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Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:12:12 - [1] - Quote Hello, Today I had a discussion with my corp mates about the Mining Frigate Tree. The discussion revolved around it's purpose to the game. And when you do the math, they don't serve a purpose. The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. Which is a cheap price when you see no one flying these around by choice. Which I've come to realize is actually a priceless value you can't put onto a ship. Which is why I choose to fly them. However... My corp mates kept trying to tell me that these ships serve a purpose. So first to define purpose. A purpose for a ship would make it able to do something better then any other ship of it's tech type, Training Time Class, Ship Class etc. Another arguably equal ship. They told me the Prospect and the Venture are good for gas mining especially the Prospect. -I said no they aren't. After 20+ days of training to get into a Prospect you basically get a suped up venture that can fit a covert ops cloak. I said for it to be a true upgrade to the venture. TO BE AT LEAST a true upgrade to the Venture it would have to be able to fit a Covert Ops Cloak AND a Probe Launcher. If not the cost of the ship alone makes it a scary thing to take into a wormhole to lose every now and then. All the Low Slots are completely negates because there are no Gas Mining upgrades to put in them. I can see the Prospect being a good upgrade from the Venture for Ore mining. But a Barge is pretty good at that too. So what's the Prospect's purpose? -It doesn't have one. It's one high slot away from being the true upgrade it should be. In fact I think CCP withheld a high slot for some reason from it. It really is one of the worst "upgrades" in the game. I can tell by it's stats and it's other fitting's that it was put into the game to be a ship that you take out. Scan down wormholes with, enter said wormholes, scan down gas sites with. All while cloaked. And huff up gas and bring it to where it needs to go. It was a Expedition Frigate, it was to leave high sec and come back with a prize. But they with held that one high slot from it that would allow it to do this in a profitable manor. Now it just makes you wanna rip your hair out. My corp mates then said, well I use a venture to gas mine with. And having 60 million ISK worth of gas in my ore hold tells me this is a great ship for gas mining in. -I said with the time is takes to scan down a wormhole, scan down a gas site (if there are any), huff that gas, then come back to civilization, all with out a cloak. Is both dangerous and the ISK/hr isn't the amount in your cargo hold, is severely reduced from what you might expect. You're probably making closer to 10-20 mil/hr then 60 mil/hr with all things considered. But you can expect this from the Venture it's a Rookie Ship it's a Tech 1. So it's okay. I mean it's something to do. They said the Venture wasn't for solo gas harvesting. -I said then what is it for? A catalyst with 7-8 Gas Harvesters on it is a better fleet gas harvester then the Venture. Almost expect idly too. If it's not good for solo gas mining it doesn't have a purpose. At this point it really comes down to this. The Venture is fine for Gas mining sure. And for Ore mining it's a nice ship to have. But it gets obsoleted by a barge in 5 or so days. And were not talking by a little bit, a barge obviously out mines the Venture by 125% - 200% (2 - 4x). -Well a barge can be considered kind of like a tech ii ship it takes awhile to get into and it takes special skills and equipment, it's also highly specialized to do it's job. Well then I'd expect the Prospect to AT LEAST compete with it. Instead the Barge blows the prospect out of the water too. They said a Prospect is better for going into dangerous space with to mine ore with. I said with a yield difference like that, it absolutely isn't. Especially when the Price Tag is the same. In fact you won't see hardly anyone ever flying a Prospect. It has no bonuses which give it a profitable purpose. There are other ships that outrank it. As said previous the CATALYST out performs it when mining gas in a Fleet. I don't know much about the Expedition. But I was excited until I saw it only had one turret slot. I haven't done the math but let me guess, it's out performed by a barge by more then double maybe triple... So what is the Mining Frigate Tree? It's a Tree that out performed by the Barge. It was designed to go and explore to look for gas, ore and ice. Why? Because the barge is the better ship for mining ore with. It's not great at travelling around in. So what did CCP do? They reduced the Mining Yield in Mining Frigates so badly, that it's STILL and ALWAYS, RELIABLY more profitable to mine VELDSPAR in a 1.0, in a barge. Then it is to go explore space and find rare exotic ores, gases and ice with. (Talked about earlier) Just the fact that the Prospect is Missing One High Slot to be able to fit 2 Gas Harvesters, 1 Probe Launcher and a Covert Ops Cloaking Device. Is Metaphorical to the entirety of what the Entire Mining Frigate Tree is missing. There are better ships for the job. And what's the Prospect good at doing. Going blindly out into space while cloaked. Why blindly? Because it can't find anything with out a scanner. Unless you take off 1 harvester... I'm done here. They've already got such a reduced yield. I'm going to mine VELDSPAR in a starting system to make top dollar. I'll catch you all later. Maybe I'll take my Prospect out later just for a bit of fun.
Kiddoomer Deep Space Exploitation Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades 87	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:30:12 - [2] - Quote Mobile depot anyone ? I use it to make the full use of a wormholer prospect, and yes it's better to just go in Providence space and use a barge, but not everyone can go there, plus a prospect can really fly away and hide, where a venture get combat probed. And seriously the price of ice in low and null sec is really very profitable for a Endurance, taking into account the price of hull+fitt one hour and maybe a half more of glare crust is enough to pay the entire ship. A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 999	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:43:42 - [3] - Quote I believe that shattered wormholes have very lucrative ice anoms and are only accessible with frigates.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 13596	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:47:29 - [4] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. Fun!? in a game!? Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:50:27 - [5] - Quote Kiddoomer wrote: Mobile depot anyone ? I use it to make the full use of a wormholer prospect, and yes it's better to just go in Providence space and use a barge, but not everyone can go there, plus a prospect can really fly away and hide, where a venture get combat probed. And seriously the price of ice in low and null sec is really very profitable for a Endurance, taking into account the price of hull+fitt one hour and maybe a half more of glare crust is enough to pay the entire ship. You're right. I just went and did the math for this ship. And although it wouldn't be as good as a barge mining the same thing. The fact that the barge can't get to null sec very easily makes the Endurance have a purpose. This is the upgrade the Prospect needs. It needs to be able to do a purpose or it's purpose cleanly and efficiently. No Mobile Depot required. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. That what I was referring to when I said it makes you want to pull your hair out. And I want to be clear here. I'm saying this because the Endurance can actually fit it's mining modules, a probe launcher and a cloaking device. As an Exploration Ship, an Expedition Frigate. This is needed. Which the Prospect doesn't have.
Pix Severus Mew Age Outpaws 2224	Posted - 2016.01.18 16:51:53 - [6] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: So what is the Mining Frigate Tree? It's a Tree that out performed by the Barge. It was designed to go and explore to look for gas, ore and ice. Why? Because the barge is the better ship for mining ore with. It's not great at travelling around in. So what did CCP do? They reduced the Mining Yield in Mining Frigates so badly, that it's STILL and ALWAYS, RELIABLY more profitable to mine VELDSPAR in a 1.0, in a barge. Then it is to go explore space and find rare exotic ores, gases and ice with. Got bored of shooting rocks in a 1.0 system and quit the game? ISK/hr = 0 Having great fun as a mining ninja, flying into dangerous territory and stealing gas? ISK/hr = Who cares? My lord.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 9450	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:59:50 - [7] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: It needs to be able to do a purpose or it's purpose cleanly and efficiently. No Mobile Depot required. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. That what I was referring to when I said it makes you want to pull your hair out. Oh dear... you have to make tradeoffs. Just like you make with every other ship in the game. Mining barges? You have to choose between mining efficiency or the ability to tank realistic amounts of damage. You can't have both. Exploration frigates? You have to choose between having speed, tank, and/or utility. Generally you can't have more than 2 of those aspects (not without a mobile depot at least). Even the Astero (a Pirate Frigate) has to make tradeoffs. It can't fit any guns if it is equipped with a probe launcher and Covert-Ops cloak. This decreases its efficiency at running some sites as well as lower its capacity to defend itself. Hmmmm... what else... - Industrialists need to choose between tank, cargospace, and speed/agility. They generally can't have more than 2 of those aspects at any one time. - All combat ships need to choose between; ------ speed/agility ------ tank ------ gank ------ utility/Ewar They have to choose between 2.5 of those things because they only have so much CPU/PG and fitting slots. - Big ships need to choose between being effective against ships around their own size... or be effective against small fast ships. The fits required to do either are quite different... so being caught against the wrong kind of target with the wrong kind of fit will leave you quite useless. How did you Veterans start?
Casual Genius Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 18:03:19 - [8] - Quote Shattered wormholes , ninja mining in 0.0 and whs. Dont consider only the standard HS ore belt role. Dont forget the battle/cyno ventures :p
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1557	Posted - 2016.01.18 18:33:21 - [9] - Quote Wow, that is just a whole mess of ignorant noob thoughts based on incomplete and poorly understood information. Quote: They told me the Prospect and the Venture are good for gas mining especially the Prospect. -I said no they aren't. After 20+ days of training to get into a Prospect you basically get a suped up venture that can fit a covert ops cloak. I said for it to be a true upgrade to the venture. TO BE AT LEAST a true upgrade to the Venture it would have to be able to fit a Covert Ops Cloak AND a Probe Launcher. If not the cost of the ship alone makes it a scary thing to take into a wormhole to lose every now and then. All the Low Slots are completely negates because there are no Gas Mining upgrades to put in them. EFT-warrior posting detected. -A mobile depot obviates the need to fit 2 harvesters, a cloak, and a probe launcher at the same time. -The prospect can hold twice as much gas as a venture. -It is faster and more agile than a venture. Coupled with its sig bonus, this can make the prospect surprisingly survivable. -Your thoughts on the low slots are upside down and backwards, as yield is relative. You don't have any upgrades to put there and neither does anyone else. This means - tada - you don't HAVE to put yield upgrades on it. You can use those slots for other useful things, most likely pertaining to survivability. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Toriessian SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 406	Posted - 2016.01.18 18:52:25 - [10] - Quote You are correct. The prospect has no use what so ever. The BLOPs bridgeable gas mining frigate could never be used to reach lucrative gas clouds that spawn in specific constellations in deep null sec and getting back out of with the gas It certainly couldn't ever be used to light a covert cyno on anyone either. Be more creative is my advice. Every day I'm wafflin!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17359	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:02:30 - [11] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. Fun!? in a game!? DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING! "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 3007	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:08:14 - [12] - Quote Frigate only wormholes. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 10312	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:18:44 - [13] - Quote Mining itself, by and large, serves no purpose other than to spawn amusing threads in See and Pee and Features and Ideas. Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Poddington Bare Angur Therapy 127	Posted - 2016.01.18 22:46:47 - [14] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it. I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business!
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 13607	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:15:35 - [15] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. Fun!? in a game!? DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING! carefull now Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 446	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:30:54 - [16] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: They told me the Prospect and the Venture are good for gas mining especially the Prospect. -I said no they aren't. You'd be wrong. You'd be oh so very, very wrong. I'll just leave THIS here then, shall I? While I'd like to see the Expedition Frigate skill bonuses changed a little for the Prospect (change the Yield bonus to a harvester cycle duration reduction, same as the Mining Frigate skill bonus, keep the Sig Radius bonus); the simple truth is that the Prospect is a considerable upgrade over a Venture for Gas harvesting as it sits. The extra cargohold space means half as many trips back to home base to drop off Gas for a start. The power of that CovOps cloak should not be underestimated for safety and survivability while operating in hostile space. Sure, a fourth high-slot would be nice, but it's by no means necessary. As for the relative cost of the Prospect against a Venture, consider that a Prospect full of C50 (a mid-range gas that can be found in any wormhole C1-6) clocks in at some ISK46m worth, enough to buy and fit two Prospect hulls. Chase the high end gas (C320 or some of the 0.0 Cytoserocin gasses) and we're talking well north of ISK100m/Prospect load. I do a fair bit of gas mining running three accounts. Currently, all three are sat in T2 Gas Harvester fit Ventures with the Expedition Frigate skill already injected. Just need to wait until I remap Per/Will to knock over Mining Frigate V. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1465	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:36:01 - [17] - Quote I can't decide between my two witty replies so I guess I will just post them both. "Well I guess you have to talk about something while mining." Leonerd Dice wrote: The Ship Tree Serves No Functional Purpose. FTFY Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Jace Varus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:42:02 - [18] - Quote The Venture is vital to gas mining (at least with ease) due to it's 2 warp core stabs that are built in. In addition to this, it serves as a point for people to become interested in mining. Without the venture, mining would become a more specialized and isolated profession. The Prospect and Endurance, though I have not tried them, both seem very good at doing their jobs. They may be needlessly specialized for jobs that are already doable with barges, but it serves as an entrance point, like I stated before.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1849	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:16:53 - [19] - Quote True Story ... Year or two back I noticed no buy orders for ventures at one of the schools so put up a spec buy order for 300 at 40k or so each. Ended up with 300 Ventures for something like 12 million ISK :D Had no use for them so donated them to the angel project.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:16:16 - [20] - Quote Poddington Bare wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it. I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business! New players for instance. Aren't going to see fun. They're going to see yield, numbers. When they went out and gas mined for 6 hours. While their friend hung back and Mined in their barge. Only to see that his friend earned more ISK then him in 1.0 then a ship designed to be fast, fit a scanner, and has gas harvester bonuses, mining in a wormhole for 15000m3 of gas worth a ton of ISK. Really starts to annoy this possible new player who just trained 25 days to get into their Prospect. P.S. TO EVERYONE: Say something nice for christ sakes. 18 replies. And i'm dead wrong. It really goes to show that the older players of this game might have stuck around because logging on for them everyday was a MYSTERY. Get a clue... damn ... Of course the MINING FRIGATE is going to have trade offs. But were talking MAJOR Trade offs. So much so I made a thread about how the Prospect is useless. Like read the POST. If you're an idiot PLEASE ... PLEASE ... don't reply to me. The Prospect needs a buff. If only an extra High Slot. Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER ... GAS IS WORTH A LOT HERP DERP DERP. idiots. DERP THERES SPECIAL WORMHOLES FOR MINING FRIGATES DERP INSTEAD OF MAKING THE SHIP BETTER THEY ADDED AN ENTIRE THING IN THIS GAME ONTLY THE PROSPECT COULD DO DEERP. thats a bad sign you idiots.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:29:40 - [21] - Quote Jace Varus wrote: The Venture is vital to gas mining (at least with ease) due to it's 2 warp core stabs that are built in. In addition to this, it serves as a point for people to become interested in mining. Without the venture, mining would become a more specialized and isolated profession. The Prospect and Endurance, though I have not tried them, both seem very good at doing their jobs. They may be needlessly specialized for jobs that are already doable with barges, but it serves as an entrance point, like I stated before. agreed it keeps things simple thats about it. but then we look over at the prospect. and what kind of upgrade is that? like nothing, no yield bonus, no extra high slot for this NEW Covert Ops cloak. like it's terrible. you have a bigger ore hold sure. yes the prospects got more hp has the ability to fit covert ops warps faster prob aligns faster and has a lower sig radius but who cares? your taking a 30 mil dollar ship into a wormhole youre gonna lose some sometimes. and its huge set back compared to the venture. CCP just give it an extra high slot, and abit better yield when it comes to ore mining. new players arent going to see fun. im holding back quite abit by training this tree right now. im losing out on a bunch of isk. more then neccesary. especially when its pretty obvious you intended this vessel to be the vessel im describing but nerfed it before it could hit the game. thank god for the players who dont use a calculator and just assume this ship is great for gas mining cause ... they really keep the game fresh.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1565	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:32:29 - [22] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: New players for instance. Aren't going to see fun. They're going to see yield, numbers. When they went out and gas mined for 6 hours. While their friend hung back and Mined in their barge. Only to see that his friend earned more ISK then him in 1.0 then a ship designed to be fast, fit a scanner, and has gas harvester bonuses, mining in a wormhole for 15000m3 of gas worth a ton of ISK. Really starts to annoy this possible new player who just trained 25 days to get into their Prospect. I think it is kind of rude of you to assume that these hypothetical new players will not be substantially smarter and more capable than you. Quote: P.S. TO EVERYONE: Say something nice for christ sakes. 18 replies. And i'm dead wrong. It really goes to show that the older players of this game might have stuck around because logging on for them everyday was a MYSTERY. Get a clue... damn ... Of course the MINING FRIGATE is going to have trade offs. But were talking MAJOR Trade offs. So much so I made a thread about how the Prospect is useless. Like read the POST. If you're an idiot PLEASE ... PLEASE ... don't reply to me. You made a thread! Good job! I guess that makes you a subject matter expert and not just some guy who has internet access and an active Eve-O subscription! We read the post. The post was ***** stupid, and we explained, in vivid detail, what was stupid about it. Quote:** Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER ... GAS IS WORTH A LOT HERP DERP DERP. idiots. DERP THERES SPECIAL WORMHOLES FOR MINING FRIGATES DERP INSTEAD OF MAKING THE SHIP BETTER THEY ADDED AN ENTIRE THING IN THIS GAME ONTLY THE PROSPECT COULD DO DEERP. thats a bad sign you idiots. What numbers would those be? And having spent large swaths of time living in WH space, I'm going to hazard a guess that I (and most everyone else in this thread telling you that you're wrong) have vastly more experience scanning them down than some whiny daytripper who occasionally pulls on his Superman underoos and lets go of Concord's apron strings for an hour or two. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:37:58 - [23] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: New players for instance. Aren't going to see fun. They're going to see yield, numbers. When they went out and gas mined for 6 hours. While their friend hung back and Mined in their barge. Only to see that his friend earned more ISK then him in 1.0 then a ship designed to be fast, fit a scanner, and has gas harvester bonuses, mining in a wormhole for 15000m3 of gas worth a ton of ISK. Really starts to annoy this possible new player who just trained 25 days to get into their Prospect. I think it is kind of rude of you to assume that these hypothetical new players will not be substantially smarter and more capable than you. Quote: P.S. TO EVERYONE: Say something nice for christ sakes. 18 replies. And i'm dead wrong. It really goes to show that the older players of this game might have stuck around because logging on for them everyday was a MYSTERY. Get a clue... damn ... Of course the MINING FRIGATE is going to have trade offs. But were talking MAJOR Trade offs. So much so I made a thread about how the Prospect is useless. Like read the POST. If you're an idiot PLEASE ... PLEASE ... don't reply to me. You made a thread! Good job! I guess that makes you a subject matter expert and not just some guy who has internet access and an active Eve-O subscription! We read the post. The post was ***** stupid, and we explained, in vivid detail, what was stupid about it. Quote:** Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER ... GAS IS WORTH A LOT HERP DERP DERP. idiots. DERP THERES SPECIAL WORMHOLES FOR MINING FRIGATES DERP INSTEAD OF MAKING THE SHIP BETTER THEY ADDED AN ENTIRE THING IN THIS GAME ONTLY THE PROSPECT COULD DO DEERP. thats a bad sign you idiots. What numbers would those be? And having spent large swaths of time living in WH space, I'm going to hazard a guess that I (and most everyone else in this thread telling you that you're wrong) have vastly more experience scanning them down than some whiny daytripper who occasionally pulls on his Superman underoos and lets go of Concord's apron strings for an hour or two. CCP Ban this guy please. VIVID DETAIL. What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong. right now i've got bigger ore hold less sig radius. um covert ops cloak. i thkn thats the vivid detail i got so far. You're living in your head good bye.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1565	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:50:55 - [24] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: CCP Ban this guy please. VIVID DETAIL. What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong. right now i've got bigger ore hold less sig radius. um covert ops cloak. i thkn thats the vivid detail i got so far. You're living in your head good bye. Numbers on what? Why do you think "THE YIELD" is so important? Yield is relative. Generally speaking, giving a ship any substantial yield advantage without extremely significant downsides just makes that ship "the best" and renders every comparable ship obsolete. Mining barges/exhumers used to be structured this way, and it was pretty much, "If you're mining, you're doing it in a hulk, or you're stupid and wrong." So, they tiericided barges, and now there are 6 very usable ones. You can fly a hulk for maximum yield, but you're going to pay for it with paper thin tank and mediocre cargohold. You can fly a Skiff and have a battleship grade-tank, and it will cost you a bit of yield. Additionally, the abilities of the procurer do, in fact, add up to more yield, in practice. More cargo means less downtime spent unloading cargo. More survivability means more time spent huffing without having to flee. As an aside, for a guy crying about THE NUMBERS so much, you suggested earlier that a catalyst is a better fleet huffer - did you actually run the numbers on that? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 01:55:24 - [25] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: CCP Ban this guy please. VIVID DETAIL. What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong. right now i've got bigger ore hold less sig radius. um covert ops cloak. i thkn thats the vivid detail i got so far. You're living in your head good bye. Numbers on what? Why do you think "THE YIELD" is so important? Yield is relative. Generally speaking, giving a ship any substantial yield advantage without extremely significant downsides just makes that ship "the best" and renders every comparable ship obsolete. Mining barges/exhumers used to be structured this way, and it was pretty much, "If you're mining, you're doing it in a hulk, or you're stupid and wrong." So, they tiericided barges, and now there are 6 very usable ones. You can fly a hulk for maximum yield, but you're going to pay for it with paper thin tank and mediocre cargohold. You can fly a Skiff and have a battleship grade-tank, and it will cost you a bit of yield. Additionally, the abilities of the procurer do, in fact, add up to more yield, in practice. More cargo means less downtime spent unloading cargo. More survivability means more time spent huffing without having to flee. As an aside, for a guy crying about THE NUMBERS so much, you suggested earlier that a catalyst is a better fleet huffer - did you actually run the numbers on that? Um yeah the venture gets two gas harvesters and with a 100% bonus to yield that equivalent to 4 gas harvesters. ANYTHING THAT CAN FIT 5 is going to be better then the venture at least for fleet ops.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1565	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:00:28 - [26] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Um yeah the venture gets two gas harvesters and with a 100% bonus to yield that equivalent to 4 gas harvesters. ANYTHING THAT CAN FIT 5 is going to be better then the venture at least for fleet ops. Here comes the clue train, last stop is you: The venture gets a 100% bonus to yield AND a 25% reduction in gas cloud harvester cycle time, for a grand total of 5.33 effective harvesters, resulting in a no-booster, no-implant maximum yield of 2.67 m3 per second. The 5-harvester Catalyst you've never actually tried to fit gets 2.5 m3 per second and, with ONLY the gas cloud harvesters fit, is at 157.3% of its maximum CPU. Even with 3 co-processors and 2 overclocks, it is more than 3% over. I'd be surprised if you can actually make it fit at a pricepoint lower than a Prospect, nevermind a venture. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:23:01 - [27] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Um yeah the venture gets two gas harvesters and with a 100% bonus to yield that equivalent to 4 gas harvesters. ANYTHING THAT CAN FIT 5 is going to be better then the venture at least for fleet ops. Here comes the clue train, last stop is you: The venture gets a 100% bonus to yield AND a 25% reduction in gas cloud harvester cycle time, for a grand total of 5.33 effective harvesters, resulting in a no-booster, no-implant maximum yield of 2.67 m3 per second. The 5-harvester Catalyst you've never actually tried to fit gets 2.5 m3 per second and, with ONLY the gas cloud harvesters fit, is at 157.3% of its maximum CPU. Even with 3 co-processors and 2 overclocks, it is more than 3% over. I'd be surprised if you can actually make it fit at a pricepoint lower than a Prospect, nevermind a venture. By the way, since shoehorning it together leaves no room for any kind of tank, your catalyst is left with a paltry 3900 EHP. The venture can be fit quite easily with a cold tank of over 7K, aligns faster, has that built in +2 scram strength, lower signature, more cargo... It is objectively better in every way. I mean you're right. But to get that duration you're training up Mining Frigate. And the catalyst is more efficient by default. In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post. you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward. now we gotta get a better ship. oh the prospect. how long? 25+ days cool. oh no yield upgrade. oh no high slot upgrade. im now gonna be flying a glorfied venture the same way id fly a venture for gas mining. 2 gas harvesters and a scanner. cause anchoring a mobile depot is a pain in the ass every time you want to scan. you can really feel this when you enter a wormhole with no gas sites. its ust plain annoying. why do i even care it can fit a covert ops cloak? like you cant mine cloaked which is what youre gonna be doing most of the time presumably. you want it for scanning. when you thing thats scanning is taking up the spot where your cloak would be. so you take off a harvester no big deal. but its just huge pain in the ass. and its not a proper upgrade. not to mention the ore yield. like wheres the ship in the game that ninja mines ore??? there isnt one, well it was supposed to be the prospect. but ina barge johns making 3-4x more mining veld next to concord. then bob is making mining rare ore in dangerous space. well you can expect there to be a trade off. but i mean like .... 3-4x??? like its useless for ore mining. like just agree with me man the prospect needs a buff. it needs yield buffs. and it needs 1 more high slot. why does the endurance do so well. cause the yield is like 75% ish that of a barge for ice mining. and it can fit a scanner and a cloak. which makes it easy to take into dangerous space. hm. thats because the trade off seems reasonable. it does its job, and you hardly if at all lose isk doing it.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1566	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:29:10 - [28] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: I mean you're right. That's the first sane thing you've said. Quote: But to get that duration you're training up Mining Frigate. And the catalyst is more efficient by default. Training up mining frigate? Gosh, that would be awful. Quote: In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post. you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward. So you glossed right over the part where putting 5 GCH IIs on a catalyst puts it 57.3% over its CPU limit, I take it. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:30:13 - [29] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: I mean you're right. That's the first sane thing you've said. Quote: But to get that duration you're training up Mining Frigate. And the catalyst is more efficient by default. Training up mining frigate? With mining In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post. you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward. So you glossed right over the part where putting 5 GCH IIs on a catalyst puts it 57.3% over its CPU limit, I take it.[/quote] dude believe me you can do i use have one and use one i called it a gas hog. but we need to stop talking about the venture man. i already told you i dont really have a problem with the venture. but its damn close to being useless as your 3% says. -your like talking about something your know youre right about. but it isnt even the point of the conversation. like please.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1566	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:33:21 - [30] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: dude believe me you can do i use have one and use one i called it a gas hog. Cool, show us the fit. You can do it with GCH Is, but now you're down to a sad little 1.67 m3 per second. T2s? Doesn't look like it's happening without exotic co-processors (all of which cost more than a prospect hull by itself) or a CPU implant. And, all the fitting modules required means the Venture still tanks more/does literally everything else better, too. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:37:04 - [31] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: dude believe me you can do i use have one and use one i called it a gas hog. Cool, show us the fit. You can do it with GCH Is, but now you're down to a sad little 1.67 m3 per second. T2s? Doesn't look like it's happening without exotic co-processors (all of which cost more than a prospect hull by itself) or a CPU implant. please re read ive eidtted and co processors arent exotic. and the price tag barely even matter were not talking about billions or hundreds of millions were tlaking about 10's of millions if that.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:46:05 - [32] - Quote not to mention i know youre on a fitting site right now checking my stuff. 57.3% over the base cpu limit, you said? why dont you just link the fit while youre there. like... dont be an *sshole
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1566	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:46:41 - [33] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: please re read ive eidtted and co processors arent exotic. The kind you would need to make that fit work are. T2s won't cut it. 3 T2 co-pros and 2 overclock rigs and you're still more than 3% over. You would need a 4% implant, then, and that's close to 100m. Or, you could use 3 "Dyad" co-pros and a 1% implant, that's closer to 50. Of course, this still means you will have less EHP/everything else than a venture.... but don't let that stop you from spending a lot on a horrible fit. A smarter person would use a Cormorant. It's worse than a venture in every way, but at least it's easier to fit. If you have a cheaper one, by all means, share it. Bear in mind that a Prospect hull is only about 17 million, though. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1566	Posted - 2016.01.19 02:49:32 - [34] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: not to mention i know youre on a fitting site right now checking my stuff. 57.3% over the base cpu limit, you said? why dont you just link the fit while youre there. like... dont be an sshole Wait, I've got something for this. Leonerd Dice wrote:* thank god for the players who dont use a calculator and just assume this ship is great for gas mining cause ... they really keep the game fresh. Leonerd Dice wrote: What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong. Leonerd Dice wrote: Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER I was lead to believe that you had already crunched the numbers, friend. I am disheartened to learn you have been remiss in this matter. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 447	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:07:01 - [35] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: less sig radius. um You didn't watch the video I posted earlier, did you? Or did you not understand what you were looking at? Or do you not have even the faintest clue what a reduced Signature Radius does for you? Take a minute to read Feyd's wonderful Daredevil Of Sexytimes article, wherein Harkonnen the Younger introduces us to miracle that is Sig Tanking. The Prospect starts with a 40m Sig Radius, which will drop to 30m at Expedition Frigate V (no links, boosters or implants). A 30m Sig radius? 30m? To give you a comparison: Warrior II light drones have a 25m Sig Radius and when flying my drugged up (~ISK20m/hour for Strong X-Instinct), linked, billion ISK Halo pod Dramiel I manage a teensy 16m, which is as small as you can get without having a Ragnarok in fleet and in-system with you. Seriously, that little bonus is far, far more powerful than you appear to give it credit for. Leonerd Dice wrote: why do i even care it can fit a covert ops cloak? If you don't recognise the HUGE benefits of having that CovOps cloak, then the Prospect is definitely not the ship for you. Leonerd Dice wrote: why does the endurance do so well. cause the yield is like 75% ish that of a barge for ice mining. and it can fit a scanner and a cloak. which makes it easy to take into dangerous space. hm. Note that the Endurance cannot fit a CovOps cloak, only a regular one for which it receives a few bonuses. It cannot warp while cloaked, light a Covert Cyno or take a Black Ops jump bridge, things the Prospect CAN do. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:14:07 - [36] - Quote Mephiztopheleze wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: less sig radius. um You didn't watch the video I posted earlier, did you? Or did you not understand what you were looking at? Or do you not have even the faintest clue what a reduced Signature Radius does for you? Take a minute to read Feyd's wonderful Daredevil Of Sexytimes article, wherein Harkonnen the Younger introduces us to miracle that is Sig Tanking. The Prospect starts with a 40m Sig Radius, which will drop to 30m at Expedition Frigate V (no links, boosters or implants). A 30m Sig radius? 30m? To give you a comparison: Warrior II light drones have a 25m Sig Radius and when flying my drugged up (~ISK20m/hour for Strong X-Instinct), linked, billion ISK Halo pod Dramiel I manage a teensy 16m, which is as small as you can get without having a Leviathan in fleet and in-system with you. Seriously, that little bonus is far, far more powerful than you appear to give it credit for. Leonerd Dice wrote: why do i even care it can fit a covert ops cloak? If you don't recognise the HUGE benefits of having that CovOps cloak, then the Prospect is definitely not the ship for you. Leonerd Dice wrote: why does the endurance do so well. cause the yield is like 75% ish that of a barge for ice mining. and it can fit a scanner and a cloak. which makes it easy to take into dangerous space. hm. Note that the Endurance cannot fit a CovOps cloak, only a regular one for which it receives a few bonuses. It cannot warp while cloaked, light a Covert Cyno or take a Black Ops jump bridge, things the Prospect CAN do. ya i watched it the prospect's new use comes in an unknown form. after training for 30-60 days to get into one and up all its role bonuses. i can now train for another 10-20 days for modules so that sleeper rats can shoot at me while i mine gas with no problem. it means when i find a really good gas site i can get both clouds of gas even when the sleeper rats are shooting at me. this reduces scanning time. that's good. ill admit its got that purpose. but no offense it's still not impressing me as a 25+ training time upgrade. especially for ore mining. and especially since you cant have a god damned cloak ont here with a god damned probe launcher at the same time. like what makes that so OP?? ps i recognise the benefits of a covert ops cloak. thats why i want one on there with a probe launcher at the same time.... i think were in agreeance here. and i read the last thing about how a normal cloak is just such junk compared to the covert ops one. um ... who cares .... you cant mine cloaked the only time you REALLY need to cloaked is when your attention is on scanning sites and youre just floating around in space which a normal cloak does pretty nicely. warping into a gas site cloaked lol. so what??
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1569	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:20:57 - [37] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: and i read the last thing about how a normal cloak is just such junk compared to the covert ops one. um ... who cares .... you cant mine cloaked the only time you REALLY need to cloaked is when your attention is on scanning sites and youre just floating around in space which a normal cloak does pretty nicely. warping into a gas site cloaked lol. so what?? Anyone with the foresight to scout the system for potential threats and would like to do so without being seen? At least for any system more than one D-scan range across. Do you even play this game? They're also handy if you land in a bubble. No need to drop cloak after you slowboat out, just... warp away. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:21:34 - [38] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: not to mention i know youre on a fitting site right now checking my stuff. 57.3% over the base cpu limit, you said? why dont you just link the fit while youre there. like... dont be an sshole Wait, I've got something for this. Leonerd Dice wrote:* thank god for the players who dont use a calculator and just assume this ship is great for gas mining cause ... they really keep the game fresh. Leonerd Dice wrote: What numbers? NO WITH YOUR VIVID DETAIL ---YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS if im so wrong. Leonerd Dice wrote: Thanks Folks ... Don't post if you haven't crunched the numbers. "DER THE PROSPECT HAS A BIGGER ORE HOLD DEER. NEVER SCANNED FOR A WORMHOLE IN MY LIFE ... DER I was lead to believe that you had already crunched the numbers, friend. I am disheartened to learn you have been remiss in this matter. nonon ive literally got a peice of paper here. i dont need a website to do it for me. for every 48 units of gas the venture brings in with MAXED OUT skills. the catalyst or something that can fit 5 modules brings in 45 units. i have to stress this is after lots of training because when a venture has mining frigate 4. for every 48 units of gas it brings in so does the catalyst or equivalent. -AND PLEASE LET ME HIGHLIGHT. I'm more concerned with the fact that the Prospect isn't a proper upgrade. it's terrible.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1569	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:23:57 - [39] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: nonon ive literally got a peice of paper here. i dont need a website to do it for me. Apparently you do, because left to your own devices, you've put 350 CPU worth of modules onto a ship with 222.5 CPU (at max skills). "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:28:01 - [40] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: nonon ive literally got a peice of paper here. i dont need a website to do it for me. Apparently you do, because left to your own devices, you've put 350 CPU worth of modules onto a ship with 222.5 CPU (at max skills). FOR FCK SAKES MAN. I USE TO HAVE ONE. you're probably forgetting skill bonuses. not to mention you said it yourself. there are other ships out there like the NAGA that can fit 5 harvesters with no cpu issues. SO THE POINT IS THAT A SHIP THAT CAN FIT 5 HARVESTERS IS PRACTICALLY OUTMINING THE VENTURE UNTIL IT GETS IN MINING FRIGATE 5. **WHICH IS NOT THE POINT OF THE FORUM. A venture is fine for gas mining. its a tech 1 you hardly have to train to get the thing to gas mine in the first place. it's great. and it works fairly good too. NOW WHAT ABOUT THE PROSPECT !!???
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 447	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:30:01 - [41] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: ya i watched it the prospect's new use comes in an unknown form. after training for 30-60 days to get into one and up all its role bonuses. i can now train for another 10-20 days for modules so that sleeper rats can shoot at me while i mine gas with no problem. it means when i find a really good gas site i can get both clouds of gas even when the sleeper rats are shooting at me. this reduces scanning time. that's good. Said "really good gas site" is probably worth >ISK100m/Prospect Load. That's better ISK/hr than Incursions for a lot less training time (you seen how long the train for large turrets V is?) Leonerd Dice wrote: ill admit its got that purpose. but no offense it's still not impressing me as a 25+ training time upgrade. especially for ore mining. and especially since you cant have a god damned cloak ont here with a god damned probe launcher at the same time. like what makes that so OP?? ps i recognise the benefits of a covert ops cloak. thats why i want one on there with a probe launcher at the same time.... i think were in agreeance here. Mobile Depots are a thing you know? They don't take that long to setup. Sure, it'd be nice to have that extra high slot and I wouldn't object to it happening, but I'm not going to write off the entire vessel for that one perceived 'lack'. Leonerd Dice wrote: and i read the last thing about how a normal cloak is just such junk compared to the covert ops one. um ... who cares .... I never said the regular cloak was 'junk' or that the Endurance's bonuses for cloaks were useless, please don't put words in my mouth like that. Leonerd Dice wrote: you cant mine cloaked the only time you REALLY need to cloaked is when your attention is on scanning sites and youre just floating around in space which a normal cloak does pretty nicely. warping into a gas site cloaked lol. so what?? Well, I'd sure find it handy to be able to warp off my cloud at the first sign of Scan Probes in space and go invisible. Or just burn off the cloud a little and cloak up, ready to sneaky warp away if something lands at the site. And you're ignoring the Cov Cyno and BLOPS Bridgeable capabilities of the Prospect. I know some drug manufacturers that routinely bridge fleets of Prospects around. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1570	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:34:44 - [42] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: nonon ive literally got a peice of paper here. i dont need a website to do it for me. Apparently you do, because left to your own devices, you've put 350 CPU worth of modules onto a ship with 222.5 CPU (at max skills). FOR FCK SAKES MAN. I USE TO HAVE ONE. Cool, post the fit. Quote:* you're probably forgetting skill bonuses. No, I'm pretty certain that's not the case. Quote: there are other ships out there like the NAGA that can fit 5 harvesters with no cpu issues. Back in your first post you were complaining about the cost of a Prospect making it scary to bring into wormholes, now you're suggesting a gas-harvester fit... Naga? What would you name it? "Free lulzy killmail for any stealth bomber (or damn near anything else, for that matter) who happens by" is kind of a mouthful and I am pretty sure there are character limits. :\ "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:35:09 - [43] - Quote Mephiztopheleze wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: ya i watched it the prospect's new use comes in an unknown form. after training for 30-60 days to get into one and up all its role bonuses. i can now train for another 10-20 days for modules so that sleeper rats can shoot at me while i mine gas with no problem. it means when i find a really good gas site i can get both clouds of gas even when the sleeper rats are shooting at me. this reduces scanning time. that's good. Said "really good gas site" is probably worth >ISK100m/Prospect Load. That's better ISK/hr than Incursions for a lot less training time (you seen how long the train for large turrets V is?) Leonerd Dice wrote: ill admit its got that purpose. but no offense it's still not impressing me as a 25+ training time upgrade. especially for ore mining. and especially since you cant have a god damned cloak ont here with a god damned probe launcher at the same time. like what makes that so OP?? ps i recognise the benefits of a covert ops cloak. thats why i want one on there with a probe launcher at the same time.... i think were in agreeance here. Mobile Depots are a thing you know? They don't take that long to setup. Sure, it'd be nice to have that extra high slot and I wouldn't object to it happening, but I'm not going to write off the entire vessel for that one perceived 'lack'. Leonerd Dice wrote: and i read the last thing about how a normal cloak is just such junk compared to the covert ops one. um ... who cares .... I never said the regular cloak was 'junk' or that the Endurance's bonuses for cloaks were useless, please don't put words in my mouth like that. Leonerd Dice wrote: you cant mine cloaked the only time you REALLY need to cloaked is when your attention is on scanning sites and youre just floating around in space which a normal cloak does pretty nicely. warping into a gas site cloaked lol. so what?? Well, I'd sure find it handy to be able to warp off my cloud at the first sign of Scan Probes in space and go invisible. Or just burn off the cloud a little and cloak up, ready to sneaky warp away if something lands at the site. And you're ignoring the Cov Cyno and BLOPS Bridgeable capabilities of the Prospect. I know some drug manufacturers that routinely bridge fleets of Prospects around. see this is you assuming. i use to gas mine. and i use to do the math. believe me it needs a buff. especially for its ore yield.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:41:23 - [44] - Quote Quote: there are other ships out there like the NAGA that can fit 5 harvesters with no cpu issues. Back in your first post you were complaining about the cost of a Prospect making it scary to bring into wormholes, now you're suggesting a gas-harvester fit... Naga? What would you name it? "Free lulzy killmail for any stealth bomber (or damn near anything else, for that matter) who happens by" is kind of a mouthful and I am pretty sure there are character limits. :\[/quote] I'm done with you. Please breed as much as you can before you die. I love conversations with no goal, no direction and where there's no end because I'm always wrong. I can't even imagine how your brain works. I legit think, you think you're actually talking about the same thing I'm talking about and bringing up valid points. I'm done talking to you.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1570	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:44:20 - [45] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: I'm done with you. Please breed as much as you can before you die. I love conversations with no goal, no direction and where there's no end because I'm always wrong. I can't even imagine how your brain works. I legit think, you think you're actually talking about the same thing I'm talking about and bringing up valid points. I'm done talking to you. I just think it is very weird that someone who, just a few posts back, was making such a ruckus about people not doing the math, is suddenly very averse to showing a fit with workable numbers. Surely this should be a trivial task for an Eve numbers-ninja such as yourself. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7415	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:50:51 - [46] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: I'm done with you. Please breed as much as you can before you die. I love conversations with no goal, no direction and where there's no end because I'm always wrong. I can't even imagine how your brain works. I legit think, you think you're actually talking about the same thing I'm talking about and bringing up valid points. I'm done talking to you. And here we have Projection, fawning in its native habitat of blind arrogance. Watch as it scurries about, attempting to deny its flaws with unsubstantiated accusations of flaws in others. Oh, look, it found a mate, Entitlement. Don't they make a lovely couple? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 244	Posted - 2016.01.19 03:52:15 - [47] - Quote i've reported this thread for trolling and/or ranting. @op, if you can't recognize the capability of prospect to equip a covert ops cloak, then ...\|..., you're a moron. good day. o7 Just Add Water
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 9461	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:11:54 - [48] - Quote I humored the OP. With max skills... Without a (single) T2 Co-Processor... - the Catalyst has 222 CPU - the Venture has 300 CPU - the Prospect has 362 CPU With a (single) T2 Co-Processor... - the Catalyst has 244 CPU - the Venture has 330 CPU - the Prospect has 398 CPU tldr; the OP is wrong about a bunch of things and doesn't know what he is talking about. Oh yeah... and you are still missing the fundamental aspect that no ship in EVE can do everything perfectly without making serious tradeoffs in another area. Scanning and mining are two VERY different things and thus require two very different fits. How did you Veterans start? "Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:19:05 - [49] - Quote Wow this is the Eve Community ladies and gentleman. These are real people. P.S. I think I used a special catalyst edition back in the day. and ended up using a Naga just because it was easier to fit 5 Tech II Gas Harvesters. So it's funny. I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful. ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG. Try to understand this future person who searches this thread on google. Hopefully by then the Prospects been buffed.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1574	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:28:01 - [50] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Wow this is the Eve Community ladies and gentleman. These are real people. P.S. I think I used a special catalyst edition back in the day. and ended up using a Naga just because it was easier to fit 5 Tech II Gas Harvesters. There is no "special catalyst edition" with different fitting stats. I mean, I guess you could use an Eris? Still turns into a total shitfit, though. Quote: So it's funny. I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful. Can I be Shahfluffers? He's dreamy. Quote: ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG. Try to understand this future person who searches this thread on google. Hopefully by then the Prospects been buffed. I understand they're going to see a bunch of different people provide lucid, mathematically supported explanations for why almost everything you have said is objectively incorrect, and apoplectic, caps-lock riddled fits from you in response. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7416	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:32:35 - [51] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Wow this is the Eve Community ladies and gentleman. These are real people. P.S. I think I used a special catalyst edition back in the day. and ended up using a Naga just because it was easier to fit 5 Tech II Gas Harvesters. So it's funny. I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful. ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG. Try to understand this future person who searches this thread on google. Hopefully by then the Prospects been buffed. Confirming I'm your alt and you're just as bad as everyone else. GG. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7417	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:39:30 - [52] - Quote But seriously though, you want to know what's really awful? When someone like you who doesn't know what he's talking about rages about the EVE community being awful just because they criticise you and demonstrate that they, who have been at this a long time now, do know what they're talking about. They DEMONSTRATED it. "You're awful" =/= "you're wrong". You're attempting to dismiss the points made both against your misinformation and for your benefit and instead of learning from them, you hold your ground and stomp your feet like a child throwing a tantrum in denial because you can't handle the fact that you simply aren't going to get your own way. That's what's awful here. Not just awful, but rotten, indignant, and so intellectually dishonest that I would take a monkey with a communications major more seriously than you. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1465	Posted - 2016.01.19 04:44:18 - [53] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: I'm always wrong. Glad you got there in the end. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 9463	Posted - 2016.01.19 05:00:56 - [54] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful. Check my posting history. I am often haunting the New Citizens Q & A dispensing all the knowledge I have to offer... even though doing so denies me potential targets. Leonerd Dice wrote: ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG. Familiarize yourself with the slag definition of "moted." Don't feel too bad. A lot of us have done what you are doing now; declaring that something is bad (or "useless") because it doesn't do everything you need it to in one simple package... pulling numbers from thin air... being indignant. In time you laugh about this as I laugh about the crap I have said in the past. SurrenderMonkey wrote: Can I be Shahfluffers? He's dreamy. Giggity. How did you Veterans start? "Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2702	Posted - 2016.01.19 05:17:17 - [55] - Quote K. I've got my yellow rain coat and galoshes on here. I'm gonna now spout my opinion in all of its glory on this ship I've yet to fly... (I have flown ventures before, just not the prospect) The CovOps cloak and small sig radius are a big deal. The cloak has been covered by other wise folks, but recap... Warping cloaked, crashing gate camps, bubbles, covops cynos and bridges. Sig radius for the bits described above, even if you aren't flying one of these things with malicious intent. That low sig radius means increased lock time from baddies and increased scan time with combat probes... giving an alert pilot more time to take defensive measures (read that as cloak up and GTFO). The venture is a cheap gas mining frigate that is fast to train into and is pretty much expendable. The prospect is for mining in scary places where you would not likely survive long enough to bring your haul back in a venture. Of course in order to utilize it properly you have to accept that it fills a different role, rather than being a straight upgrade. It yields better because in the places it mines you yield nothing in a venture or a barge, because dead ships mine no ore/gas/ice. So really, all the bickering about numbers is pretty much irrelevant. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Tyyler DURden Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co. 182	Posted - 2016.01.19 05:19:37 - [56] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Wow this is the Eve Community ladies and gentleman. These are real people. P.S. I think I used a special catalyst edition back in the day. and ended up using a Naga just because it was easier to fit 5 Tech II Gas Harvesters. So it's funny. I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful. ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG. Try to understand this future person who searches this thread on google. Hopefully by then the Prospects been buffed. Take a good look at yourself in the mirror bro. You ever thought about bringing your particular brand of drivel over to the c&p subforum? Those guys over there would just LOVE to hear all your awesome opinions. Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Pix Severus Mew Age Outpaws 2252	Posted - 2016.01.19 05:31:12 - [57] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: I have the feeling here too that it's one guy with multiple accounts. Eve's really bad for this. People owning sometimes up to 10 accounts maybe more. And on each of them pretending to be someone else. Just awful. Spoilers: Everyone in this thread (except you) is just me trolling with multiple accounts. My lord.
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 467	Posted - 2016.01.19 05:54:28 - [58] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Spoilers: Everyone in this thread (except you) is just me trolling with multiple accounts. the multi-alt trolling potential of this thread is staggering, such ripe and golden opportunities should be celebrated especially when the OP is exploding in ALL CAPS by page two. Well played, Sir. Alas, I am gainfully employed at current and can't devote the necessary effort to join you in the sport. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1577	Posted - 2016.01.19 05:55:42 - [59] - Quote Mephiztopheleze wrote: Pix Severus wrote: Spoilers: Everyone in this thread (except you) is just me trolling with multiple accounts. the multi-alt trolling potential of this thread is staggering, such ripe and golden opportunities should be celebrated especially when the OP is exploding in ALL CAPS by page two. Well played, Sir. Alas, I am gainfully employed at current and can't devote the necessary effort to join you in the sport. You two are definitely alts. I mean, just look at the avatars. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Dr Slave PhD Original Sinners Tactical Narcotics Team 0	Posted - 2016.01.19 06:01:52 - [60] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Mephiztopheleze wrote: Pix Severus wrote: Spoilers: Everyone in this thread (except you) is just me trolling with multiple accounts. the multi-alt trolling potential of this thread is staggering, such ripe and golden opportunities should be celebrated especially when the OP is exploding in ALL CAPS by page two. Well played, Sir. Alas, I am gainfully employed at current and can't devote the necessary effort to join you in the sport. You two are definitely alts. I mean, just look at the avatars. Aha dammit...
Savnire Jacitu Abysmal Gentlemen We Didn't Mean It 324	Posted - 2016.01.19 10:20:44 - [61] - Quote Venture makes a great pvp ship. A pvp ship for fun.
Mithandra Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn 430	Posted - 2016.01.19 10:41:36 - [62] - Quote No purpose? Ha Hahahahahahaha heh. Sorry about that. Ninja mining wormhole gas clouds with a few t2 mining frigs is both extremely profitable and lots of fun. The sheer speed and covops cloak capability make these puppies awesome in this role, plus relatively speaking, they are so cheap, one successful op is usually enough to pay off the cost of the ship. Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2704	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:00:25 - [63] - Quote Savnire Jacitu wrote: Venture makes a great pvp ship. A pvp ship for fun. This reminds me that I need to dust off one of my battle ventures... it's been a while. Never successfully scored a good kill with one, but they are fun to try at least. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:00:38 - [64] - Quote Mithandra wrote: No purpose? Ha Hahahahahahaha heh. Sorry about that. Ninja mining wormhole gas clouds with a few t2 mining frigs is both extremely profitable and lots of fun. The sheer speed and covops cloak capability make these puppies awesome in this role, plus relatively speaking, they are so cheap, one successful op is usually enough to pay off the cost of the ship. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA You can't see the bigger picture. I can't disagree with you. You fill up that sucker with gas and it pays for itself in one load.
Roberta Gastoni Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:35:50 - [65] - Quote I'll try be constructive and post a small comparison between a venture and a prospect, based on my experiences 1) Cost and training time The venture is a winner, costing only 250k isk versus the 20mil something and almost 20+ days of training for a prospect. The venture is the way to go for mining in a very dangerous space, where probably you are going to die in clone without implants, making the risk/reward ratio most likely pending on your side. 2) Cargo and Ore Hold. I didn't say cargo hold for mistake or to troll, the cargo hold is what's making a prospect shine. A venture has only 50m2, making it actually impossible to bring a mobile depot and something else to fit, and the only way to refit in space without a mobile depot is either a ship with a ship hangar and a ship hangar in PoS. If you are ninja mining in wh / low / null space, much likely you wont have any of the two, and it can happen you pass from harvesting gas to mining mercoxit in the same trip. Ore hold is also important, even if you have a wormhole taking you from your safe high sec home to a dangerous space, be it a c1 to 3, low or null, minimizing your trips also reduce the chance someone is awaiting you at the gate / wormhole to kill you and steal your precious cargo. 3) Tanking ability. Both can sig tank and speed tank decently, a venture has +2 warp core stab while the prospect easly have twice the EHP of the venture. If you orbit gas clouds, it's very hard to get surprised, as the clouds have something like 75 km of radius and if you get surprised it's a stealth bomber. You are dead in both ways. 4) Cloaking, or lack of thereof I found the fact of having the cloak to be marginal in my choices of ship, it's ofc nice to be able to cloak the entire fleet, from the scout to the mining ship, but not a dealbreaker. Cloak saved me a couple of times, but considering that most of the times you are uncloaked harvesting gas / ore it's not as important as you think it is. In conclusion, the prospect is not a direct upgrade of the venture, it's a ship that follow the mining theme of the venture, but also it's designed to do different, more advanced things of course of a different price tag too. Also, for the op, if you want a ship that can mine ore, cloak, use a scan probe launcher, refit in space with a depot and with a huge cargo hold, try the endurance.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17364	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:48:50 - [66] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: NOW WHAT ABOUT THE PROSPECT !!??? Doesn't it have the ability to fit a covops cloak? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:11:59 - [67] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: NOW WHAT ABOUT THE PROSPECT !!??? Doesn't it have the ability to fit a covops cloak? Yeah you can't fit it while you have a probe launcher attached unless you take off one harvester. or use a mobile depot which just gets annoying.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 246	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:49:42 - [68] - Quote guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only. @OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade. i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok? Just Add Water
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:43:07 - [69] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only. @OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade. i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok? Why isn't there an upgrade to yield. And a high slot?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17370	Posted - 2016.01.19 14:03:14 - [70] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Malcanis wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: NOW WHAT ABOUT THE PROSPECT !!??? Doesn't it have the ability to fit a covops cloak? Yeah you can't fit it while you have a probe launcher attached unless you take off one harvester. or use a mobile depot which just gets annoying. But you can easily refit it in space to add the probe launcher (or, more practically, fly out with the probe launcher fitted and then refit the harvesters when you've bookmarked the gas sites), right? So it can, as a matter of practical usage, do something that other gas mining ships absolutely cant do, right? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 9468	Posted - 2016.01.19 17:11:03 - [71] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only. @OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade. i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok? Why isn't there an upgrade to yield. And a high slot? Because you are getting the ability to cloak along with a bunch of other ancillary benefits. If you look around at other ships you will see pretty much the same "issue." Assault Frigates and Interceptors are technically "upgrades" of Tech 1 Frigates. And yet, they are not. AFs trade speed and agility for extra durability and some damage. Interceptors trade durability and damage for speed and agility. Stealth Bombers give up speed, agility, and durability for damage dealing (its only real defense is its ability to cloak and pick and choose engagements). And none of these ships are designed to be "cost effective" relative to Tech 1 ships or "do everything" in one nice, neat package. How did you Veterans start? "Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
Angel T Hunter Brutor Tribe 39	Posted - 2016.01.19 17:18:18 - [72] - Quote tl;dr?
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1584	Posted - 2016.01.19 17:27:05 - [73] - Quote Angel T Hunter wrote: tl;dr? Mad 'cause bad. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7432	Posted - 2016.01.19 18:40:06 - [74] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Savnire Jacitu wrote: Venture makes a great pvp ship. A pvp ship for fun. This reminds me that I need to dust off one of my battle ventures... it's been a while. Never successfully scored a good kill with one, but they are fun to try at least. Your battle venture vs my velator of DOOM! 1v1 at 0 bruh. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7432	Posted - 2016.01.19 18:45:47 - [75] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only. @OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade. i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok? Why isn't there an upgrade to yield. And a high slot? Because you are getting the ability to cloak along with a bunch of other ancillary benefits. If you look around at other ships you will see pretty much the same "issue." Assault Frigates. Interceptors, and Stealth Bombers are technically "upgrades" of Tech 1 Frigates. And yet, they are not. AFs trade speed and agility for extra durability and some damage. Interceptors trade durability and damage for speed and agility. Stealth Bombers give up speed, agility, and durability for damage dealing (its only real defense is the ability to cloak and pick and choose engagements). And none of these ships are designed to be "cost effective" relative to Tech 1 ships or "do everything" in one nice, neat package. Pretty much this, I see a lot of people making the mistake of assuming that T2 = 'better'. But you usually sacrifice a lot of versatility for speciality when you go T2. I would argue the only exceptions being assault frigates, HACs and Marauders, generally speaking t2 =/= upgrade. It's more about role focusing. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1079	Posted - 2016.01.19 19:31:17 - [76] - Quote Angel T Hunter wrote: tl;dr? This is another one of these threads where I'd like to eavesdrop on devs discussing player desires. Remove insurance.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17377	Posted - 2016.01.19 20:11:04 - [77] - Quote Angel T Hunter wrote: tl;dr? There's not one definitely best ship. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1850	Posted - 2016.01.19 23:15:04 - [78] - Quote On a totally unrelated and off topic note - does anyone actually ever use a Prospect to light cynos ?
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 43616	Posted - 2016.01.20 00:26:12 - [79] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only. @OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade. i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok? Why isn't there an upgrade to yield. And a high slot? There is an upgrade to yield in comparison to the venture. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 00:50:04 - [80] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only. @OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade. i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok? Why isn't there an upgrade to yield. And a high slot? There is an upgrade to yield in comparison to the venture. You got me there again.
Thorian Baalnorn Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S 15	Posted - 2016.01.20 01:23:27 - [81] - Quote No one mines for best isk/hr income...except maybe newbs. If your mining its because you enjoy it or you just dont know any better. Mining, like PI and similar professions doesnt compete with blowing stuff up in ISK an hour. People still do them, mostly because they enjoy the activity not the isk. Mining frigates give them more options and ways to make big rocks into little rocks, make snow cones, and huff gas. The reason you dont see them is because everyone that is using one doesnt want to be seen and thats sort of the purpose.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 02:25:33 - [82] - Quote Thorian Baalnorn wrote: No one mines for best isk/hr income...except maybe newbs. If your mining its because you enjoy it or you just dont know any better. Mining, like PI and similar professions doesnt compete with blowing stuff up in ISK an hour. People still do them, mostly because they enjoy the activity not the isk. Mining frigates give them more options and ways to make big rocks into little rocks, make snow cones, and huff gas. The reason you dont see them is because everyone that is using one doesnt want to be seen and thats sort of the purpose. How am I supposed to enjoy the Prospect When I can't even have it cloaked?
Sevchenko Valens Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:16:38 - [83] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: How am I supposed to enjoy the Prospect When I can't even have it cloaked? You can put a cloak on it, you won't be able to do anything but you can still do it.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:19:25 - [84] - Quote Sevchenko Valens wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: How am I supposed to enjoy the Prospect When I can't even have it cloaked? You can put a cloak on it, you won't be able to do anything but you can still do it. My bad I was wrong again. "Stupid Stupid." I was dead wrong too. I said you couldn't fit a claok. And you actually can fit a cloack. 100% wrong.
Paranoid Loyd 8219	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:26:10 - [85] - Quote How is this a 5 page thread? If any of you haven't had the pleasure of viewing the link in my sig, now is the time. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7434	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:29:51 - [86] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: How is this a 5 page thread? If any of you haven't had the pleasure of viewing the link in my sig, now is the time. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Pet CONCORD. OMG, my sides. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1605	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:37:23 - [87] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: How is this a 5 page thread? If any of you haven't had the pleasure of viewing the link in my sig, now is the time. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Pet CONCORD. OMG, my sides. Now just turn it on its side and make it ******* vertical. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 469	Posted - 2016.01.20 03:59:49 - [88] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: On a totally unrelated and off topic note - does anyone actually ever use a Prospect to light cynos ? It's certainly been known to happen. a quick search of your favourite killboard for "Covert Cynosural Field Generator" will start. Generally fit with probes, scram/web and a hull tank. CPU is very tight. Sevchenko Valens wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: How am I supposed to enjoy the Prospect When I can't even have it cloaked? You can put a cloak on it, you won't be able to do anything but you can still do it. not quite. you can warp while cloaked. some capsuleers are of the opinion that this is kind of a big deal, and a rather useful thing to be able to do. others, not so much. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 9469	Posted - 2016.01.20 04:03:15 - [89] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: How is this a 5 page thread? If any of you haven't had the pleasure of viewing the link in my sig, now is the time. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Pet CONCORD. OMG, my sides. Hehe... glad you enjoyed it. You might also enjoy this one: Trucker-Impel @ Loyd... use this version of it. The one you linked has a typo in it. http://i.imgur.com/m3uEfHq.png How did you Veterans start? "Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7435	Posted - 2016.01.20 05:05:38 - [90] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: How is this a 5 page thread? If any of you haven't had the pleasure of viewing the link in my sig, now is the time. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Pet CONCORD. OMG, my sides. Hehe... glad you enjoyed it. You might also enjoy this one: Trucker-Impel @ Loyd... use this version of it. The one you linked has a typo in it. http://i.imgur.com/m3uEfHq.png That's awesome because it's pretty much how I fly my Impel on my alt. "outta the way, boys. you're all gonna get ganked anyway so might as well just self destruct noaw." GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy ChaosTheory. 2399	Posted - 2016.01.20 05:55:53 - [91] - Quote Poddington Bare wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it. I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business! I got a little further than that. The point where I stopped reading was when I was wondering whether the op had heard of mobile depots before. How long have they been in the game now?
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 06:36:07 - [92] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: Poddington Bare wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it. I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business! I got a little further than that. The point where I stopped reading was when I was wondering whether the op had heard of mobile depots before. How long have they been in the game now? You shoulda kept reading we discussed that. It's annoying. And the prospect isnt a proper upgrade. and the yield is way outta whack. Cause I mean it's a Gas Miner not a Cyno Lighter. So everytime you go to mine some gas youre switching that thing in and out in and out. With every process with every cycle.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7438	Posted - 2016.01.20 07:07:28 - [93] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Poddington Bare wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: The only purpose/value these ships have is fun. It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it. I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business! I got a little further than that. The point where I stopped reading was when I was wondering whether the op had heard of mobile depots before. How long have they been in the game now? You shoulda kept reading we discussed that. It's annoying. And the prospect isnt a proper upgrade. and the yield is way outta whack. Cause I mean it's a Gas Miner not a Cyno Lighter. So everytime you go to mine some gas youre switching that thing in and out in and out. With every process with every cycle. What part of "it's not meant to be an upgrade, it's meant to be a specialisation" are you struggling with here? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7438	Posted - 2016.01.20 07:18:12 - [94] - Quote I just threw this together in eft [Prospect, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Still room to upgrade that micro to an enduring or a t2, even with dual medium asb, enough to tank surprise sleepers, with a velocity of 3.8km/s, giving you a good chance to burn out of range of other surprise attackers, and of course, the covops cloak and a warp speed of 8.4. I don't even mine, or do wh, and was just trying to think of what might provide the best chance for survival for one gas mining in wh. I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. The fact that I can fit dual MASB on a small ship is pretty incredible though, and yield is 160 with all lvl 5 skills. Definitely fits the bill of a specialised gas mining ship in my book. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 10:38:06 - [95] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: I just threw this together in eft [Prospect, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Still room to upgrade that micro to an enduring or a t2, even with dual medium asb, enough to tank surprise sleepers, with a velocity of 3.8km/s, giving you a good chance to burn out of range of other surprise attackers, and of course, the covops cloak and a warp speed of 8.4. I don't even mine, or do wh, and was just trying to think of what might provide the best chance for survival for one gas mining in wh. I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. The fact that I can fit dual MASB on a small ship without gimping AND have the MWD is pretty incredible though, and yield is 160 with all lvl 5 skills. Definitely fits the bill of a specialised gas mining ship in my book. how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7443	Posted - 2016.01.20 10:55:55 - [96] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: I just threw this together in eft [Prospect, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Still room to upgrade that micro to an enduring or a t2, even with dual medium asb, enough to tank surprise sleepers, with a velocity of 3.8km/s, giving you a good chance to burn out of range of other surprise attackers, and of course, the covops cloak and a warp speed of 8.4. I don't even mine, or do wh, and was just trying to think of what might provide the best chance for survival for one gas mining in wh. I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. The fact that I can fit dual MASB on a small ship without gimping AND have the MWD is pretty incredible though, and yield is 160 with all lvl 5 skills. Definitely fits the bill of a specialised gas mining ship in my book. how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. It is, actually, it's intended in the game design. T2 = specialisation. T2 =/= upgrade. You've had this explained to you multiple times by multiple people, and your further denial of this simple fact of the game is your own failure. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:06:57 - [97] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: I just threw this together in eft [Prospect, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Still room to upgrade that micro to an enduring or a t2, even with dual medium asb, enough to tank surprise sleepers, with a velocity of 3.8km/s, giving you a good chance to burn out of range of other surprise attackers, and of course, the covops cloak and a warp speed of 8.4. I don't even mine, or do wh, and was just trying to think of what might provide the best chance for survival for one gas mining in wh. I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. The fact that I can fit dual MASB on a small ship without gimping AND have the MWD is pretty incredible though, and yield is 160 with all lvl 5 skills. Definitely fits the bill of a specialised gas mining ship in my book. how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. It is, actually, it's intended in the game design. T2 = specialisation. T2 =/= upgrade. You've had this explained to you multiple times by multiple people, and your further denial of this simple fact of the game is your own failure. Well then they need to make a new ship i guess. I guess were hooped by the tech ii rule. and no one in a prospect flys happy until this new ship comes out. its cool though. well have a venture an endurance the new ship and the cyno lighter that mine gas pretty well with the big ol ore hold.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7443	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:16:33 - [98] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Well then they need to make a new ship i guess. I guess were hooped by the tech ii rule. and no one in a prospect flys happy until this new ship comes out. its cool though. well have a venture an endurance the new ship and the cyno lighter that mine gas pretty well with the big ol ore hold. That's where you're mistaken. There are plenty of people using the prospect for its specialised role just fine. What makes you think a new ship is justified? Because you and you alone on this thread don't understand how T2 works? No, get out. Again, you demonstrate a failure to learn from your errors and instead choose to stand your ground as if you know something the rest of us, who have been at this a long time now, don't. Word of advice: if you don't have experience as a surgeon, you probably shouldn't pretend to know something about surgery. Same thing applies to EVE. Get some experience first, and some understanding. If you do that, one day you can look back on this thread and say to yourself, "wow, I was such an arrogant little noob back then. Glad I learned something" while you explain game mechanics to a new noob who's acting the same way you are now. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 248	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:21:37 - [99] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. no rule is needed, only common sense, and this is common knowledge so you really can't argue about this. you can even see it in ISIS in-game, tech 2s are specializations and the closest that can be considered an upgrade is the next "bigger" hull. in this case from a venture, a mining frigate to a procurer, a mining barge. so the progression would be for mining vessels is frigate -> procurer. while in pvp ships, from smallest to biggest: frigate -> destroyers -> cruisers -> battlecruisers -> battleship -> dreadnought/carrier -> titan/supercarrier. Just Add Water
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:30:21 - [100] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. no rule is needed, only common sense, and this is common knowledge so you really can't argue about this. you can even see it in ISIS in-game, tech 2s are specializations and the closest that can be considered an upgrade is the next "bigger" hull. in this case from a venture, a mining frigate to a procurer, a mining barge. so the progression would be for mining vessels is frigate -> barge. while in pvp ships, from smallest to biggest: frigate -> destroyers -> cruisers -> battlecruisers -> battleship -> dreadnought/carrier -> titan/supercarrier. then a new ship is needed if we just cant break away from this rule. we need a ship that can harvest gas in a reasonable quantity. with a probe launcher and a cloak. like i just said ... i dont want to ruin your life with this guys, i know youve been here everday for years. but i really think the prospect needs an extra high slot. and an increase in ore yield. how about this no new high slot. but an upgrade in ore yield. and the ship comes with a covert ops cloak built into it. so we dont need to give the ship a new high slot.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 248	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:43:23 - [101] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: then a new ship is needed if we just cant break away from this rule. we need a ship that can harvest gas in a reasonable quantity. with a probe launcher and a cloak. like i just said ... i dont want to ruin your life with this guys, i know youve been here everday for years. but i really think the prospect needs an extra high slot. and an increase in ore yield. you are not ruining anybody's day here let alone life, lol, don't be conceited. we are just concerned for the other newbros who might read this thread and get the wrong ideas as well. im not gonna comment on what the prospect's "inadequacies" are, i don't even know how to mine ice and why you require those capabilites in a small frigate. im just here to comment about your wrong views on ship progressions. Just Add Water
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:54:08 - [102] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: then a new ship is needed if we just cant break away from this rule. we need a ship that can harvest gas in a reasonable quantity. with a probe launcher and a cloak. like i just said ... i dont want to ruin your life with this guys, i know youve been here everday for years. but i really think the prospect needs an extra high slot. and an increase in ore yield. you are not ruining anybody's day here let alone life, lol, don't be conceited. we are just concerned for the other newbros who might read this thread and get the wrong ideas as well. im not gonna comment on what the prospect's "inadequacies" are, i don't even know how to mine ice and why you require those capabilites in a small frigate. im just here to comment about your wrong views on ship progressions. are we cool? can i a get sick new venture now plox? can i have your wish?
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7450	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:56:17 - [103] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. no rule is needed, only common sense, and this is common knowledge so you really can't argue about this. you can even see it in ISIS in-game, tech 2s are specializations and the closest that can be considered an upgrade is the next "bigger" hull. in this case from a venture, a mining frigate to a procurer, a mining barge. so the progression would be for mining vessels is frigate -> barge. while in pvp ships, from smallest to biggest: frigate -> destroyers -> cruisers -> battlecruisers -> battleship -> dreadnought/carrier -> titan/supercarrier. then a new ship is needed if we just cant break away from this rule. we need a ship that can harvest gas in a reasonable quantity. with a probe launcher and a cloak. like i just said ... i dont want to ruin your life with this guys, i know youve been here everday for years. but i really think the prospect needs an extra high slot. and an increase in ore yield. how about this no new high slot. but an upgrade in ore yield. and the ship comes with a covert ops cloak built into it. so we dont need to give the ship a new high slot. Why? Justify this need in the game, and how it improves the game without negating the risk inherent in the tasks the Prospect was designed and specialised for. You can't just say, "we need x", you need to qualify it: "we need x because..." If it's just because you think it's needed, then that's not good enough. You don't need a probe launcher on a prospect, because if you can fly a prospect, you can probably fly a covops or its t1 counterpart. Yes, reshipping is a thing you have to do, ESPECIALLY when you're in a ship specialised for gas mining and you want to probe down a wormhole or the gas site itself. That requires reshipping, just like being in a Taranis, and encountering a wartarget in an Enyo, probably requires reshipping. There is no such thing as a ship that can do everything, and there never should be. You need to clue yourself into an understanding of this, or justify why you think a new ship or a new high slot is required. Because so far, you've done neither. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:03:06 - [104] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. no rule is needed, only common sense, and this is common knowledge so you really can't argue about this. you can even see it in ISIS in-game, tech 2s are specializations and the closest that can be considered an upgrade is the next "bigger" hull. in this case from a venture, a mining frigate to a procurer, a mining barge. so the progression would be for mining vessels is frigate -> barge. while in pvp ships, from smallest to biggest: frigate -> destroyers -> cruisers -> battlecruisers -> battleship -> dreadnought/carrier -> titan/supercarrier. then a new ship is needed if we just cant break away from this rule. we need a ship that can harvest gas in a reasonable quantity. with a probe launcher and a cloak. like i just said ... i dont want to ruin your life with this guys, i know youve been here everday for years. but i really think the prospect needs an extra high slot. and an increase in ore yield. how about this no new high slot. but an upgrade in ore yield. and the ship comes with a covert ops cloak built into it. so we dont need to give the ship a new high slot. Why? Justify this need in the game, and how it improves the game without negating the risk inherent in the tasks the Prospect was designed and specialised for. You can't just say, "we need x", you need to qualify it: "we need x because..." If it's just because you think it's needed, then that's not good enough. You don't need a probe launcher on a prospect, because if you can fly a prospect, you can probably fly a covops or its t1 counterpart. Yes, reshipping is a thing you have to do, ESPECIALLY when you're in a ship specialised for gas mining and you want to probe down a wormhole or the gas site itself. That requires reshipping, just like being in a Taranis, and encountering a wartarget in an Enyo, probably requires reshipping. There is no such thing as a ship that can do everything, and there never should be. You need to clue yourself into an understanding of this, or justify why you think a new ship or a new high slot is required. Because so far, you've done neither. I mean i just legit can't see why this is bugging you guys. it's not a big deal. it seems reasonable to me. The ship isn't fulfilling it's purpose well. When you're out and about in your pvp ship. and some bigger ship you cant handle comes along. well then ya you're gonna have to re fit or gtfo. if a smaller ships comes along that you can handle then youre good to go. (sorry i am a newb, lets see if you take too much liberty with this one) with the prospect youre refitting as a natural part of its basic casual purpose. everytime you go out to use it. there's no beef about it. its silly. not to mention like forget going into dangerous space to get rare ore. because mining veld ina barge is 3-4x more profitable then even bothering to venture out into space to look for this stuff. forget mining veld in this thing, it takes 5 days to get into a barge. now im aware that there are trade offs but thats just way too high. thats unreasonable it needs a buff in yield. not to mention it needs to cloak. im not asking that this thing mines ice, and transfer minerals and planetary commodities. i just want a high slot and a better ore yield. like...
Asinae Antaelis 4	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:31:30 - [105] - Quote I do agree that if you have to refit to use a ship in its primary role then there is a design problem ... Either - transform a turret into a high utility while doubling the efficiency of the remaining turret; - or delete the covops trait and transform it into a scanning trait ; - or delete the prospect and give a gaz bonus to the endurance...
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7455	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:47:35 - [106] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: how are you struggling to get your mind outta the box bro. this tech ii isnt gonna be a speciialization. it isnt a rule or something. no rule is needed, only common sense, and this is common knowledge so you really can't argue about this. you can even see it in ISIS in-game, tech 2s are specializations and the closest that can be considered an upgrade is the next "bigger" hull. in this case from a venture, a mining frigate to a procurer, a mining barge. so the progression would be for mining vessels is frigate -> barge. while in pvp ships, from smallest to biggest: frigate -> destroyers -> cruisers -> battlecruisers -> battleship -> dreadnought/carrier -> titan/supercarrier. then a new ship is needed if we just cant break away from this rule. we need a ship that can harvest gas in a reasonable quantity. with a probe launcher and a cloak. like i just said ... i dont want to ruin your life with this guys, i know youve been here everday for years. but i really think the prospect needs an extra high slot. and an increase in ore yield. how about this no new high slot. but an upgrade in ore yield. and the ship comes with a covert ops cloak built into it. so we dont need to give the ship a new high slot. Why? Justify this need in the game, and how it improves the game without negating the risk inherent in the tasks the Prospect was designed and specialised for. You can't just say, "we need x", you need to qualify it: "we need x because..." If it's just because you think it's needed, then that's not good enough. You don't need a probe launcher on a prospect, because if you can fly a prospect, you can probably fly a covops or its t1 counterpart. Yes, reshipping is a thing you have to do, ESPECIALLY when you're in a ship specialised for gas mining and you want to probe down a wormhole or the gas site itself. That requires reshipping, just like being in a Taranis, and encountering a wartarget in an Enyo, probably requires reshipping. There is no such thing as a ship that can do everything, and there never should be. You need to clue yourself into an understanding of this, or justify why you think a new ship or a new high slot is required. Because so far, you've done neither. I mean i just legit can't see why this is bugging you guys. it's not a big deal. it seems reasonable to me. The ship isn't fulfilling it's purpose well. But it is, it fulfills its specialisation just fine. If you're using it to probe, then you're using it for something it's not specialised for. That's on you, not the ship, and entirely your own problem, not the ship's problem, that you find refitting it too inconvenient for you. Again, there is no such thing as a ship that does everything, especially t2s, which are designed to be very good at ONE thing, and **** poor at everything else. I don't go mining in an Enyo or a Helios, I don't know why you'd do your probing in a Prospect. That's entirely on you. You suggestion that the game needs a new ship or the prospect needs to be 'better' doesn't bug me. Your arrogance does. Your assumption that you know enough about the game and the overarching effects such changes would have on the game to think this is a good idea, and to be confused about why people more experienced than you are telling you it's not. You keep saying 'it needs this, it needs that', but again, you aren't explaining why. I asked you to justify the changes, not to repeat them, and you have again failed to do so. WHY DOES THIS SHIP need the changes you're suggesting? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7455	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:48:56 - [107] - Quote Asinae Antaelis wrote: I do agree that if you have to refit to use a ship in its primary role then there is a design problem ... Either - transform a turret into a high utility while doubling the efficiency of the remaining turret; - or change the covops trait into a scanning trait ; - or delete the prospect and give a gaz bonus to the endurance... Its primary role is mining. There is no refitting needed to go mining. If you're doing ore and gas mining, have two ships, one for each. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:59:46 - [108] - Quote You suggestion that the game needs a new ship or the prospect needs to be 'better' doesn't bug me. Your arrogance does. Your assumption that you know enough about the game and the overarching effects such changes would have on the game to think this is a good idea, and to be confused about why people more experienced than you are telling you it's not. You keep saying 'it needs this, it needs that', but again, you aren't explaining why. I asked you to justify the changes, not to repeat them, and you have again failed to do so. [i]WHY DOES THIS SHIP need the changes you're suggesting its got pretty good sensor strength i think ccp is telling you to scan with it.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:08:48 - [109] - Quote i do want to point out that i know what everyones saying here. but im just trying to make minimum wage here in eve. sacrificing a turret you cut my profits literally in half.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:25:32 - [110] - Quote i do want to point out that i know what everyone's saying here. but im just trying to make minimum wage here in eve. sacrificing a turret you cut my profits literally in half. Asinae Antaelis wrote: I do agree that if you have to refit to use a ship in its primary role then there is a design problem ... Either - transform a turret into a high utility while doubling the efficiency of the remaining turret; - or change the covops trait into a scanning trait ; - or delete the prospect and give a gaz bonus to the endurance... agreed
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26793	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:46:16 - [111] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: its got pretty good sensor strength i think ccp is telling you to scan with it. The Prospect has pathetic sensor strength for a T2 ship. This probably comes naturally from the Venture having one of the worst sensor strengths in the entire game. Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Leonerd Dice KCT Joint Venture 2	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:11:52 - [112] - Quote Tippia wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: its got pretty good sensor strength i think ccp is telling you to scan with it. The Prospect has pathetic sensor strength for a T2 ship. This probably comes naturally from the Venture having one of the worst sensor strengths in the entire game. Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). youre right it was a mistake for me to look at the attributes i dont care about yet. ill stick with my first argument. and thats that you need to scan for anomalies and gas sites obviously to be able to gas mine. so theres where ccp wants you to fit a scanner onto it.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7465	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:15:10 - [113] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: You suggestion that the game needs a new ship or the prospect needs to be 'better' doesn't bug me. Your arrogance does. Your assumption that you know enough about the game and the overarching effects such changes would have on the game to think this is a good idea, and to be confused about why people more experienced than you are telling you it's not. You keep saying 'it needs this, it needs that', but again, you aren't explaining why. I asked you to justify the changes, not to repeat them, and you have again failed to do so. [i]WHY DOES THIS SHIP need the changes you're suggesting its got pretty good sensor strength i think ccp is telling you to scan with it. Sensor strength is related to locking speed, not probing ability. Dude, this assumption you just made demonstrates your lack of understanding of the mechanics of EVE Online. You cannot expect us to take your suggestions for changes seriously if you cannot even demonstrate a basic understanding of mechanics. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7465	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:18:47 - [114] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Tippia wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: its got pretty good sensor strength i think ccp is telling you to scan with it. The Prospect has pathetic sensor strength for a T2 ship. This probably comes naturally from the Venture having one of the worst sensor strengths in the entire game. Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). youre right it was a mistake for me to look at the attributes i dont care about yet. ill stick with my first argument. and thats that you need to scan for anomalies and gas sites obviously to be able to gas mine. so theres where ccp wants you to fit a scanner onto it. You need to scan for DED sites too. While you can put a probe launcher on a combat ship, it gimps its combat ability, so you're better off doing the probing with a covops and reshipping to a dedicated combat ship. This is a non-argument, because the means to reship to a vessel specialised for probing are available to you. There is nothing on the Prospect, nothing about it, that suggests CCP intended it for probe launchers. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26794	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:19:27 - [115] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: youre right it was a mistake for me to look at the attributes i dont care about yet. ill stick with my first argument. and thats that you need to scan for anomalies and gas sites obviously to be able to gas mine. so theres where ccp wants you to fit a scanner onto it. You need a probe launcher to find any of the exploration content, to say nothing of w-space. And yet, the vast majority of the exploration content is designed for ships that are not intended to be scan ships. Instead, they expect you to use a scan ship to find a site, and then warp there in a suitable ship, or just give up on some of your precious fitting space to do both. Or, in a pinch, you can bring some scanning equipment along in your mobile depotGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7465	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:21:58 - [116] - Quote Tippia wrote: Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26794	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:23:59 - [117] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. Did they change that? It used to be that your signal strength was Signature Radius / Sensor Strength, later capped to remove the unprobable T3s. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1635	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:23:59 - [118] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Tippia wrote: Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. No, Tippia's right. So are you about the sig, but sensor strength also plays a role. The old unscannable Tengus were basically built by loading up on ECCM. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7466	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:29:20 - [119] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Tippia wrote: Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. No, Tippia's right. So are you about the sig, but sensor strength also plays a role. The old unscannable Tengus were basically built by loading up on ECCM. I don't understand, explain to me exactly how sensor strength plays a role in being scannable, or link me to something that does please. I've been doing some stuff wrong if this is the case. EDIT: never mind, I found this. "Target size is calculated as sig radius / sensor strength. The smaller your ship's target size, the harder it is for people to probe you down." I always thought it was just sig radius. Oh well, I stand corrected. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1636	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:34:31 - [120] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Tippia wrote: Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. No, Tippia's right. So are you about the sig, but sensor strength also plays a role. The old unscannable Tengus were basically built by loading up on ECCM. I don't understand, explain to me exactly how sensor strength plays a role in being scannable, or link me to something that does please. I've been doing some stuff wrong if this is the case. The scan probe signature size of a ship is something like its Sig/Sensor/100. I've never been a big OGB user so I'm hardly an expert, I just know that jacking up the sensor strength used to be able to make a T3 literally unscannable. They capped that and the best you can do now is getting them hard enough to require max skills and a virtue set, I believe. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1468	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:55:43 - [121] - Quote The vast majority of people using these ships (WH dwellers) would never scan with them, even if they did have another high slot. It's much more efficient to use a bonused ship to scan out your chain quickly, bookmark all the relevant sites, and return in your mining ship. The only time you really "need" an extra high is when daytripping, because it's annoying to drag two ships around while you are looking for wormholes. But you can get around this with a mobile depot, or even just swapping mods in a station (which you should have pretty easy access to when daytripping). In fact, carrying a mobile depot and probe launcher is just good practice in WH space for ANY ship that can't fit a launcher, on the off chance that your hole closes and you get stuck. Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. Not great. Sleepers will just volley through reps so you ought to fit buffer instead. Nanos would be better than overdrives because they improve your align time as well as your speed - the best defense is not getting caught in the first place. And if you must get caught it would help to have warp stabs (the penalties don't matter as your optimal is only 1.5km with gas harvesters anyway). Something like this: [Prospect, WH Miner] Warp Core Stabilizer I Warp Core Stabilizer I Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 5MN Microwarpdrive II Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 470	Posted - 2016.01.20 16:03:46 - [122] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Sleepers will just volley through reps so you ought to fit buffer instead. Nanos would be better than overdrives because they improve your align time as well as your speed - the best defense is not getting caught in the first place. And if you must get caught it would help to have warp stabs (the penalties don't matter as your optimal is only 1.5km with gas harvesters anyway) err..... i'll just leave this here: Sig Tank! I 100% agree that few WH dwellers would probe in a prospect. in general, you use a proper CovOps, scan and bookmark ALL THE THINGS! then return in suitable ships for each site. That said, my Ventures pack a probe scanner in the utility high, so what would I know...... Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Cidanel Afuran Static-Noise Upholders 575	Posted - 2016.01.20 16:53:58 - [123] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: You shoulda kept reading we discussed that. It's annoying. And the prospect isnt a proper upgrade. and the yield is way outta whack. Cause I mean it's a Gas Miner not a Cyno Lighter. So everytime you go to mine some gas youre switching that thing in and out in and out. With every process with every cycle. Yes it is. I've made the majority of my ISK gas mining for a while now. The most efficient way (assuming you are starting in HS) is to scan down five or six holes in a chain, bookmark all the sites, then come back and harvest all the gas. Assuming you don't want to kill the sleepers, having the expanded ore hold means you can huff a lot of gas before they show up. Now let's assume you want to scan with your prospect. No big deal. The cargo hold was expanded from that of a venture for a reason. Carry a depot and refit from a probe launcher to gas harvester ONCE, after you have scanned every site in those five or six connected wormholes. The needed use of a mobile depot is by design, because a covert ops frigate that could scan/fit a cyno/etc without the risk of being caught sitting on a depot is a bit too powerful. Thinking about time, say it takes you 3-4 minutes to scan down each WH, so you spend 20-30 minutes scanning five WHs, you end up with a dozen gas sites, that's a few hours of non-stop gas mining, even assuming you don't kill the sleepers. And again, you only need to wait the minute for the depot to online once in that three and a half hour gas mining expedition. Working as intended. Remiel Pollard wrote: I just threw this together in eft [Prospect, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Still room to upgrade that micro to an enduring or a t2, even with dual medium asb, enough to tank surprise sleepers, with a velocity of 3.8km/s, giving you a good chance to burn out of range of other surprise attackers, and of course, the covops cloak and a warp speed of 8.4. I don't even mine, or do wh, and was just trying to think of what might provide the best chance for survival for one gas mining in wh. I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. The fact that I can fit dual MASB on a small ship without gimping AND have the MWD is pretty incredible though, and yield is 160 with all lvl 5 skills. Definitely fits the bill of a specialised gas mining ship in my book. I would put 2 stabs and 2 nanofibers in the lows, swap a shield booster for an afterburner, and put polycarbon engine housings in the rigs. You really don't need a tank, if you get caught, you're basically dead if you can't warp out right away. Sleepers always spawn at least 60kish away from the clouds, so assuming you are paying attention, you should never be surprised by sleepers. Warp to the clouds cloaked, if there aren't any there, start mining and get out when they show up. Duel prop will save your life for the rare time you get scrammed by someone who decloaked close to you. In my close to a year of gas mining in WHs, I have (knock on wood) never lost a prospect. It is a specialized ship, but it does its job very well ATM.
Asinae Antaelis 4	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:49:05 - [124] - Quote Cidanel Afuran wrote: The needed use of a mobile depot is by design, because a covert ops frigate that could scan/mine/fit a cyno/etc without the risk of being caught sitting on a depot is a bit too powerful. Covops frig can cloak, scan site AND hack data/relic without refitting... but the prospect must refit for gaz mining! Why? and the time needed to empty the gaz site is way more bigger than the one required to empty a data/relic site...
Cidanel Afuran Static-Noise Upholders 575	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:56:36 - [125] - Quote Asinae Antaelis wrote: Covops frig can cloak, scan site AND hack data/relic without refitting... but the prospect must refit for gaz mining! Why? and the time needed to empty the gaz site is way more bigger than the one required to empty a data/relic site... This is 100% my opinion, but gas harvesting is significantly more profitable than exploration, so it needs that slight nerf.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26796	Posted - 2016.01.20 18:05:53 - [126] - Quote Asinae Antaelis wrote: Covops frig can cloak, scan site AND hack data/relic without refitting. GÇªbecause their purpose is to be cloaky exploration ships. Note how, while it can do hacking sites, it is useless for mining and combat sites. Quote: but the prospect must refit for gaz mining! Why? Well, for one, it's because you have to start cod4.exe to find Gaz. For another, it's because it's not an exploration ship GÇö it's a gas miner. If you want to use it for an unrelated purpose like, say, exploration, you're going to have to refit it. Or better yet, just use ship that's better fit for purpose altogether. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Cristl 285	Posted - 2016.01.20 19:05:00 - [127] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Tippia wrote: Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. Remiel, you come up in a lot of threads, advocating knowing the game before posting, while simultaneously spouting ignorant nonsense. Just this week you've said that HIC tanks are vastly inferior to HAC tanks, and now that sensor strength plays no role in how easy it is to scan you. Both are embarrassing. Just leave a thread alone if it isn't your strong point. As to the super whiny OP and his all-cap tirades: he may have a point. Does using a depot to constantly swap out gas-huffers and probe launchers add to gameplay, or just reduce quality of life? I don't know, I've not flown a Prospect, but it seems a valid question. What is added by forcing people to scan the sites, then safe up, swap probes for a huffer, and go back? Is the 60 second deploy time enough to get any prospectors in the act, or does it just consume time. Can someone with actual experience answer, please?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26796	Posted - 2016.01.20 19:16:31 - [128] - Quote Cristl wrote: What is added by forcing people to scan the sites, then safe up, swap probes for a huffer, and go back? It provides value to both scan ships and to the mobile depot, and maintains strict role separation to the Prospect itself. For something as profitable as gas mining, it ensures that it's not trivially done in single ship, but rather requires a broader spectrum (possibly even fostering some collaboration in the process). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1470	Posted - 2016.01.20 19:27:40 - [129] - Quote Mephiztopheleze wrote: err..... i'll just leave this here: Sig Tank! Interesting. The site in the video is an instrumental core reservoir and only has battleships so I imagine it's the only site where that would work. It's also by far the most lucrative site though...not a bad idea. Might be able to accomplish the same thing with purgers. Either way you wouldn't use ASB. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1854	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:19:30 - [130] - Quote I vote for a covops Rorqual.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7474	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:43:15 - [131] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: The vast majority of people using these ships (WH dwellers) would never scan with them, even if they did have another high slot. It's much more efficient to use a bonused ship to scan out your chain quickly, bookmark all the relevant sites, and return in your mining ship. The only time you really "need" an extra high is when daytripping, because it's annoying to drag two ships around while you are looking for wormholes. But you can get around this with a mobile depot, or even just swapping mods in a station (which you should have pretty easy access to when daytripping). In fact, carrying a mobile depot and probe launcher is just good practice in WH space for ANY ship that can't fit a launcher, on the off chance that your hole closes and you get stuck. Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment. Not great. Sleepers will just volley through reps so you ought to fit buffer instead. Nanos would be better than overdrives because they improve your align time as well as your speed - the best defense is not getting caught in the first place. And if you must get caught it would help to have warp stabs (the penalties don't matter as your optimal is only 1.5km with gas harvesters anyway). Something like this: [Prospect, WH Miner] Warp Core Stabilizer I Warp Core Stabilizer I Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 5MN Microwarpdrive II Gas Cloud Harvester II Gas Cloud Harvester II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I I defer to the wormholer's expertise then. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7474	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:44:07 - [132] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Mephiztopheleze wrote: err..... i'll just leave this here: Sig Tank! Interesting. The site in the video is an instrumental core reservoir and only has battleships so I imagine it's the only site where that would work. It's also by far the most lucrative site though...not a bad idea. Might be able to accomplish the same thing with purgers. Either way you wouldn't use ASB. Admit it though, the fact you can fit two MASBs without gimping is pretty impressive GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7474	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:48:59 - [133] - Quote Cristl wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Tippia wrote: Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned). Gotta pull you up on that - that's not sensor strength, that's sig radius. The smaller your sig, the harder you are to scan. Sensor strength doesn't contribute to how easily you can be scanned. Remiel, you come up in a lot of threads, advocating knowing the game before posting, while simultaneously spouting ignorant nonsense. Just this week you've said that HIC tanks are vastly inferior to HAC tanks, and now that sensor strength plays no role in how easy it is to scan you. Both are embarrassing. Just leave a thread alone if it isn't your strong point. And when I've been wrong and corrected, I've deferred to that correction, and to people who know more than me, until I've had a chance to check the facts out myself. I don't advocate 'knowing the game before posting', I advocate learning. If someone doesn't know the game before posting, and someone offers them a correction, I advocate them learning from it. Why is this so hard to understand? There's nothing wrong with being wrong, there is something wrong with being unable to accept you are wrong when demonstrated to be so and learning nothing from the experience. So thanks, but I'll continue to post based on what I know about the game. And when I'm wrong, people will call me out on it, and I'll learn something as a result, making me better and even more knowledgeable in the process. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26801	Posted - 2016.01.21 00:33:40 - [134] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: I vote for a covops Rorqual. Now this is something I think we can all get on-board with. The poor thing needs something, desperately, and while I'm sure it's at the top of everyone's wish list, I just don't see CCP giving it the asteroid-doomsday it deserves. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7480	Posted - 2016.01.21 00:58:13 - [135] - Quote Tippia wrote: ....asteroid-doomsday... Game already has that. His name is Chribba. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 472	Posted - 2016.01.21 00:59:40 - [136] - Quote Tippia wrote: Hasikan Miallok wrote: I vote for a covops Rorqual. Now this is something I think we can all get on-board with. The poor thing needs something, desperately, and while I'm sure it's at the top of everyone's wish list, I just don't see CCP giving it the asteroid-doomsday it deserves. +1 CovOps Rorqual! With Capital Gas Harvesters! With some kind of Mass Reduction module so we can squeeze it through wormholes easier. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Leonerd Dice EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.01.21 03:25:26 - [137] - Quote Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Even if the Prospect had a high slot where you could put both a probe launcher and a covert ops cloak. People in a wormhole would still use a dedicated scanning ship to map out anomalies. So that's irrelevant.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26803	Posted - 2016.01.21 03:31:10 - [138] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Then there's no problem, now is there? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1663	Posted - 2016.01.21 03:33:27 - [139] - Quote Tippia wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Then there's no problem, now is there? I don't understand, I thought high sec players were supposed to enjoy 100% of the benefits of low/null/WH players with none of the nasty downsides? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Leonerd Dice EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:29:06 - [140] - Quote Tippia wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Then there's no problem, now is there? Yeah there is a problem. Not all of us live in a wormhole.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1664	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:46:46 - [141] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Tippia wrote: Leonerd Dice wrote: Well yeah, if you're already in the wormhole you want to scan why not hop into a ship thats better at scanning first. But when you're in high sec this becomes an even bigger waste of time then using a mobile depot. Then there's no problem, now is there? Yeah there is a problem. Not all of us live in a wormhole. This is definitely a problem with the ship, and not a problem with the filthy casual who wants to daytrip for WH gas. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 473	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:58:10 - [142] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Yeah there is a problem. Not all of us live in a wormhole. Do you realise that those of us who live in wormholes tend to do most of our ratting or gas huffing next door in our 'static'? Due to the nature of how sites in wormholes spawn, a 'typical' wormhole dunking session goes something like this: 1: Notice that your static has closed, hopefully with you on the 'home' side. Usually, this is seen first in the Probe Scanner window or it's the result of deliberate 'rage rolling'. 1a: Mash D-Scan. 2: Get a scanning ship, check against Corp Bookmarks which sites are already known, scan down all new sites and Corp BM them. 2a: Mash D-Scan. 3: Enter your J-Space static, check for number of anomalies and signatures. Then check for active POS towers and any ships in space. 3a: Mash D-Scan. 4: SCAN ALL THE THINGS! In some holes, this could mean 30+ signatures to scan down, in others it's only a couple. Make Bookmarks of everything. Check any further WH connections and where they lead to. If you're in a Swiss Cheese hole with a dozen connecting wormholes, this increases the risk your fleet will get dunked. 4a: Mash D-Scan. 5: Decide if this connection is 'worth' running. If so, continue this list. If there's too much risk (half a dozen active towers, a dozen battleships on scan, etc, etc), get your Higgs Rigged battleships out again and prepare to roll the hole, return to 1 above. 5a: Mash D-Scan. 6: Get your corpmates/alts together and decide what order to do the sites in the static. Usually I warp to every Gas site I want to run at the start to spawn the sleepers, knock over all the combat sites then return to kill Gas sleepers. Once that's all done, looted and salvaged, it's into the Ventures. 6a: Mash D-Scan. 7: Once the static is depleted of sites to run, return to the home hole to drop off loot, salvage & gas. The loot buyer calculates and makes all payouts. We get the Higgs Rigged Battleships out, rinse and repeat and pray you got the math right and didn't get stuck on the wrong side of a collapsed hole (which WILL happen occasionally, regardless how careful you are). 7a: Mash D-Scan. On a 'good' night, me and some corpmates might roll our J-Space static five or more times. So, if you think all I have to do is: log in, scan a site, make ISK, then you'd be wrong. For every hour of actual 'isk printing', there's 15-20 minutes of general faffing around. edit: just quietly, it's not that difficult or expensive to set yourself up in a wormhole with a few friends. finding a suitable hole to move into is the biggest hurdle. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Leonerd Dice EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.01.21 06:08:27 - [143] - Quote Okay my turn. Answer me this. What's so bad about giving the Prospect an extra high slot? And you're answer has to be logical. not tech ii non sense.
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 473	Posted - 2016.01.21 06:14:34 - [144] - Quote I never said it was a 'bad idea', just that it was unlikely to ever happen and, quite simply, the lack of said fourth highslot in no way diminishes the Prospect's performance doing what it's designed to do. You carry on like the Prospect is unforgivably broken, when it's clearly nothing of the sort. It's a capable vessel that can safely get into and out of hostile space with far more ease than any other mining platform. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Cidanel Afuran Static-Noise Upholders 577	Posted - 2016.01.21 16:43:48 - [145] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Yeah there is a problem. Not all of us live in a wormhole. How is that a problem? Why should you get all of the benefits of WH income without the risks of living there? And how is it a problem to find a backwater/empty LS/HS system and scan down a WH chain from there? I did that for a while before permanently moving in.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1806	Posted - 2016.01.21 17:02:59 - [146] - Quote How is this thread 8 pages lon-..........I mean, good job, GD Leonerd Dice wrote: Okay my turn. Answer me this. What's so bad about giving the Prospect an extra high slot? And you're answer has to be logical. not tech ii non sense. Mobile Depots. Live by em, hopefully don't die by em. You might as well be saying it needs extra low slots so it can fit more stabs and mining upgrades (it doesn't), or it needs extra midslots so it can fit more tank to survive belt rats (it doesn't), or it needs a drone bay so that it can put up some kind of a fight (it doesn't). Personally, I'm a huge fan of the mining frigates and use the Prospect the most (although the Endurance is starting to take up equal time). I still undock a Venture for a daytrip every now and then, just for nostalgia
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26809	Posted - 2016.01.21 17:09:59 - [147] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Yeah there is a problem. Not all of us live in a wormhole. If that's the problem, then just go live there GÇö problem solved. Not living in a wormhole means that there's even less of a problem of the kind you're trying to suggest. Quote: Okay my turn. Answer me this. What's so bad about giving the Prospect an extra high slot? Because it doesn't need one. Scanning ships, stations, Orcas, Bowheads, and mobile depots exist for a reason. Your unwillingness to use them does not mean that there is the slightest bit of a problem with the Prospect or that it needs anything more than it has to do its job. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Avaelica Kuershin Paper Cats 231	Posted - 2016.01.21 19:46:44 - [148] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: Okay my turn. Answer me this. What's so bad about giving the Prospect an extra high slot? And you're answer has to be logical. not tech ii non sense. A logical reason was given: It's unbalanced in favour of the Prospect and against those who may hunt you. There's always choices and trade-offs to be made.
Elwha Lynx The Senate and People of Rome Kids With Guns Alliance 8	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:38:54 - [149] - Quote Prospect has been a nice supplemental income day tripping wormholes since it came out. It's cargo can easily hold one of the advanced mobile depots, sister core launcher and set of probes while its ability refit, ninja gas sites, and escape after doing among the highest isk/hour activities for a frigate, make it nearly perfect for its purpose. Leave it alone-- it's one of the best ships in the game.
Elyia Suze Nagala Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 77	Posted - 2016.02.06 11:14:54 - [150] - Quote Elwha Lynx wrote: Prospect has been a nice supplemental income day tripping wormholes since it came out. It's cargo can easily hold one of the advanced mobile depots, sister core launcher and set of probes while its ability refit, ninja gas sites, and escape after doing among the highest isk/hour activities for a frigate, make it nearly perfect for its purpose. Leave it alone-- it's one of the best ships in the game. This ^
CAPTA1N OBVIOUS Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2016.02.06 23:13:46 - [151] - Quote Leonerd Dice wrote: And you're answer has to be logical. not tech ii non sense. Obviously, that's ridiculous coming from you, you big walking logic-free zone. I am on this page - It should be obvious who I am
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 441	Posted - 2016.02.07 17:40:41 - [152] - Quote I have carefully read the OP and thought about it. Everything is wrong.

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