I was thinking about this today.
What I would suggest:
1. Fix carriers so they can be fit in similar way to the archon (so for chimera for example 3 shield transporters, energy transfer, triage and local shield tank of at least cap SB, SBA and an invul, nidhogur and thanatos with at least 3 reps of either type and local tank)

2. change the nidhogur and thanatos in similar way that scimitar and oneiros are different from guardian/basilisk. What I was thinking about would be move one high on those two carriers to either low or mid (low on thanny mid on niddy, for example) or add one high on chimera / archon add one low / mid on thanny / niddy.

3. Modify cap flux coils - either change them into low slot cap recharger (so just 20% cap recharge bonus and no penalty for t2) or reduce the cap penalty on them.

Oh Yeah, I bet you did! I bet you where thinking about flux coils all day weren't you you naughty little minx, you!

reworking carriers or trigae mode per se would imo be pretty risky and a little over the top...

but the T2 triage mod is lackluster (compared to T2 siege mod) and could probably be modified to make "better" triage fittings possible.

Hi Guys,

what do you think regarding a (Triage-) Carrier buff?
Currently the Archon is imho the only Carrier who is able to do his job. Every other carrier is having to much Fitting issues..

So I'm askin what do you think: would it be better to make every carrier able to fit:
High: 3x Cap Remote Reps, 1x Cap. Cap Transfer, 1x Triage
+ 2 Local Cap Reps + Tank + Cap Recharge.
(+ adjust Cap so they can run a decent time even in Triage)

This is not true. The thanatos also works (although at 100% grid).



You are too specific.

I think they should fit triage, 3x main capital logistics module, 1x secondary logistics module (depending on bonuses). So 3 armor, 1 cap for archon, 3 shield 1 cap for chimera, 3 armor 1 shield thanatos, and probably either combination, or 2/2 for nidhoggur.

For local tank, it doesn't make sense to fit 2 shield boosters. But they should have enough grid/cpu for a 4-5 slot tank.

Off course, I should fitt 3 cap remote armor repairs and 1 cap remote shild transfer + triage for a armor gang. how could i forget that.
A fit like that would work for pos / station repping o.c. but i want to get with this ship in a fight and do a decent job. And i dont want to find my fit in a fail-fit thread where everyone and his mother is loughing at that Idiot with shield transfers for an armor gang...

I almost dont like that idea mainly that I dont want to be a healer whne I fly a carrier, and that buff would push everyone more into that role. Too tired of wow for me to want to do that.

I've heard of people using a single shield rep successfully in armor gangs.

Shield transport and booster activates at the start of the cycle, and armor at the end of if. It's not unusual for armor logis to lock a target only to see it die before the reps finish the cycle. With one shield rep, you engage it just after locking, instantly giving the target 3k shield buffer to buy time for your armor reps to kick in.

It's one theory, and I'm not sure it's any worse than an unbonused cap transfer (15km max range) or an extra armor rep you don't have the cap to run. Even an archon can only run 4 reps for something like a minute, and that's from full cap.

I think they should fit triage, 3x main capital logistics module, 1x secondary logistics module (depending on bonuses). So 3 armor, 1 cap for archon, 3 shield 1 cap for chimera, 3 armor 1 shield thanatos, and probably either combination, or 2/2 for nidhoggur.

For local tank, it doesn't make sense to fit 2 shield boosters. But they should have enough grid/cpu for a 4-5 slot tank.

Reduce the CPU need of CSTs by about 25%-30%, reduce the CPU need of CSB by 60% (I'm not even kidding, that's how unbalanced they are) .

If you do that to CSB, they'll use less CPU than an X-Large booster At all other sizes, CPU doubles over the previous size, but the capital one only gets 50% over XL.

The CST also follows a pattern, each level takes 35 more CPU than previous.

[quote=Jack Dant]The chimera has 1,031 CPU, and each capital shield booster uses 300. The CSTs are 175. So you're already ******. What's more, the other mods you use STILL NEED CPU, and they need more than the armour ones. So you're ****** from both sides.

Oh, I agree, but the solution is to give it more CPU, not make the mods cheaper to fit.

Not all day, but I was trying to come up with some fits that got enbled by the new genolution implants, including a triage shield tanking, shield transfering niddy, which gets it's tank ruined by the CPR's and CFCs are just crap.

Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass.

Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus.

No, thanny dmg bonus don't matter pvp, and we don't care about pve. Gimp archon to be in line with other carriers.

Personally, I can't really think of a way to truly balance triage carriers.

That said, I do agree that shield set-ups are WAY too hard to fit and way too hard to keep capped. Relays shouldn't effect cap modules (there's plenty of stuff that doesn't) or flux coils should be better. Or, make a capital only low slot cap mod. Basically, do SOMETHING.

Other than that, which in essence would just be the tip of the ice burg it is a tough problem. To me it seems that capital remote modules are balanced so that the archon is fine and everyone else is screwed. If the other guys can't fit 3 reps they will never be useful as combat ships. Even if they are useable, you will still always be better served with all archons.

IMHO, CCP should be looking to completely rework all the fittings for all the carriers, and potentially ALL capital mods on all ships. The end result should be that all the ships can fit armor shield AND cap mods, forgetting the racial crap. What works on logistics ships does not work on carriers, they need cap transfers, and they need to be able to be used in whatever fleet comes to hand. After all of this we'd have:

Archon - High local armor tank.
Chimmy - High local shield tank.
Niddy - Highest shield rep output.
Thanny - Highest armor rep output.

And do whatever we need to do with the fittings and bonuses to make that happen, and preserving the ability for all of them to be refit to either tank type. Archons would still probably be the most useful triage carrier, because they would survive the best in triage, but at least when someone else brings something else, people aren't just giggling.

If they don't want to do that (and shame on them if they dont), they should add half-size capital remote modules. Half the fit, half the rep and cap amount. That would give carrier the chance to fit great but not amazing fits, but at least be able to physically fill all their high slots.

but anyway, I think the carriers are fine how they are. Except the CPU on the chimera, could use a small boost.

I like the nidhoggur as is, thank you very much. Out of all the triage carriers, it is the best of them. I say that with all seriousness and guess what, I have amarr carrier 5 too. So it's not like I'm in the dark here. The nidhoggur was buffed with crucible appropriately. Before it was a little gimped but even then it wasn't nearly as bad as many claimed. The archon is of course fine too. I'm also inclined to say the thanny is fine. It's certainly the worst of the triage carriers but it is the best ratting/missioning carrier. I really don't see a problem with that. The chimera desperately needed more CPU prior to crucible, I honestly don't know if they made any changes to it. Other than said CPU shortage, it's actually just fine.

In short, stop trying to convert the other 3 carriers into archons. Variety is good, I trained multiple carriers for a reason.

Good to see people making a fuss about the chim. It's been four long years since I made the idiot mistake of training for one and not a day has gone by when I didn't kick myself for it.

My 2 cents.. All the carriers are fine, I believe the chimera could use 30 cpu more and it will be good for shield fleets without the use of flux coils or cap power relays......

-M

Your post does not support this statement. Furthermore, i'd love to seethe chim fits your using for comparison.

That information is classified dear friend. If you want to get the ship to perform on a basic level, you have to spend some isk. Unlike the Archon which you can just slap t2 mods to and go, the chimera requires modules that reduce CPU. Go back to EFT and try again m8ter.

Does this "classified fit" involve 4 istabs for a tank?

Anyway, saying the chimera is fine because you can fit it fine with 100m worth of faction mods is silly. You can spend the same on the archon, and actually make it better instead of just fitting.

And as for Thanatoses not having a resist bonus, there care-bear carriers anyways.

And the niddy is a repping POS carrier anyway.

Buff my chimera!

Demon, I agree on all counts except the Thanny.
Given it is the obvious worst triage carrier given its bonuses, it should be able to fit both local shield/remote shield and local armour/remote armour as a way of compensating.

Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass.

Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus.

5) The thanny and nid should be able to use 3x shield transporters or 3x armor transporters, but it is acceptable if they have to tank differently (ie. 3x shield rr niddy runs a self armor tank).

This is a really big deal because it means your local tank won't take advantage of the gang bonuses for the rest of the fleet. I'm not a fan of this. IMO, Triage + 3x RR + homogeneous local tank should fit - that doesn't mean it has to be reasonable to run full out from a cap standpoint.

-Liang

Only the leadership skill bonus (HP) and the resist bonus actually apply to self reps. a four link CS or T3 is not unreasonable (my all-but-unprobable legion runs four links, and having a loki booster in fleet is pretty common). Also, multiple gang boosters if you really feel the need.

As far as capacitor goes, a four slot tank is pretty much a four slot tank, excepting where CPR > CR for cap recharge.

I tend to like getting a full set of links because I'm not just worried about my local reps. Like I said - you're sacrificing a lot by having your local tank off cycle from everything else.

-Liang

Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass.

Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus.

Drone damage bonus is lame. Carrier is and should be a logistics ship and not DPS.

How about... I dunno... maybe a... LOCAL REPPER BONUS like both frigging BC's (prior Crucible) and the Tier 3 BS are lumbered with.

Oh come on, if the Thanny had a drone bonus I'd be forced to train Gal Carrier 5 on top of Minnie Carrier 5. :)

-Liang

Ed: Also, the fighter bonus is really interesting because there's definitely places where you'd want to use a dps spider carrier over a triage carrier.

I'm confused. The Thanny already has a 5% Fighter bonus per level? Or did you mean if they buffed the fighter bonus up to 10% or something.

PreEdit: I was not entirely serious with my local repper bonus idea - clearly this would make it tank a whole lot more... like an Arcon... HMMM maybe I am serious. :)

Naw, I was saying that having the variety available to have 25% more fighter damage is a nice option. Also, active tank bonuses on the Niddy and Thanny = WIN. I may be biased with minnie carrier 5 and all the jazz that goes with it.

-Liang

Why not just create a set of Capital Logistics ships?