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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
103
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Posted - 2016.02.06 17:31:54 -
[31] - Quote
I hope everyone eventually gets their feet back on the ground and realizes this injector/extractor thing is just a bad idea. As in all bad ideas the reasons it's bad are so numerous it's moot. Why it's a good idea? One or two...CCP has something (else) to sell. Players can juke the system. Putting the two plusses in boldfaced caps doesn't make them more than the negs.
I really couldn't believe it when I heard someone on a payroll actually dreamed this up and kept his/her job.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
688
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Posted - 2016.02.06 17:49:44 -
[32] - Quote
The problem with the "for the new player" angle is just how expensive these things are going to be. There is the inject aur price, then there is going to be the billions of isk price of the skills. New players simply aren't going to be able to afford it without buying plex.
It will help old players establish focused alts quickly though.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1244
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Posted - 2016.02.06 18:01:15 -
[33] - Quote
CCP remind me of Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory - and we all know what happened to him.
Concord Approved Trader
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9805
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Posted - 2016.02.06 18:51:21 -
[34] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:CCP remind me of Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory - and we all know what happened to him. Who's this 'we' to which you refer.
Half the people reading that don't even know who Willy Wonka is without using Google.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4645
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Posted - 2016.02.06 19:36:37 -
[35] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Rust Trucker wrote:I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow...
...I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high Pick door A or pick door B. You can only pick one, not both. If it doesn't provide the revenue CCP are seeking, then I'm sure they'll adjust the price. However, if I was crystal balling, I'd say this is only part of a larger revenue restructuring and that the game will move to a hybrid model, where people can subscribe and earn skillpoints as they sleep (like now), or play free but buy skillpoints from other players in order to gain levels. Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable.
Glad to see that i'm not the only one thinking that. Every since I saw a CCP developer happy with more activity in the server versus more population, things have been slowly falling into place so CCP can earn more money from players "doing stuff" than "entering the servers".
Monetizing activity is the key to the F2P door. And then, CCP just bought a oversized server to replace TQ2. If your neighbor changes his car for a bus, it's obvious that he plans to fill it. And nothing that CCP has said points at a chance of a surge in new players.
Yes, it's a hunch so far. Intuition in lieu of enough data. And the consequences would be so dramatic that I've been making up my mind for the first stage -F2Pdemographics. I don't want to think of the next stage, F2P burnout and death. That still is years away.
And maybe CCP will just not go F2P after all. Maybe the insufficent data hides a key to go back to population growth in some way I couldn't imagine.
But chances are low. Because any "magic key" CCP could have, would have been used 2 years ago when they ended up firing 20% of their employees.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1245
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Posted - 2016.02.06 19:50:19 -
[36] - Quote
I just wonder what "exciting new features" they might come up with next to shamelessly milk more cash out of the playerbase udders before the cow can yield no more.
Concord Approved Trader
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Memphis Baas
1054
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Posted - 2016.02.06 23:45:46 -
[37] - Quote
You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP?
Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking.
Examples:
- character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats
There's a whole thread of this. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
401
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Posted - 2016.02.07 00:02:28 -
[38] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this.
1 AUR cost to undock.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
447
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Posted - 2016.02.07 00:09:44 -
[39] - Quote
Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee.
I recently used hours for plex to start playing again in anticipation of the feature, id love to melt down one of my 100m sp characters and create a fresh new one with the skills i want, of course with a lower amount of sp due to drawbacks.
I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow but the prices they are asking are WAY too much. It cost over 800 bucks to transfer the skills from a 100m sp character.
I just thrown off now by this and my excitement about creating a new character with a nice chunk of skills ( that i spent years training myself ) is gone.
I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... Ohh poor you, LOL!
I'm just happy to know that their is someone in Eve who detests scrubs as much as I do. These prices should keep them from breeding like cockroaches all over the place in Eve.
Edit: nothing stopping you from working overtime.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33284
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Posted - 2016.02.07 06:55:47 -
[40] - Quote
I like my name, but I could go for the rename-for-AUR thing.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Morgan Agrivar
Agrivar Salvaging and Garbage Disposal
263
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Posted - 2016.02.07 08:40:47 -
[41] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I like my name, but I could go for the rename-for-AUR thing. Keep it, it is you.
Just something about me...
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2016.02.07 09:31:41 -
[42] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this. 1 AUR cost to undock.
no, there would be a new virtual currency for undocking
it will be sold in packages of 10 or 10000
And it will cost you 11 to undock
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4649
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Posted - 2016.02.07 10:00:14 -
[43] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this.
A next logical step would be unlimited trial without skill gain after the first 15 days. Skillpoints can be bought from the market, though. And then further ship classes could be unlocked for AUR. Or you could subscribe and gain full access.
It wouldn't be called a duck, but it would walk like a duck.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Soltys
64
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Posted - 2016.02.07 10:11:03 -
[44] - Quote
Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee.
I recently used hours for plex to start playing again in anticipation of the feature, id love to melt down one of my 100m sp characters and create a fresh new one with the skills i want, of course with a lower amount of sp due to drawbacks.
Not free - this feature should be seeded on the market for ISK. That would be fair in p2p game.
Seeding it in cash shop at price point that is equivalent to a cost of 20 plexes for transferring 35m sp bazaar character is just greedy stupidity.
Quote:I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP...
That would be closer to bazaar "standards" of high sp characters (as much as progressive price can ever be close to a flat one). But you know, CCP !
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Kiandoshia
Gambrini
2410
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Posted - 2016.02.07 10:18:53 -
[45] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this. 1 AUR cost to undock. no, there would be a new virtual currency for undocking it will be sold in packages of 10 or 10000 And it will cost you 11 41 to undock
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Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2016.02.07 10:39:51 -
[46] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:A next logical step would be unlimited trial without skill gain after the first 15 days. Skillpoints can be bought from the market, though.
Bingo. |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
176
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Posted - 2016.02.07 11:16:18 -
[47] - Quote
Even though I know that this feature is really popular with alot of my fellow pilots out there I don't want it period. I am happy for all of you, I really am, but I always like the of making a choice and getting stuck with the consequences. That it actually took time to get the skills needed to fly it right. Now, it feels like... blah, everybody with some cash is gonna be doped up on SP if I am understanding the mechanics right. As far as making it free because you pay a subscription. Absolutely not. It would be just a few 30mil SP players pushing their points left to right and back again. Total chaos! However, I am also very excited for all the new Eve Players who get jacked up on SP in their first 2 weeks of playing, fly some shine, and wander down in the wrong system, not knowing what to do.
Drops Mic
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Krevnos
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
55
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Posted - 2016.02.07 11:37:25 -
[48] - Quote
Tavari Minrathos wrote:just because you want them to be free, doesn't mean that they should be free.
Development time went into Skill extractors. testing time went into this.
Its an additional service that I'm thrilled to have in the game. And the price point is low enough that i expect to see this feature actually used.
In principle you would be correct, but there are two issues:
1. Development time for this would be laughably small.
2. CCP performing testing?? Are you on drugs?
3. It's a blatant money grab which CCP developed then tried (poorly) to sell by having their junior employees claim it would help new players. The reality of course is that it will help empty their pockets due to the illusion that EVE greatness is largely based on skill point acquisition. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1101
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Posted - 2016.02.07 11:40:49 -
[49] - Quote
moving SP shouldnt be possible at all. now you can do it for a decent fee. Stop complaining. |
Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence
68
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Posted - 2016.02.07 12:30:12 -
[50] - Quote
After figuring out how much injectors are going to cost, i decided if i do this, i am just going to make an SP alt and just pull SP off it and inject it. Rather than buy someone elses SP.
I would have to pay about $30 for 1.5 mil injectible SP. My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers... the ones that have earned 10s of millions of SP "the old fashion way" by saying we get a reduction in effectiveness while a noob gets full benefit when they have contributed little to nothing to this game.
Extractors are to high. They should 100-300 AUR each. I dont feel like this feature is going to get a lot of use. The cost vs benefit means only the richest of players are going to mess with it.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26856
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Posted - 2016.02.07 12:34:42 -
[51] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers. You're not being penalised, and loyalty is not a factor.
You choose to pay an age-scaled price that is set so that all comers will be disincentivised from using it en masse. A higher price per SP is needed to provide the same disincentive for a highly skilled character as it does for a low-skilled one.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1505
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Posted - 2016.02.07 13:19:33 -
[52] - Quote
Lol the entire point is to get more money out of the players
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1505
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Posted - 2016.02.07 13:20:47 -
[53] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Thorian Baalnorn wrote:My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers. You're not being penalised, and loyalty is not a factor. You choose to pay an age-scaled price that is set so that all comers will be disincentivised from using it en masse. A higher price per SP is needed to provide the same disincentive for a highly skilled character as it does for a low-skilled one.
No it was set so ccp could use the "it's for the new player" angle
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26862
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Posted - 2016.02.07 13:25:37 -
[54] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:No it was set so ccp could use the "it's for the new player" angle Well, yeah. Ok. Fair enough. The outcome is the same anyway. It's still not a way to penalise loyalty regardless.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence
69
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Posted - 2016.02.07 15:03:50 -
[55] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Thorian Baalnorn wrote:My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers. You're not being penalised, and loyalty is not a factor. You choose to pay an age-scaled price that is set so that all comers will be disincentivised from using it en masse. A higher price per SP is needed to provide the same disincentive for a highly skilled character as it does for a low-skilled one.
Loyalty is a factor to me and many others. This game runs on loyalty, AKA player retention. This deal allows the rich to skill up quickly while the poor has to skill up the old school way. So more money= much bigger advantage.
It didnt impact the difference between those than can spend a lot per month and those that couldnt with say plexes, because isk is not something you keep permanently. You gain isk with plexes and lose isk getting blown up. This however is permanent and that gives wealthier players a bigger advantage.
While i could afford to inject several times a month, the price is simply to high for the return i would get. Again this is mostly for rich players and at that rich new players. The cost should be the same for everyone, regardless of SP. I know people say well at higher levels you have a lot of core skills maxed and this helps newbs catch up. But at higher levels our training times are weeks and months, not minutes and hours. We gain very little by doing a month of training. A new player gains loads by doing a month of training.
Everyone should get the same amount of SP per injector whether you have 200k SP or 200 million sp and extractors should be 100-300 AUR. At the current price CCP is basically double dipping in our pockets since new subs will be created to gain SP and you basically pay another subs fee for extracting.
If you are buying these on the market you can expect them to cost 3/4 or so of a plex.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26865
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Posted - 2016.02.07 15:12:25 -
[56] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:Loyalty is a factor to me and many others. GǪbut has absolutely no bearing on game mechanics, and for good reason. It certainly doesn't affect how GǣpenalisedGǥ you are (mainly because you're not penalised at all). The difference you're seeing between the low-SP and the high-SP yields are a matter of balance, with a very specific end-state in mind: one of diminishing returns, which is how everything in EVE works.
Quote:While i could afford to inject several times a month, the price is simply to high for the return i would get. Good. Then it's working as it should.
Quote:Everyone should get the same amount of SP per injector whether you have 200k SP or 200 million sp and extractors should be 100-300 AUR. Why? The whole point of the thing is to give new characters an extraordinarily stupid and expensive way to skip time. Why should old characters benefit from it at all, much less at equal rates?
Quote:At the current price CCP is basically double dipping in our pockets since new subs will be created to gain SP and you basically pay another subs fee for extracting. GǪand?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14012
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Posted - 2016.02.07 15:23:48 -
[57] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote: At the current price CCP is basically double dipping in our pockets since new subs will be created to gain SP and you basically pay another subs fee for extracting.
for the millionth time
-entirely optional-
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
291
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Posted - 2016.02.07 15:36:30 -
[58] - Quote
People actually CARE about SP injectors? I may buy one to drop off some crappy skills and put them into ISK. For large scale SP transfers, Character bazaar is still the way to go. That functions exactly how it did before. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25877
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Posted - 2016.02.07 16:40:34 -
[59] - Quote
Don't like it? Don't use it. Simples.
As others have repeatedly pointed out, it's an entirely optional mechanic and there is no disadvantage if you refuse to use it.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
914
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Posted - 2016.02.07 16:43:30 -
[60] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Funny how the yay sayers slowly start catching up to the fact that this is not about giving players the ability to move SP around.
On topic - making them free would only make it even worse and defeat the (true) purpose.
Making them cost isk would provide a massive isk sink AND not drive up the price of PLEX.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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