect you basically get a suped up venture that can fit a covert ops cloak. I said for it to be a true upgrade to the venture. TO BE AT LEAST a true upgrade to the Venture it would have to be able to fit a Covert Ops Cloak AND a Probe Launcher. If not the cost of the ship alone makes it a scary thing to take into a wormhole to lose every now and then. All the Low Slots are completely negates because there are no Gas Mining upgrades to put in them.
EFT-warrior posting detected.
-A mobile depot obviates the need to fit 2 harvesters, a cloak, and a probe launcher at the same time.
-The prospect can hold twice as much gas as a venture.
-It is faster and more agile than a venture. Coupled with its sig bonus, this can make the prospect surprisingly survivable.
-Your thoughts on the low slots are upside down and backwards, as yield is relative. You don't have any upgrades to put there and neither does anyone else. This means - tada - you don't HAVE to put yield upgrades on it. You can use those slots for other useful things, most likely pertaining to survivability.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1565
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:32:29 -
[2] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
New players for instance. Aren't going to see fun. They're going to see yield, numbers. When they went out and gas mined for 6 hours. While their friend hung back and Mined in their barge. Only to see that his friend earned more ISK then him in 1.0 then a ship designed to be fast, fit a scanner, and has gas harvester bonuses, mining in a wormhole for 15000m3 of gas worth a ton of ISK. Really starts to annoy this possible new player who just trained 25 days to get into their Prospect.
I think it is kind of rude of you to assume that these hypothetical new players will not be substantially smarter and more capable than you.
Quote:
P.S. TO EVERYONE: Say something nice for christ sakes. 18 replies. And i'm dead wrong. It really goes to show that the older players of this game might have stuck around because logging on for them everyday was a MYSTERY. Get a clue... damn ...
Of course the MINING FRIGATE is going to have trade offs. But were talking MAJOR Trade offs. So much so I made a thread about how the Prospect is useless. Like read the POST. If you're an idiot PLEASE ... PLEASE ... don't reply to me.
You made a thread! Good job! I guess that makes you a subject matter expert and not just some guy who has internet access and an active Eve-O subscription!
We read the post. The post was ******* stupid, and we explained, in vivid detail, what was stupid about it.
Quote:Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER ... GAS IS WORTH A LOT HERP DERP DERP. idiots. DERP THERES SPECIAL WORMHOLES FOR MINING FRIGATES DERP INSTEAD OF MAKING THE SHIP BETTER THEY ADDED AN ENTIRE THING IN THIS GAME ONTLY THE PROSPECT COULD DO DEERP. thats a bad sign you idiots.
What numbers would those be? And having spent large swaths of time living in WH space, I'm going to hazard a guess that I (and most everyone else in this thread telling you that you're wrong) have vastly more experience scanning them down than some whiny daytripper who occasionally pulls on his Superman underoos and lets go of Concord's apron strings for an hour or two. 
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1565
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:50:55 -
[3] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
CCP Ban this guy please. VIVID DETAIL. What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong.
right now i've got bigger ore hold
less sig radius. um
covert ops cloak.
i thkn thats the vivid detail i got so far. You're living in your head good bye.
Numbers on what? Why do you think "THE YIELD" is so important? Yield is relative. Generally speaking, giving a ship any substantial yield advantage without extremely significant downsides just makes that ship "the best" and renders every comparable ship obsolete.
Mining barges/exhumers used to be structured this way, and it was pretty much, "If you're mining, you're doing it in a hulk, or you're stupid and wrong."
So, they tiericided barges, and now there are 6 very usable ones. You can fly a hulk for maximum yield, but you're going to pay for it with paper thin tank and mediocre cargohold. You can fly a Skiff and have a battleship grade-tank, and it will cost you a bit of yield.
Additionally, the abilities of the procurer do, in fact, add up to more yield, in practice. More cargo means less downtime spent unloading cargo. More survivability means more time spent huffing without having to flee.
As an aside, for a guy crying about THE NUMBERS so much, you suggested earlier that a catalyst is a better fleet huffer - did you actually run the numbers on that? 
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1565
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:00:28 -
[4] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
Um yeah the venture gets two gas harvesters and with a 100% bonus to yield that equivalent to 4 gas harvesters. ANYTHING THAT CAN FIT 5 is going to be better then the venture at least for fleet ops.
Here comes the clue train, last stop is you:
The venture gets a 100% bonus to yield AND a 25% reduction in gas cloud harvester cycle time, for a grand total of 5.33 effective harvesters, resulting in a no-booster, no-implant maximum yield of 2.67 m3 per second.
The 5-harvester Catalyst you've never actually tried to fit gets 2.5 m3 per second and, with ONLY the gas cloud harvesters fit, is at 157.3% of its maximum CPU. Even with 3 co-processors and 2 overclocks, it is more than 3% over.
I'd be surprised if you can actually make it fit at a pricepoint lower than a Prospect, nevermind a venture.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1566
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:29:10 -
[5] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
I mean you're right.
That's the first sane thing you've said.
Quote:But to get that duration you're training up Mining Frigate. And the catalyst is more efficient by default.
Training up mining frigate? Gosh, that would be awful.
Quote:
In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post.
you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward.
So you glossed right over the part where putting 5 GCH IIs on a catalyst puts it 57.3% over its CPU limit, I take it.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1566
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:33:21 -
[6] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
dude believe me you can do i use have one and use one i called it a gas hog.
Cool, show us the fit. You can do it with GCH Is, but now you're down to a sad little 1.67 m3 per second.
T2s? Doesn't look like it's happening without exotic co-processors (all of which cost more than a prospect hull by itself) or a CPU implant.
And, all the fitting modules required means the Venture still tanks more/does literally everything else better, too.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1566
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:46:41 -
[7] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
please re read ive eidtted and co processors arent exotic.
The kind you would need to make that fit work are. T2s won't cut it.
3 T2 co-pros and 2 overclock rigs and you're still more than 3% over. You would need a 4% implant, then, and that's close to 100m.
Or, you could use 3 "Dyad" co-pros and a 1% implant, that's closer to 50. Of course, this still means you will have less EHP/everything else than a venture.... but don't let that stop you from spending a lot on a horrible fit.
A smarter person would use a Cormorant. It's worse than a venture in every way, but at least it's easier to fit.
If you have a cheaper one, by all means, share it. Bear in mind that a Prospect hull is only about 17 million, though.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1566
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:49:32 -
[8] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:not to mention i know youre on a fitting site right now checking my stuff. 57.3% over the base cpu limit, you said? why dont you just link the fit while youre there. like... dont be an *sshole
Wait, I've got something for this.
Leonerd Dice wrote:
thank god for the players who dont use a calculator and just assume this ship is great for gas mining cause ... they really keep the game fresh.
Leonerd Dice wrote:
What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong.
Leonerd Dice wrote:
Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER
I was lead to believe that you had already crunched the numbers, friend. I am disheartened to learn you have been remiss in this matter.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1569
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:20:57 -
[9] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
and i read the last thing about how a normal cloak is just such junk compared to the covert ops one. um ...
who cares .... you cant mine cloaked the only time you REALLY need to cloaked is when your attention is on scanning sites and youre just floating around in space which a normal cloak does pretty nicely. warping into a gas site cloaked lol. so what??
Anyone with the foresight to scout the system for potential threats and would like to do so without being seen?
At least for any system more than one D-scan range across. Do you even play this game?
They're also handy if you land in a bubble. No need to drop cloak after you slowboat out, just... warp away.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1569
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:23:57 -
[10] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
nonon ive literally got a peice of paper here. i dont need a website to do it for me.
Apparently you do, because left to your own devices, you've put 350 CPU worth of modules onto a ship with 222.5 CPU (at max skills).
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1570
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:34:44 -
[11] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Leonerd Dice wrote:
nonon ive literally got a peice of paper here. i dont need a website to do it for me.
Apparently you do, because left to your own devices, you've put 350 CPU worth of modules onto a ship with 222.5 CPU (at max skills). FOR F*CK SAKES MAN. I USE TO HAVE ONE.
Cool, post the fit.
Quote:you're probably forgetting skill bonuses.
No, I'm pretty certain that's not the case.
Quote:there are other ships out there like the NAGA that can fit 5 harvesters with no cpu issues.
Back in your first post you were complaining about the cost of a Prospect making it scary to bring into wormholes, now you're suggesting a gas-harvester fit... Naga? What would you name it? "Free lulzy killmail for any stealth bomber (or damn near anything else, for that matter) who happens by" is kind of a mouthful and I am pretty sure there are character limits. :\
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1570
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 03:44:20 -
[12] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:
I'm done with you. Please breed as much as you can before you die. I love conversations with no goal, no direction and where there's no end because I'm always wrong. I can't even imagine how your brain works. I legit think, you think you're actually talking about the same thing I'm talking about and bringing up valid points.
I'm done talking to you.
I just think it is very weird that someone who, just a few posts back, was making such a ruckus about people not doing the math, is suddenly very averse to showing a fit with workable numbers.
Surely this should be a trivial task for an Eve numbers-ninja such as yourself.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1574
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Posted - 2016.01.19 04:28:01 -
[13] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:Wow this is the Eve Community ladies and gentleman. These are real people.
P.S. I think I used a special catalyst edition back in the day. and ended up using a Naga just because it was easier to fit 5 Tech II Gas Harvesters.
There is no "special catalyst edition" with different fitting stats. I mean, I guess you could use an Eris? Still turns into a total shitfit, though.
Quote:
So it's funny. I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful.
Can I be Shahfluffers? He's dreamy.
Quote:
ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG.
Try to understand this future person who searches this thread on google.
Hopefully by then the Prospects been buffed.
I understand they're going to see a bunch of different people provide lucid, mathematically supported explanations for why almost everything you have said is objectively incorrect, and apoplectic, caps-lock riddled fits from you in response.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1577
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Posted - 2016.01.19 05:55:42 -
[14] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Pix Severus wrote:Spoilers: Everyone in this thread (except you) is just me trolling with multiple accounts. the multi-alt trolling potential of this thread is staggering, such ripe and golden opportunities should be celebrated especially when the OP is exploding in ALL CAPS by page two. Well played, Sir. Alas, I am gainfully employed at current and can't devote the necessary *effort* to join you in the sport.
You two are definitely alts. I mean, just look at the avatars.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1584
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Posted - 2016.01.19 17:27:05 -
[15] - Quote
Angel T Hunter wrote:tl;dr?
Mad 'cause bad.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1605
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Posted - 2016.01.20 03:37:23 -
[16] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:How is this a 5 page thread? If any of you haven't had the pleasure of viewing the link in my sig, now is the time.  HAHAHAHAHA!!! Pet CONCORD. OMG, my sides.
Now just turn it on its side and make it ******* vertical.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1635
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Posted - 2016.01.20 14:23:59 -
[17] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Tippia wrote:
Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned).
Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned.
No, Tippia's right. So are you about the sig, but sensor strength also plays a role. The old unscannable Tengus were basically built by loading up on ECCM.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1636
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 14:34:31 -
[18] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Tippia wrote:
Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned).
Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. No, Tippia's right. So are you about the sig, but sensor strength also plays a role. The old unscannable Tengus were basically built by loading up on ECCM. I don't understand, explain to me exactly how sensor strength plays a role in being scannable, or link me to something that does please. I've been doing some stuff wrong if this is the case.
The scan probe signature size of a ship is something like its Sig/Sensor/100. I've never been a big OGB user so I'm hardly an expert, I just know that jacking up the sensor strength used to be able to make a T3 literally unscannable. They capped that and the best you can do now is getting them hard enough to require max skills and a virtue set, I believe.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1663
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Posted - 2016.01.21 03:33:27 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Leonerd Dice wrote:Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Then there's no problem, now is there?
I don't understand, I thought high sec players were supposed to enjoy 100% of the benefits of low/null/WH players with none of the nasty downsides? 
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1664
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 05:46:46 -
[20] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:Tippia wrote:Leonerd Dice wrote:Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Then there's no problem, now is there? Yeah there is a problem. Not all of us live in a wormhole.
This is definitely a problem with the ship, and not a problem with the filthy casual who wants to daytrip for WH gas.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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