I know what YOUR version of being liberal is and you're wrong, the only different version of liberals that exists has been planted in your heads at a young age and you're too witless to understand that. I have only seen one proper example of a word or ideology that has been hijacked by a different ideology or political party and that is the Republican party being taken over by homophobic, god fearing, muslim hating, warmongering and adultering neo-conservative morons like some of the people posting on these boards.

American Liberals don't liberate and have not done so since 1776.

American conservatives have yet to actually conserve anything except government.

Tomorrow is Bill of Rights Day - and today they are going to sign into law (codify - they are are already doing it) the ability to use the Army in the US to detain people without charges, legal representation, or a trial, for an indefnate period. All it takes is a decree from the executive branch - no evidence required.

This whole argument may well be moot. We are arguing about the political system of a dead nation.

I'm a long time believer in the fallacy of democracy. It can work in a homogeneous city-state like Athens with voter restrictions, but never in a nation of hundreds of millions of different people. Most aren't able to clump two ideas next to each other, let alone decide how a nation should be ruled. What happened in 2008 is a perfect example of how through their ignorance and inability they fail fundamentally in their task. The main thing most of them knew about Obama was that he was black, and everyone knows he couldn't have possibly won if he was the same person but white. (even over Hillary Clinton?) Just sad and pathetic so shallow, almost racist in its reverse racism, the American people disgust me, the mobs throughout the world are disgusting. F U fickle masses

We'd just launch a massive campaign on their asses.
Bring down MSNBC!

MSNBC? Thank your lucky stars they haven't. Those conservative idiots would have this game shut down.

Do you know how I know you're an American?
For some reason you chaps have a very weird idea about liberal people, probably the fault of your mass media or schools, but you seem to think they're out to get you.

In short, anyone who is actually properly liberal wouldn't bat an eyelid about Eve, infact they'd probably encourage it.

The liberals I'm talking about wouldn't like the 'harsh world' or 'player-driven economy' parts or the minmatar for that matter, never ending list.

Also, conservatives can be libertarians or a mix. See: Ron Paul

Liberals hate 'liberty' as it were and believe that liberty is a threat to government which is there to make sure people eat, speak and behave properly see: "1984" George Orwell.

Tomorrow is Bill of Rights Day - and today they are going to sign into law (codify - they are are already doing it) the ability to use the Army in the US to detain people without charges, legal representation, or a trial, for an indefnate period. All it takes is a decree from the executive branch - no evidence required.

Section. 9.
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

This option has been written into the constitution since day 1.




His position is laughable.
The U.S. government is not conspiring to take your rights.
Please read the bill for yourselves.

The bill doesn't give anyone any new power, and does not say that the president can do this in any new circumstances. The whole thing begins with active duty military personnel who are already under this condition, and then it adds new restrictions on how they use it, with things like the classification of combatant vs civilian.

Are you aware that Lincoln invoked those powers and followup cases in the Supreme Court show down the precedents his actions set?

Can you detail rebellion or invasion going on now?

Yeah... it was invoked when there was TOTAL WAR on our own soil... and only against our enemies. That's a precedent for following the constitution to the letter and not abusing anything about it.

That's exactly how this country is supposed to work. If you don't like it, it's not hard to leave.





Can you detail a president invoking the power now?
Question makes no sense.






This bill does not invoke anything, it defines what our 'enemies' are, how money is moved, how we prepare for if it were invoked, etc. Read it and calm down.

You do know this bill goes through ANNUALLY right? We've been passing these since before you were born, it's been available without these bills through the constitution since before your father was a hopeful sperm, and you've lived your life without seeing habeas corpus suspended on all of america and our citizens being thrown in jail for nothing by faceless soldiers or whatever undefined horror story you think looms over you today.

"our" enemies? "We've"?

Hello? Were you there?

You write like a statist too.

Here's something to help you out .

You're not making sense. You posted statements about precedents, abuse, and implication, that I have shown are WRONG. You think word games and an article about fascism make you correct now? Apply whatever labels you want. You're still wrong about the implications of this bill, and you're still unable to admit it or argue another step forward.

So let's make a deal. You keep misinforming and dissipating, and I will keep informing and training and if I am wrong and wasting my time, I will buy you a case of beer. We'll know eventually who was right.

Another cute rant Herzog, but misinformation has a much simpler definition than fascist or statist. All you do is drop fire and forget propaganda you can't back up for an instant, and no one is fooled by hyperbole comparisons that don't fit, when you can't argue reality.

[quote=Buzzmong]I'm an American as well, and a liberal. I fully agree with your first statement. It's not really "the media" though, it's just language abuse to make a point, and Republicans are simply better at it. Their spin machine works better for some reason and people start accepting what they're saying as truth without reviewing it. Being liberal is a good thing! It's what pulled us up from the dark ages and differentiates us from the ME, conservative systems.

The latter part though...there are some people that call themselves "liberal" that think we need to be protected from bad thinking, art, etc... There's actually more of them on the other side, but they're more concerned about what we do in the bedroom and to whom. The big, bad "violent" video games are seen by some as cultural/moral decay that causes people to go on murderous rampages or something. Some of these people call themselves "liberals", but I agree they're really not. What's funny is that there are at least as many "conservatives" concerned about this stuff but it's somehow been spun into a bad, liberal agenda.

Frankly I agree with some parts of their POV but not the cause. We are a very violent, self-centered culture but it has absolutely nothing with video games. It's probably more the news and stupid ass reality shows than anything else. But make laws to stop it? Except for the massive war machine we're all excited about...no way.

I also think there's an inherent imbalance that's completely backward when comparing violence and sex in our culture. Sex is BAD BAD BAD. Show one nip and everyone freaks out like they've never seen it before. Tear a woman in half in a video game though....that's a protected expression of art that can't even be labeled as having "graphic content" and requiring parental consent to purchase. Our laws about sex and our obsession with keeping body parts hidden is fairly disturbed in my opinion, especially when compared to what we accept as normal, acceptable violent displays. If there was a balance here then our children's cartoons would be filled with poop fetish and S&M dungeons.

If anything though, a "liberal" might want EvE regulated so that it couldn't be sold to a 5 year old without an adult present. I don't think any of them are calling for video game *banning*...just don't peddle violence like a drug to the kids. I don't agree with their goals, but I can see their point.