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Doctor Fruitloop	Posted - 2007.01.27 17:38:00 - [1] Peoples thoughts please? For some reason I dont like the idea of this OS when it demands more stuff and XP does things perfectly for me. Hell, it sounds like the suggestion of video clips will make it self destruct... [deliberate over exageration]. Although, what is all the new security whistles slapped onto it, I havent exactly needed to have much more security than norton provides for me and a decent firewall. Any particular reason I should jump at it, or is it akin to windows ME?....
Nautikus FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.27 18:59:00 - [2] Edited by: Nautikus on 27/01/2007 18:56:24 It's worth it when you build / buy your next PC so you know you can run it properly and all the bugs will be sorted out and drivers built for it. :) Eventually you will have to upgrade to Vista if you continue to use Windows. So to answer your question, no don't jump at it now, wait until you upgrade your PC and have the ability to use DX10. :D btw, contrary to posters soon to talk, Windows != Evil. Don't like the DRM? Don't use DRM content. It's simple. The fact that you can't watch a HD-DVD on a non-HD monitor is most definatly a reason to lambaste Windows and vow never to use it again Convo me for Sigs!
Basileus	Posted - 2007.01.27 19:37:00 - [3] Here's my view: For a program which only task it should be to govern different bits of hardware in a home computer setup, Vista demands a rediculous amount of resources. It's a bloody operating system for Pete's sake! It doesn't have to calculate a climate model for planet Venus for the next billion years, now does it?! The Vista test applet informs me that my machine barely meets minimum specs, and then happily informs me I can chuck just about half of my software in the bin. Errr... NO! I'm not buying bloody expensive updates, or even new versions of my already overpriced software thank you very much. Some competitors of Micro$oft say that M$ incorporates some highly disputed (in a legal sense) bits of software into Vista, ensuring that competitor software will not run well with Vista. Fair enough, the source of such info is doubtful. But I have no doubt, that M$ will once again try to corner the market, with every means possible, legal or not. They will also undoubtedly cancel support for XP after a while. So, in short: overpriced, over-demanding and utterly useless. They can stick their Vista some place the sun don't shine...
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.27 20:55:00 - [4] Originally by: Nautikus btw, contrary to posters soon to talk, Windows != Evil. Don't like the DRM? Don't use DRM content. It's simple. The fact that you can't watch a HD-DVD on a non-HD monitor is most definatly a reason to lambaste Windows and vow never to use it again Microsoft fanboi............. -----------------------------------------------
Hesod Adee Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.27 21:50:00 - [5] Assuming that my computer handles Vista without trouble, and ignoring the DRM complaints I still don't see what Vista offers to justify its price. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.27 23:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Hesod Adee Assuming that my computer handles Vista without trouble, and ignoring the DRM complaints I still don't see what Vista offers to justify its price. Pretty compositing window manager. The OpenGL based compositors (Quartz, Berl, Compiz) all seem to have much better performance in my experience. Strangely enough, nVidia drivers seem to be working better in Linux than Vista RTM (serious WTF here). --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.27 23:07:00 - [7] All the good features of Vista, with the exception of DX10, were cancelled. The fact that Vista is filled to the brim with DRM, to the point where it wastes MASSIVE amounts of processor power to encrypt all video between the CPU and the video card to stop you from viewing your own computer's data, is more than enough to ensure I don't buy it. I don't want an operating system that blurs any HD video unless I play it on an HDMI (read: 2000 dollars plus) monitor. I don't want an operating system that tells me what I can and cannot run on my own computer. An operating system is supposed to let me do more, not let me do less. And DX10 isn't even an issue--the folks at Wine say they should have a DX10 patch for Windows XP out within 6 months of Vista's release. The day Microsoft tries to make me upgrade to Vista is the day I switch fulltime to Linux. I haven't done it yet, and I would rather not, but if I'm forced to surrender control of my computer to a company that will tell me what I can and cannot do with my own hardware, I will not use their software, period. -[23] Member- Note: Dark Shikari will be away until Sunday.
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.01.28 09:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari All the good features of Vista, with the exception of DX10, were cancelled. The fact that Vista is filled to the brim with DRM, to the point where it wastes MASSIVE amounts of processor power to encrypt all video between the CPU and the video card to stop you from viewing your own computer's data, is more than enough to ensure I don't buy it. I don't want an operating system that blurs any HD video unless I play it on an HDMI (read: 2000 dollars plus) monitor. I don't want an operating system that tells me what I can and cannot run on my own computer. An operating system is supposed to let me do more, not let me do less. And DX10 isn't even an issue--the folks at Wine say they should have a DX10 patch for Windows XP out within 6 months of Vista's release. The day Microsoft tries to make me upgrade to Vista is the day I switch fulltime to Linux. I haven't done it yet, and I would rather not, but if I'm forced to surrender control of my computer to a company that will tell me what I can and cannot do with my own hardware, I will not use their software, period. Ok ds, I have a question that will test your computer and knowledge-fu to the limit (no I will not ask if you want any toast, red dwarf ftw). I am a Linux noob as it stands, is it worth me starting with linux now rather than waiting for XP support to be cancelled before I change over? Lets see if my sig can survive this round of *****ing There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy!!!11
TheFirstInquisitor	Posted - 2007.01.28 18:00:00 - [9] So it would be better for me to get a mid spec system, costing less and being more reliable (read trustworthy, i heard about a White House/FBI backdoor) than a high spec system and slap Vista on it and it runs craptactularly. Sounds to me like Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot or taking so much funding from Hollywood to subsidise the loss of proffits from actual sales of Vista?... Just me, or can anyone see a few other OS doing much better than Vista in the new year? Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross.
Nautikus FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Nautikus on 28/01/2007 19:02:14 Heh, people who refuse to use Microsoft products because they are evil, non-open source, or just because they make massive money off their products are the minority. Sure, people will start using Linux and MacOS, but the amount switching over isn't a huge amount thats going to bring Microsoft to it's knees. Majority of the people want something that just works, and does what they need. People want to play games with out the hassle and frustration of using programs like WINE and dealing with less performance and more bugs because its not native. Even with that said, a lot of users have been around the block on computers don't really care. Window's is simply the best choice for what majority of the users want to do. Be it gaming, to word processing. The world runs on Windows. But, people will go to Linux and Mac but the majority will be Windows. To the users who switch because of DRMs or because its Windows I say, Enjoy WINE. Btw, my opinion is no way biased. Used Apple for just as long as Windows and even had a Linux box. Convo me for Sigs!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:07:00 - [11] Originally by: ThaMa Gebir Originally by: Dark Shikari All the good features of Vista, with the exception of DX10, were cancelled. The fact that Vista is filled to the brim with DRM, to the point where it wastes MASSIVE amounts of processor power to encrypt all video between the CPU and the video card to stop you from viewing your own computer's data, is more than enough to ensure I don't buy it. I don't want an operating system that blurs any HD video unless I play it on an HDMI (read: 2000 dollars plus) monitor. I don't want an operating system that tells me what I can and cannot run on my own computer. An operating system is supposed to let me do more, not let me do less. And DX10 isn't even an issue--the folks at Wine say they should have a DX10 patch for Windows XP out within 6 months of Vista's release. The day Microsoft tries to make me upgrade to Vista is the day I switch fulltime to Linux. I haven't done it yet, and I would rather not, but if I'm forced to surrender control of my computer to a company that will tell me what I can and cannot do with my own hardware, I will not use their software, period. Ok ds, I have a question that will test your computer and knowledge-fu to the limit (no I will not ask if you want any toast, red dwarf ftw). I am a Linux noob as it stands, is it worth me starting with linux now rather than waiting for XP support to be cancelled before I change over? I would not suggest to anyone new to Linux that they switch immediately and completely until they know for sure that they do not need any programs that do not have a Linux equivalent. Steps to trying out Linux: 1. Download and burn the latest Ubuntu LiveCD. I recommend at least 256 MB of RAM, preferably 512MB or more. 2. Boot up computer with the CD. Try out the OS, get a feel for it. 3. When you're ready, create an extra partition on your drive (I believe Gparted, an included free graphical partition manager, allows you to resize your current one) and install the operating system. I'd recommend a 2GB swap partition and at least 5GB for the OS. The OS itself doesn't need nearly that much, but as the partition is the root drive of the OS, it will also include all libraries and programs that you install on it. 10GB or more is highly recommended. Also note that you can access any FAT32 drive with both read and write access from within Linux pretty much guaranteed. So, if you want a drive to use as a shared data drive for Linux and Windows (music, movies, etc) use FAT32. Finally, by default, you will have read but not write access to NTFS drives. Recently, a new user-level driver called "NTFS-3G" has come out that allows full-speed read/write access to NTFS drives. As this is not a kernel-level driver, you'll have to download it separately. -[23] Member- Note: Dark Shikari will be away until Sunday.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:23:00 - [12] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/01/2007 19:21:25 4. Have fun with the package manager. Once you enable the full list of repositories, you'll have access to tens of thousands of free programs which can be installed in a single click or command. In command-line, its even faster: "sudoapt-get install packagename" installs a package from scratch, including all dependencies: no crappy wizard installation or anything like that. Sudo just gives you admin powers for that particular command, as you need them to install a program. "sudo apt-get update" and then "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" will update every single program on your entire computer automatically. 5. Figure out how to do everything you do in Windows. This is important; if you can't, then clearly you can't switch without sacrificing something. Some examples: (Note: Some Linux-based programs on this list are better, others merely comparable, and a few generally considered less effective.) Internet Explorer -> Firefox/Opera/Galeon/Konqueror Microsoft Word -> Openoffice/Abiword Notepad -> Gedit/Kedit/VI/Emacs Adobe Premiere -> Cinelerra Photoshop -> The GIMP Windows Media Player -> Mplayer/VLC/Xine Virtualdub -> Mencoder 6. Have fun with the terminal. For terminal commands, some are similar and some aren't. DIR -> LS DEL/DELETE -> RM CD -> CD MKDIR -> MKDIR However, unlike Windows, the commands are usually more user-friendly and accept far greater varieties of options and wildcards. This is because Linux was originally built around the terminal, and has always kept this legacy. Windows is very clunky by comparison. Linux has thousands more commands, from grep to chmod, that as far as I know have no comparison in Windows at all. And if all else fails, putting --help after a command will almost always tell you how to use it. 7. Have fun with compiling. Linux is built to be easy to compile from scratch. If you don't want to, you'll never have to do any compiling, but just the versatility of it all is amazing. And you can have tons of fun optimizing programs using all sorts of interesting compiling flags. For any program in Linux, all you have to do to compile it is: a. Download the tarball of the source code. This is usually Gzipped (fast, low compression) or Bzip2ed (slow, high compression). b. tar -xvf filename will unzip the source code. Note that tab will autocomplete the filename, so you don't need to type the whole thing. c. cd into the directory. Type "./configure". This seemingly magical program will automatically figure out everything about your system, and configure the compiler to make the program exactly so it will work on your system flawlessly. A ./configure program exists for nearly every platform imaginable, allowing the most complex of programs to be compiled for basically any computer as long as a compiler exists for it. d. Type "make". This also seemingly magical command will go through every single source file in the directory, recursively, and compile and link everything together to create the final program. Automatically. e. Type "make install". This will install the program. If you want to change any options, its very friendly. For example, typing ./configure --help will tell you all sorts of options and the like, and how to use them. For example, --prefix=/path/path/whatever/ will install the program into that directory instead of the regular one, so that you could compile and test something out without installing it into your main programs directory. Another massively useful command is "man". Type "man anything" where anything is any program installed on your computer. It will give you a full description, often pages long, of exactly what the program does and how to use it. This is where the phrase "RTFM" came from. -[23] Member- Note: Dark Shikari will be away until Sunday.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:39:00 - [13] Now we're really getting into the core of why people use Linux. Its not just another operating system; it has a number of features (that in many cases it shares with other similar operating systems, like BSD) that Windows has nothing remotely close to. Some examples, other than the ones mentioned before: a. Symbolic links. This means being able to link a file to another and place the link in a directory, so that a program, when viewing the link, acts as if it is an actual file. Windows has these for directories, but not files, and as a result has massive issues with the so-called "DLL hell." Linux, however, makes great use of these, and I'm sure you can come up with some cool ideas too. For example, imagine creating a RAMdrive and symbolically linking the most-used EVE .stuff files from the EVE directory to the drive. Suddenly EVE will run much, much faster. b. Multiple window managers. Windows only has one, which can be modified at the cost of a lot of system resources uses programs like Samurize or WindowBlinds. Linux has tons, from the more standard, Windows-like Gnome and KDE to the fancy but effective Enlightenment and the blindingly fast and very visually clean Fluxbox. Ubuntu is built to use Gnome. You can switch, technically, but AFAIK it requires some effort. Kubuntu uses KDE, and Xubuntu uses XFCE. There are also some unofficial Ubuntu distributions that include other window managers. c. SSH is a beautiful command. Using it, you can connect to any other Linux machine running an SSH server and use it remotely to do whatever you are allowed to do by the owner of the. But the -Y (capital letter) is what makes it truly awesome. You can run graphical programs in the terminal on the other computer, but the windows will appear on your screen! This allows you to run anything on another computer without the massive network and CPU overhead of a complicated remote desktop program. d. Better file systems. FAT32 and NTFS are, to put it pretty simply, horrible. NTFS was an advance over the ancient FAT architecture, but I mean, it still needs to be defragmented! Linux file systems haven't needed this for a decade. Reiser4 is particularly good, being able to write tons of small files (read: EVE cache, temporary files, thousands of source code files, etc) tens if not hundreds of times faster than NTFS. And imagine this: if your entire partition is corrupted, every single file whose data survived can be recovered with a free program. That means that losing just a few clusters won't mean the end of your data; merely whatever was on those few clusters. There is far more that I'm not mentioning: Linux is an incredible operating system with some features that Windows can only dream of. It has weaknesses, and certainly some incompatibilities (I'm glaring at you, ATI, and your horrible Linux drivers!), but in raw capability it makes Windows look like a toy tricycle. Don't wipe your Windows drive until are sure you really don't need it anymore. You may find yourself installing it to run a program you don't have for Linux. Even seemingly popular programs sometimes have issues; Adobe chose not to release Flash 8 for Linux, instead skipping to 9. This created a pretty long gap in which a good deal of Flash content was not available under Linux. The Flash 9 beta is out now though, so that is resolved. -[23] Member- Note: Dark Shikari will be away until Sunday.
Heljarsnadi Elastic Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Doctor Fruitloop Although, what is all the new security whistles slapped onto it, I havent exactly needed to have much more security than norton provides for me and a decent firewall. When Microsoft says "Security", what they really mean is "Wresting control of your own computer from you, to us, so we can make sure that you don't do anything "insecure" (listen to mp3s, download anything, watch movies, use non-MS programs, etc)
Vari Carbide Industries	Posted - 2007.01.29 23:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Dark Shikari And DX10 isn't even an issue--the folks at Wine say they should have a DX10 patch for Windows XP out within 6 months of Vista's release. Bless the souls of the folks at Wine, but I'd rather they spend that time and get it to work well with Linux! Bye bye cruel world/Microsoft!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.29 23:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Vari Originally by: Dark Shikari And DX10 isn't even an issue--the folks at Wine say they should have a DX10 patch for Windows XP out within 6 months of Vista's release. Bless the souls of the folks at Wine, but I'd rather they spend that time and get it to work well with Linux! Bye bye cruel world/Microsoft! They're pretty related. A wrapper for Linux would directly lead to a wrapper for Windows, and vice versa. They're basically having to treat Windows XP as another operating system, as they do Linux, from what I've heard. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Sharcy Sonnema	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Shikari The fact that Vista is filled to the brim with DRM, to the point where it wastes MASSIVE amounts of processor power to encrypt all video between the CPU and the video card to stop you from viewing your own computer's data, is more than enough to ensure I don't buy it. Do you know this for a fact? How big is the DRM issue, anyone have any experience yet with the cons of this? Is it conceivable that *****ers can patch this out? --
elFarto New Order Industries	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Sharcy Do you know this for a fact? How big is the DRM issue, anyone have any experience yet with the cons of this? Is it conceivable that ***ers can patch this out? Read this. The chances of it being patched out is quite low I think. Regards elFarto NPC database Mal:** This is your captain speaking. We're having some technical difficulties, so we may experience some turbulence, and then explode.
Invader Skooge Minmatar Dopehead Industries	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:57:00 - [19] ok, my opinion on vista is very good, i have had the full business release running since we got it at work through Volume Licensing, its running on my laptop which is a Dell Inspiron 1300 Intel Celeron M - 1.5Ghz 1GB DDR2 Ram Intel Extreme Graphics set i havent come across 1 problem so far, except it take maybe 30seconds to turn on in the morning all my programs run fine, i havent got a clue what everyone means about HDMI bluring, surly its pointless watching HDMI anyway if you dont have the visual output unit for it anyway, but even the HD trailer from apple ect. all work perfect. EVE runs faster on this laptop since Vista got installed to. Before everyone also jumps into calling my a Microsoft Fanboy, i would also like to point out that i have Linux installed on 2 of the 4 PCs in my house, and do prefer it to Microsoft products. The other annoing problem i have is the fact my USB pen drive doesn't work anymore on my laptop...but that might be something to do with a washing machine incident and my jeans pocket _______________________________________________ -Behind This Mask There Is More Than Flesh, Behind This Mask Is An Idea Mr. Creedy...And Ideas Are Bulletproof-
Sharcy Sonnema	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:58:00 - [20] Originally by: elFarto Read this. Holy flying f***... I foresee more court action for M$... --
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Sharcy Originally by: elFarto Read this. Holy flying f***... I foresee more court action for M$... Exactly. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Crumplecorn Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.30 12:51:00 - [22] Dual-Boot with XP FTW TBH. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 13:20:00 - [23] Originally by: elFarto Originally by: Sharcy Do you know this for a fact? How big is the DRM issue, anyone have any experience yet with the cons of this? Is it conceivable that *****ers can patch this out? Read this. The chances of it being patched out is quite low I think. Regards elFarto -----------------------------------------------
Kari Kayira Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.30 14:51:00 - [24] Oh my goodness, this is just all ridiculous. Microsoft has truly outdone themselves this time. Might as well make it so Vista has to phone home to "daddy" before it can even boot up.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.30 15:09:00 - [25] "Eventually" for me means "when there's no way I can use XP anymore". I hate Vista really. You get a few fancy gadgets and shiney things that OS X has had for years, and in return you hand over a large portion of your control over your computer to Microsoft and the content industry's lackeys. Take the built in anti-virus/spyware program Windows Defender for instance. Not only does it delete High or Severe rated things automatically (even if it's a false positive like you sometimes get with legitimate software), it even has a clause in the fine print that says it will 'remove any other unwanted applications'. What's unwanted? That's for Microsoft to decide. Their idea seems to be to shield stupid people from messing up their computers, except it also restricts people who know what they're doing in the process. And it's illegal to circumvent any of these idiot traps. No thanks. Aero Glass will get old after a couple weeks, the DRM and restrictions will continue to annoy you forever.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.30 15:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Crumplecorn Dual-Boot with XP FTW TBH. Triboot with Edgy Eft and WinXP FTW2. Though I haven't booted into Vista for a month... I wonder if it even still boots... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson*
Jr Grae Gallente House 0f Shadows	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:11:00 - [27] Edited by: Jr Grae on 30/01/2007 16:08:40 Edited by: Jr Grae on 30/01/2007 16:08:09 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Sharcy Originally by: elFarto Read this. Holy flying f***... I foresee more court action for M$... Exactly. ^That crap is unbelievable, I havn't heard of any of it till now^ Looks like I might also be moving on to a different OS. BS imho.
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:11:00 - [28] im not buying something that will lose me preformance in everything i run kthx
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:26:00 - [29] Anyone got any good tips for a Linux distro which will allow me to play EVE? I don't have extensive Linux knowledge, but I'm not a computer noob and I learn pretty quickly... Gentoo? PCLinuxOS? Ubuntu? Kubuntu? I have an AMD 64 with an Nvidia 6800gt graphics card and a (shiver) Netgear wireless adapter. I tried Gentoo a few years ago, and I really like that you could personalize everything, it just turned out that I spent more time getting that OS to work than actually working with the OS _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:29:00 - [30] i dont get it why some people actually is going to give microsoft money for vista wich is slower then XP in all regards but also blocks basically anything it or MPAA or RIAA considers that it might be not bought from them. vista is so ladened with DRM crap that its silly. the extra slowdown mainly comes from the encryprion on all video output and other encryption stuff that takes alot of processing power. i think that a vista free of all the encryption DRM crap would propably run 30% faster then winXP. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent? Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
Velsharoon Gallente Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:54:00 - [31] I have read the thread and Im reading articles linked. Im probably taking a year out after this semester to work full time and prepare for a masters...and ofc be able to afford a sexy DX10 machine. And now im a sad panda...as I dont want Vista on my computer just to run shiny games. Im also one of those guys who dont care about shiney operating systems or their pretty desktops...I just want to listen to music, dl ** and play games. What the ** is wrong with MS :/ I would switch to Linux but im a moron and dont want hassle grrr
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 18:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Velsharoon I have read the thread and Im reading articles linked. Im probably taking a year out after this semester to work full time and prepare for a masters...and ofc be able to afford a sexy DX10 machine. And now im a sad panda...as I dont want Vista on my computer just to run shiny games. Im also one of those guys who dont care about shiney operating systems or their pretty desktops...I just want to listen to music, dl ** and play games. What the ** is wrong with MS :/ I would switch to Linux but im a moron and dont want hassle grrr Yah? -----------------------------------------------
Core Bash REQUIEM INC. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.30 19:49:00 - [33] Honestly, I've been running Vista Business for a week now and I have virtually no complaints. I haven't run into any DRM problems, and it's nice to be running some desktop/visual enhancements that aren't 3rd party. Besides, someone just figured out how to circumvent all the DRM. Check slashdot. _
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.30 20:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Core Bash Honestly, I've been running Vista Business for a week now and I have virtually no complaints. I haven't run into any DRM problems, and it's nice to be running some desktop/visual enhancements that aren't 3rd party. Besides, someone just figured out how to circumvent all the DRM. Check slashdot. The DRM circumvention is an illegal hack of the operating system. If the guy posted it to the internet, he'd get sued to the ground in a heartbeat. I don't want to have to rely on breaking the law to control my own computer. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Ciphero Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.30 21:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Nautikus btw, contrary to posters soon to talk, Windows != Evil. Don't like the DRM? Don't use DRM content. It's simple. The fact that you can't watch a HD-DVD on a non-HD monitor is most definatly a reason to lambaste Windows and vow never to use it again Microsoft fanboi............. I do hope you're joking. I'm no fan of MS (especially where DRM is concerned), but a response like that to a pretty balanced comment is exactly what the non-Windows community doesn't need to enhance its image.
Eclipsen413 Gallente The Last Ravens	Posted - 2007.01.30 21:51:00 - [36] i dont want to pay $200 for a new os that doesnt even do what i want it to, and i really hope someone makes a dx10 hack or sumthin for winxp so i can use my new Geforce 8800GTX
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.02 10:21:00 - [37] DS, I will thank you very much for the help and advice. You have made the decision for me to use my new spare computer for linux with a ubuntu build. Awesome writeup. Appreciated. Lets see if my sig can survive this round of *****ing There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy!!!11
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.02 10:53:00 - [38] Originally by: ThaMa Gebir DS, I will thank you very much for the help and advice. You have made the decision for me to use my new spare computer for linux with a ubuntu build. Awesome writeup. Appreciated. Woot, welcome to the wonderful world of Linux It will take a while, it will get frustrating.. but in the end you will get there. Buy books for help and ask on forums, most people generally help. My current rig has a HD for XP and one for Linux.. My new rig will pretty much be the same.. just the sod is I cant use my old HD's(Finally entering the world of SATA HD's, so that tells you how old my PC is!), change the hardware you need a new install for XP OEM. -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:17:00 - [39] Originally by: ThaMa Gebir DS, I will thank you very much for the help and advice. You have made the decision for me to use my new spare computer for linux with a ubuntu build. Awesome writeup. Appreciated. The best thing about Ubuntu is that using a LiveCD you can try whatever you want without installing a thing. You're limited only by the amount of RAM you have. Obviously you also can't install anything that requires a reboot, so you can't upgrade the kernel I would think. But that's about the only limitation -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Vladimir Ilych Gradient	Posted - 2007.02.02 12:44:00 - [40] Yay! Another VISTA thread. As posted before. I am running Vista x64 Enterprise. I do have a high spec dual core machine. Vista runs fine. Eve runs fine. Everything works fine. UAC is annoying but can be turned off. It found all my drivers. No Lunix distro has managed that on any PC i tried them on. VISTA updated my NVIDIA driver automatically with the latest version. Only one program I have loaded thus far has failed to work. That is my experience. If you haven't used it please be quiet.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.02 12:57:00 - [41] Windows XP Pro + Litestep > Vista
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:05:00 - [42] Windows Vista ate my baby ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: ThaMa Gebir DS, I will thank you very much for the help and advice. You have made the decision for me to use my new spare computer for linux with a ubuntu build. Awesome writeup. Appreciated. The best thing about Ubuntu is that using a LiveCD you can try whatever you want without installing a thing. You're limited only by the amount of RAM you have. Obviously you also can't install anything that requires a reboot, so you can't upgrade the kernel I would think. But that's about the only limitation Aye granted however I figure that the computer I will have (when I get the new one for XP) will be completely free to use and screw up like there is no tomorrow, thus it will be my guinea pig. All good and I like to play. Lets see if my sig can survive this round of *****ing There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy!!!11
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:41:00 - [44] Originally by: Ciphero btw, contrary to posters soon to talk, Windows != Evil. Don't like the DRM? Don't use DRM content. It's simple. The fact that you can't watch a HD-DVD on a non-HD monitor is most definatly a reason to lambaste Windows and vow never to use it again You can't just ignore DRM that way. You'll be hit with Vista's DRM problems even if you never install it. That's because Microsoft's hardware certification imposes requirements that greatly increase the cost to design and build hardware, and that price will be passed on to the consumer. Thus, it doesn't matter if you don't use and HD-DVD. It doesn't matter if you never illegally copy a movie. It doesn't matter if you never install Vista at all. The increased hardware costs will still hit you. The only way I see this not happening is if Vista gains little market share and Windows overall loses significant market share to some alternative (I don't care if that alternative is Linux or Apple or something else). Vista's benefits are in the "kinda cool" range. It's costs are skyhigh for reasons that may not be apparent just from installing and using it for a few days. I've been out of "Linux Zealot" stage for a while now. I didn't particularly care what people used. I have my Gentoo system customized just the way I like it, and get most of my real work done on it. Outside of gaming, what happened in Windows didn't affect me, and I stopped caring if Linux took away its desktop market share. No more. The increased hardware costs will affect me even if I don't install Vista. As far as I'm concerned, the Windows world didn't keep its side of the bargain to let me work in peace. Time to bring back the zealotry.
FooB2 Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 16:49:00 - [45] Originally by: R'adeh Anyone got any good tips for a Linux distro which will allow me to play EVE? I don't have extensive Linux knowledge, but I'm not a computer noob and I learn pretty quickly... Gentoo? PCLinuxOS? Ubuntu? Kubuntu? I have an AMD 64 with an Nvidia 6800gt graphics card and a (shiver) Netgear wireless adapter. I tried Gentoo a few years ago, and I really like that you could personalize everything, it just turned out that I spent more time getting that OS to work than actually working with the OS OPENSuSE 10.2, which is the current version, i have personally had EVE running on via cedega (ill see if i can find my screenshots of this later) with an approximate loss of 5-10 FPS compared to running on XP (on the same mahcine, via dual-boot). Basically, they can all do it, providing you install Cedega on it and providing you set all your drivers up right. the reason i recommend SuSE is because YasT2 does all this for you, maybe with a little help from www.linuxquestions.org. As DS is no doubt about to rampantly post after mine saying Ubuntu can do everything SuSE can and better... it probably can. just my experience is with SuSE not (newer versions of) Ubuntu. im used to my traditional "su" commands and not "sudo". a superficial difference, but its just annoying when i try install something on ubuntu and i forget about sudo, and im there typing "su" in constantly shouting "WHY THE **** ARENT YOU LOGGING ME IN" Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:19:00 - [46] Originally by: FooB2 Originally by: R'adeh Anyone got any good tips for a Linux distro which will allow me to play EVE? I don't have extensive Linux knowledge, but I'm not a computer noob and I learn pretty quickly... Gentoo? PCLinuxOS? Ubuntu? Kubuntu? I have an AMD 64 with an Nvidia 6800gt graphics card and a (shiver) Netgear wireless adapter. I tried Gentoo a few years ago, and I really like that you could personalize everything, it just turned out that I spent more time getting that OS to work than actually working with the OS OPENSuSE 10.2, which is the current version, i have personally had EVE running on via cedega (ill see if i can find my screenshots of this later) with an approximate loss of 5-10 FPS compared to running on XP (on the same mahcine, via dual-boot). Basically, they can all do it, providing you install Cedega on it and providing you set all your drivers up right. the reason i recommend SuSE is because YasT2 does all this for you, maybe with a little help from www.linuxquestions.org. As DS is no doubt about to rampantly post after mine saying Ubuntu can do everything SuSE can and better... it probably can. just my experience is with SuSE not (newer versions of) Ubuntu. im used to my traditional "su" commands and not "sudo". a superficial difference, but its just annoying when i try install something on ubuntu and i forget about sudo, and im there typing "su" in constantly shouting "WHY THE **** ARENT YOU LOGGING ME IN" Nah, SUSE is fine; heck it probably has newer packages considering the way Debian packaging works. By the way, sudo -s -H I believe logs you into root under Ubuntu. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Shikari By the way, sudo -s -H I believe logs you into root under Ubuntu. sudo -s starts a shell as the targetted user, using the current environment (just like the su command, by default its root). sudo -i will act as though you've actually just logged in as root, using root's launching root's default shell, loading any environmental settings and switching directory to /root (assuming you haven't changed that). Using sudo for superuser access has started to become the norm for "desktop" operating systems. OSX, Vista, Ubuntu and several other "user friendly" distros disable the administrator/root account and place "power users" or whatever nonlimited accounts are called on the sudoers list. UAC in vista is exactly like sudo - the problem is that permissions are rather screwed up in most windows operations and require root to lots of things that a proper unix style system would not require root for. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.02 18:35:00 - [48] The best thing about Vista is that if you sell the 1 package OEM version you don't have to give support on it! You Will Cry My Name
FooB2 Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.03 04:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: FooB2 Originally by: R'adeh Anyone got any good tips for a Linux distro which will allow me to play EVE? I don't have extensive Linux knowledge, but I'm not a computer noob and I learn pretty quickly... Gentoo? PCLinuxOS? Ubuntu? Kubuntu? I have an AMD 64 with an Nvidia 6800gt graphics card and a (shiver) Netgear wireless adapter. I tried Gentoo a few years ago, and I really like that you could personalize everything, it just turned out that I spent more time getting that OS to work than actually working with the OS OPENSuSE 10.2, which is the current version, i have personally had EVE running on via cedega (ill see if i can find my screenshots of this later) with an approximate loss of 5-10 FPS compared to running on XP (on the same mahcine, via dual-boot). Basically, they can all do it, providing you install Cedega on it and providing you set all your drivers up right. the reason i recommend SuSE is because YasT2 does all this for you, maybe with a little help from www.linuxquestions.org. As DS is no doubt about to rampantly post after mine saying Ubuntu can do everything SuSE can and better... it probably can. just my experience is with SuSE not (newer versions of) Ubuntu. im used to my traditional "su" commands and not "sudo". a superficial difference, but its just annoying when i try install something on ubuntu and i forget about sudo, and im there typing "su" in constantly shouting "WHY THE **** ARENT YOU LOGGING ME IN" Nah, SUSE is fine; heck it probably has newer packages considering the way Debian packaging works. By the way, sudo -s -H I believe logs you into root under Ubuntu. afaik you just ask someone on linuxquestions what the URL is for the update and just replace it with the URL thats already set for YasT2 to download its pacakges on. select all and set it going. come back some time later and voila, a system that works with everything installed including GFX drivers, audio drivers(if they werent already in), W32Codecs and pretty much any other propriety (sp, im currently very very drunnk) stuff that doesnt come with opensuse. after than, all you have to do is "sh /%path%/cedega.sh" (or whatever the file is), click OK a couple of times then open the eve installer .exe in cedega. 10 minutes and possibly a client update later, you're playing eve like it was on windows. Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K
Rift Scorn Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.03 11:55:00 - [50] Edited by: Rift Scorn on 03/02/2007 11:59:46 omg! 1st after f00b's second post!! On a relatively serious note. I'm pretty much a PC noob. I dunno what DRM is or OEM. There seems to be a lot of hating MS and i squarley fall into the category of casual end user. I've read the Tom's guide, and it was pretty interesting. I've got a 2.4 Intell, with 1GB DDR and an Nvidia 5900 Ultra card. So as anyone can tell this machines a bit dated now compared to what it was 3-4 years ago, but i just finished my degree and can't afford a new one yet until i A) pay back my student loan B) get paid enough to ful-fill A and save up enough pennies for a new machine. I installed just the Home Basic version of Vista, no whistles and bells, and although it was fun (to say the least!) finding a driver for an FX series card i've not really noticed a massive drop in performance. my UT is suffering a bit but i jsut figured that was new drivers not being well optimized to Vista yet? and no real drop in FPS in EvE. can any explain in basic 'i don't have a computer science's degree'/idiot's reason as to why it's bad? or at least throw me a few links that will explain it to meh. Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.03 12:13:00 - [51] Originally by: Rift Scorn can any explain in basic 'i don't have a computer science's degree'/idiot's reason as to why it's bad? or at least throw me a few links that will explain it to meh. DRM = Digital Rights Management, a euphamism for restrictions on the consumer in the name of "copy protection". For example, the fact that you can't use your iTunes music on a Zune is an effect of DRM. This kind of DRM is often used for monopolistic purposes, for obvious reasons. This website is somewhat long, but has good explanations (far better than I could do) for many of the reasons why Vista is bad. Plus your computer won't even run it that well, so for performance alone I'd recommend against it for you. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Rift Scorn Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.03 14:47:00 - [52] That's a low-tech answer enough for me!! cheers DS. I'll give that linkeh a read aswell. ta. Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03
Stickleback	Posted - 2007.02.03 16:55:00 - [53] After reading all this, I downloaded the Ubuntu live CD, had a play and thought it was worth making another partition and installing it properly dual booting it with windows for a while.... ...then I had a problem because I have a Promise FastTrak S150 TX2 RAID card, the only Linux drivers I seem to be able to find for it are here but they all seem to be exclusively for SUSE or Red Hat. I don't want to scrub the array, am I stuffed or is there a way around this? Or will these drivers work?
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.03 17:57:00 - [54] Edited by: hired goon on 03/02/2007 17:54:25 DS has won this thread. I actually got my dual-boot going with Kubuntu after hearing of Vista's twisted magicks. Would it be ok Dark, if I dropped you a convo or eve-mail at some point? I am learning the tux ropes but got a little flummoxed with WINE and still don't understand the konsole monster that well. As for cr@cking Vista - it's the only real way I'll ever use it. No way is Microsoft getting my money for this; infact I'm surprised they aren't paying people to go out of their way by having it on their system. For those of you that are worried any site posting Vista-cr@cking guides will be shut down (which is very likely), you might find something on Freenet - a kind of anonymous underground peer-to-peer internet that's totally encrypted. Try to avoid the pedophilia though lol. ...unless that's your bag. edit: wordfilterowned -omg-
Richard Masterson FW Inc Kith of Venal	Posted - 2007.02.03 19:22:00 - [55] I just installed Windows XP x64 and I love it. It's stupid fast. x64 initially got poor reviews because there was a lack of drivers available for hardware. By the time developers put them out, the buzz was about Vista, so no one mentioned the proper support that XP x64 has. I am now running 4 GB of RAM (take THAT, x86!) and have had zero trouble finding drivers. And to top that off, you can now pick up a copy of XP x64 for less than half the pre-Vista price. I got mine for about $140. I won't be upgrading (downgrading?) to Vista anytime soon. In fact, I'm thinking about partitioning my laptop's HDD and installing Linux. . .
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.03 19:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Stickleback After reading all this, I downloaded the Ubuntu live CD, had a play and thought it was worth making another partition and installing it properly dual booting it with windows for a while.... ...then I had a problem because I have a Promise FastTrak S150 TX2 RAID card, the only Linux drivers I seem to be able to find for it are here but they all seem to be exclusively for SUSE or Red Hat. I don't want to scrub the array, am I stuffed or is there a way around this? Or will these drivers work? Well you could try extracting the SUSE driver and installing it somehow hackily, or downloading and compiling the source. 'course you could also try SUSE. Its not bad at all. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
FooB2 Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 11:23:00 - [57] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Stickleback After reading all this, I downloaded the Ubuntu live CD, had a play and thought it was worth making another partition and installing it properly dual booting it with windows for a while.... ...then I had a problem because I have a Promise FastTrak S150 TX2 RAID card, the only Linux drivers I seem to be able to find for it are here but they all seem to be exclusively for SUSE or Red Hat. I don't want to scrub the array, am I stuffed or is there a way around this? Or will these drivers work? Well you could try extracting the SUSE driver and installing it somehow hackily, or downloading and compiling the source. 'course you could also try SUSE. Its not bad at all. i am to SuSE what DS is to ubuntu, a <nix> Fanboi. maybe minus a few "linux IQ points". in noobtastic terms, ive always found the best solution for dual booting was two seperate hard drives rather than partitions, because that way if something goes unexpectedly wrong, you can just disconnect the one you dont want buggered with and nothing can go wrong with it. i learned that the hard way. As for worrying about using SuSE over ubuntu, dont. to a noobular user, any distro is the same as the next, the only real difference is the way it physically looks. however, everything works in exactly the same way (well, instead of using sudo in terminal for ubtuntu, you type "su" then a password, then whatever you want to do). The default desktop eviroment for SuSE is KDE, which will look like THIS. this may be alright for you, but i dont personally like it. when you install the OS you can pick which ones you want to install, and then when you log into your desktop account you can choose which eviroment to use. Ubuntu uses GNOME (which i prefer, mainly because it looks far cooler and tidier) which looks like THIS. also, get an account at www.linuxquestions.org because its a site with a forum dedicated to solving all your troubles with any distro. regardless of how nubtastic the question may be. i think my first ever question to them was when i bought Mandrake 10 from ebay for 10p as i had a spare machine. this was years ago. i asked them what "su" did. what is wierd though, that was the first time id ever picked up a linux distro, and i got ATi drivers working on it, by myself no hassle. since then every single incarnation of linux that didnt do it for me i havent been able to install them on. i still to this day have no idea what i did, and i refuse to acknowledge that it was because Mandrake was "good". Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K
FooB2 Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 11:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Rift Scorn Edited by: Rift Scorn on 03/02/2007 11:59:46 omg! 1st after f00b's second post!! On a relatively serious note. I'm pretty much a PC noob. I dunno what DRM is or OEM. There seems to be a lot of hating MS and i squarley fall into the category of casual end user. I've read the Tom's guide, and it was pretty interesting. I've got a 2.4 Intell, with 1GB DDR and an Nvidia 5900 Ultra card. So as anyone can tell this machines a bit dated now compared to what it was 3-4 years ago, but i just finished my degree and can't afford a new one yet until i A) pay back my student loan B) get paid enough to ful-fill A and save up enough pennies for a new machine. I installed just the Home Basic version of Vista, no whistles and bells, and although it was fun (to say the least!) finding a driver for an FX series card i've not really noticed a massive drop in performance. my UT is suffering a bit but i jsut figured that was new drivers not being well optimized to Vista yet? and no real drop in FPS in EvE. can any explain in basic 'i don't have a computer science's degree'/idiot's reason as to why it's bad? or at least throw me a few links that will explain it to meh. as for this, if you use linux the "ladeez will think ur oober c00l coz ur cleva and use linux" but really, id say use it for performance issues. vista will excrete all over your currently hardware and it wont quit till you spend 4 grand on some already-obsolete hardware. i havent dont any kind of official learning in linux, i learned it the same way i, and everyone else here learned Windows. just install it and start using it. at this point, everyone has an old PC they used to play thier old games on (mine is currently my athlon 1.4 i used to play UT99 on). replace the now super-cheap parts you salvaged from it to put in your new machine and just go nuts. linux is like a MENSA puzzle. the complexity of it is actually its simplicity, but when you figure it out the ego kicks in and you feel super-brainy, and want to try every single MENSA puzzle around just to see how "brainy" you really are. by the time you've gone through a couple, you know enough to pick up the one you started with and go "why the hell was i so confused with this in the first place?" Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.04 12:49:00 - [59] Originally by: FooB2 Originally by: Rift Scorn Edited by: Rift Scorn on 03/02/2007 11:59:46 omg! 1st after f00b's second post!! On a relatively serious note. I'm pretty much a PC noob. I dunno what DRM is or OEM. There seems to be a lot of hating MS and i squarley fall into the category of casual end user. I've read the Tom's guide, and it was pretty interesting. I've got a 2.4 Intell, with 1GB DDR and an Nvidia 5900 Ultra card. So as anyone can tell this machines a bit dated now compared to what it was 3-4 years ago, but i just finished my degree and can't afford a new one yet until i A) pay back my student loan B) get paid enough to ful-fill A and save up enough pennies for a new machine. I installed just the Home Basic version of Vista, no whistles and bells, and although it was fun (to say the least!) finding a driver for an FX series card i've not really noticed a massive drop in performance. my UT is suffering a bit but i jsut figured that was new drivers not being well optimized to Vista yet? and no real drop in FPS in EvE. can any explain in basic 'i don't have a computer science's degree'/idiot's reason as to why it's bad? or at least throw me a few links that will explain it to meh. as for this, if you use linux the "ladeez will think ur oober c00l coz ur cleva and use linux" but really, id say use it for performance issues. vista will excrete all over your currently hardware and it wont quit till you spend 4 grand on some already-obsolete hardware. i havent dont any kind of official learning in linux, i learned it the same way i, and everyone else here learned Windows. just install it and start using it. at this point, everyone has an old PC they used to play thier old games on (mine is currently my athlon 1.4 i used to play UT99 on). replace the now super-cheap parts you salvaged from it to put in your new machine and just go nuts. linux is like a MENSA puzzle. the complexity of it is actually its simplicity, but when you figure it out the ego kicks in and you feel super-brainy, and want to try every single MENSA puzzle around just to see how "brainy" you really are. by the time you've gone through a couple, you know enough to pick up the one you started with and go "why the hell was i so confused with this in the first place?" I like the sound of that. Lets see if my sig can survive this round of *****ing Funny, i'm still here - Petwraith There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy!!!11
elFarto New Order Industries	Posted - 2007.02.04 19:46:00 - [60] Originally by: Stickleback After reading all this, I downloaded the Ubuntu live CD, had a play and thought it was worth making another partition and installing it properly dual booting it with windows for a while.... ...then I had a problem because I have a Promise FastTrak S150 TX2 RAID card, the only Linux drivers I seem to be able to find for it are here but they all seem to be exclusively for SUSE or Red Hat. I don't want to scrub the array, am I stuffed or is there a way around this? Or will these drivers work? I've just checked the version of the kernel I have here, 2.6.19.1, and there are drivers for the 'Promise SATA TX2/TX4', which look like they'll do the job. Not sure how the kernel is setup on that disc, I'll look into it. Regards elFarto NPC database Mal: This is your captain speaking. We're having some technical difficulties, so we may experience some turbulence, and then explode.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:51:00 - [61] About nVidia and support for VISTA: http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org/ [OMG! CURRENTLY RECRUITING!]
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.05 09:47:00 - [62] Maybe we can start a lil Linux army and hope that CCP see's there's a fair whack of Linux users and give us a client for Linux! Will keep dreaming -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
FooB2 Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:14:00 - [63] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Maybe we can start a lil Linux army and hope that CCP see's there's a fair whack of Linux users and give us a client for Linux! Will keep dreaming ive already seen a link at some point saying that this is already happening, although it wont be a true native as it will just be included with a standalone emulator built around Cider. Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K

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