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The Ferox is underpowered and needs a buff

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Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2892	Posted - 2016.01.26 09:19:20 - [31] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: end of the day, your suggested change isn't going to happen. Caldari hybrid ships get more range and gallante get higher damage, as it has always been. Not contrary to my suggestion. I included two solutions in my post, one makes the Ferox more powerful than the Brutix at the cost of defense, and the other brings back the Ferox's defense bonus and leaves its relative offense equivalent in terms of range to damage ratios. Actually my defensive suggestion reduces the Ferox's damage a bit at skill 5 as I suggest only a 20% damage role bonus after removing the 5% per level. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2260	Posted - 2016.01.26 10:49:56 - [32] - Quote So, either case makes the Ferox worse than it is now? Either more Damage with worse tank (making it less viable as a fleet or solo platform) or more tank but less DPS (making it less able to kill things). UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2892	Posted - 2016.01.26 10:59:41 - [33] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: So, either case makes the Ferox worse than it is now? Either more Damage with worse tank (making it less viable as a fleet or solo platform) or more tank but less DPS (making it less able to kill things). I don't know if you checked recently, but the Ferox doesn't have its resist bonus anymore. Previously, when it still did, it had 7 turret slots and no damage bonus, forcing it to spend a larger percentage of its fitting on weapons for a significantly lower damage output. My suggestion is far from a nerf. Increasing its damage won't decrease its tank, and increasing its tank (with my suggestion) gives it a marginal decrease in damage far smaller than the gap that already exists between it and the Brutix in terms of damage. Please do some basic research before posting. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2260	Posted - 2016.01.26 11:52:58 - [34] - Quote Quote: ...one makes the Ferox more powerful than the Brutix at the cost of defense, UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2893	Posted - 2016.01.26 12:35:13 - [35] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Quote: ...one makes the Ferox more powerful than the Brutix at the cost of defense, It already costs the defense. If you had read my proposal you would have seen that I didn't suggest any further reductions. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2250	Posted - 2016.01.26 13:19:07 - [36] - Quote Reaver, ships don't all have to be the same. You seem to want to homogenize Eve. We had a Ferox doctrine before we switched to Hurricanes because alpha damage is very nice. Plenty of folks still have the Ferox and use them effectively in the small gangs I lead. The Ferox is unquestionably a better shield doctrine fleet ship than the Brutix. That's its role. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2893	Posted - 2016.01.26 14:39:00 - [37] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Reaver, ships don't all have to be the same. You seem to want to homogenize Eve. I've given no such indication. FT Diomedes wrote: The Ferox is unquestionably a better shield doctrine fleet ship than the Brutix. That's its role. I never suggested that the Brutix is a better shield-tanker. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2518	Posted - 2016.01.26 14:59:03 - [38] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Reaver, ships don't all have to be the same. You seem to want to homogenize Eve. I've given no such indication. FT Diomedes wrote: The Ferox is unquestionably a better shield doctrine fleet ship than the Brutix. That's its role. I never suggested that the Brutix is a better shield-tanker. Then the Ferox is better than the Brutix at something so there is no need to change it seeing as it already has it's own use case that isn't a stupid gimmick.
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 1000	Posted - 2016.01.26 15:28:47 - [39] - Quote Show us your fits. Somethings wrong with your statements and the only way to prove this to you is through the fits.... Ferox and Brutix. No Worries
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2893	Posted - 2016.01.27 02:37:49 - [40] - Quote So you want to say that because the Ferox can do something that no other combat battlecruiser can do, that therefore means it isn't underpowered? If the Cerberus had its missile rate of fire bonus removed, would it not be underpowered? It would still outrange any other HAC but at considerably reduced DPS. Does that mean it would be fine without the rate of fire bonus? Should the bonus be removed? Is it overpowered to have the bonus? Because by your logic apparently it is. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2137	Posted - 2016.01.27 11:14:25 - [41] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: Show us your fits. Somethings wrong with your statements and the only way to prove this to you is through the fits.... Ferox and Brutix. This Show us what you consider to be good brawling fits and good ranged fits for both the ferox and brutix, and maybe we will understand why you think the ferox in weak. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2521	Posted - 2016.01.27 15:11:03 - [42] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: So you want to say that because the Ferox can do something that no other combat battlecruiser can do, that therefore means it isn't underpowered? If the Cerberus had its missile rate of fire bonus removed, would it not be underpowered? It would still outrange any other HAC but at considerably reduced DPS. Does that mean it would be fine without the rate of fire bonus? Should the bonus be removed? Is it overpowered to have the bonus? Because by your logic apparently it is. If you were to remove missile ROF, you would have to put something back in that bonus slot. What would it be? Shield resist? Shield boost amount? Missile flight time? MIssile velocity? Missile damage? Missile explosion radius? Missile explosion velocity? Back to the Ferox, it just does not need more damage. It's pretty decently balanced right now for it's intended job. If you try to run it like a Brutix, the Brutix will do a better job at it but if you run it like a Ferox, then it shows it's strength.
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 454	Posted - 2016.01.27 21:05:30 - [43] - Quote With "Vanguard", the Ferox got an additional Medslot when they removed the resistance bonus. That helped the ship quite a lot. If you miss the resistance boni, just fit an Invulnerability Field. If not you can increase the damage application or utility of the ship. I like the current version of the Ferox. It's still not the "King of the hill" in the Battlecruiser segment, but it shines in many situations.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2016.01.28 07:49:39 - [44] - Quote Any time you deal with something with a range specialty, think about what happens when you've got a lot of them spread out: A short-range ship might (should) put out more damage, but a fleet of them don't overlap fields of fire nearly as well. Make a move at one, and its friends make your life interesting. A signature :o
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 16:44:07 - [45] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: If you were to remove missile ROF, you would have to put something back in that bonus slot. That's my point exactly!! The Ferox has LESS skill bonus than the Brutix!! The Brutix has: 10% Damage per level (increased above standard because it has fewer weapon slots) 7.5% Armor Repair per level (standard skill bonus) The Ferox has: 5% Damage per level (standard, despite having fewer weapon slots) 10% Optimal Range per level (standard skill bonus) FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2536	Posted - 2016.01.28 17:50:59 - [46] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: If you were to remove missile ROF, you would have to put something back in that bonus slot. That's my point exactly!! The Ferox has LESS skill bonus than the Brutix!! The Brutix has: 10% Damage per level (increased above standard because it has fewer weapon slots) 7.5% Armor Repair per level (standard skill bonus) The Ferox has: 5% Damage per level (standard, despite having fewer weapon slots) 10% Optimal Range per level (standard skill bonus) I see 2 bonus on each ship. The fact that the bonus are not numerically equivalent does not mean they are not balanced.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 731	Posted - 2016.01.28 18:12:19 - [47] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: If you were to remove missile ROF, you would have to put something back in that bonus slot. That's my point exactly!! The Ferox has LESS skill bonus than the Brutix!! The Brutix has: 10% Damage per level (increased above standard because it has fewer weapon slots) 7.5% Armor Repair per level (standard skill bonus) The Ferox has: 5% Damage per level (standard, despite having fewer weapon slots) 10% Optimal Range per level (standard skill bonus) I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Your same logic would apply to any gallente Vs Caldari boat. For example, an enyo does more dps than a harpy. Yet we don't have enyo fleets, we have harpy fleets. Should we give the harpy a 10% damage bonus too, just because the numbers don't match? Do you really want to buff harpy fleets just because the numbers don't match? You need to realize an optimal bonus is a damage bonus. It means the damage can be applied farther using shorter range, high dps ammo. Caldari hybrid boats are about range, not damage. Gallente hybrid boats are about raw damage and application (tracking). This is the racial flavor of each. They are balanced around those roles. A dual XLASB blaster ferox has a much better and sustainable tank than a brutix, with slightly less dps. I've seen dual XLASB ferox's win against hull or dual rep brutix. Its not rocket science to understand the roles for each ship. The ferox has the largest base targeting range of any t1 BC, why do you think that is? Maybe its because its intended to use rail guns, at range? The exact thing that plenty of alliances are doing with them in fleets with good success. The strange thing is, i've never seen a brutix fleet... maybe there is a reason for that? Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 18:47:18 - [48] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: I see 2 bonus on each ship. The fact that the bonus are not numerically equivalent does not mean they are not balanced. Given that the Ferox and Brutix have the same total number of high slots, total slots, and weapon slots, yes it does mean that. Stitch Kaneland wrote: I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Your same logic would apply to any gallente Vs Caldari boat. For example, an enyo does more dps than a harpy. The Enyo has two damage skill bonuses while the Harpy has one. That 10% damage bonus per level on the Enyo is two 5% bonuses rolled together. The 10% damage bonus on the Brutix is not two skill bonuses, it is one. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 18:49:22 - [49] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: The strange thing is, i've never seen a brutix fleet... maybe there is a reason for that? I've never seen a Ferox fleet, but it is a fleet ship and the Brutix is a solo or small gang ship. Just as a Ferox is possibly more popular for fleets (that's arguable), the Brutix is clearly more popular for soloing and/or PVE as well it should be. It has nearly identical damage to range ratios as the Ferox within the ranges they can both match (which is most of their range), but better defense. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 731	Posted - 2016.01.28 19:22:08 - [50] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: The strange thing is, i've never seen a brutix fleet... maybe there is a reason for that? I've never seen a Ferox fleet, but it is a fleet ship and the Brutix is a solo or small gang ship. Just as a Ferox is possibly more popular for fleets (that's arguable), the Brutix is clearly more popular for soloing and/or PVE as well it should be. It has nearly identical damage to range ratios as the Ferox within the ranges they can both match (which is most of their range), but better defense. I think you need to step out of EFT and look at actual fights happening in game. Ferox fleets and hurricane fleets are common now. The ferox is a fleet ship that is meant to use rail guns, and when looking at it in that manner, it out performs a brutix in every way. [Ferox, RailFleet] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I EHP: 76050 (with 133 native recharge) and all resists are over 60% or 85k with invuln overheated Damage: 539 dps @ 39+24km using antimatter Targeting Range: 93.75km [Brutix, Rail Fleet] 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II 50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I EHP: 64241 Damage: 481 @ 32+36km Targeting Range: 120km To point out, the brutix isn't designed for rails, as it needs 2 fitting mods to make use of 250mm rail guns. This reduces its damage potential and still doesn't match the ferox in EHP. Not to mention with 2 tracking computers, still doesn't have better optimal range (better fall-off, but meh). The brutix also needs to fit a sebo to get comparable/better range than base ferox range (93km on base ferox, and 75km base on brutix). Again, you are comparing ships with different roles. The brutix is an in your face brawler, which is a decent solo pvp BC. The ferox is a ship setup with railguns in mind, and is a better fleet ship. However, the ferox can still brawl decently with dual XLASB fit, and tanks better than a brutix since it can OH invuln, otherwise, they both tank about the same. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:15:42 - [51] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: EHP: 76050 (with 133 native recharge) and all resists are over 60% or 85k with invuln overheated Damage: 539 dps @ 39+24km using antimatter Targeting Range: 93.75km [Brutix, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M [empty high slot] Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I EHP: 56428 (with 74 native recharge) and all resists are over 60% Damage: 592 dps @ 34+26km using plutonium and lets not forget the 99 DPS Ferox gets from 5 hobgoblins vs 158 the Brutix gets from 5 hammerheads. So it's more like this: Ferox: 638 dps @ 39+24km using antimatter Brutix: 750 dps @ 34+26km using plutonium Better damage projection than Ferox due to larger number of low slots, and tank isn't that much worse. I'm not saying I would choose Brutix over Ferox for a shield fleet, but I am saying the Brutix can be shield fleeted. Stitch Kaneland wrote: To point out, the brutix isn't designed for rails, as it needs 2 fitting mods to make use of 250mm rail guns. No it doesn't. Stitch Kaneland wrote: Again, you are comparing ships with different roles. Again, we are in agreement that they have different roles. What you are missing is that the Ferox has a smaller damage bonus than the Brutix. The Ferox has 1.5 skill bonuses, not 2 like pretty much every other tech 1 ship. (I say pretty much every other tech 1 ship because there are three other combat battlecruisers with the same problem of having ~1.5 skill bonuses) FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 731	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:34:20 - [52] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: EHP: 76050 (with 133 native recharge) and all resists are over 60% or 85k with invuln overheated Damage: 539 dps @ 39+24km using antimatter Targeting Range: 93.75km [Brutix, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M [empty high slot] Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I EHP: 56428 (with 74 native recharge) and all resists are over 60% Damage: 592 dps @ 34+26km using plutonium Better damage projection than Ferox due to larger number of low slots, and tank isn't that much worse. I'm not saying I would choose Brutix over Ferox for a shield fleet, but I am saying the Brutix can be shield fleeted. Stitch Kaneland wrote: To point out, the brutix isn't designed for rails, as it needs 2 fitting mods to make use of 250mm rail guns. No it doesn't. Stitch Kaneland wrote: Again, you are comparing ships with different roles. Again, we are in agreement that they have different roles. What you are missing is that the Ferox has a smaller damage bonus than the Brutix. The Ferox has 1.5 skill bonuses, not 2 like pretty much every other tech 1 ship. (I say pretty much every other tech 1 ship because there are three other combat battlecruisers with the same problem of having ~1.5 skill bonuses) What about your targeting range? You are scraping the edge of your range with plutonium. Ferox has 20km over the brutix before a sebo. The Ferox out dps' your plutonium brutix with antimatter past 45km. Using plutonium, the ferox can easily push its dps well out from the brutix. See the dps graph below. The ferox loaded with anti-matter, your brutix loaded with plutonium. You are ignoring the RANGE bonus on the hull and looking at only the numbers. The ferox applies its dps better at range, even with a lower damage bonus. THIS is the reason why the ferox is fine. http://imgur.com/UGRgW35 Ferox with antimatter, brutix with plutonium http://imgur.com/Q11xCHq Ferox with plutonium, brutix with plutonium See, range bonus = damage in ranged engagements. The only time where the brutix is slightly better than the ferox is when both are using spike. The thing is though, the ferox can use another ammo type and not suffer tracking/damage penalty and still get comparable range. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:42:00 - [53] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: What about your targeting range? You are scraping the edge of your range with plutonium. Not even close. The Brutix has 75km targeting range. Could use a sensor booster for sniping, but you were showing short range. I could just throw on a signal amplifier also. Plenty of low slots for that. Stitch Kaneland wrote: See the dps graph below. The ferox loaded with anti-matter, your brutix loaded with plutonium. You are ignoring the RANGE bonus on the hull and looking at only the numbers. I am not ignoring the range bonus. With the range bonus the Ferox has approximately the same damage for the same range as the Brutix, and only when you don't factor in drones. This is two skill bonuses on the Ferox matching one skill bonus on the Brutix, except the Brutix goes even further and has bigger drones. How can you not see it? You even graphed it! FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2536	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:43:05 - [54] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Better damage projection than Ferox due to larger number of low slots, and tank isn't that much worse. I'm not saying I would choose Brutix over Ferox for a shield fleet, but I am saying the Brutix can be shield fleeted. Translation of your argument : The Ferox needs a buff because I can make a sub-par fleet fit out of a Brutix.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:46:23 - [55] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Translation of your argument : The Ferox needs a buff because I can make a sub-par fleet fit out of a Brutix. Sub-par? It matched, and that's both being shieldfleet-fit. The Ferox had 18% more EHP while the Brutix had 17% more DPS, and the Brutix is an armor-tanking solo ship. I didn't just show the Ferox is underpowered, I blew it out of the water. The Ferox is absurdly underpowered compared to the Brutix, even so much that the Brutix can often match the Ferox in its own role despite not even being a shield or a fleet ship. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2536	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:50:24 - [56] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Translation of your argument : The Ferox needs a buff because I can make a sub-par fleet fit out of a Brutix. Sub-par? It matched, and that's both being shieldfleet-fit. The Ferox had 18% more EHP while the Brutix had 17% more DPS, and the Brutix is an armor-tanking solo ship. I didn't just show the Ferox is underpowered, I blew it out of the water. The Ferox is absurdly underpowered compared to the Brutix, even so much that the Brutix can often match the Ferox in its own role despite not even being a shield or a fleet ship. And that's why we see people fly fleet of Feroxes and not Brutix. because the Brutix Reaver Glitterstim wrote: blew it out of the water. right.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 20:55:18 - [57] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: And that's why we see people fly fleet of Feroxes and not Brutix. because the Brutix Reaver Glitterstim wrote: blew it out of the water. right. I've been playing in nullsec quite a bit lately and I really have not been seeing any Ferox fleets but once again as we have already explained repeatedly, the Ferox is better oriented toward shield fleets than the Brutix is. It could be underpowered and still be more commonly chosen for a role that fits it better than the Brutix does. So far all you guys are doing is ignoring my argument and deflecting it with statements that ignore the core point: the Ferox is underpowered overall when compared with the Brutix or Harbinger. Shall we start comparing fits that the Brutix is designed for? Because I guarantee you the differences will not be so tiny as with these shieldfleet comparisons. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2536	Posted - 2016.01.28 21:02:55 - [58] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: And that's why we see people fly fleet of Feroxes and not Brutix. because the Brutix Reaver Glitterstim wrote: blew it out of the water. right. I've been playing in nullsec quite a bit lately and I really have not been seeing any Ferox fleets but once again as we have already explained repeatedly, the Ferox is better oriented toward shield fleets than the Brutix is. It could be underpowered and still be more commonly chosen for a role that fits it better than the Brutix does. So far all you guys are doing is ignoring my argument and deflecting it with statements that ignore the core point: the Ferox is underpowered overall when compared with the Brutix or Harbinger. Shall we start comparing fits that the Brutix is designed for? Because I guarantee you the differences will not be so tiny as with these shieldfleet comparisons. You are ignoring the important fact that IN GAME, the ferox IS getting used (Imperium for example had a ferox doctrine) which sure is a better testament of if a ship is properly balanced as opposed to number from EFT or word analysis of it's bonus without taking into account what really happen in the game. EVE player fly ships in 3 way, it's OP and we follow the bandwagon, it's balanced and use the right tool to do something or it's bad but we love it too much to stop flying it. The Ferox was a laughing stock until some changes were made so it sure it not a love affair.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2895	Posted - 2016.01.28 21:05:38 - [59] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: You are ignoring the important fact that IN GAME, the ferox IS getting used I'm not ignoring it. I live in nullsec and I'm not seeing it. Just because one alliance likes it doesn't mean it's getting used all over. I'd like to see some usage statistics on this one from CCP but until then it's your word against mine, and I really don't see any reason to believe that the Ferox is actually getting used very much for fleet PVP. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 732	Posted - 2016.01.28 21:23:13 - [60] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You are ignoring the important fact that IN GAME, the ferox IS getting used I'm not ignoring it. I live in nullsec and I'm not seeing it. Just because one alliance likes it doesn't mean it's getting used all over. I'd like to see some usage statistics on this one from CCP but until then it's your word against mine, and I really don't see any reason to believe that the Ferox is actually getting used very much for fleet PVP. Ferox https://zkillboard.com/ship/16227/top/ Brutix https://zkillboard.com/ship/16229/top/ Looks like Pandemic Horde/Legion are using them quite frequently. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

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