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Khes	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:20:00 - [1] Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only.
Angellyne	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:24:00 - [2] Edited by: Angellyne on 25/01/2007 18:27:29 Edit: meh, was too flamey
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Khes Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is. Simply put, I feel you cannot defend one without defending the other (IOW, metagaming is either acceptable or it isn't) and since you cannot stop the alt scout accounts, I have no problem with people logging off to save the pod. I do think they should stick around long enough to try to flee or fight though. It's more a case of accepting all forms of metagaming since one form is apparently widely accepted. Especially since I don't go into lowsec myself, I'm speaking more in the theoretical sense on how I see the argument. Then I see people whininjg about nanos, and I stabs, and I begin to believe any tactic, legit or meta, that involves evasion, is going to get a major dose of whine. Hope I'm as clear as mud. ------ Sub ends Feb 13. No you can't have my stuff, why should I reward bullies and phishers?
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:41:00 - [4] Quote: Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. 1) No 2) No 3) No I don't favor consensual PvP at all, however just because someone wants to kill me does not mean I have to let them. When I do not want to PvP, I will use everything at my disposal to avoid it, and that includes CTRL-Q as long as it is a legitimate tactic (not exploit).
Bawldeux IV Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Khes Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. there is no means to tell the difference between intentional and unintentional logoff (disconnects). I don't like it, but I do understand that without a means to allow the game to save a ship due to the pilot losing his connection, then logoffski will remain a part of the game. At all times?? yes, and guess what, even without the logoffski manuver, there is a way, always...
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Fubear Quote: Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. 1) No 2) No 3) No I don't favor consensual PvP at all, however just because someone wants to kill me does not mean I have to let them. When I do not want to PvP, I will use everything at my disposal to avoid it, and that includes CTRL-Q as long as it is a legitimate tactic (not exploit). I suggest you get adapting your gameplay..DEV team has allready stated that it is a game destroying aspect and that they will solve the problem I once had a sig...it deleted
Sir Carealot Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Fubear Quote: Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. 1) No 2) No 3) No I don't favor consensual PvP at all, however just because someone wants to kill me does not mean I have to let them. When I do not want to PvP, I will use everything at my disposal to avoid it, and that includes CTRL-Q as long as it is a legitimate tactic (not exploit). The act of saying something is not an exploit does not make it so
Hex Stiletto Gallente Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:02:00 - [8] I think logging off should be allowed if you jump into a gate camp if any the following conditions are met: 1. The gate campers are very immature and will go into a fizzy tizz cause they didn't get a kill 2. The campers start whiney threads on the eve-o forums 3. It not me who loses the kill
Sir Carealot Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:02:00 - [9] Edited by: Sir Carealot on 25/01/2007 18:59:40 Originally by: Lyn30101 Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? FAIR: They trained a skill which is part of the game. Quote: Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is. LOL-FALSE Quote: Simply put, I feel you cannot defend one without defending the other (IOW, metagaming is either acceptable or it isn't) and since you cannot stop the alt scout accounts, I have no problem with people logging off to save the pod. I do think they should stick around long enough to try to flee or fight though. If they stick around that long--long enough to get attacked--the aggro timer of 15 minutes starts Quote: It's more a case of accepting all forms of metagaming since one form is apparently widely accepted. Especially since I don't go into lowsec myself, I'm speaking more in the theoretical sense on how I see the argument. Then I see people whininjg about nanos, and I stabs, and I begin to believe any tactic, legit or meta, that involves evasion, is going to get a major dose of whine. Hope I'm as clear as mud. Quite! Muddiest post I've seen all minute.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:04:00 - [10] hey everyone i have great idea !!! lets suport log off !!! lets make eve even more retarted !!
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:06:00 - [11] Needs more alt Retired [ISSN] [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
Sir Carealot Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:06:00 - [12] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter hey everyone i have great idea !!! lets suport log off !!! lets make eve even more retarted !! /sign! YOU HAVE MY SUPPORT!
Khevynn	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:12:00 - [13] If your going to present an agrument quit using fallacious arguments. CCP has not called CRTL-Q an exploit. Personally I think that they have not called it an exploit because they realize they need to balance gate camps still. Personally I don't see the "fun" in sitting at a gate for hours shooting fish in a barrel. But those are my personal feelings.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:16:00 - [14] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 25/01/2007 19:13:55 Originally by: Khevynn If your going to present an agrument quit using fallacious arguments. CCP has not called CRTL-Q an exploit. Personally I think that they have not called it an exploit because they realize they need to balance gate camps still. Personally I don't see the "fun" in sitting at a gate for hours shooting fish in a barrel. But those are my personal feelings. we if u just use your brains u culd: 1) use scout and awoid gate camps 2) kill them with your corp mates 3) use setups that can awoid gate camps 4) use cap ships to houl yourc crap etc ..
Exlegion Legion's Knight	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:21:00 - [15] Edited by: Exlegion on 25/01/2007 19:19:03 Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 25/01/2007 19:13:55 Originally by: Khevynn If your going to present an agrument quit using fallacious arguments. CCP has not called CRTL-Q an exploit. Personally I think that they have not called it an exploit because they realize they need to balance gate camps still. Personally I don't see the "fun" in sitting at a gate for hours shooting fish in a barrel. But those are my personal feelings. we if u just use your brains u culd: 1) use scout and awoid gate camps 2) kill them with your corp mates 3) use setups that can awoid gate camps 4) use cap ships to houl yourc crap etc .. Just FYI, using scouts/alts IS metagaming as well.
Gaia's Wrath	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:26:00 - [16] Everybody do as you want. Crtl + Q go ahead I will still kill you. For those of you who whine about ctrl + Q'ers that just goes to show your not very good PvPer's. ADAPT OVERCOME AND CONQUER Superior Tactics FTW Myself and my corp mates have had no problem adapting our tactics to pod the Ctrl + Q'ers.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 25/01/2007 19:19:03 Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 25/01/2007 19:13:55 Originally by: Khevynn If your going to present an agrument quit using fallacious arguments. CCP has not called CRTL-Q an exploit. Personally I think that they have not called it an exploit because they realize they need to balance gate camps still. Personally I don't see the "fun" in sitting at a gate for hours shooting fish in a barrel. But those are my personal feelings. we if u just use your brains u culd: 1) use scout and awoid gate camps 2) kill them with your corp mates 3) use setups that can awoid gate camps 4) use cap ships to houl yourc crap etc .. Just FYI, using scouts/alts IS metagaming as well. so better just whine that cpp wuld nefr gate camps cos someone things that he is to "good" to use game tactics to awoid them ?
Exlegion Legion's Knight	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:34:00 - [18] Edited by: Exlegion on 25/01/2007 19:34:02 Edited by: Exlegion on 25/01/2007 19:32:36 Quote: so better just whine that cpp wuld nefr gate camps cos someone things that he is to "good" to use game tactics to awoid them ? I'm not complaining about gate camps, nor am I complaining about logging off, although I've never logged off during combat. I think that if one is wrong then so should be the other (in reference to logging off and using alts/scouts).
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Exlegion Quote: so better just whine that cpp wuld nefr gate camps cos someone things that he is to "good" to use game tactics to awoid them ? Before running your mouth get your facts straight. I have NEVER logged off during combat. Where did I say I did? so where did i post that u logged in battle?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Khes Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. /signed Very well put. And as usual no one will hear it. there is no means to tell the difference between intentional and unintentional logoff (disconnects). I don't like it, but I do understand that without a means to allow the game to save a ship due to the pilot losing his connection, then logoffski will remain a part of the game. At all times?? yes, and guess what, even without the logoffski manuver, there is a way, always...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Khevynn If your going to present an agrument quit using fallacious arguments. CCP has not called CRTL-Q an exploit. Personally I think that they have not called it an exploit because they realize they need to balance gate camps still. Personally I don't see the "fun" in sitting at a gate for hours shooting fish in a barrel. But those are my personal feelings. I know we all give our interpreatations to the Dev words, but unless I am mistaken the DEV position is that hitting CTRL-Q when [b]engaged[b] (webbed/warp scrambled/fired upon) is an exploit they stay silent on hitting CTR-Q when jumping in system The second part probably because there is a significative number of events that can cause DC when jumping in system (significative here means something like 1/100 chance or more). If more people would ransom the pod for a reasonable sum probably this will happen less. I have never used ctrl-q to escape a fight, but I can empathyze witht he pople doing it to avoid a podkill.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Lyn30101 Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is How is it metagaming? Alts are part of game mechanics. Ctrl-Q is pointedly avoiding game mechanics. Also, I vote 'metagaming' as third most useless term on the EVE forums, right behind 'ganker' and 'carebear'. Originally by: Lyn30101 Then I see people whininjg about nanos, and I stabs, and I begin to believe any tactic, legit or meta, that involves evasion, is going to get a major dose of whine. Quite. The "problem" (and I use that term loosely) here is that it's effectively impossible to force someone to fight you in EVE. Anyone with a few brain cells who doesn't want to be engaged, won't be. People who can't deal with this and just want pretty explosions will naturally complain. Sooner or later, they'll meet up in a thread with the truly brainless; that is, those who refuse to take even the most basic steps to ensure their own safety. When that happens, look out for the twelve page threads filled with flames. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Logi3 sasha and co Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:05:00 - [23] Heh cant CTRL+Q irl ;)
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:05:00 - [24] Edited by: Kehmor on 25/01/2007 20:02:44 Originally by: Gaia's Wrath Everybody do as you want. Crtl + Q go ahead I will still kill you. For those of you who whine about ctrl + Q'ers that just goes to show your not very good PvPer's. ADAPT OVERCOME AND CONQUER Superior Tactics FTW Myself and my corp mates have had no problem adapting our tactics to pod the Ctrl + Q'ers. I will bet you any amount of isk, I repeat any amount of isk, that i can jump into your camp, log, and you won't kill me. 2 billion? more? name your price. edit - this ofcourse assumes a normal sized camp as with enough battleships and dreads you'll kill anything. Originally by: Khevynn Personally I think that they have not called it an exploit because they realize they need to balance gate camps still. Personally I don't see the "fun" in sitting at a gate for hours shooting fish in a barrel. But those are my personal feelings. In that case you are a tard. The only reason its not called a sploit is because there is no way of telling the difference between logging and crashing.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Khes Do you think it should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game? If you don't like the situation you are in do think that you should ALLWAYS should be able to get out of if you want to? Or perhaps, you should only be able to get killed if YOU think the situation is fare? It seems to me that all log off supporters are allso in favor of consensual PvP only. I do not PvP, I do not like it, I am not good at it... I also stay away from Low Sec... If I were for some reason to jump into a gate camp, I would most likely not log off because I would not think of it... this does not mean I support it or not... just that I would not think of it... To answer your initial question... Yes, I think there should ALLWAYS be a some way to get out of dangerous situations in game... if there is no way to escape a gate camp then the tactic of a gate camp and the items used to set it up are over powered and need to be either nerfed or countered... if I don't know the counter, donÆt have the counter objects fitted does not mean there is no counter, just that I do not know them... If I do not like the situation I find myself in, I should be able to get out of it... as long as I know how to get out of it... nothing in the game should be without a counter object/tactic... As for consensual PvP, As much as I dislike PvP, I consent by logging in... I limit it by staying in High Sec... Personally, I think the Low Sec (not 0.0) gates should get random visits from NPC Navy Patrols that blast gate campers... you have a lower sec rating or have popped someone elseÆs ship in the past x minutes, they blow you up with some overwhelming fire power... but I am guessing the OP would disagree, as they only want the unfair advantage when it is in his/her favor... (No, one does not really imply the other, it's just the reverse of his/her inaccurate conclusion) Noob in training...
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Lyn30101 Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is How is it metagaming? Alts are part of game mechanics. Ctrl-Q is pointedly avoiding game mechanics. Wow. Alts are a part of game mechanics, huh? What skill do I train up to get an extra computer next to me with a spare account?
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:26:00 - [27] Do you think every one should be reqired to pay for a second account and run an alt in front of them every time they jump through a system? If I jump thorugh and there is 3-5 ships I'll attempt to get away or fight through it, if it's 40 guys sitting on the gate then I just exit and come back a few hours later. Having a fight can be fun, getting blown up by 40 while your lagged isn't fun...
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Wyehr Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Lyn30101 Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is How is it metagaming? Alts are part of game mechanics. Ctrl-Q is pointedly avoiding game mechanics. Wow. Alts are a part of game mechanics, huh? What skill do I train up to get an extra computer next to me with a spare account? Exactly. As to the roving Navy patrols... that actually sounds like it could be interesting provided the campers have a shot at taking them down. Got to throw them at least a little bit of a bone there. Hell it might get me to camp in caldy lowsec (I like caldari dogtags ) ------ Sub ends Feb 13. No you can't have my stuff, why should I reward bullies and phishers?
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.25 21:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Lyn30101 Originally by: Wyehr Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Lyn30101 Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is How is it metagaming? Alts are part of game mechanics. Ctrl-Q is pointedly avoiding game mechanics. Wow. Alts are a part of game mechanics, huh? What skill do I train up to get an extra computer next to me with a spare account? Exactly. To the both of you: Look carefully to your left. There's a button labelled 'Create Account'. Having an alt has nothing to do with avoiding game mechanics. Alts have to train. Alts can be podded. Alts can even, I dare say, come on the forums and whine about horrible gankers and cry about how they want to mine veldspar in peace. Alts don't have some magical power to avoid interdictor bubbles. Ctrl-Q is pointedly removing you from game mechanics. You didn't look before you jumped, now you're simply avoiding the penalty. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.01.25 21:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Lyn30101 Originally by: Wyehr Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Lyn30101 Do you think an alt recon cloaked at the other side of a gatecamp waiting for targets is fair? Because that's 'metagaming' too just as much as logoff tactic is How is it metagaming? Alts are part of game mechanics. Ctrl-Q is pointedly avoiding game mechanics. Wow. Alts are a part of game mechanics, huh? What skill do I train up to get an extra computer next to me with a spare account? Exactly. To the both of you: Look carefully to your left. There's a button labelled 'Create Account'. Having an alt has nothing to do with avoiding game mechanics. Alts have to train. Alts can be podded. Alts can even, I dare say, come on the forums and whine about horrible gankers and cry about how they want to mine veldspar in peace. Alts don't have some magical power to avoid interdictor bubbles. Ctrl-Q is pointedly removing you from game mechanics. You didn't look before you jumped, now you're simply avoiding the penalty. Alts need to be trained? LOL Survival 101, created 14 trial account and run it on 2nd screen. 1 jump a head of you. If ( gate camp == true ) { while (crappy alt with no clone fly back to you in shuttle){ log out main... } if (camp == true) { Go watch TV } } Lol you call that not using game mechanics?

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