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Skill extractors should be free

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Rust Trucker The Digital Undead 0	Posted - 2016.02.06 02:19:42 - [1] - Quote We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. I recently used hours for plex to start playing again in anticipation of the feature, id love to melt down one of my 100m sp characters and create a fresh new one with the skills i want, of course with a lower amount of sp due to drawbacks. I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow but the prices they are asking are WAY too much. It cost over 800 bucks to transfer the skills from a 100m sp character. I just thrown off now by this and my excitement about creating a new character with a nice chunk of skills ( that i spent years training myself ) is gone. I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP...
Memphis Baas 1049	Posted - 2016.02.06 02:21:12 - [2] - Quote Yeah, they should just charge for the skill injectors, it makes more sense. 999 AUR to inject.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 593	Posted - 2016.02.06 02:25:18 - [3] - Quote Funny how the yay sayers slowly start catching up to the fact that this is not about giving players the ability to move SP around. On topic - making them free would only make it even worse and defeat the (true) purpose.
Maekchu Gunpoint Diplomacy 171	Posted - 2016.02.06 02:26:44 - [4] - Quote They should just pay me for spending my time, playing this game! Don't they know HOW MUCH MY TIME IS WORTH!? I demand CCP to reimburse all my money spent on this game, OTHERWISE I will unsubscribe my 21 accounts! DON'T TEST ME CCP!
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 44318	Posted - 2016.02.06 03:46:24 - [5] - Quote Rust Trucker wrote: I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow... ...I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high Pick door A or pick door B. You can only pick one, not both. If it doesn't provide the revenue CCP are seeking, then I'm sure they'll adjust the price. However, if I was crystal balling, I'd say this is only part of a larger revenue restructuring and that the game will move to a hybrid model, where people can subscribe and earn skillpoints as they sleep (like now), or play free but buy skillpoints from other players in order to gain levels. Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 9803	Posted - 2016.02.06 04:56:10 - [6] - Quote Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. And you pay extra for extra services such as character transfers. $20.00 or two PLEX. Extractors are an extra service. You don't need them to play. You get them because you are lazy and impatient to build your characters faster. They definitely shouldn't be free. That makes no sense. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33280	Posted - 2016.02.06 05:08:33 - [7] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Rust Trucker wrote: I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow... ...I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high Pick door A or pick door B. You can only pick one, not both. If it doesn't provide the revenue CCP are seeking, then I'm sure they'll adjust the price. However, if I was crystal balling, I'd say this is only part of a larger revenue restructuring and that the game will move to a hybrid model, where people can subscribe and earn skillpoints as they sleep (like now), or play free but buy skillpoints from other players in order to gain levels. Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable. Oh nice. Future F2P is an interesting angle. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33280	Posted - 2016.02.06 05:09:28 - [8] - Quote Although... what you call hybrid, I consider double dipping. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13536	Posted - 2016.02.06 05:09:37 - [9] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. And you pay extra for extra services such as character transfers. $20.00 or two PLEX. Extractors are an extra service. You don't need them to play. You get them because you are lazy and impatient to build your characters faster. They definitely shouldn't be free. That makes no sense. Mr Epeen That rust guy should be in-game shot for making me agree with the Peen. But this (the reaction to the pricing) is why I speak of entitlement . It doesn't matter to some that there is a reason something isn't free (free injectors would do nothing but increase to profits of folks who are going to farm and harvest SP, like I'm now considering doing), all that matters to them is what they want, and what they think others owe them, and damn the consequences.
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 627	Posted - 2016.02.06 05:19:07 - [10] - Quote Choices have consequences.... I like that its working as intended even here. You can spend time and effort making choices or pay a premium for instant gratification where the price is equivalent to the time and effort the other way. Imam: Have you heard anything I've said? Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? Imam: That's right. Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
Tavari Minrathos Honey Badgers R US 16	Posted - 2016.02.06 07:59:41 - [11] - Quote just because you want them to be free, doesn't mean that they should be free. Development time went into Skill extractors. testing time went into this. Its an additional service that I'm thrilled to have in the game. And the price point is low enough that i expect to see this feature actually used.
Joel Vaille 14th Legion The Bloc 2	Posted - 2016.02.06 08:02:59 - [12] - Quote They should pay me to use injectors. Come on these things aren't even expensive. I spent months training for bombers just for the missions to change on me and become impossible with even tech 2 launchers javs and a faction mwd. Now that's some bs. A little over 5$ for an extractor isn't that bad.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 4720	Posted - 2016.02.06 08:05:57 - [13] - Quote Your proposition OP Its outragous! CCP should pay us for playing the game. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Joel Vaille 14th Legion The Bloc 3	Posted - 2016.02.06 08:09:06 - [14] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Your proposition OP Its outragous! CCP should pay us for playing the game. Yea how else can I afford to play this game. Time=money. Ccplz
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 1077	Posted - 2016.02.06 09:19:22 - [15] - Quote Skill extractors should not be free. Skill extractors should not exist.
flakeys Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3245	Posted - 2016.02.06 09:45:47 - [16] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. And you pay extra for extra services such as character transfers. $20.00 or two PLEX. Extractors are an extra service. You don't need them to play. You get them because you are lazy and impatient to build your characters faster. They definitely shouldn't be free. That makes no sense. Mr Epeen That rust guy should be in-game shot for making me agree with the Peen. But this (the reaction to the pricing) is why I speak of entitlement . It doesn't matter to some that there is a reason something isn't free (free injectors would do nothing but increase to profits of folks who are going to farm and harvest SP, like I'm now considering doing), all that matters to them is what they want, and what they think others owe them, and damn the consequences. Problem is people usually see it as a 'need to aquire' not a 'luxury to aquire'. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Dibz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2016.02.06 12:24:03 - [17] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable. But it's not the situation we have at the moment, and therefore I feel the price is unreasonable. I don't believe the extractors should be free, but I am disappointed that CCP should make it so expensive to transfer SP that you have already paid to earn between your own characters.
Jarsoom Blade Blade's Legion 31	Posted - 2016.02.06 12:37:40 - [18] - Quote Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... lolwat. The SP trading system is an optional feature, like ship SKINs, that you can use and spend some extra cash on if you want. It's not a core game mechanic, so it's not part of your subscription. Subscription goes into expansions and making the game better. EVE is the only game where subsciption profits actually go into expansions: I have never had to pay for an expansion of EVE, whereas other MMO's dish expacs out every year for around Gé¼40,- The system of SP trading is fair. The cost though, with current AUR package costs (Gé¼5,- = 900 AUR, one extractor = 999 AUR), is just cheeky to say the least. This is EVE
Phapma Tearial Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.02.06 12:51:49 - [19] - Quote Jarsoom Blade wrote: Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... lolwat. The SP trading system is an optional feature, like ship SKINs, that you can use and spend some extra cash on if you want. It's not a core game mechanic, so it's not part of your subscription. Subscription goes into expansions and making the game better. EVE is the only game where subsciption profits actually go into expansions: I have never had to pay for an expansion of EVE, whereas other MMO's dish expacs out every year for around Gé¼40,- The system of SP trading is fair. The cost though, with current AUR package costs (Gé¼5,- = 900 AUR, one extractor = 999 AUR), is just cheeky to say the least. Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic. And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release. I do agree with you on the AUR prices though.
Jarsoom Blade Blade's Legion 31	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:09:56 - [20] - Quote Phapma Tearial wrote: Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic. And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release. I do agree with you on the AUR prices though. I specifically mentioned the SP trading system as not being a core game mechanic. Not skill points themselves. Also, the core game mechanic of getting SP is the training queue, rather. Also if you think WoW has more content in one expansion than the entirety of EVE than you're playing EVE wrong, friend. This is EVE
Phapma Tearial Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:28:30 - [21] - Quote Jarsoom Blade wrote: Phapma Tearial wrote: Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic. And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release. I do agree with you on the AUR prices though. I specifically mentioned the SP trading system as not being a core game mechanic. Not skill points themselves. Also, the core game mechanic of getting SP is the training queue, rather. Also if you think WoW has more content in one expansion than the entirety of EVE than you're playing EVE wrong, friend. Well I don't want to drag this off topic too much, but Blizzard put more 'stuff' into the game in one expansion than CCP has ever put into their game. Not really a criticism, just my observation Exodus was a biggie, and Trinity gave us more ships, then we got incursions and better character creation. But I feel none of it equates to the sheer amount of work that goes into creating traditional MMO raids and questing zones. I suppose it's like Blizzard gives us rooms filled with paintings, and CCP give us the canvas and the paint
Thorian Baalnorn Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S 62	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:29:13 - [22] - Quote Phapma Tearial wrote: Jarsoom Blade wrote: Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... lolwat. The SP trading system is an optional feature, like ship SKINs, that you can use and spend some extra cash on if you want. It's not a core game mechanic, so it's not part of your subscription. Subscription goes into expansions and making the game better. EVE is the only game where subsciption profits actually go into expansions: I have never had to pay for an expansion of EVE, whereas other MMO's dish expacs out every year for around Gé¼40,- The system of SP trading is fair. The cost though, with current AUR package costs (Gé¼5,- = 900 AUR, one extractor = 999 AUR), is just cheeky to say the least. Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic. And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release. I do agree with you on the AUR prices though. I cant believe you are comparing WoW to EvE. Thats like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ferrari Spider in terms of quality. Give me a graphics artist and animator and i could build those WoW XPacks at the rate of 1 every six months. Those are not that hard to build, they have no substance. And its not like they attempt to balance their game. There are huge gaps in strength and abilities between every xpack. Grinding a max level dungeon, new xpack comes out, you get you some new green armor maybe a couple of blue pieces and now your soloing that dungeon that you needed a group for before the xpack. That game is terrible. My dog has a bigger skill list than their classes. And the progression is 100% linear but made to feel like an open vast world. Ill take quality of quantity and substance over flash, thanks. Acquiring skills is a core mechanic. Acquiring game skill points at an accelerated rate is not. Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
Phapma Tearial Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:35:01 - [23] - Quote Thorian Baalnorn wrote: I cant believe you are comparing WoW to EvE. Thats like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ferrari Spider in terms of quality. Give me a graphics artist and animator and i could build those WoW XPacks at the rate of 1 every six months. Those are not that hard to build, they have no substance. And its not like they attempt to balance their game. There are huge gaps in strength and abilities between every xpack. Grinding a max level dungeon, new xpack comes out, you get you some new green armor maybe a couple of blue pieces and now your soloing that dungeon that you needed a group for before the xpack. That game is terrible. My dog has a bigger skill list than their classes. And the progression is 100% linear but made to feel like an open vast world. Ill take quality of quantity and substance over flash, thanks. Acquiring skills is a core mechanic. Acquiring game skill points at an accelerated rate is not. Actually it was someone else who tried to equate EVE's expansions with those of other MMOs. I was actually describing how they are not the same. Anyway, back to the thread topic.
ArmyOfMe BANISHED. The WeHurt Initiative 578	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:39:32 - [24] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Funny how the yay sayers slowly start catching up to the fact that this is not about giving players the ability to move SP around. On topic - making them free would only make it even worse and defeat the (true) purpose. As i said in the first dev blog about this, trust CCP to ** it up for themselfs anyhow with taking to much money for it Personally i hate this feature, so im quite happy with the price. And it will deffo not ** up normal char sales. QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
Nuclear Nut Zack CK-0FF Bad Intention 0	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:43:41 - [25] - Quote Completely free seems a bit off. There should definitely be a price on them, but let's look at the percentages here: Let's say the average character sold on the bazaar goes for 15 bil and the transfer fee is paid in PLEX. At a PLEX price of 1.25 bil, that means 16.67% goes to CCP. On the other hand, if the average character goes for 20 bil and the transfer is paid in money, that works out to 6.5% for CCP. Now let's look at the price of skill extractors in a very conservative way: Let's say extractors go for $4 and PLEX for $20. At 2000SP/hour (so the SP has a high value) you get about 1.44 mil per month, so let's just say it takes 1/3 PLEX of training to fill an extractor. That works out to each injector costing 1/3 PLEX for SP and 1/5 PLEX for the extractor. That comes out to 37.5% of the transaction going to CCP, and that's pretty much the bare minimum where the extractors are obtained at the ideal price and the SP comes at a relatively high price. The percentage is more like 45-55% with more ideal training methods. See the problem? I'd say a price of about 120 each in small numbers or 100 in bulk would be reasonable, but the current prices will completely destroy most of the potential use and market for SP packets.
Alice Saki Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 126468	Posted - 2016.02.06 14:07:19 - [26] - Quote They should never have done it. FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26843	Posted - 2016.02.06 14:32:23 - [27] - Quote ArmyOfMe wrote: As i said in the first dev blog about this, trust CCP to ** it up for themselfs anyhow with taking to much money for it Personally i hate this feature, so im quite happy with the price. And it will deffo not ** up normal char sales. Yup. The amount of whinging that has come out of this so far only suggests that they almost turned this travesty into a good thing. I mean, the idea is still idiotic and the reasons for implementing it were (predictably) complete bunk, but at least it has come to generate some comedy. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Mithandra Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn 467	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:49:59 - [28] - Quote They should not be free. If they were , people would farm thier own alts with no penalty. You would be able to move points around willy nilly, totally defeating the skillpoint system already in place. Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13543	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:41:56 - [29] - Quote Tippia wrote: ArmyOfMe wrote: As i said in the first dev blog about this, trust CCP to ** it up for themselfs anyhow with taking to much money for it Personally i hate this feature, so im quite happy with the price. And it will deffo not up normal char sales. Yup. The amount of whinging that has come out of this so far only suggests that they almost turned this travesty into a good thing. I mean, the idea is still idiotic and the reasons for implementing it were (predictably) complete bunk, but at least it has come to generate some comedy. Just a bit of commentary here. It's like a bad episode of Battlestar Galactica ie "This has happened before, it will happen again" lol. CCP come up with some idea and even go so far as to suggest that it is for new people/the small guys/ groups, whatever. Many Veterans and Established players (having been through this before) see right through it the 1st second the idea is posted. And we say so. Others (either newish players who lack the context of past experience or the more na+»ve/idealistic/unrealistic types among the veterans) look at the idea and foolishly think it's going to work as intended, and throw their support behind it in the form of snarky "you bitter vets are gonna get it now" posts. The Vets/Established with some common sense and a touch less personal greed try to explain to these people that not only will this idea NOT help new players, in Fine Malcanian Fashion, it will enrich US (the folks who have been here for a while) and make the gaps between old and new, rich and poor, big group and little group even wider than they were before**. But people like this never listen, and they are SURE that the opposition comes from people who 'just don't like change'. I almost feel a bit guilty when I see the obvious results of these things (like who people were sure as hell that Dominion sov was going to stick it to the 'big cartels' and let the little guy into null sec, when all it ended up doing was let the little guy RENT his way into null while his isk found it's way into big group's wallets lol). I mean, it's like laughing at that 'special kid' in school who got off that special bus every day, when the reality is that he couldn't help being special, any more than these Na+»ve types can help their lack of common sense or wisdom.
Rust Trucker The Digital Undead 1	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:59:42 - [30] - Quote Nuclear Nut Zack wrote: Completely free seems a bit off. There should definitely be a price on them, but let's look at the percentages here: Let's say the average character sold on the bazaar goes for 15 bil and the transfer fee is paid in PLEX. At a PLEX price of 1.25 bil, that means 16.67% goes to CCP. On the other hand, if the average character goes for 20 bil and the transfer is paid in money, that works out to 6.5% for CCP. Now let's look at the price of skill extractors in a very conservative way: Let's say extractors go for $4 and PLEX for $20. At 2000SP/hour (so the SP has a high value) you get about 1.44 mil per month, so let's just say it takes 1/3 PLEX of training to fill an extractor. That works out to each injector costing 1/3 PLEX for SP and 1/5 PLEX for the extractor. That comes out to 37.5% of the transaction going to CCP, and that's pretty much the bare minimum where the extractors are obtained at the ideal price and the SP comes at a relatively high price. The percentage is more like 45-55% with more ideal training methods. See the problem? If anything the cost should be a little lower than the character bazaar to ensure a healthy market develops. Even if they were free CCP would eventually come out ahead in the end due to SP being lost in the injection process. I'd say a price of about 120 each and 100 in bulk would be reasonable, but the current prices will completely destroy most of the potential use and market for SP packets. This was more of how i was thinking when i first posted, me saying it should be free was just my knee jerk reaction after seeing the price. The skill points were already paid for, now its going to alot more money to move the skill points we already paid for and end up with less ,which I am totally fine with dimishing returns and less skill points out of it. But when this feature was announced i was hoping it would be a way to transfer skill points at a decent price. With the way CCP has priced aurum you actually have to end with paying more than you would want to for a certain amount of skill injectors aswell. My problem is not with the feature itself but with the price, say you where to spend 100 usd, you honestly dont need with alot of sp ( that was already paid for with someones subscription ) Now because of this instead of spending up to 100-200 bucks on this feature im not going to use it at all, i think alot of people will buy a couple to fix their skill sheet to get rid of mining skills and crap on their combat characters but after that at these prices, not so much.
Ibutho Inkosi Irubo Kovu 103	Posted - 2016.02.06 17:31:54 - [31] - Quote I hope everyone eventually gets their feet back on the ground and realizes this injector/extractor thing is just a bad idea. As in all bad ideas the reasons it's bad are so numerous it's moot. Why it's a good idea? One or two...CCP has something (else) to sell. Players can juke the system. Putting the two plusses in boldfaced caps doesn't make them more than the negs. I really couldn't believe it when I heard someone on a payroll actually dreamed this up and kept his/her job. As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 688	Posted - 2016.02.06 17:49:44 - [32] - Quote The problem with the "for the new player" angle is just how expensive these things are going to be. There is the inject aur price, then there is going to be the billions of isk price of the skills. New players simply aren't going to be able to afford it without buying plex. It will help old players establish focused alts quickly though. My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Boom Boom Longtime EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains. 1244	Posted - 2016.02.06 18:01:15 - [33] - Quote CCP remind me of Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory - and we all know what happened to him. Concord Approved Trader
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 9805	Posted - 2016.02.06 18:51:21 - [34] - Quote Boom Boom Longtime wrote: CCP remind me of Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory - and we all know what happened to him. Who's this 'we' to which you refer. Half the people reading that don't even know who Willy Wonka is without using Google. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4645	Posted - 2016.02.06 19:36:37 - [35] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Rust Trucker wrote: I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow... ...I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high Pick door A or pick door B. You can only pick one, not both. If it doesn't provide the revenue CCP are seeking, then I'm sure they'll adjust the price. However, if I was crystal balling, I'd say this is only part of a larger revenue restructuring and that the game will move to a hybrid model, where people can subscribe and earn skillpoints as they sleep (like now), or play free but buy skillpoints from other players in order to gain levels. Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable. Glad to see that i'm not the only one thinking that. Every since I saw a CCP developer happy with more activity in the server versus more population, things have been slowly falling into place so CCP can earn more money from players "doing stuff" than "entering the servers". Monetizing activity is the key to the F2P door. And then, CCP just bought a oversized server to replace TQ2. If your neighbor changes his car for a bus, it's obvious that he plans to fill it. And nothing that CCP has said points at a chance of a surge in new players. Yes, it's a hunch so far. Intuition in lieu of enough data. And the consequences would be so dramatic that I've been making up my mind for the first stage -F2Pdemographics. I don't want to think of the next stage, F2P burnout and death. That still is years away. And maybe CCP will just not go F2P after all. Maybe the insufficent data hides a key to go back to population growth in some way I couldn't imagine. But chances are low. Because any "magic key" CCP could have, would have been used 2 years ago when they ended up firing 20% of their employees. CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Boom Boom Longtime EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains. 1245	Posted - 2016.02.06 19:50:19 - [36] - Quote I just wonder what "exciting new features" they might come up with next to shamelessly milk more cash out of the playerbase udders before the cow can yield no more. Concord Approved Trader
Memphis Baas 1054	Posted - 2016.02.06 23:45:46 - [37] - Quote You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 401	Posted - 2016.02.07 00:02:28 - [38] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this. 1 AUR cost to undock.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 447	Posted - 2016.02.07 00:09:44 - [39] - Quote Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. I recently used hours for plex to start playing again in anticipation of the feature, id love to melt down one of my 100m sp characters and create a fresh new one with the skills i want, of course with a lower amount of sp due to drawbacks. I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow but the prices they are asking are WAY too much. It cost over 800 bucks to transfer the skills from a 100m sp character. I just thrown off now by this and my excitement about creating a new character with a nice chunk of skills ( that i spent years training myself ) is gone. I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... Ohh poor you, LOL! I'm just happy to know that their is someone in Eve who detests scrubs as much as I do. These prices should keep them from breeding like cockroaches all over the place in Eve. Edit: nothing stopping you from working overtime.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33284	Posted - 2016.02.07 06:55:47 - [40] - Quote I like my name, but I could go for the rename-for-AUR thing. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Morgan Agrivar Agrivar Salvaging and Garbage Disposal 263	Posted - 2016.02.07 08:40:47 - [41] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I like my name, but I could go for the rename-for-AUR thing. Keep it, it is you. Just something about me...
Kalgeroth Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2016.02.07 09:31:41 - [42] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: Memphis Baas wrote: You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this. 1 AUR cost to undock. no, there would be a new virtual currency for undocking it will be sold in packages of 10 or 10000 And it will cost you 11 to undock
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4649	Posted - 2016.02.07 10:00:14 - [43] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this. A next logical step would be unlimited trial without skill gain after the first 15 days. Skillpoints can be bought from the market, though. And then further ship classes could be unlocked for AUR. Or you could subscribe and gain full access. It wouldn't be called a duck, but it would walk like a duck. CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Soltys 64	Posted - 2016.02.07 10:11:03 - [44] - Quote Rust Trucker wrote: We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. I recently used hours for plex to start playing again in anticipation of the feature, id love to melt down one of my 100m sp characters and create a fresh new one with the skills i want, of course with a lower amount of sp due to drawbacks. Not free - this feature should be seeded on the market for ISK. That would be fair in p2p game. Seeding it in cash shop at price point that is equivalent to a cost of 20 plexes for transferring 35m sp bazaar character is just greedy stupidity. Quote: I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... That would be closer to bazaar "standards" of high sp characters (as much as progressive price can ever be close to a flat one). But you know, CCP ! Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
Kiandoshia Gambrini 2410	Posted - 2016.02.07 10:18:53 - [45] - Quote Kalgeroth wrote: Eli Stan wrote: Memphis Baas wrote: You want this thread to become a source of inspiration for CCP? Cause we CAN post bad ideas of how they can do more milking. Examples: - character rename for an Aur fee - ship replacement program linked to credit-card - cash bidding instead of voting for CSM seats There's a whole thread of this. 1 AUR cost to undock. no, there would be a new virtual currency for undocking it will be sold in packages of 10 or 10000 And it will cost you 11 41 to undock
Dibz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2016.02.07 10:39:51 - [46] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: A next logical step would be unlimited trial without skill gain after the first 15 days. Skillpoints can be bought from the market, though. Bingo.
Dalto Bane Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 176	Posted - 2016.02.07 11:16:18 - [47] - Quote Even though I know that this feature is really popular with alot of my fellow pilots out there I don't want it period. I am happy for all of you, I really am, but I always like the of making a choice and getting stuck with the consequences. That it actually took time to get the skills needed to fly it right. Now, it feels like... blah, everybody with some cash is gonna be doped up on SP if I am understanding the mechanics right. As far as making it free because you pay a subscription. Absolutely not. It would be just a few 30mil SP players pushing their points left to right and back again. Total chaos! However, I am also very excited for all the new Eve Players who get jacked up on SP in their first 2 weeks of playing, fly some shine, and wander down in the wrong system, not knowing what to do. Drops Mic
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 55	Posted - 2016.02.07 11:37:25 - [48] - Quote Tavari Minrathos wrote: just because you want them to be free, doesn't mean that they should be free. Development time went into Skill extractors. testing time went into this. Its an additional service that I'm thrilled to have in the game. And the price point is low enough that i expect to see this feature actually used. In principle you would be correct, but there are two issues: 1. Development time for this would be laughably small. 2. CCP performing testing?? Are you on drugs? 3. It's a blatant money grab which CCP developed then tried (poorly) to sell by having their junior employees claim it would help new players. The reality of course is that it will help empty their pockets due to the illusion that EVE greatness is largely based on skill point acquisition.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1101	Posted - 2016.02.07 11:40:49 - [49] - Quote moving SP shouldnt be possible at all. now you can do it for a decent fee. Stop complaining.
Thorian Baalnorn Bad Influence 68	Posted - 2016.02.07 12:30:12 - [50] - Quote After figuring out how much injectors are going to cost, i decided if i do this, i am just going to make an SP alt and just pull SP off it and inject it. Rather than buy someone elses SP. I would have to pay about $30 for 1.5 mil injectible SP. My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers... the ones that have earned 10s of millions of SP "the old fashion way" by saying we get a reduction in effectiveness while a noob gets full benefit when they have contributed little to nothing to this game. Extractors are to high. They should 100-300 AUR each. I dont feel like this feature is going to get a lot of use. The cost vs benefit means only the richest of players are going to mess with it. Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26856	Posted - 2016.02.07 12:34:42 - [51] - Quote Thorian Baalnorn wrote: My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers. You're not being penalised, and loyalty is not a factor. You choose to pay an age-scaled price that is set so that all comers will be disincentivised from using it en masse. A higher price per SP is needed to provide the same disincentive for a highly skilled character as it does for a low-skilled one. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1505	Posted - 2016.02.07 13:19:33 - [52] - Quote Lol the entire point is to get more money out of the players Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1505	Posted - 2016.02.07 13:20:47 - [53] - Quote Tippia wrote: Thorian Baalnorn wrote: My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers. You're not being penalised, and loyalty is not a factor. You choose to pay an age-scaled price that is set so that all comers will be disincentivised from using it en masse. A higher price per SP is needed to provide the same disincentive for a highly skilled character as it does for a low-skilled one. No it was set so ccp could use the "it's for the new player" angle Citadel worm hole tax
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26862	Posted - 2016.02.07 13:25:37 - [54] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: No it was set so ccp could use the "it's for the new player" angle Well, yeah. Ok. Fair enough. The outcome is the same anyway. It's still not a way to penalise loyalty regardless. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Thorian Baalnorn Bad Influence 69	Posted - 2016.02.07 15:03:50 - [55] - Quote Tippia wrote: Thorian Baalnorn wrote: My issue is, i dont really feed its fair to penalize the most loyal customers. You're not being penalised, and loyalty is not a factor. You choose to pay an age-scaled price that is set so that all comers will be disincentivised from using it en masse. A higher price per SP is needed to provide the same disincentive for a highly skilled character as it does for a low-skilled one. Loyalty is a factor to me and many others. This game runs on loyalty, AKA player retention. This deal allows the rich to skill up quickly while the poor has to skill up the old school way. So more money= much bigger advantage. It didnt impact the difference between those than can spend a lot per month and those that couldnt with say plexes, because isk is not something you keep permanently. You gain isk with plexes and lose isk getting blown up. This however is permanent and that gives wealthier players a bigger advantage. While i could afford to inject several times a month, the price is simply to high for the return i would get. Again this is mostly for rich players and at that rich new players. The cost should be the same for everyone, regardless of SP. I know people say well at higher levels you have a lot of core skills maxed and this helps newbs catch up. But at higher levels our training times are weeks and months, not minutes and hours. We gain very little by doing a month of training. A new player gains loads by doing a month of training. Everyone should get the same amount of SP per injector whether you have 200k SP or 200 million sp and extractors should be 100-300 AUR. At the current price CCP is basically double dipping in our pockets since new subs will be created to gain SP and you basically pay another subs fee for extracting. If you are buying these on the market you can expect them to cost 3/4 or so of a plex. Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26865	Posted - 2016.02.07 15:12:25 - [56] - Quote Thorian Baalnorn wrote: Loyalty is a factor to me and many others. GÇªbut has absolutely no bearing on game mechanics, and for good reason. It certainly doesn't affect how GÇ£penalisedGÇ¥ you are (mainly because you're not penalised at all). The difference you're seeing between the low-SP and the high-SP yields are a matter of balance, with a very specific end-state in mind: one of diminishing returns, which is how everything in EVE works. Quote: While i could afford to inject several times a month, the price is simply to high for the return i would get. Good. Then it's working as it should. Quote: Everyone should get the same amount of SP per injector whether you have 200k SP or 200 million sp and extractors should be 100-300 AUR. Why? The whole point of the thing is to give new characters an extraordinarily stupid and expensive way to skip time. Why should old characters benefit from it at all, much less at equal rates? Quote: At the current price CCP is basically double dipping in our pockets since new subs will be created to gain SP and you basically pay another subs fee for extracting. GÇªand? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 14012	Posted - 2016.02.07 15:23:48 - [57] - Quote Thorian Baalnorn wrote: At the current price CCP is basically double dipping in our pockets since new subs will be created to gain SP and you basically pay another subs fee for extracting. for the millionth time -entirely optional- Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Daerrol Death By Design Did he say Jump 291	Posted - 2016.02.07 15:36:30 - [58] - Quote People actually CARE about SP injectors? I may buy one to drop off some crappy skills and put them into ISK. For large scale SP transfers, Character bazaar is still the way to go. That functions exactly how it did before.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25877	Posted - 2016.02.07 16:40:34 - [59] - Quote Don't like it? Don't use it. Simples. As others have repeatedly pointed out, it's an entirely optional mechanic and there is no disadvantage if you refuse to use it. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Aiwha Infinite Point Northern Army 914	Posted - 2016.02.07 16:43:30 - [60] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Funny how the yay sayers slowly start catching up to the fact that this is not about giving players the ability to move SP around. On topic - making them free would only make it even worse and defeat the (true) purpose. Making them cost isk would provide a massive isk sink AND not drive up the price of PLEX. Sanity is fun leaving the body. Aiwha for CSM XI
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4649	Posted - 2016.02.07 16:49:37 - [61] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Don't like it? Don't use it. Simples. As others have repeatedly pointed out, it's an entirely optional mechanic and there is no disadvantage if you refuse to use it. For some reason, that same argument didn't worked well for those who wanted more avatar content in EVE. CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 26865	Posted - 2016.02.07 16:54:41 - [62] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: For some reason, that same argument didn't worked well for those who wanted more avatar content in EVE. Mainly because creating that additional content would take away developer resources from more critical features and because CCP's first attempt didn't leave the option open. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
flakeys Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3245	Posted - 2016.02.07 17:18:15 - [63] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Boom Boom Longtime wrote: CCP remind me of Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory - and we all know what happened to him. Who's this 'we' to which you refer? Half the people reading that don't even know who Willy Wonka is without using Google. Mr Epeen I'll have to admit , i would neeed to google augustus gloop ... that is if i wanted to know wich character he is again.Wich i obviously don't .... We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25877	Posted - 2016.02.07 17:18:38 - [64] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Don't like it? Don't use it. Simples. As others have repeatedly pointed out, it's an entirely optional mechanic and there is no disadvantage if you refuse to use it. For some reason, that same argument didn't worked well for those who wanted more avatar content in EVE. You mean except for the part where the CQ/avatar based content (or lack thereof) wasn't optional and turned graphics cards into radiant heaters? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
ISD Buldath ISD STAR 330	Posted - 2016.02.07 21:59:24 - [65] - Quote Quote: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Lets keep on topics regarding the new Skill extractors/injectors here, yes? ~ISD Buldath Interstellar Services Department Support, Training and Resources Division Lt. Commander

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