The only purpose/value these ships have is fun.

Mobile depot anyone ? I use it to make the full use of a wormholer prospect, and yes it's better to just go in Providence space and use a barge, but not everyone can go there, plus a prospect can really fly away and hide, where a venture get combat probed.
And seriously the price of ice in low and null sec is really very profitable for a Endurance, taking into account the price of hull+fitt one hour and maybe a half more of glare crust is enough to pay the entire ship.

So what is the Mining Frigate Tree? It's a Tree that out performed by the Barge. It was designed to go and explore to look for gas, ore and ice. Why? Because the barge is the better ship for mining ore with. It's not great at travelling around in. So what did CCP do? They reduced the Mining Yield in Mining Frigates so badly, that it's STILL and ALWAYS, RELIABLY more profitable to mine VELDSPAR in a 1.0, in a barge. Then it is to go explore space and find rare exotic ores, gases and ice with.

It needs to be able to do a purpose or it's purpose cleanly and efficiently. No Mobile Depot required. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. That what I was referring to when I said it makes you want to pull your hair out.

They told me the Prospect and the Venture are good for gas mining especially the Prospect.
-I said no they aren't. After 20+ days of training to get into a Prospect you basically get a suped up venture that can fit a covert ops cloak. I said for it to be a true upgrade to the venture. TO BE AT LEAST a true upgrade to the Venture it would have to be able to fit a Covert Ops Cloak AND a Probe Launcher. If not the cost of the ship alone makes it a scary thing to take into a wormhole to lose every now and then. All the Low Slots are completely negates because there are no Gas Mining upgrades to put in them.

Fun!?

in a game!?

The only purpose/value these ships have is fun.

DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING!

They told me the Prospect and the Venture are good for gas mining especially the Prospect.
-I said no they aren't.

The Ship Tree Serves No Functional Purpose.

It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it.

I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business!

The Venture is vital to gas mining (at least with ease) due to it's 2 warp core stabs that are built in. In addition to this, it serves as a point for people to become interested in mining. Without the venture, mining would become a more specialized and isolated profession. The Prospect and Endurance, though I have not tried them, both seem very good at doing their jobs. They may be needlessly specialized for jobs that are already doable with barges, but it serves as an entrance point, like I stated before.

New players for instance. Aren't going to see fun. They're going to see yield, numbers. When they went out and gas mined for 6 hours. While their friend hung back and Mined in their barge. Only to see that his friend earned more ISK then him in 1.0 then a ship designed to be fast, fit a scanner, and has gas harvester bonuses, mining in a wormhole for 15000m3 of gas worth a ton of ISK. Really starts to annoy this possible new player who just trained 25 days to get into their Prospect.

P.S. TO EVERYONE: Say something nice for christ sakes. 18 replies. And i'm dead wrong. It really goes to show that the older players of this game might have stuck around because logging on for them everyday was a MYSTERY. Get a clue... damn ...

Of course the MINING FRIGATE is going to have trade offs. But were talking MAJOR Trade offs. So much so I made a thread about how the Prospect is useless. Like read the POST. If you're an idiot PLEASE ... PLEASE ... don't reply to me.

Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER ... GAS IS WORTH A LOT HERP DERP DERP. idiots. DERP THERES SPECIAL WORMHOLES FOR MINING FRIGATES DERP INSTEAD OF MAKING THE SHIP BETTER THEY ADDED AN ENTIRE THING IN THIS GAME ONTLY THE PROSPECT COULD DO DEERP. thats a bad sign you idiots.

I think it is kind of rude of you to assume that these hypothetical new players will not be substantially smarter and more capable than you.



You made a thread! Good job! I guess that makes you a subject matter expert and not just some guy who has internet access and an active Eve-O subscription!

We read the post. The post was ******* stupid, and we explained, in vivid detail, what was stupid about it.




What numbers would those be? And having spent large swaths of time living in WH space, I'm going to hazard a guess that I (and most everyone else in this thread telling you that you're wrong) have vastly more experience scanning them down than some whiny daytripper who occasionally pulls on his Superman underoos and lets go of Concord's apron strings for an hour or two.

CCP Ban this guy please. VIVID DETAIL. What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong.

right now i've got bigger ore hold
less sig radius. um
covert ops cloak.

i thkn thats the vivid detail i got so far. You're living in your head good bye.

Numbers on what? Why do you think "THE YIELD" is so important? Yield is relative. Generally speaking, giving a ship any substantial yield advantage without extremely significant downsides just makes that ship "the best" and renders every comparable ship obsolete.

Mining barges/exhumers used to be structured this way, and it was pretty much, "If you're mining, you're doing it in a hulk, or you're stupid and wrong."

So, they tiericided barges, and now there are 6 very usable ones. You can fly a hulk for maximum yield, but you're going to pay for it with paper thin tank and mediocre cargohold. You can fly a Skiff and have a battleship grade-tank, and it will cost you a bit of yield.

Additionally, the abilities of the procurer do, in fact, add up to more yield, in practice. More cargo means less downtime spent unloading cargo. More survivability means more time spent huffing without having to flee.


As an aside, for a guy crying about THE NUMBERS so much, you suggested earlier that a catalyst is a better fleet huffer - did you actually run the numbers on that?

Um yeah the venture gets two gas harvesters and with a 100% bonus to yield that equivalent to 4 gas harvesters. ANYTHING THAT CAN FIT 5 is going to be better then the venture at least for fleet ops.

Here comes the clue train, last stop is you:

The venture gets a 100% bonus to yield AND a 25% reduction in gas cloud harvester cycle time, for a grand total of 5.33 effective harvesters, resulting in a no-booster, no-implant maximum yield of 2.67 m3 per second.

The 5-harvester Catalyst you've never actually tried to fit gets 2.5 m3 per second and, with ONLY the gas cloud harvesters fit, is at 157.3% of its maximum CPU. Even with 3 co-processors and 2 overclocks, it is more than 3% over.

I'd be surprised if you can actually make it fit at a pricepoint lower than a Prospect, nevermind a venture.

By the way, since shoehorning it together leaves no room for any kind of tank, your catalyst is left with a paltry 3900 EHP.

The venture can be fit quite easily with a cold tank of over 7K, aligns faster, has that built in +2 scram strength, lower signature, more cargo...

It is objectively better in every way.

I mean you're right.

But to get that duration you're training up Mining Frigate. And the catalyst is more efficient by default.

In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post.

you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward.

That's the first sane thing you've said.



Training up mining frigate? With mining


In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post.

you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward.

dude believe me you can do i use have one and use one i called it a gas hog.