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T2 manufacturers make too much money.

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Ingols	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:16:00 - [1] I'm a mission runner, I'm starting a new bastid child to whip. T2 manufacturers make too much isk for low or little risk. To solve this, I suggest the following. - T2 BPO can only be researched and manufactured and used in 0.0 space. - They must be physically present in a POS station or conquerable station. - They can't be copied. T2 BPO must be at risk of capture/destruction at all times. - T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems.
Kharakan Amarr Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:21:00 - [2] this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
NAP	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:24:00 - [3] Quote: T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems. Hahahahahahaha! How much thought did you give to that 'idea'?
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:24:00 - [4] If you think they make too much money, grind some missions, buy an interface, start inventing things like mad, and sell your own T2 mods cheaper, that will force them to make less money. :p ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Live Eye	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:27:00 - [5] Heh, if they didn't I sure as hell wouldn't be spending a month of skill training time preparing to run multiple r&d agents. It works the same as any real research type thing could, everyone gets an equal chance to be able to build up research merit and the lucky one who either had 6 agents with 2m RP or 1 day, 1 agent and 30 RP gets to reap the rewards and shouldn't be restricted in any way once they have the right to build with a BPO. If you want them, do r&d and hope to hell you are lucky. Otherwise invention and the waste of time it is awaits you... Live Eye
Politocratis	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:28:00 - [6] Really, think about that idea for a few seconds... Besides, I don't have ANY T2 BPOs have about 3.4 bil in the bank and make MORE than enough manufacturing T1 components to T2 manufacturers (on a weekly basis) to fund a fully active PvP life for me and some of my mates. Stop *****ing, get creative.
aeti Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:28:00 - [7] you mean only certain ships + modules make you "too much isk" how about you try and make billions off a small smartbomb or ammo bpo? -.-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:29:00 - [8] The biggest irony is that a few Drake/Myrmidon BPOs, worth a mere 350m a pop (so maybe 1.7b for 5 of them), exceed the profit of a Vagabond BPO by a large margin... T2's good, but its not a winbutton. /goes back to his T1 profits, mmmmm -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:45:00 - [9] You put a lot of thought in this didn't you? Half Assed Rhymage
Justin Thyme Gallente The Salvage and Reclamation Guild	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:52:00 - [10] Edited by: Justin Thyme on 31/01/2007 17:49:00 Edited by: Justin Thyme on 31/01/2007 17:48:40 Originally by: Dark Shikari T2's good, but its not a winbutton. Well the T2 Hammerhead one is close. 3 mil or more for an item that lists in the DB for less than 90k is a bit out there. And yes this is pretty much my only pet peeve in the game. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:11:00 - [11] Yea some BPO's are winbuttons, DCUII, hammerhead II, etc others are not really that impressive and are lucky to turn over >100mil a month. My 3 thoughts on the subject... The lottery sucks. Its not hard to get 10bil and buy a semi decent bpo but it will take >1 year to pay off. Lets see how invention goes now it's been unnerfed. I might buy a nice mod or cheap ship bpo but tbh im not sure thats the best investment atm... -----
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:14:00 - [12] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 31/01/2007 18:11:18 Originally by: Justin Thyme Originally by: Dark Shikari T2's good, but its not a winbutton. Well the T2 Hammerhead one is close. 3 mil or more for an item that lists in the DB for less than 90k is a bit out there. And yes this is pretty much my only pet peeve in the game. T2 Hammerhead is, what, maybe 150m profit a day? That really is not that much at all. You can make far more with a bit of effort and 10 billion or so in starting capital; compare that to the Hammerhead II BPO, which likely couldn't be bought for 50 billion. Sure, getting one is luck, but so is getting an ultra-valuable interface via exploration, or an Estemel spawn in 0.0, or getting ones' salvagers to actually work within 10 minutes of turning them on... -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Justin Thyme Gallente The Salvage and Reclamation Guild	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:15:00 - [13] Edited by: Justin Thyme on 31/01/2007 18:11:58 Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Yea some BPO's are winbuttons, DCUII, hammerhead II, etc others are not really that impressive and are lucky to turn over >100mil a month. Lets see how invention goes now it's been unnerfed. . I haven't read anything on changes to invention. I must have missed that in the patch notes. I'm assuming, I know a bad thing, that you still can't INVENT drones. If that has changed I will be looking hard into for making t2 drones for myself. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:16:00 - [14] Originally by: Justin Thyme Edited by: Justin Thyme on 31/01/2007 18:11:58 Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Yea some BPO's are winbuttons, DCUII, hammerhead II, etc others are not really that impressive and are lucky to turn over >100mil a month. Lets see how invention goes now it's been unnerfed. . I haven't read anything on changes to invention. I must have missed that in the patch notes. I'm assuming, I know a bad thing, that you still can't INVENT drones. If that has changed I will be looking hard into for making t2 drones for myself. The devs have said, AFAIK, that they will fix it soon so that drones and ammo can be invented. The "change" to invention was an increase in interface spawn rates, AFAIK. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Johnathan Roark Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:28:00 - [15] All of your ideas would increase the cost of tech 2 goods as less people would be able to manufacture. Only those in large 0.0 alliances. Corporation Management Improvement
Story Teller	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:46:00 - [16] Invention Unnerfed? I kinda think the other way. At the end the T2 modules will come down in price- eventually but i cant help thinking the only winners here will be Mission Runners. Quote: Copy from Market forum Ok so ive run of some test cases today, 1 day after the patch. Note: I accept 1 day isnt enough to come to a complete viewpoint. However, before patch i was managing to run 90 run copies and worst case a 40 run copy of Caldari Items with a 2 in 3 failure rate on the invention. So costings looked like being the following at market value. 3 invention jobs @ 120 Mil each (12 Datacores and Top end Decrypter and Top end Tech 1 item). Returning an estimated 750-900 Mil in Tech II sales (8-10 Mil a module), a return of 400 Mil with a production time of roughly 5 days to produce the modules. A manufacuring cost needs to be included into the costs as well which can reach 10% of the module value. After the patch the failure rate remained consistant at between 30-40% but the number of runs has dropped to below the 20 run area per BPC. (Still requires ongoing testing, but ive got a gut feeling in my stomach the nerf bat has hit) If this stays consistent over the next 2-3 days it seems that Invention on even the top end modules will come to an end as being viable in the short term. Using Datacores/Decrypters/Parts to a value of 360mil for a BPC of 150 Mil isk value is just not feasable. Even if you get the datacores for free from agents - there is no such thing as free!!! - those same datacores could be sold on market until the market bottoms out. Admittedly long term i expect to see Datacores fall in value from the top end giddy heights of 35mil a pop (the market will equalise itself i assume - no demand means the price will drop) but in order for it to start making sense the prices will have to drop to the 5-7 mil area max so the cost of a successful invention run falls to 60-80mil, for 70-100Mil return in profits. And over time as top end modules halve in price the return will fall to the 50mil area at which stage you start to question if its worth its return in time, with these figures it seems that invention is destined to be mass scale if it is to have an impact. It seems the Tech II BPO owners can breath again, you have some time before the rot moves in on market prices. Not forever - but some time. Will continue to test over the next couple of days, but as it stands its time to cash in those datacores while you can.
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Ingols - T2 BPO can only be researched and manufactured and used in 0.0 space. - They must be physically present in a POS station or conquerable station. - They can't be copied. T2 BPO must be at risk of capture/destruction at all times. - T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems. = No T2 items for mission runners in empire way to shaft yourself in the face Its great being Amarr, and having 27 charisma, isn't it?
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:00:00 - [18] Originally by: NAP Quote: T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems. Hahahahahahaha! How much thought did you give to that 'idea'? by "thought" do you mean "how drunk were you before you repeatedly bashed your cranium against a wall"? because that idea is insane. alright, perhaps some of the other stuff making it a little less convinient for T2 producers to just sit in some highsec station and print ISK might be nice, or perhaps make T2 BPOs less rare (see ref - tech 2 lottery) personally, i'm happy with the prices and supply of MOST tech 2, though i would like to see some of the ships costs drop by maybe 10-20% - but hey, nothing's perfect ========================================== Iy
Hypo Psycho Minmatar Universal Army	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:03:00 - [19] i think someone is upset that he doesnt have a T2 BPO which reminds me, CCP there seems to be a "bug" in game, my char does not own a vagabond BPO. "see you on the other side"
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:05:00 - [20] "If you think they make too much money, grind some missions, buy an interface, start inventing things like mad, and sell your own T2 mods cheaper, that will force them to make less money. :p" Dunno but why wasnt that the case for missions runners if people thought they made to much money...I agree t2 producers make WAY to much money for the little risk.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:09:00 - [21] Originally by: Ingols I'm a mission runner, I'm starting a new bastid child to whip. T2 manufacturers make too much isk for low or little risk. To solve this, I suggest the following. - T2 BPO can only be researched and manufactured and used in 0.0 space. - They must be physically present in a POS station or conquerable station. - They can't be copied. T2 BPO must be at risk of capture/destruction at all times. - T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems. Im sorry, maybe its me, but I cant find any sense in this post at all... . Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Ingols	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin You put a lot of thought in this didn't you? I put as much thought into it as the people calling for mission running nerfs due to the ungodly amount of money mission runners make.
Starleena	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Ingols I'm a mission runner, I'm starting a new bastid child to whip. T2 manufacturers make too much isk for low or little risk. To solve this, I suggest the following. - T2 BPO can only be researched and manufactured and used in 0.0 space. - They must be physically present in a POS station or conquerable station. - They can't be copied. T2 BPO must be at risk of capture/destruction at all times. - T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems. There is nothing stoping you from making T2 stuff. You have the same opertunities that every other player in this game has. Use them.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Shadowsword If you think they make too much money, grind some missions, buy an interface, start inventing things like mad, and sell your own T2 mods cheaper, that will force them to make less money. :p With current state of invention, you end up with a product that cost more to make than what is current sold on the market (with a very few exceptions). Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Story Teller	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:17:00 - [25] Yup Invention has now been screwed up, my testing is costing me a fortune. a 14 run BCUII just dosnt cut it. And TBH i do not think the Guys with RP Agents are going to hand over their datacores for the 5 Mil isk max required to make it worth your while inventing in the first place. CCP buggered this one up royally...
Oreh Anavrin ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Ingols T2 manufacturers make too much isk for low or little risk. Your right, get out the torches and pitchforks, we will break into their castles and steal their women. _________________________________ This is Oreh Anavrin and I am here to remind you that Eve is a video game and not real life. Now think about what you wrote before you hit the "post" button ;
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:20:00 - [27] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 31/01/2007 19:16:41 I actually like the first two points, whatever the effect on prices may be. Once you get a t2 bpo, if you are smart - you never ever need to risk losing it. For something so rare, valuable and desirable in game, I don't think this fits with the spirit of EVE. Make it so T2 BPOs have to be produced from POS and outposts, and are subsequently lootable and/or destructable. If they are looted they change hands, if destroyed they get re-seeded. In my mind that would fix the T2 lottery, because with enough research, planning and force, you can go and take someone's bpo from them, or at least deprive them of it. Why should such a valuable asset be invulnerable? AS for the final two points by the OP i would have to disagree - but the first two - i like
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Ingols I'm a mission runner This is like Lawyers and Dentist arguing over who makes more money Missioner: T2 dude makes too much isk with no risk while I work my arse off pew pweing the little red dots. No fair, nerf t2 dude. T2 dude: Missioners make too much isk in their faction Battleships with their faction mods with no risk. nerf Missions... oh and while you are at it nerf faction too... cuz... hum... is breaking eve. Every one repeat after me "Faction sux, T2 FTW"
Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:25:00 - [29] Edited by: Carter Burke on 31/01/2007 20:27:53 Originally by: Ingols I'm a mission runner, I'm starting a new bastid child to whip. T2 manufacturers make too much isk for low or little risk. To solve this, I suggest the following. - T2 BPO can only be researched and manufactured and used in 0.0 space. - They must be physically present in a POS station or conquerable station. - They can't be copied. T2 BPO must be at risk of capture/destruction at all times. - T2 ships and components can only be bought and sold or traded or escrowed in low 0.0 systems. What are you smoking? I produce Eos command ships. I make about 250M per week on them (I can only produce 5.25 units per week with PE 1 on my print, and I pull about 45M profit on each unit. And that's when some nimrod hasn't plunked twenty units at 80M each in my usual markets. Oh, and as for risk, blow me. I spent ages putting time into getting research points - you think that wasn't a risk, you idiot? I risked getting nothing for all my trouble. Stick to mission running, Ingols. There's better money in it for you. Better still, go pester the gate-gankers. Maybe they'll explain to you why you have such trouble with sand in your vagina. CB
Kalthune Hunter	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:54:00 - [30] 250M per week translates to about 6 hours per week of constantly mining Arkanor in a Hulk. Are you surprised people are complaining about tech 2 profit margins?

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