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Torothin
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
272
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Posted - 2016.01.24 18:56:23 -
[1] - Quote
No fear of bubbles and losing those expensive implants upon blowing up must be nice. Is this considered PvP with an asterisk beside it? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
13716
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Posted - 2016.01.24 19:05:51 -
[2] - Quote
nope.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Anoron Secheh
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
9
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Posted - 2016.01.24 19:15:36 -
[3] - Quote
Some of the smuggest and cockiest people I've met and seen come from lowsec. Battleships? Yeah, no bombs in lowsec. High-grade Snake pods? Yeah, it's next to impossible to catch them in lowsec. |
Azda Ja
Meticulously Indifferent
4824
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Posted - 2016.01.24 19:20:26 -
[4] - Quote
Grrr.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
9512
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Posted - 2016.01.24 19:46:50 -
[5] - Quote
Low-sec PvP is easy mode?
No. It's more of a lateral move from null-sec PvP.
Some risks and benefits go away and other risks and benefits pop up.
No more bubbles? Okay, sure, you pod is now quite safe. But it is also very, very hard to stop people from Leeroying into a system you are defending.
No more bombs? Okay... you can now use bigger ships without fear of being erased by a small squad of unseen ships. But you also have to deal with the reality that others can use the same ships to create medium-sized wrecking-balls of destruction... and there is no easy way to deal with them.
NPC stations everywhere? Okay, you no longer have to fear about your station being conquered and thus be locked out from your stuff. But you also have to deal with the reality that your enemies can pretty much live in the same station as you do and can see you whenever you undock.
More people and things to do? Okay, you have more entertainment. But you also have to deal with the fact that there is always a hostile of some kind in your system and you never quite know where they are. (NOTE: this is why low-sec players laugh at null-sec people about AFK-cloakers... we deal with that reality everyday)
Easier logistics? Okay, you have more security in what things you have and can easily procure something you need. But your enemies have the same ability and you can't really stop them.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
236
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Posted - 2016.01.24 20:12:57 -
[6] - Quote
This is a 3/10 at best. |
J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6252
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Posted - 2016.01.24 20:49:35 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the reminder on why 99% of the thread in GD suck.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
43735
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Posted - 2016.01.24 20:58:55 -
[8] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
32
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Posted - 2016.01.25 01:48:29 -
[9] - Quote
Different types of pvp in eve explained:
*High Sec PVP - I like to feel safe when i pvp *Low Sec PVP - I'll wait here for easy targets. *Faction Warfare PVP- Kamikaze, that is all. * NPC Null PVP - i want to do real pvp, but i dont want you to take my stuff. * Sov PVP- I have my own stuff.... but i want yours also. *Wormhole PVP - Im a ninja!
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
55
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Posted - 2016.01.25 03:22:32 -
[10] - Quote
It's a literal question. You're getting philosophical answers. Doing gang roams in T1 dessies with a bunch of drunk pals for lulz is in no way the meta game for EVE. (This will be 1.) It isn't remotely like building an empire in null sec with a corp of a few dozen active players creating your own infrastructure, manufacturing/mining/marketing operation with an accompanying formidable defense force (and maybe even a bit of offense to expand into others' territories as need should arise) allied with other similar corps with like interests. (This will be 10.) 10 being then "meta" or "hard mode". 1 being "easy" or "drunk bro activity mode". Just place your concept on the scale of 1 to 10.* As in most questions on this forum, you've answered yours in your own post.
*It is assumed the activity of ganking n00bs still in n00bish states with T3 dessies isn't valid game play so should not be not included would be obvious to anyone who is sober, honest or has half a brain. This is more akin to the digital nail biting with accompanying inter-pants peeing...like real drunks do. What's this CODE for?
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Netan MalDoran
Last Garrison
185
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Posted - 2016.01.25 03:30:29 -
[11] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Low-sec PvP is easy mode?
No. It's more of a lateral move from null-sec PvP.
Some risks and benefits go away and other risks and benefits pop up.
No more bubbles? Okay, sure, your pod is now quite safe. But it is also very, very hard to stop people from Leeroying into a system you are defending.
No more bombs? Okay... you can now use bigger ships without fear of being erased by a small squad of unseen ships. But you also have to deal with the reality that others can use the same ships to create medium-sized wrecking-balls of destruction... and there is no easy way to deal with them.
NPC stations everywhere? Okay, you no longer have to fear about your station being conquered and thus be locked out from your stuff. But you also have to deal with the reality that your enemies can pretty much live in the same station as you do and can see you whenever you undock.
More people and things to do? Okay, you have more entertainment. But you also have to deal with the fact that there is always a hostile of some kind in your system and you will never be able to "clear local" or be without hostiles in system. Ever. (NOTE: this is why low-sec players laugh at null-sec people about AFK-cloakers... we deal with that reality everyday)
Easier logistics? Okay, you have more security in what things you have and can easily procure something you need. But your enemies have the same ability and you can't really stop them.
As someone who has lived in and pirated in lowsec for almost 2 years, this is 100% true, its not easier, its just as hard only in different ways (And its wayyyy more fun!) You can either go out in a t3 if you have cash to occasionally burn, or just use a t1 frig for some fun kills! I dont really know anywhere in null that you can do solo t1 frig pvp and be successful (Possibly NPC, but idk). Plus the people there tend to have much more RL SP than the null bears so, experience is your winner, SP comes second.
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
Falcon's truth
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1859
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Posted - 2016.01.25 08:11:25 -
[12] - Quote
No
Akrasjel Lanate
CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Chasida
Instant Annihilation Northern Army
0
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Posted - 2016.01.25 08:33:06 -
[13] - Quote
Returning player here; is this a new/coming change, or why is this suddenly posted like its a new thing? I am not trolling, I am seriously asking. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
13731
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Posted - 2016.01.25 09:45:02 -
[14] - Quote
Chasida wrote:Returning player here; is this a new/coming change, or why is this suddenly posted like its a new thing? I am not trolling, I am seriously asking. op is flamebaiting , nothing to see here
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
12
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Posted - 2016.01.25 10:15:20 -
[15] - Quote
Torothin wrote:No fear of bubbles and losing those expensive implants upon blowing up must be nice. Is this considered PvP with an asterisk beside it?
Who bought your character? |
Torothin
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
272
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Posted - 2016.01.25 14:04:45 -
[16] - Quote
RuleoftheBone wrote:Torothin wrote:No fear of bubbles and losing those expensive implants upon blowing up must be nice. Is this considered PvP with an asterisk beside it? Who bought your character?
Nobody did. I just don't think low-sec PvPers are as "leet" as they claim to be. As stated earlier, I base my statement on implants. It's so nice to have a full high grade slave set and not have to worry about being podded. Or doing a good RR BS doctrine and not run the risk of being bombed. Must be nice. |
Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
35
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Posted - 2016.01.25 14:56:59 -
[17] - Quote
Torothin wrote:RuleoftheBone wrote:Torothin wrote:No fear of bubbles and losing those expensive implants upon blowing up must be nice. Is this considered PvP with an asterisk beside it? Who bought your character? Nobody did. I just don't think low-sec PvPers are as "leet" as they claim to be. As stated earlier, I base my statement on implants. It's so nice to have a full high grade slave set and not have to worry about being podded. Or doing a good RR BS doctrine and not run the risk of being bombed. Must be nice.
Honestly you will find most low sec pvpers tend to prey on the same types of people that wardeccers do. These are almost always "carebears" or people trying to sneak in or through low sec for various non pvp activities. In null if you have a small gang roaming around you much more likely to get a fight from other pvpers.
Null pvpers tend to be more experienced at pvp but less adapt to solo pvp.
In some ways null pvp is more hardcore. In others lowsec pvp ( or null npc) would be harder. In null if you have 5 neuts in system they are likely there to kill you. In lowsec if you have 5 neuts in system only 1 or 2 may be out to kill you. the rest may be managing a POS, trying to ninja rat, in a dock doing various station activities or just passing through on their way to somewhere else.
As it was said. They are different types of pvp. I do consider low sec pvp to be easier because you never run the risk of losing access to the dock. So you can always sneak in and collect your things and sneak out. Whereas in null if you dont have docking rights or a JC, your not getting back in the dock unless you take it back.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2316
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:32:20 -
[18] - Quote
lived in null most of my days, and lowsec is just more funner
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Keno Skir
784
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:36:46 -
[19] - Quote
Everyone thinks their kind of PvP is the most hardcore.
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2515
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:42:23 -
[20] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Low-sec PvP is easy mode?
No. It's more of a lateral move from null-sec PvP.
Some risks and benefits go away and other risks and benefits pop up.
No more bubbles? Okay, sure, your pod is now quite safe. But it is also very, very hard to stop people from Leeroying into a system you are defending.
No more bombs? Okay... you can now use bigger ships without fear of being erased by a small squad of unseen ships. But you also have to deal with the reality that others can use the same ships to create medium-sized wrecking-balls of destruction... and there is no easy way to deal with them.
NPC stations everywhere? Okay, you no longer have to fear about your station being conquered and thus be locked out from your stuff. But you also have to deal with the reality that your enemies can pretty much live in the same station as you do and can see you whenever you undock.
More people and things to do? Okay, you have more entertainment. But you also have to deal with the fact that there is always a hostile of some kind in your system and you will never be able to "clear local" or be without hostiles in system. Ever. (NOTE: this is why low-sec players laugh at null-sec people about AFK-cloakers... we deal with that reality everyday)
Easier logistics? Okay, you have more security in what things you have and can easily procure something you need. But your enemies have the same ability and you can't really stop them.
Probably the best way to look at it. |
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Darkstar01
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:45:17 -
[21] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Low-sec PvP is easy mode?
No. It's more of a lateral move from null-sec PvP.
Some risks and benefits go away and other risks and benefits pop up.
No more bubbles? Okay, sure, your pod is now quite safe. But it is also very, very hard to stop people from Leeroying into a system you are defending.
No more bombs? Okay... you can now use bigger ships without fear of being erased by a small squad of unseen ships. But you also have to deal with the reality that others can use the same ships to create medium-sized wrecking-balls of destruction... and there is no easy way to deal with them.
NPC stations everywhere? Okay, you no longer have to fear about your station being conquered and thus be locked out from your stuff. But you also have to deal with the reality that your enemies can pretty much live in the same station as you do and can see you whenever you undock.
More people and things to do? Okay, you have more entertainment. But you also have to deal with the fact that there is always a hostile of some kind in your system and you will never be able to "clear local" or be without hostiles in system. Ever. (NOTE: this is why low-sec players laugh at null-sec people about AFK-cloakers... we deal with that reality everyday)
Easier logistics? Okay, you have more security in what things you have and can easily procure something you need. But your enemies have the same ability and you can't really stop them.
Any type of PvP where you are based out of an NPC station, and your corp/alliance has a majority of their members in the NPC station, is easy mode.
You don't have to worry much about moving assets, or not being able to get your assets out when your station / system gets taken over.
Your enemy cannot force a fight on you, because it's an NPC station and you can just dock up. So you don't have to dedicate as much resources to defending your station / system. The assets in your personal / corp hangar will be safe and movable no matter if you fight, or don't fight, because its an NPC station. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2316
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:50:23 -
[22] - Quote
are people really comparing sov null to lowsec pvp haha, all sov know how to do is blob the hell out of everything
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Darkstar01
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2016.01.25 17:55:47 -
[23] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:are people really comparing sov null to lowsec pvp haha, all sov know how to do is blob the hell out of everything
And all low-sec PvPers how to do is dock up in the NPC station, and try use gate cannon to their advantage.
Generally speaking, 0.0 PvP is much harder because:
1. In Sov systems, none of the Stations are immune. Your enemy can force a fight on you, because you need to defend your station. Especially if your corp / alliance has a lot of assets in that station, and will be locked out if the enemy takes it over.
2. You run into blobs
3. On a small scale pvp, there is no gate turret to help if other people engage first.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2316
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Posted - 2016.01.25 18:02:21 -
[24] - Quote
Darkstar01 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:are people really comparing sov null to lowsec pvp haha, all sov know how to do is blob the hell out of everything And all low-sec PvPers how to do is dock up in the NPC station, and try use gate cannon to their advantage. Generally speaking, 0.0 Sov PvP is much harder because: 1. In Sov systems, none of the Stations are immune. Your enemy can force a fight on you, because you need to defend your station. Especially if your corp / alliance has a lot of assets in that station, and will be locked out if the enemy takes it over. 2. You run into blobs 3. On a small scale pvp, there is no gate turret to help if other people engage first.
in sov you have timers, you dont just instantly lose your station so you have plenty of time to move assets and blue ball people, we also have titans and supers in pos's.
you dont get blobs in lowsec? blobs aint a difficult thing it doesnt make pvp harder because everyone has scouts and if your fleet hits a blob then they should have had a scout.
gate turrets work both ways, its not really a factor to measure the hardness of pvp
again sov mostly know how to blob and most of the time they are easily fooled by a small scale fc who is organised, sov = throw everything you can at everything.
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Darkstar01
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2016.01.25 18:12:51 -
[25] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Darkstar01 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:are people really comparing sov null to lowsec pvp haha, all sov know how to do is blob the hell out of everything And all low-sec PvPers how to do is dock up in the NPC station, and try use gate cannon to their advantage. Generally speaking, 0.0 Sov PvP is much harder because: 1. In Sov systems, none of the Stations are immune. Your enemy can force a fight on you, because you need to defend your station. Especially if your corp / alliance has a lot of assets in that station, and will be locked out if the enemy takes it over. 2. You run into blobs 3. On a small scale pvp, there is no gate turret to help if other people engage first. in sov you have timers, you dont just instantly lose your station so you have plenty of time to move assets and blue ball people, we also have titans and supers in pos's. you dont get blobs in lowsec? blobs aint a difficult thing it doesnt make pvp harder because everyone has scouts and if your fleet hits a blob then they should have had a scout. litterally speaking tidi and 200 man fleets where you just follow a conga line and hit f1 isnt hard gate turrets work both ways, its not really a factor to measure the hardness of pvp, fleets have logi and gate guns are not hard to tank again sov mostly know how to blob and most of the time they are easily fooled by a small scale fc who is organised, sov = throw everything you can at everything.
Basically, you've just admitted that when you do a hard comparison of game mechanics, 0.0 Sov pvp is more difficult.
Because everything you do in 0.0, you can also do in lowsec.
In Lowsec, there are no timers, so your stations and assets are invincible 100% of the time. You don't lose your pods so you can always PvP in high grade Slave / Snake / Crystal implants - even your entire fleet can PvP in Snake / Slave / Crystal implants!
In Low Sec, blobs are less deadly, because there are no bubbles! Ships can warp away easier from blobs.
Also, Supercap logistics is easier in lowsec, because you can more easily set up safe poses in another lowsec system 1 jump away, and cyno your supercap right on the POS.
Of course since you're from lowsec, you would like to think lowsec pvp is the most elite of them all - but I am just doing a hard comparison between game mechanics here. And when you compare the game mechanics between the two, 0.0 is more difficult. |
Torothin
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
272
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Posted - 2016.01.25 18:19:59 -
[26] - Quote
Darkstar01 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Darkstar01 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:are people really comparing sov null to lowsec pvp haha, all sov know how to do is blob the hell out of everything And all low-sec PvPers how to do is dock up in the NPC station, and try use gate cannon to their advantage. Generally speaking, 0.0 Sov PvP is much harder because: 1. In Sov systems, none of the Stations are immune. Your enemy can force a fight on you, because you need to defend your station. Especially if your corp / alliance has a lot of assets in that station, and will be locked out if the enemy takes it over. 2. You run into blobs 3. On a small scale pvp, there is no gate turret to help if other people engage first. in sov you have timers, you dont just instantly lose your station so you have plenty of time to move assets and blue ball people, we also have titans and supers in pos's. you dont get blobs in lowsec? blobs aint a difficult thing it doesnt make pvp harder because everyone has scouts and if your fleet hits a blob then they should have had a scout. litterally speaking tidi and 200 man fleets where you just follow a conga line and hit f1 isnt hard gate turrets work both ways, its not really a factor to measure the hardness of pvp, fleets have logi and gate guns are not hard to tank again sov mostly know how to blob and most of the time they are easily fooled by a small scale fc who is organised, sov = throw everything you can at everything. Basically, you've just admitted that when you do a hard comparison of game mechanics, 0.0 Sov pvp is more difficult. Because everything you do in 0.0, you can also do in lowsec. In Lowsec, there are no timers, so your stations and assets are invincible 100% of the time. You don't lose your pods so you can always PvP in high grade Slave / Snake / Crystal implants - even your entire fleet can PvP in Snake / Slave / Crystal implants! In Low Sec, blobs are less deadly, because there are no bubbles! Ships can warp away easier from blobs. Also, Supercap logistics is easier in lowsec, because you can easily set up safe poses in another lowsec system 1 jump away, and cyno your supercap right on the POS. Whereas in 0.0, it might be all hostile space and blobs within jumping distanc e. There are also cyno jammers in 0.0. Of course since you're from lowsec, you would like to think lowsec pvp is the most elite of them all - but I am just doing a hard comparison between game mechanics here. And when you compare the game mechanics between the two, 0.0 is more difficult.
What about the entities in 0.0 who don't want sov and base out of NPC stations? These entities surround themselves around sov holding alliances leading to a target rich environment for them. Their KB stats are different because the kills generally involve less people and revolve around guerrilla warefare tactics meaning they are not a SOV holding F1 monkey and rack up 150 kills in one fight and claim to have awesome k/d ratios just by hitting F1 and following broadcasts. Just because someone partakes in 0.0 pvp does not mean they always partake in sov pvp. Just throwing that out there. |
Darkstar01
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2016.01.25 18:23:15 -
[27] - Quote
Torothin wrote:Darkstar01 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Darkstar01 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:are people really comparing sov null to lowsec pvp haha, all sov know how to do is blob the hell out of everything And all low-sec PvPers how to do is dock up in the NPC station, and try use gate cannon to their advantage. Generally speaking, 0.0 Sov PvP is much harder because: 1. In Sov systems, none of the Stations are immune. Your enemy can force a fight on you, because you need to defend your station. Especially if your corp / alliance has a lot of assets in that station, and will be locked out if the enemy takes it over. 2. You run into blobs 3. On a small scale pvp, there is no gate turret to help if other people engage first. in sov you have timers, you dont just instantly lose your station so you have plenty of time to move assets and blue ball people, we also have titans and supers in pos's. you dont get blobs in lowsec? blobs aint a difficult thing it doesnt make pvp harder because everyone has scouts and if your fleet hits a blob then they should have had a scout. litterally speaking tidi and 200 man fleets where you just follow a conga line and hit f1 isnt hard gate turrets work both ways, its not really a factor to measure the hardness of pvp, fleets have logi and gate guns are not hard to tank again sov mostly know how to blob and most of the time they are easily fooled by a small scale fc who is organised, sov = throw everything you can at everything. Basically, you've just admitted that when you do a hard comparison of game mechanics, 0.0 Sov pvp is more difficult. Because everything you do in 0.0, you can also do in lowsec. In Lowsec, there are no timers, so your stations and assets are invincible 100% of the time. You don't lose your pods so you can always PvP in high grade Slave / Snake / Crystal implants - even your entire fleet can PvP in Snake / Slave / Crystal implants! In Low Sec, blobs are less deadly, because there are no bubbles! Ships can warp away easier from blobs. Also, Supercap logistics is easier in lowsec, because you can easily set up safe poses in another lowsec system 1 jump away, and cyno your supercap right on the POS. Whereas in 0.0, it might be all hostile space and blobs within jumping distanc e. There are also cyno jammers in 0.0. Of course since you're from lowsec, you would like to think lowsec pvp is the most elite of them all - but I am just doing a hard comparison between game mechanics here. And when you compare the game mechanics between the two, 0.0 is more difficult. What about the entities in 0.0 who don't want sov and base out of NPC stations? These entities surround themselves around sov holding alliances leading to a target rich environment for them. Their KB stats are different because the kills generally involve less people and revolve around guerrilla warefare tactics meaning they are not a SOV holding F1 monkey and rack up 150 kills in one fight and claim to have awesome k/d ratios just by hitting F1 and following broadcasts. Just because someone partakes in 0.0 pvp does not mean they always partake in sov pvp. Just throwing that out there.
It depends on what 0.0 NPC system they are based in, but it is still more difficult than lowsec because of the reasons I mentioned above.
Also because many of the 0.0 NPC systems are deep inside 0.0, and anything within 1 - 2 Cyno jump is 0.0 Sov space. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2318
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Posted - 2016.01.25 18:27:20 -
[28] - Quote
you just assume ive always lived in lowsec, i moved to lowsec from npc curse where i done small gang fighting mostly against sov, they blob alot with kitchen sink fleets and dont really know how to deal with small organised fleets so they just throw more and more ships at it and hope for the best.
i live in lowsec because there is more targets and you have to be a bit more cautious as the systems are alot more populated, you dont always know a neut in lowsec is hostile, you do in sov because neuts should not be in your space
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Torothin
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
273
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Posted - 2016.01.25 18:28:26 -
[29] - Quote
You were basing your argument on 0.0 sov PvP which is F1 monkey PvP. That's equally as bad as low-sec PvP on many levels. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
9522
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Posted - 2016.01.25 20:36:20 -
[30] - Quote
Gaiz! Gaiz!
If you helecoper your epeens enough you may yet learn how to fly!
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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