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Jendra Neutral University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.26 00:59:00 - [31] - Quote Good to see people making a fuss about the chim. It's been four long years since I made the idiot mistake of training for one and not a day has gone by when I didn't kick myself for it.
Murtific Snuff Box 2	Posted - 2011.12.26 05:01:00 - [32] - Quote Jendra Neutral wrote: Good to see people making a fuss about the chim. It's been four long years since I made the idiot mistake of training for one and not a day has gone by when I didn't kick myself for it. dedicated training and fitting requirements are needed to make the chimera a reliable and good triage carrier, 20k dps tank good resists, crap scan res, decent capacitor sustainment during triage operations, it is the stealth bomber of the triage operational requirements. The capacitor transfer range is pretty important in my opinion, but isn't overshadowed by the nidhoggur's repair incentives. I have minmatar carrier 5 and am still looking deeper at uses for the chimera in triage operations. Justification of the energy transfer range will allow you to let a skirmish fleet run around more on the battle field which allows for range dictation. Running around requires capacitor and if anything, sustainment of capacitor while mwd'd can be critical during a fight. There are many advantages of such tactics, techniques, and procedures utilized in triage operations. Not ever carrier can fit in perfect with every tactic. The archon is great for slow moving armor fleets, yet the nidhoggur will be the chimera will be the lead for the skirmish shield fleet. A pilot that knows every aspect (cap recharge, total ammount of cap, amount of cycles all transfers can run simultaneously, scan res on commonly used alliance/corp standardized ship fittings [lock times], and so on. There are so many variables that a good triage pilot will know. He who flies his ship better and knows the performance limitations will conduct themselves accordingly than any other pilot in combat. My 2 cents.. All the carriers are fine, I believe the chimera could use 30 cpu more and it will be good for shield fleets without the use of flux coils or cap power relays...... -M
Jendra Neutral University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.26 05:11:00 - [33] - Quote Murtific wrote: My 2 cents.. All the carriers are fine, I believe the chimera could use 30 cpu more and it will be good for shield fleets without the use of flux coils or cap power relays...... -M Your post does not support this statement. Furthermore, i'd love to seethe chim fits your using for comparison.
Murtific Snuff Box 2	Posted - 2011.12.26 16:05:00 - [34] - Quote Jendra Neutral wrote: Murtific wrote: My 2 cents.. All the carriers are fine, I believe the chimera could use 30 cpu more and it will be good for shield fleets without the use of flux coils or cap power relays...... -M Your post does not support this statement. Furthermore, i'd love to seethe chim fits your using for comparison. That information is classified dear friend. If you want to get the ship to perform on a basic level, you have to spend some isk. Unlike the Archon which you can just slap t2 mods to and go, the chimera requires modules that reduce CPU. Go back to EFT and try again m8ter.
Jack Dant The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre 265	Posted - 2011.12.26 16:43:00 - [35] - Quote Murtific wrote: That information is classified dear friend. If you want to get the ship to perform on a basic level, you have to spend some isk. Unlike the Archon which you can just slap t2 mods to and go, the chimera requires modules that reduce CPU. Go back to EFT and try again m8ter. Does this "classified fit" involve 4 istabs for a tank? Anyway, saying the chimera is fine because you can fit it fine with 100m worth of faction mods is silly. You can spend the same on the archon, and actually make it better instead of just fitting. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Jendra Neutral University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.12.26 17:43:00 - [36] - Quote Jack Dant wrote: Murtific wrote: That information is classified dear friend. If you want to get the ship to perform on a basic level, you have to spend some isk. Unlike the Archon which you can just slap t2 mods to and go, the chimera requires modules that reduce CPU. Go back to EFT and try again m8ter. Does this "classified fit" involve 4 istabs for a tank? Anyway, saying the chimera is fine because you can fit it fine with 100m worth of faction mods is silly. You can spend the same on the archon, and actually make it better instead of just fitting. I assumed he was trolling. I really hope he was trolling.
Murtific Snuff Box 2	Posted - 2011.12.27 04:34:00 - [37] - Quote istabs ftw. They are pretty awesome for quickly getting to a pos to refit a super, dont fly tired and ensure completion of your pre combat checks m8s.. This concludes my safety brief for the holiday season. Archon still reigns supreme in my opinion. I too have amarr carrier 5 and agree that it's performance is unprecedented amongst the other platforms loaded on the remaining types of carriers that can produce triage standards. A lot is possible with the chimera, but It does need a CPU buff. I think CCP should give it more CPU to be inline with the Archon without having to fit a lot of faction and expensive/unique implants. I think we can all agree upon that.
Soon Shin Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck 24	Posted - 2011.12.27 07:41:00 - [38] - Quote The Chimera even with pimp and faction does not have enough CPU to fit a Tech 2 Triage Module, no matter how hard you try, the only way is to use a cpu implant, The chimera desperately needs CPU.
Danny John-Peter The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 15	Posted - 2011.12.27 18:32:00 - [39] - Quote Tbh I think the Nid should be the best Triage carrier, it is the reppy one after all. Proposal - New Nid Bonus as follows "While in Triage shield and armour resists increase by X%" This would effectively make the Nid a highly effective triage platform while retaining its lackluster ability to tank out of Triage, which is in turn balanced by the repping bonus. And as for Thanatoses not having a resist bonus, there care-bear carriers anyways.
Halle Karnassus Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:48:00 - [40] - Quote Danny John-Peter wrote: And as for Thanatoses not having a resist bonus, there care-bear carriers anyways. And the niddy is a repping POS carrier anyway. Buff my chimera!
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 246	Posted - 2011.12.27 23:52:00 - [41] - Quote Halle Karnassus wrote: Danny John-Peter wrote: And as for Thanatoses not having a resist bonus, there care-bear carriers anyways. And the niddy is a repping POS carrier anyway. Buff my chimera! And its a mother ******* beast at that ****. I guess in a few days I'm finishing up the last of my armor nid skills (Cap Repair Systems 5). I already have Fighters 5, Minnie Carrier 5, Capital Remote Armor Reps 5, and even armor comps at 5. I guess I can't avoid training cap shield RR anymore. :( -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 55	Posted - 2011.12.28 01:40:00 - [42] - Quote Ok, as someone who does triage (in PvP) on occasion in w-space, I thought I would chime in. 1) 3x primary logistics module and 1x secondary sounds fair. This means carrying a shield or armor rep on a differently fit niddy or thanny. These are useful for touch-ups (quick boost while they are primary, remember that shield rep is instant, while armor is able to regenerate the EHP of a ship that was nearly lost). 2) A T2 Triage Module should fit with meta 0 capital modules, T2 resist modules, and T2 capacitor modules (Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I if shield tanked). 2.5) You all should accept that you fit capacitor power relays on shield tanked ships. The penalties are stacking penalized, so it is not all that bad. 3) A four slot tank should be attainable. 4) All of the above should apply with all V's. 5) The thanny and nid should be able to use 3x shield transporters or 3x armor transporters, but it is acceptable if they have to tank differently (ie. 3x shield rr niddy runs a self armor tank). 6) The thanny is the odd one out because of its damage bonus. If it is triaging, it is because there was not a better choice around. Deal with it (I did for a while). 7) Meta 2 cap mods and faction modules are not considered, but they can be used to break out of these limitations So, onto the carriers: Archon - Perfect, do not change. It does have the CPU to self shield tank for ***** and giggles, but it is not that good of an idea and will not have an effect on fit. Chimera - Needs 12.5% boost to CPU to meet above criteria. 17.5% suggested for Deadspace Shield Boost Amps. Nidhoggur 1) Self Armor Remote Shields - Needs 10.5% boost to CPU to just fit. 15% CPU boost suggested for Deadspace EANMs to fit. 2) Self Shields Remote Armor - Barely Fits. 5% CPU boost suggested for Deadspace Shield Boost Amps. 3) Self Armor Remote Armor - Needs 17% PG increase if it is desireable. 4) Self Shield Remote Shield - Not Happening, sorry. (Overall Suggestions) 17.5% CPU boost. Thanatos 1) Self Armor Remote Shields - Short 7% CPU, suggested 10% CPU boost to take into account Deadspace Shield Boost Amps. 2) Self Shields Remote Armor - Fits Rather Easily, no suggested changes. 3) Self Armor Remote Armor - needs <1% Powergrid increase if desireable. Personally, I would suggest making it like the nid in the need to choose. As such, I would suggest a reduction in powergrid. 4) Self Shield Remote Shield - Not Happening, sorry. This is why I suggest that armor tanking not be favored by PG as it currently is. (Overall Suggestions) 10% CPU Boost, 10% PG nerf The result of the suggested changes is that the: Archon provides the strongest armor tanking triage platform, but is limited to repping and tanking armor only, Chimera provides the strongest shield tanking triage platform, but is limited to repping and tanking shield only. Nidhoggur provides the strongest reps for whichever tank it chooses. Thanny is mediocre, but it gets a damage bonus after all. Misceleneous changes suggested: Nidhoggur should be given EHP equivalent to that of the Thanny (bump base HP to be equal, as resists are equivalent if placed differently). This has less do do with its use as a triage platform and more as a fleet carrier Thanny should be given 7.5% or 10% per level to damage (or bonus to all drones, not just fighters). Seriously, fighters are not all that good, and even the thanny is rather poor at dishing out DPS. tl;dr suggestions: Archon - Nothing Chimera - 17.5% CPU buff Thanny - 10% damage per level to all drones. 10% PG nerf, 10% CPU buff Nidhoggur - 17.5% CPU buff, buff of base HP to equal thanny.
Jack Miton Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck 22	Posted - 2011.12.28 02:16:00 - [43] - Quote Demon, I agree on all counts except the Thanny. Given it is the obvious worst triage carrier given its bonuses, it should be able to fit both local shield/remote shield and local armour/remote armour as a way of compensating.
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 55	Posted - 2011.12.28 02:25:00 - [44] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Demon, I agree on all counts except the Thanny. Given it is the obvious worst triage carrier given its bonuses, it should be able to fit both local shield/remote shield and local armour/remote armour as a way of compensating. That was really the iffiest point on which I could compromise the most. I kinda threw it out there based on a desire to make the nid and thanny very similar. Perhaps the PG could be adjusted so a Meta 2 fit thanny can do it, but a meta 0 thanny cannot?
Herman Klaus Touched By Klaus 8	Posted - 2011.12.28 03:10:00 - [45] - Quote Saramiir wrote: Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass. Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus. The way I see it is the Thanny should be the brawler carrier. It could lose the shield rep bonus and its drone bonus should be doubled for all levels of drone, not just fighter. This way it being on the field would mean an added 1k-2k dps. I just find it daft to have the carrier for t he drone race have dual rep bonuses and a lame fighter dps bonus.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 246	Posted - 2011.12.28 03:19:00 - [46] - Quote Demon Azrakel wrote: 5) The thanny and nid should be able to use 3x shield transporters or 3x armor transporters, but it is acceptable if they have to tank differently (ie. 3x shield rr niddy runs a self armor tank). This is a really big deal because it means your local tank won't take advantage of the gang bonuses for the rest of the fleet. I'm not a fan of this. IMO, Triage + 3x RR + homogeneous local tank should fit - that doesn't mean it has to be reasonable to run full out from a cap standpoint. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 55	Posted - 2011.12.28 05:12:00 - [47] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Demon Azrakel wrote: 5) The thanny and nid should be able to use 3x shield transporters or 3x armor transporters, but it is acceptable if they have to tank differently (ie. 3x shield rr niddy runs a self armor tank). This is a really big deal because it means your local tank won't take advantage of the gang bonuses for the rest of the fleet. I'm not a fan of this. IMO, Triage + 3x RR + homogeneous local tank should fit - that doesn't mean it has to be reasonable to run full out from a cap standpoint. -Liang Only the leadership skill bonus (HP) and the resist bonus actually apply to self reps. a four link CS or T3 is not unreasonable. Also, multiple gang boosters if you really feel the need. As far as capacitor goes, a four slot tank is pretty much a four slot tank, excepting where CPR > CR for cap recharge.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 246	Posted - 2011.12.28 05:23:00 - [48] - Quote Demon Azrakel wrote: Only the leadership skill bonus (HP) and the resist bonus actually apply to self reps. a four link CS or T3 is not unreasonable (my all-but-unprobable legion runs four links, and having a loki booster in fleet is pretty common). Also, multiple gang boosters if you really feel the need. As far as capacitor goes, a four slot tank is pretty much a four slot tank, excepting where CPR > CR for cap recharge. I tend to like getting a full set of links because I'm not just worried about my local reps. Like I said - you're sacrificing a lot by having your local tank off cycle from everything else. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 55	Posted - 2011.12.28 05:56:00 - [49] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Demon Azrakel wrote: Only the leadership skill bonus (HP) and the resist bonus actually apply to self reps. a four link CS or T3 is not unreasonable (my all-but-unprobable legion runs four links, and having a loki booster in fleet is pretty common). Also, multiple gang boosters if you really feel the need. As far as capacitor goes, a four slot tank is pretty much a four slot tank, excepting where CPR > CR for cap recharge. I tend to like getting a full set of links because I'm not just worried about my local reps. Like I said - you're sacrificing a lot by having your local tank off cycle from everything else. -Liang While this is true, I am more intrigued by the idea than turned off by it. Actually, I just plain like the idea of unconventional fits or even fits that can remote rep both types equally (having run a triage thanny with two of each remote rep because of all of the caldari pilots that I had to deal with, it really added to the challenge as well as kept pilots flying ships with damage mods on them instead of ******* armor ravens). Of course, wherever I bring my carriers, I bring my booster alt and several others, so maybe I am making assumptions about what others will or will not do.
Wacktopia Sicarius. The Kadeshi 76	Posted - 2011.12.29 01:43:00 - [50] - Quote Saramiir wrote: Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass. Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus. Drone damage bonus is lame. Carrier is and should be a logistics ship and not DPS. How about... I dunno... maybe a... *LOCAL REPPER BONUS* like both frigging BC's (prior Crucible) and the Tier 3 BS are lumbered with.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 02:09:00 - [51] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: Saramiir wrote: Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass. Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus. Drone damage bonus is lame. Carrier is and should be a logistics ship and not DPS. How about... I dunno... maybe a... *LOCAL REPPER BONUS* like both frigging BC's (prior Crucible) and the Tier 3 BS are lumbered with. Oh come on, if the Thanny had a drone bonus I'd be forced to train Gal Carrier 5 on top of Minnie Carrier 5. :) -Liang Ed: Also, the fighter bonus is really interesting because there's definitely places where you'd want to use a dps spider carrier over a triage carrier. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Wacktopia Sicarius. The Kadeshi 76	Posted - 2011.12.29 02:38:00 - [52] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Wacktopia wrote: Saramiir wrote: Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass. Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus. Drone damage bonus is lame. Carrier is and should be a logistics ship and not DPS. How about... I dunno... maybe a... *LOCAL REPPER BONUS* like both frigging BC's (prior Crucible) and the Tier 3 BS are lumbered with. Oh come on, if the Thanny had a drone bonus I'd be forced to train Gal Carrier 5 on top of Minnie Carrier 5. :) -Liang Ed: Also, the fighter bonus is really interesting because there's definitely places where you'd want to use a dps spider carrier over a triage carrier. I'm confused. The Thanny already has a 5% Fighter bonus per level? Or did you mean if they buffed the fighter bonus up to 10% or something. PreEdit: I was not entirely serious with my local repper bonus idea - clearly this would make it tank a whole lot more... like an Arcon... HMMM maybe I am serious. :) When you die your ship gets blown to tiny, burning pieces. There's no "corpse run", no "respawn". You're dead. That's it. You just lost everything you were flying, perhaps even your body. Worse still you may have lost the space you controlled or resources you were gathering.-áTake that away and EVE is no longer EVE. TL;DR: Fix war decs.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 02:40:00 - [53] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: I'm confused. The Thanny already has a 5% Fighter bonus per level? Or did you mean if they buffed the fighter bonus up to 10% or something. PreEdit: I was not entirely serious with my local repper bonus idea - clearly this would make it tank a whole lot more... like an Arcon... HMMM maybe I am serious. :) Naw, I was saying that having the variety available to have 25% more fighter damage is a nice option. Also, active tank bonuses on the Niddy and Thanny = WIN. I may be biased with minnie carrier 5 and all the jazz that goes with it. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Wacktopia Sicarius. The Kadeshi 76	Posted - 2011.12.29 02:43:00 - [54] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Wacktopia wrote: I'm confused. The Thanny already has a 5% Fighter bonus per level? Or did you mean if they buffed the fighter bonus up to 10% or something. PreEdit: I was not entirely serious with my local repper bonus idea - clearly this would make it tank a whole lot more... like an Arcon... HMMM maybe I am serious. :) Naw, I was saying that having the variety available to have 25% more fighter damage is a nice option. Also, active tank bonuses on the Niddy and Thanny = WIN. I may be biased with minnie carrier 5 and all the jazz that goes with it. -Liang Tbh I would love to see a Thanny with a repper bonus with exile boosters in triage local-tanking something silly like 25k DPS. When you die your ship gets blown to tiny, burning pieces. There's no "corpse run", no "respawn". You're dead. That's it. You just lost everything you were flying, perhaps even your body. Worse still you may have lost the space you controlled or resources you were gathering.-áTake that away and EVE is no longer EVE. TL;DR: Fix war decs.
The Bulge Metalli-Core 0	Posted - 2012.02.27 22:15:00 - [55] - Quote Why not just create a set of Capital Logistics ships?
Linda Shadowborn Dark Steel Industries 87	Posted - 2012.02.28 00:47:00 - [56] - Quote The Bulge wrote: Why not just create a set of Capital Logistics ships? good idea lets call them.. carriers

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