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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.02.03 01:46:00 -
[31]
Not quite true just i find the more valuable look on cruisers / battlecruisers.
I am getting crap on battleships.
Though i found some 800mm Rolled Tungsten Plates so i think the drop rate on those has increased.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.03 07:33:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 03/02/2007 07:31:12
Originally by: DiuxDium
I lied. About the post thing.
I must really suck at minning, or you must really suck at missions.
~Fin
So if I suck at missions, how much you get in 1 hour of mission running, included the time to loot and salvage? Don't give me your best time, with the cherry picked easy mission/fast result, but your average.
Or your last missions was before RMR and as most of the people you won't accept that the return and the difficulty have changed?
BTW: if you have a friend/alt following you and picking the loot, helping you, you must count even his time in the time spent. It is not free time.
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Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2007.02.03 19:27:00 -
[33]
I have three accounts, and consider this character my main. I've bounced around from corp/alliance to corp/alliance and have never found them to my liking. Being ORDERED to move out to the middile of nowhere in 0.0 to MINE(or add to the blob for a fleet op that is happening in a few hours) didn't take well with me. I work and have two kids and a wife, so my time is limited.
I chat with friends, switch skills, and blow stuff up. I have this mission-running character in a CNR and all the goodies, an industrial character, and a pvp character that belt pirates(and joined Priavateers not too long ago). I try to keep my ship setups on the pvp character as low as I can, but losses happen all the time. If not for the isk I make doing missions, I would have to park him for weeks at a time(as he has been for much of the past two months, in part because of the storyline implant nerf). If missions were nerfed into the stoneage, I would have no reason to stay in high sec.......yes.......but I'd more-than-likely find another game rather than adapt.
I have no intentions of ever joining a big alliance. I love my free will too much. Oh sure, I lose out on a lot of the rewards of 0.0, but I have my missions to help make up the difference.
PS. I just want to add that I am a team player, but there are too many CEOs that only care for themselves and their own goals/assets. I have yet to see a corp that operates for the greater good of it's own members, rather than filling the wallets of a select few. I suppose I could start my own corp with the intention of claiming some small part of 0.0, but greed affects us all and I'd rather not go down that road.
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Harry Voyager
Obscurity LLC
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Posted - 2007.02.03 22:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: DiuxDium
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 03/02/2007 00:16:55 Edited by: Venkul Mul on 03/02/2007 00:15:43
Originally by: DiuxDium
Originally by: jackasslolwitty
I'm crying with a lot of words.
This will be my last response to you, since you're clearly insane.
1) I was running L4's within 2 months of character creation. Easy Peazy
2) Missions are still worth a lot more than they should be. Causing a lot of inflation, since only the dumbest of mission runners ever lose their mission ships. ---- p.s Insults return insults, so don't use, and you shall not receive.
Deleted point 3 and 4 as not relevant.
1) How many years ago? or with the isk got where? Today it is very hard to get a BS (needed to do level 4 unless you have very good skill as character and players) in 2 months. Maybe if you play 12 hours every day. I had level 4 available after 2 months, but that don't mean I had the stuments or the skills to do level 4.
2) So your opinion is that level 4 should pay less per hour than mining veldspater? Currenly they give between 10 and 20 million every hour of mission running. A covetor mining omber or kernite will give the same returns. Probably it is exactly what you want, some nice player mining the veldspater for you, but as inflation is a bad thing, he should sell at base price, 1 isk/unit.
My compliment for your coerence with your first and last sentence. I strongly suggest you eat your words.
I lied. About the post thing.
I must really suck at minning, or you must really suck at missions.
~Fin
You *realy* suck at mining.
I'm in the habit of mining while I'm reading. I'm easily breaking 5m an hour, just mining commons in Empire, without even paying attention! I'm moving something on the order of 50,000m^3 of rock an hour, with a single character, no alts, and no area preparation.
I'm not even a dedicated miner!
Were I to, say, actually pay attention to what I was mining, i.e. not sit on 20m^3 asteroids for a full 3m cycle, resend my mining drones after they'd popped the rock, picking better rocks rather than just whatever veld happened to be within reach, upgrade to MSM2's, etc, I could easily double that.
Oh, and for those of you that weren't paying attention, DiuxDium's talking about Raven bombing missions last year. I don't think anyone is arguing that Ravens (and now Drakes) can't churn through lvl 4s like nobody's business; it is those ships that aren't Blooming Flowers of Missile Death, that seem to be having a mite unbalance risk/reward ratio.
Harry Voyager
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.04 11:17:00 -
[35]
The one of bad things about this kind of sthealt nerf is that while they are less noticeable (the bounties don't change, most of the basic mission rewards stay the same) and so they get less of a cry from the player base, the work to favor the pople farming missions for isk and maybe LP and increasing the cash intake in game.
In the time uesd by player to complete a mission killing all the possible objectives and then another recovering the loot, someone farming only for bonuties can do 2 missions (or even more if he has multiple high level agents accessible and can nitpick only the most lucrative missions).
So the players are induced to forget the loot and only run for the isks.
End results: the player doing that has a good quantity of isk and no usable modules, so will buy at whatever price he can, obviously going for the high end modules, so he can get isk faster, so high end modules increase in price. At the same time the middle ones, the more useable for the relatively new players, become scarcer as no one is looting them.
This can be good and beautiful for the PvPers using an alt to farm missions for isk, as they are interested only in the fast bucks, but annoing for the ones doing it because they enjoy the surprise of finding something interesting in the wreck or the challenge of doing the mission with different set ups.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2007.02.04 12:17:00 -
[36]
That's the first I've heard of any general loot nerf. Are you sure it's not just the occasional bad luck? I don't think the loot tables were modified in these last few patches, but I'll forward this thread inhouse just incase.
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Pantheon Lea
Farmer Boyz
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Posted - 2007.02.04 12:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zrakor That's the first I've heard of any general loot nerf. Are you sure it's not just the occasional bad luck? I don't think the loot tables were modified in these last few patches, but I'll forward this thread inhouse just incase.
For the last few missions i have run after the last patch i have noticed that almost no loot is dropped, now if you could remove the last of the crappy small modules, it would make salvaging nicer and cleaner.
If you really want loot, then let a few named modules drop once in a while, keep all the standard T1 stuff out of the loot tables.
Somehow my tractors that pull 500m/s can keep up with a ship that goes 350m/s and that sucks when looting, because you have to stop all the time.
To make it really spiffy let fraction loot drop *very* rarely, and named T1 loot drop occasionally, i would like to see 2-5 ships with loot in the common mission, not more, and let 1/50 or 1/100 of those drops be a fraction drop in average.
Benefit will be that, there is a reason to build T1 stuff, and there is a reason to sell named stuff.
Pantheon Lea
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Veryez
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Posted - 2007.02.04 16:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Pantheon Lea
Originally by: Zrakor That's the first I've heard of any general loot nerf. Are you sure it's not just the occasional bad luck? I don't think the loot tables were modified in these last few patches, but I'll forward this thread inhouse just incase.
For the last few missions i have run after the last patch i have noticed that almost no loot is dropped, now if you could remove the last of the crappy small modules, it would make salvaging nicer and cleaner.
If you really want loot, then let a few named modules drop once in a while, keep all the standard T1 stuff out of the loot tables.
Somehow my tractors that pull 500m/s can keep up with a ship that goes 350m/s and that sucks when looting, because you have to stop all the time.
To make it really spiffy let fraction loot drop *very* rarely, and named T1 loot drop occasionally, i would like to see 2-5 ships with loot in the common mission, not more, and let 1/50 or 1/100 of those drops be a fraction drop in average.
Benefit will be that, there is a reason to build T1 stuff, and there is a reason to sell named stuff.
I can back this up, I just ran Pirate Invasion (Lvl 4) and collected 190m3 loot & salvage, with exactly 2 named modules (everything else basic). Maybe the loot tables are being reset because of salvage changes?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.04 18:51:00 -
[39]
I have just started doing screenshot of the total loot of missions for documentation.
But recently the effect has increased drammatically. The quantity is very low, and even the most common of the named modules are extermly rare.
On the other hand salvage is abundant. That can be good if you aim to lower the general price of the rigs and salvage, but as the salvage market currently is less than dinamic, the teoretically good return of selling the salvage is esactly that, theoric.
If you need the screenshot for comparison I can send them when I have a decent number.
But if you can generate some table, with loot results for 100 runs of the same mission, and look what there is of even halfway useful, you will see that at most 1 mission in 20 give a decent module, the rest is only usefol for reprocessing.
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Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.04 19:41:00 -
[40]
I think forcing players to do thing is stupid. The thing that's nice about EVE is that there's no one way to play it. Some people can be hardcore, others can be casual. I can sit in empire space and have my fun for less risk/reward and some hardcore mofo in losec can earn alot more isk and he'll need it because he'll be losing more ships. That's cool. But it's utter stupidty to force casual players into the snakepit where they'll just serve as raw meat for the obsessive twink players.
To my way of thinking, it's like taking a gambling cruise. I wouldn't mind putting down $20 in the casino with the understanding I could lose the lot of it. I'd be less happy about it if the sum were $200 or $2000. Similarly, I think it's fun to go lowsec ratting in a ship I can afford to lose while running the risk that some rat basard will come gunning for me. But it's not fun to be told I HAVE to go there and I HAVE to risk an expensive ship. And the problem with the play balancing issue is that the people who want to PVP are equipped for PVP and will spank any PVE player. I wouldn't mind the risk if the combat system were more balanced but it seems like money wins the day. The guy in a 200mil ship with another 100mil in implants will always win over the cheaper ship, thus giving him an unassailable advantage. And if a target comes along that has a chance of taking him, he can always scoot and save his ship. How much risk is there in that? I don't mind a fair fight, I just haven't quite figured out a way to make the fight fair yet.
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Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.05 03:18:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Zrakor That's the first I've heard of any general loot nerf. Are you sure it's not just the occasional bad luck? I don't think the loot tables were modified in these last few patches, but I'll forward this thread inhouse just incase.
I can't tell you what's sitting there in your tables but I can tell you what I see and it ain't much. Typically I can pick up at least one kewl item per mission. It's the part of the game I really like, it's like an easter egg hunt. It's so nice when I don't have to buy the expensive stuff. I haven't been on in a while and I only picked it up post patch. Ugh ugh ugh. Drops seem totally nerfed. I do not have a fat bankroll and it looks like I'd have to fly a ship I couldn't affod to lose just to be in the lowsec game -- and I'd probably still lose the smegging thing because the pvp'ers there have ten times the isk I do to put into something like that. Not fun.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.05 04:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zrakor That's the first I've heard of any general loot nerf. Are you sure it's not just the occasional bad luck? I don't think the loot tables were modified in these last few patches, but I'll forward this thread inhouse just incase.
I have found the volume of loot from missions has decreased massively Before where a good few days whoring would get you 25km3 loot now I am lucky to get 1/4 of that.
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Loki Farseer
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Posted - 2007.02.05 05:31:00 -
[43]
Ladies and Gentlemen.... the core issue isn't whether or not loot drops in lvl 4 missions have been nerfed (they have). And honestly the real reason is because of the added salvage loot to keep the total isk amounts of the missions KINDA equal.... No CCP was much sneakier then all that... They have added yet another TIME-SINK(tm) in both skills and mission time. First it was cruise through, pop ships, bm rooms, turn mission in, mwd/tractor cans and on to the next...
Now it is cruise through pop ships, bm rooms, turn in, tractor wrecks (ALL of them loot or no since they MIGHT have salvage), loot them, wait for lag..., salvage them, wait for lag to turn salvagers off, grab another bunch of wrecks and repeat.
You can speed this up with a dedicated salvage boat following through missions looting and salvaging for you for a split. But honestly they added a ****-ton of time to making money in missions.
CCP I have an idea for the next mission nerf: Just kill all the high-sec agents (selective virus, they all got sick of empire-space and moved, they all drink the purple kool-aid together and shuffled off the mortal coil... whatever, and have them get jump-cloned in low-sec... I mean thats the Ultimate Goal, everyone in low-sec.
Sigh... You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Quit ****ING with the way people play the game! if I wanna go low-sec and join a player corp I WILL. Forcing people to by changing the in-game dynamic is just going to make certain parts of the eve populace to leave, and really unbalance the game.
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Wicked Spider
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Posted - 2007.02.05 08:54:00 -
[44]
zrakor the mission loot has become much worse in the last 2 patches. named loot is hardly available - BS drops (sometimes) things like small modules small NOS etc.. and 70% you will get ALOT of Ab's and remote reper's.
its a fact that there is something wrong with the loot table, unless you guys changed it and forgot the mention it in the release notes.
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TomB
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Posted - 2007.02.05 09:03:00 -
[45]
There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
TomB Lead Designer EVE Online . |
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Layla Ashley
Amarr Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2007.02.05 09:04:00 -
[46]
i still get the same loot as bevor. not to mention the hundreds of mio of isk i make with the rigs out of looted parts
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Kaptein Trefot
Caldari Calista Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.05 09:48:00 -
[47]
Not that I loot much but I havent noticed any drop in loot rate from Battleships at least. It is however a bit more timeconsuming to loot now as you have to unlock every looted wreck. A setting that auto-unlock looted wrecks would come a loong way to fix that.
A few new models of tractor beams (faster and with better range) minght be in order too as its more pofitable for fast mission-runners to rush missions and not loot at all. If you make looting more time-efficient that will change.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Seeing it from the receiving end, the change exists. Those can be a side effect of some other change, like adding the salvage and/or the new modules (assault missiles and sensor enhancers).
I think the best test can be generating the loot of a good number of missions and look what can be found in them, not looking the database. For experience in others fields, what can seem a perfect distribuitions looking the original data, will have a bad spread after being randomly distribuited.
Whitout meaning offence, I think you (the developers) have lost the contact with what the mission runners get as loot as you, understandably after testing them for bug 100 times, don't run mission in Tranquility and I dubt will loot while testing them.
Personally, if a reduction in rewards is needed, I will prefer a reduction in the bounties while keeping the loot abundant. The end result will be the same, but gettin some good item is more satisfying that increasing number in wallet.
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Wicked Spider
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:24:00 -
[49]
i agree with venkul. the only way to see this is to run mission for a week or even more and write down the loot you get. i pretty much sure that you will get the items that are in the DB but the reocurrance of the drops may be worth looking into.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:26:00 -
[50]
I would have to agree with the Devs here. At least for me, loot has not changed one bit. It has ALWAYS been the current 'crap or nothing' for deadspace NPC-pirate missions. I get the same loot from a Vengeance now as I did one year ago.
What has changed, even though a while ago, is the removal of the non-deadspace missions, and later their replacement with deadspace variants.
So for example one old pirate slaughter of the non-deadspace variety yielded tons and tons of sometimes even good loot because it had asteroid pirates. Now the new pirate slaughter is deadspace and has deadspace pirates, and yields next to nothing. Same for other missions affected by this kind of delayed conversion. Maybe that gives people the perception that the loot tables have been nerfed, while indeed it was the mission itself that was nerfed.
The missions against empire factions still drop a lot and sometimes decent loot too. If you don't do these because of faction standing loss... Well, your loss. Can't have everything :P --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Mrski Okupator
Amarr Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:16:00 -
[51]
Last three Sansha Battletowers I blew up included 2* frig MWD, 2*small nos I, small knave nos, 1* tachyon I, 2*dual large pulse, med rep I and some M/L chrystals.
The accompanying named BS spawn (2.5 mil bounty) gave a MWD, crystals and a shield booster!?
Gallentean Navy something used to drop nifty cargo expanders. Haven't seen one in a while.
Will resort to pirating?
Cry Me A River Inc. We Care. For a small donation. |
Veryez
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Veryez on 05/02/2007 12:20:47
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Very well, I guess mine was just an isolated case. Thanks to you and Zrakor for your responses here.
Edit: spelling
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SilentSentinel
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Posted - 2007.02.05 13:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Did Guristas Spies lvl 4 yesterday in from my Aramachi agent and an NPC BS spawn dropped a small nos. LOL
Cheers
SS
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Liquid Vision
Caldari Liquid Research
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Liquid Vision on 05/02/2007 16:09:33
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Why is it that I believe you less than I believe George Bush?
I mean, something HAS to have been changed. Whether on purpose or by accident, it's happened.
I ran the storyline 'A Case of Kidnapping' like 2 weeks ago or so and got 30 mill just in loot offa it. I ran it 2 days ago and I got 2 mill in loot offa it. That's a DRASTIC difference. Now, I normally would chalk that up to just freaky bad luck, but I've been running my other lvl 4s and having the exact same things happen. Where Enemies Abound would drop mega loot (rightly so considering the difficulty and no bounties) now I'm lucky if the BS'es even drop tags to sell.
Look into it TomB. We're not making this stuff up. Thanks for finally giving me my damn picture! |
ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
I beg to differ. Sheer volume of loot has reduced drastically. It's so obvious it's not even a matter of debate.
Also on drone missions, you used to get a up to 2k zyd, now the amount is in the low hundreds.
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Liquid Vision Edited by: Liquid Vision on 05/02/2007 16:09:33
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Why is it that I believe you less than I believe George Bush?
I mean, something HAS to have been changed. Whether on purpose or by accident, it's happened.
I ran the storyline 'A Case of Kidnapping' like 2 weeks ago or so and got 30 mill just in loot offa it. I ran it 2 days ago and I got 2 mill in loot offa it. That's a DRASTIC difference. Now, I normally would chalk that up to just freaky bad luck, but I've been running my other lvl 4s and having the exact same things happen. Where Enemies Abound would drop mega loot (rightly so considering the difficulty and no bounties) now I'm lucky if the BS'es even drop tags to sell.
Look into it TomB. We're not making this stuff up.
How about some cheese. *sigh*
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Liquid Vision
Caldari Liquid Research
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Originally by: Liquid Vision Edited by: Liquid Vision on 05/02/2007 16:09:33
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Why is it that I believe you less than I believe George Bush?
I mean, something HAS to have been changed. Whether on purpose or by accident, it's happened.
I ran the storyline 'A Case of Kidnapping' like 2 weeks ago or so and got 30 mill just in loot offa it. I ran it 2 days ago and I got 2 mill in loot offa it. That's a DRASTIC difference. Now, I normally would chalk that up to just freaky bad luck, but I've been running my other lvl 4s and having the exact same things happen. Where Enemies Abound would drop mega loot (rightly so considering the difficulty and no bounties) now I'm lucky if the BS'es even drop tags to sell.
Look into it TomB. We're not making this stuff up.
How about some cheese. *sigh*
Have you ever seen a troller a troller a troller. . .
Haaaaaaaaaaaave you ever seen a troller well there's one right here.
Thanks for finally giving me my damn picture! |
Dvaren
Caldari Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:50:00 -
[58]
/signed
Theres been a drastic reduction not only in cubic meters of loot, but also in the quality of said loot. Previously, I was forced to upgrade to a 1400m/3 cargo bay capable ship to make the loot runs in one trip. This was before salvage even existed. It's rare now for me to even fill this dedicated loot ship, and rarer still to be forced into a second run (with the rare exception of multiple cap booster 800 drops). This is after salvage was added. Reducing the salvage m/3 makes this problem appear worse than it is, of course, but the core problem is still the same.
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Dvaren
Caldari Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:50:00 -
[59]
/signed
Theres been a drastic reduction not only in cubic meters of loot, but also in the quality of said loot. Previously, I was forced to upgrade to a 1400m/3 cargo bay capable ship to make the loot runs in one trip. This was before salvage even existed. It's rare now for me to even fill this dedicated loot ship, and rarer still to be forced into a second run (with the rare exception of multiple cap booster 800 drops). This is after salvage was added. Reducing the salvage m/3 makes this problem appear worse than it is, of course, but the core problem is still the same.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:59:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Liquid Vision Edited by: Liquid Vision on 05/02/2007 16:09:33
Originally by: TomB There have been absolutely no changes to loot on NPC's besides the normal bug fixes (battleship NPC dropping small nos..).
Why is it that I believe you less than I believe George Bush?
I mean, something HAS to have been changed. Whether on purpose or by accident, it's happened.
I ran the storyline 'A Case of Kidnapping' like 2 weeks ago or so and got 30 mill just in loot offa it. I ran it 2 days ago and I got 2 mill in loot offa it. That's a DRASTIC difference. Now, I normally would chalk that up to just freaky bad luck, but I've been running my other lvl 4s and having the exact same things happen. Where Enemies Abound would drop mega loot (rightly so considering the difficulty and no bounties) now I'm lucky if the BS'es even drop tags to sell.
Look into it TomB. We're not making this stuff up.
Well that is odd. My Enemies Abound yields exactly the same good loot as always. My Infiltrated Outposts usually give me 1500ish Zyd. And the Deadspace pirate missions have such crappy loot that I don't even take it unless I salvage. And all this has been the same for about 1.5 years... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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