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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Moloney
Mass Effect Enterprises
187
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Posted - 2016.01.24 14:35:30 -
[91] - Quote
Hi,
I have been playing around with the feature on SISI and noticed that the isk reward is trivial, around 50k wouldn't buy a shuttle in most areas of space.
It takes about 4min to have a decent look at each picture (Still not getting everything correct) but that implies 750k isk per hour and between 3750 and 6500LP. The 6500 LP is completely unrealistic since once you get something wrong you will be spending a damn long time getting your % accuracy back up to anything close to 100
Short story is that I do not feel like I would take part in this aspect of the game further than the current tests that I have run out of interest. The rewards are insufficient compared to too many other things I could be doing. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
80
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Posted - 2016.01.24 15:41:24 -
[92] - Quote
Could be fun to develop an algorithm that does this. Isolate the parameters that makes a protein "normal". |
dhunpael
52
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Posted - 2016.01.24 16:14:20 -
[93] - Quote
Hi,
I like it a lot, but maybe you want to include other factions as well? You can link this to other but simular "mini games"?
This helps in the roleplay game and with a steady market (no collapse due to more lp).
And as always please make this accessible for CREST? These kind of things are awesome if you can do them out of game as well. (Same as PI etc) |
Friendly Corpse
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
23
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Posted - 2016.01.25 08:32:41 -
[94] - Quote
I think it only fair to make a humble request given my time to assist with this awesome project, and the results that will help everyone. As Jane McGonigal states something very similar in her TedTalks video. Link: http://janemcgonigal.com/
Can my earned LP be traded in for a SoE Guardian SKin? I'm sure I'll be pushing my luck to get the "nee naw!!" sound effect. But hey, totes worth a try.
+1 for doing this project.
o7
Expect The WorstGäó
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Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:04:42 -
[95] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Midori Tsu wrote:What are the rewards going to be like? is it a baseline of say 500 lp that increases with the rating? Currently, the amount of LP you gain is in direct correlation with your Accuracy Rating, with 500 SOE LP being the payout for a 100% score on a single sample. So a 1% score will grant you 5 LP. Please be aware however that these values and the overall rewards are not finalised and are subject to change before they appear on TQ. (Based on your feedback and our own observations during public testing of course) Will any skills influence LP payout as certain social skills currently do for missions? |
Anna Tomy
Caille University Art Faculty Haven.
8
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Posted - 2016.01.26 15:20:06 -
[96] - Quote
Ergentii Juhar wrote: In summary, there are certain ethical considerations that make this project completely wrong:
1. Replacing real workers, paid ones, with virtual ones that are not paid for their time (or worse - are paying themselves for it). That's doubly unethical, on both ends of the bargain. 2. This is not for the good of humanity or the progress of science. it is all for a shared profit between medical companies, that MMOScience company, and ccp. Saying the former, is misinformation. And as such, it's unethical, too. 3. Let's not forget, the actual ethics of the medical companies themselves. I think oil companies only can compete with them on this matter. Consider their pricing, their testing procedures (both on animals and humans), their research quality (and what they hide), and all the other stuff. I don't want to help them, in any way. It's only fair because they don't care about helping anyone, either. 4. What's next? Sweeping the streets for plexes? So that municipalities can fire the sweepers and save? I don't think any of this will come to any good.
Don't think I'm an extremist enviromental freak or lobbyist or whatever. I just think that all this 'volunteer' projects are just cost-reducing plans, increasing profits for some companies but reducing the actual gains (and jobs) for the community. If CCP doesn't want to be involved in the politics of the matter, let it abstain from these projects altogether.
While I do share your sentiment towards big pharma corporations (or big corporations in general), I don't see big moral issues in this case:
1.) Human Protein Atlas: "The publication and/or presentation are solely for informational and non-commercial purposes."
I'd rather help an open, public project than see a private owned, commercial company withholding their research.
2.) We don't actually "kill jobs" by doing this. As far as I understand, scientists are only recently working with this massive amount of data. We are talking about 13 Mil images. It's not a "trend to reduce real workers" because in the past nobody was doing this kind of work in this massive dimensions. It's also stated that categorizing those images is nothing a Computer farm can do easily, so we not even "help to cut the costs" on this side.
I, obviously, assume that MMOS and Protein Atlas don't lie about their intentions.
I'm looking forward to this! Having such projects as (optional) minigames instead of the hacking minigame would be cool! |
Raamah
Eschelon Directive
1
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Posted - 2016.01.26 17:31:13 -
[97] - Quote
This will open on one of my screens 100% of the time once it goes live. Almost more exciting than citadels. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3224
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Posted - 2016.01.27 19:17:01 -
[98] - Quote
For the less intellectual of us (me) what, in idiot terms, do I need to do to participate when it is up and running.
I am not interesed in the reward part, just willing to do my bit for science.
This is not a signature.
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MAS0RAKSH
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
1
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Posted - 2016.01.28 03:26:29 -
[99] - Quote
very interested, but 1700 is 10 am for a Californian who loves science and wouldn't mind 2 mil Sp for helping out.
0200 eve time would let US players with day jobs be a part without having to risk their job playing eve at work.
Throw me 2 mil SP for really wanting to be there, but "Chronologically Challenged". |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2501
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Posted - 2016.01.28 20:20:21 -
[100] - Quote
Great work, CCP.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:06:39 -
[101] - Quote
It's quite interesting, but some of the "correct" results don't make sense from either a description or sample image stand point.
For example Baffled edit: More Baffled
Could someone explain how that is the right answer? asymmetrical bloby/tubular compared to the "correct" symmetrical vainy/web.
Is that "correct" in the sense that an above average number of people on sisi clicked on it, so we're being penalised because people are just clicking through carelessly? a bug? naff data in the project? etc.
edit: couple of samples later, I get something almost the same as before "ok, it was this last time..." wrong.... erm
Curiosity killed the Kata...
... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.
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Minnerma
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.01.30 17:48:51 -
[102] - Quote
PD is almost PhD. So it's very interesting to be a part of something useful for all mankind. I've tried a minigame at Sisi, and I have to say that it pretty interesting and hard. GJ, CCP. |
Dusty 3allvalve
Generic Reproductions
9
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Posted - 2016.01.31 04:03:52 -
[103] - Quote
Despite not receiving a single point of the promised 2MM, I liked the project. Now I keep checkin' back to see if the test server is up, that I might see it again. I'll see if I can't find similar somewhere else online until it's here. Thanks to everyone involved. |
Warlord Balrog
303rd X-SOLDIER
1
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Posted - 2016.02.08 15:24:41 -
[104] - Quote
NorthCrossroad wrote:Great idea, have to say!
Not sure, but not a single other MMO did anything like it. While there are plenty ways to participate in similar projects without playing EVE, have to say that it's a great way to get people involved into such projects. Will see how it plays out, but would be great to integrate these tasks to missions or archeology systems.
As a suggestion - add some items to the faction store that will require the science rating and won't be accessible otherwise. Some unique ships skins/archeology equipment/implants would be really nice.
North
And you can't trade or pilot them without the rating! |
Tecka Grethys
Ban Industries Inc. Moist.
5
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Posted - 2016.02.19 15:30:35 -
[105] - Quote
o/
I tried to find the Discovery project app on Sisi but could not find it. Someone in the Help chat told me it was not unabled yet. Do you know when it's supposed to be up ?
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Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2016.02.19 16:23:12 -
[106] - Quote
This is great, I have some midterms and whatnot coming up but I will try to participate. There is one thing I would have liked on the page describing the project, a simple share button for the most used social media sites. |
Michael Lincoln
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.02.22 11:41:53 -
[107] - Quote
Do rules for one classification group affect the others? For example:
If a sample shows signs of cytoplasmic vesicles which, by description can never appear within the nucleus that then means that it can never be any of the nucleus groups, right? I would assume that if that's true then nucleus selections should be ghosted out if you select it.
The fact that I may be unintentionally but consistently wrong made me think of something else: If there are certain players like myself with perhaps a misunderstanding of a fundamental rule like that, then surely we shouldn't be seeing the other player's best guesses. I'd much rather see the selections of the most accurate players (and maybe as a counterpoint, the least accurate players).
I feel like my accuracy should be rigorously tested with almost as many preknown test questions popping up as the real ones so as to constantly reweigh the likelihood or weight of my answers. I can foresee a lot of attempts at cookie clickering this thing and that's generally the way mechanical turkish type jobs weed out that sort of activity.
Coming back again to the other player guesses issue, I find myself fighting herd mentality (even though I might be wrong) but seeing other players' guesses definitely affects your own choices.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if this goes live and our accuracy is checked as often as it is now and accuracy doesn't heavily influence the other player consensus as a factor then cookie clickers could start a horrible follow the leader trend and create absolute garbage data where we all just try to match whatever we think the other players would analyse the image as. It might not even be malicious. |
Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
157
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Posted - 2016.02.28 08:40:08 -
[108] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:We are excited to give you an update about Project Discovery, the real life Human Protein Research project in EVE Online. Project Discovery is waiting for you on the test server Singularity and we invite you to start testing this feature! Please read more about this great initiative in CCP Scarpia's dev blog Project Discovery needs You! and provide plenty of feedback. Real life scientist is more like it. I'm not so much in research without approval by government. However, that doesn't mean that I cannot do study with government approval, like study cases...
For instance, if I start research with approval and it is then waived, I would use it for legit case study.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
168
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Posted - 2016.03.02 01:53:24 -
[109] - Quote
I thought this was some missions users participated in and that was completed for the Injector project or something like that.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Untanas Volmyr
Perkone Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2016.03.08 04:07:27 -
[110] - Quote
As said in the post above, folding at home was something I heard about a few years back. It takes your space cpu cycles and calculates protein folding. For those who may not of known about it but are curious to contribute to it. The website is
https://folding.stanford.edu/
Another website that also uses the same method of spare cpu cycles is with SETI.
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
I'm excited to see this come to a point that it is now part of a game.
Another one I found myself dabbling with is for mapping the human brain.
http://eyewire.org/explore
Lots of things to multitask while you shoot space rocks!
Murphy's Technology Law - If your not thoroughly confused. Then you were not thoroughly informed.
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Nakaara Adahsa
Deep Void Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2016.03.09 12:05:48 -
[111] - Quote
I'm glad to see this feature released finally. I've been pretty unhappy with a lot of the changes your devs have been making to the game lately. This is one of the few good ideas you've had in recent months.
Hopefully some real benefit to science comes out of this. Thanks CCP. |
Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
640
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Posted - 2016.03.09 19:28:03 -
[112] - Quote
Kata Amentis wrote:It's quite interesting, but some of the "correct" results don't make sense from either a description or sample image stand point. For example Bafflededit: More BaffledCould someone explain how that is the right answer? asymmetrical bloby/tubular compared to the "correct" symmetrical vainy/web. Is that "correct" in the sense that an above average number of people on sisi clicked on it, so we're being penalised because people are just clicking through carelessly? a bug? naff data in the project? etc. edit: couple of samples later, I get something almost the same as before "ok, it was this last time..." wrong.... erm
Just to say I've had this a few times - it seems to be displaying the results of samples from previous submissions in that session, thusly counting those as your answers, even though they are not. So far it seems closing it and reopening it after every submission seems to clear it out.
"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
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Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
20
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Posted - 2016.03.09 20:31:12 -
[113] - Quote
I'd like to be able to make the interface bigger, I'm old and blind, thx. |
Robbert Dole
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.03.09 21:28:20 -
[114] - Quote
1.) It needs a skip option because every once in a while you get a picture that is completely beyond you so why punish you for guessing and taint your results by complete guesses?
2.) I like how you get judged on everyone else's failures... "40% of people said its something it 100% completely obviously isn't because it has got alot of green so you're wrong. Here have a punishment /accuracy degredaation while you're at it"
3.) What protections from abuse does it have? What is keeping every kid (lets be honest some legit kids play eve) from going and clicking the first thing their mouse comes to and making the most out of it until their accuracy/rewards are destroyed?
4.) The 'tutorial' really really is not helpful/adequate. It needs to include a brief description of what you're actually looking for and a cells 101 firstly. Secondly it needs to better explain the mechanics, ie. a picture can have multiple correct attributes and a more in depth explanation of how accuracy works. (there is a picture and you correctly identify 3 attributes out of 4... what happens to your accuracy?)
--Edited for typos and expanded upon |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
374
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Posted - 2016.03.10 00:11:28 -
[115] - Quote
Untanas Volmyr wrote:As said in the post above, folding at home was something I heard about a few years back. It takes your space cpu cycles and calculates protein folding. For those who may not of known about it but are curious to contribute to it. The website is https://folding.stanford.edu/ Another website that also uses the same method of spare cpu cycles is with SETI. http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ I'm excited to see this come to a point that it is now part of a game. Another one I found myself dabbling with is for mapping the human brain. http://eyewire.org/explore Lots of things to multitask while you shoot space rocks!
The Folding Home option was on the PS3 when it first was released for sales. Too bad it's long since been removed. If I remember correctly, it allowed use of the console's CPU and other hardware for extra computing space during low use time periods. I just left the console powered up when I went to sleep or out and about so it was available. Can't however remember which project it was assisting with at that time, I've slept since then.
Once TQv3 server quits choking on ProjectDiscovery's usage I'll give it a try.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
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Forrae Deren
Wraith.Wing Get Off My Lawn
2
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Posted - 2016.03.10 03:24:17 -
[116] - Quote
Are there plans to integrate other citizen science projects into this? I think a collaboration with GalaxyZoo would be interesting. Similar concept as the protein identification, just with classifying galaxies. Would fit into Eve quite nice too...
That said, the system in now is pretty interesting. Definitely something to kill some time with and feel like you're doing something useful. I've always found these sorts of things quite entertaining. There are a few things I would like a bit better clarified, such as how accuracy affects rewards and how it can be adjusted. Also, some of the classifications can be a little tricky, but that could just be something that experience will work out.
As a side note, it's kind of funny actually seeing an experience bar in Eve....
Untanas Volmyr wrote:As said in the post above, folding at home was something I heard about a few years back. It takes your space cpu cycles and calculates protein folding. For those who may not of known about it but are curious to contribute to it. The website is https://folding.stanford.edu/ Another website that also uses the same method of spare cpu cycles is with SETI. http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ I'm excited to see this come to a point that it is now part of a game. Another one I found myself dabbling with is for mapping the human brain. http://eyewire.org/explore Lots of things to multitask while you shoot space rocks!
I actually used to do SETI@home and Milkway@home. Need to reinstall the BOINC client sometime soon, but it would actually be pretty neat to see projects like these integrated into Eve in some way. It wouldn't really be interactive, sure, but it would be interesting to see what kind of ways it could be integrated. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
100
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Posted - 2016.03.10 12:37:56 -
[117] - Quote
Kata Amentis wrote:It's quite interesting, but some of the "correct" results don't make sense from either a description or sample image stand point. For example Bafflededit: More BaffledCould someone explain how that is the right answer? asymmetrical bloby/tubular compared to the "correct" symmetrical vainy/web. Is that "correct" in the sense that an above average number of people on sisi clicked on it, so we're being penalised because people are just clicking through carelessly? a bug? naff data in the project? etc. edit: couple of samples later, I get something almost the same as before "ok, it was this last time..." wrong.... erm
I got similar issue:
Result
But if we look at the description for "wrong" answer: Wrong answer
And compare to "correct" answer: Correct answer
Not sure if it's my eyes or what but the image to classify does not look evenly distributed in any way or form nor is there enough of green to really fit the nuclear speckles (all examples show far more staining than my image).
PS: I think I'll ask a few colleagues to check what they think as they are used to doing this stuff. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3040
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Posted - 2016.03.10 12:41:08 -
[118] - Quote
It's obvious people are spamming incorrect results, and the incorrect results spam is getting real attempts marked inaccurate because of 'majority' vote. A simple fix to this would be to move the percentage at which you get the 'unknown' images from 50% to at least 75%, so people really working on it don't have to deal with as many people spamming, since the spammers will not be pushing 75% easily, while 50% is pretty easy to bounce on. |
Oktura Ostus
Wicked Privateers Smile 'n' Wave
10
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Posted - 2016.03.10 13:29:35 -
[119] - Quote
I have to say, Discovery project is another example, when community plays in inexpected way thrashing any rules purposed by CCP.
Current popular logic to solve samples is following: 1. green on blue? Select first choise in first row (nucleus) 2. green on red? Select first choise in second row (cytoplasm). 3. Submit.
And it works, because majority of people do this and they got concensuss and raising accuracy. Those who tries to think or (majority: OMG!) use color filters to find some holes (majority: what is it?) will get accuracy penalty because they don't follow rules of majority.
This is my first sample today: 100081122, and there is no "big ball that overlaps with blue marker and evenly stained" and there is no "green that covers cell, except nucleus", there are clear and visible clusters inside holes, but who cares? Nucleus and cytoplasm wins.
Here is screenrecord where I toggle filters on the sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpHOz-86AQ8
Yesterday I stopped when hit 2 clear error answers (again nucleus and cytoplasm). So I have to either start following those rules too, or ... I don't know. Why I should try to do good job if popular error answers either way will win?
If it's not goal of the project to sort all samples in 4 categories (nothing, green on blue, green on red, green on both), then may be let's freeze it now, before whole community get used to follow those simple rules? |
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
73
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Posted - 2016.03.10 14:48:12 -
[120] - Quote
Kata Amentis wrote:It's quite interesting, but some of the "correct" results don't make sense from either a description or sample image stand point. For example Bafflededit: More BaffledCould someone explain how that is the right answer? asymmetrical bloby/tubular compared to the "correct" symmetrical vainy/web. Is that "correct" in the sense that an above average number of people on sisi clicked on it, so we're being penalised because people are just clicking through carelessly? a bug? naff data in the project? etc. edit: couple of samples later, I get something almost the same as before "ok, it was this last time..." wrong.... erm I am getting this more times than I can count and it is beginning to **** me off. I'm going to take the suggestion someone else mentioned and close/reopen after every submission to see if that helps. |
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