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R4VE
3rd Field Engineer Regiment
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Posted - 2007.02.04 22:36:00 -
[31]
I think nerfing local in low sec and 0.0 would make the game more interesting not only for pirates but everyone in general. |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.02.04 22:42:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: R4VE
I think nerfing local in low sec and 0.0 would make the game more interesting not only for pirates but everyone in general.
EVE is interesting enough with local for me, thanks.
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Kun'mi
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Posted - 2007.02.05 00:54:00 -
[33]
Here's the FACTS on how low sec hunting goes.
People are mining/ratting/whatever in belts in low sec system
Pirate jumps in. He's -5 sec.
Everyone that doesn't want to die SS's or docks.
Pirate spends 5 mins scanning system finding nothing.
Low sec piracy has been reduced to ganking people at gates. This is not possible for many, because it is difficult to tank a target and sentry guns in most ships. (Especially low-skill ships like t1 cruisers)
The ONLY way I can get kills in low sec now is by finding some idiot sitting in a belt that was too noobish to watch local. Those people are usually newbs and arn't worth killing anyway.
If local was OPTIONAL to join or not, pirating would be easier, in that alarm bells don't start going off as soon as you enter system.
Another thing: People that whine about pirates killing everything in sight...That's what we DO! We kill all ships for two reasons. The first is for the killmail, who doesn't like +1 killmail in inbox? Second reason is that EVERY target has the POTENTIAL to have valuable loot. I've killed t1 frigs and cruisers with faction mods in them. I once killed a shuttle transporting a T1 cruiser BPO, netting me millions of ISK. THAT'S why we kill everything, not just for the fun of it, but for the chance to get ISK.
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MMoroz
Stercus Accidit.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:57:00 -
[34]
Ok guys i would like to make a little summary.
First this is a bug, local shouldn`t work like this - but so far it is accpeted by ccp.
Second some of posters here have small idea about low-sec you can earn good money( no idea about mining  ) in low-sec ofc if you commpare it with running 10/10 in 0.0 it is **** but no many people can run them.
Ok getting to the point - as some people pointed fighting in low-sec right now is about gate camping( i don`t like it personnaly ). You ask why? - latest changes in local - you don`t have to even check my info i jump to system you see me with skull on local you run to ss/station in 3s( and to all people saying that i could fix my sec status - pirates are part of this game so i should be able play one ). Furthermore you see more people "whining"( as some of you call it ) about blobs - cause right now fights mostly looks like this - fixing local will help a much cause we will have more unpredictable/suprising figths. Some of you asked or told why i am not moving to 0.0 - because 0.0 is right now mostly about blobs and the reason is local chat you can`t strike and dissapear cause it is easy to follow you by local.
So:
-this is bug
-i pointed you few arguments that fixing this won`t mean doom for you( one carebear agrred with that - he propsed slightly a diffrent change but it is the same ), ofc if you are playing alone it might be a problem but this is mmo - people disagreeing had no arguments only that they don`t like it( and this is BUG ). You can say so if we can set scouts and know the minute you jump to system that you are here what is the point nothing changes - i won`t to fight with you and your skills i can`t fight this bug
-EVE will be much more fun we will have more small fights, right now lots of people just refuse fighting and dock or blob like hell - if we change local they will have to fight cause they will be sometimes caught by suprise. Of course it they prepared them self( few friends on local or close system ) they will be able to spank stupid pirate. Remember for lots of people EVE is about pvp-ing( i joined this game because of that ) but right now pvp in eve is about ganking stations/gates and blobing in 90% - and it is getting really boring.
-Hey you can say "**** it it is a bug but i like it" - but as i said without pirates noone will buy stuff you are producing and if we can`t fight there is no reason for us to stay in this game.
P.S.
I am not against fights of big blobs i am against 1vBLOB - and it is more common in EVE with every day.
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Atreides Horza
Soar Angelic
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MMoroz
CCP could you just turn it off( or change to other type of chat like alliance-chat ) in low-sec and 0.0.
Yep i am a pirate.So after this sort introduction let`s move on.
The way i see it right now i jump to system and most of people move to ss/stations. I won`t be talking about why i want it( cause i don`t have to convince myself Razz ) - i just don`t want to be seen, and it is logical this is not empire so i should be able to move unseen( plus suprise form time to time is fun too ) . Ok now i need to convince the rest of youSmile:
A)this is artificial and stupid( it is chat not intel tool - at least it shouldn`t be ) - i don`t think anyone can argue with that
Low-sec( some of this point are true for 0.0 too ):
B)let say that i am camping gate in my pimpy MEGA killing your haulers - you want to do something about it. But now if i see that 10-20 of you jumping to my system( and i just killed your hauler ) i may consider jumping to SS. Even if i moved to ss - if you jump to system and secure gates( for example from other sides ) you can easier find me with your probes - cause i am not suspecting anything.
C)Ok you have mining op - if there is no local if i attack you i have no idea if your 5 buddies aren`t sitting on long ss or cloaked in bs/carriers/ecm ships( whatever ) - so setting traps for ****ing you off pirates will be much easier )
To summarize this part remember in 99% your corps/alliances are much bigger than pirate/wannabepirate/..-corps - if you COOPERATE( and this game is about it, and i think that especially in industry it is really important ) - you can set scouts on all gates, few people as protection and mining-squadCool. You have better intel than me( more people, more eyes ).
Beside i first have to locate you - and notice that without local i don`t even know if someone is in system. Even if i see something on scanner it is really hard to tell apart which ships are docked on some pos and wchich are active( during that time you can prepare your defence - ofc you should start it earlier when your scouts noticed pirates ).
I think( really, i know some of you won`t believe - but fighting with people who knows how to fight is funnier( even if i die in end ) than killing your retriever - at least for me ) that it will be easier for you to defend yourself and continue your operations without delays - ofc if you will cooperate as CORP( but this is mmo so it is about cooperation ).
Now about 0.0( besides points above ):
-If you are really defending your territory without local chat and statistics it will be easier for you - cause simply you have more information than enemies. You just need to put scouts on entrance points tell them to follow, you can easy set traps with 60+ ships and enemies won`t be suspecting this cause they don`t see your people on local. They will be moving through darkness without a light and you can easy set wall on their way( wiht spikes if you want ).
-Fleet fights will bo more interesting, intel will be even more importans etc.
Now to "dear" CCP:
IT IS EASY so don`t put it in KALI 5 you just need to change type of local chat - like 1 minute job.
... ... and then you meet a 2003 player in a pilgrim, popping up cloaked behind you as you think you're alone, turning your fine ship into a sombrero with your pod on top of it - and it's all:
"CCP! Can you please turn the local back on?"
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Ovno ConSyquence
British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:45:00 -
[36]
Agree with op on this one, make local in low sec and 0.0 like the alliance chat windows: you only show up if you say something, but the number goes up everytime someone joins it.
That way you get warning that "someone" has entered the system (or logged on in the system) giving you the chance to start scanning etc... And it means that all sorts of sneakyness can be done thats impossible now...
Though if there not going to do that, this region chat instead of local in 0.0 sounds brilliant :)
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KaerBerohs
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:54:00 -
[37]
I'm a carebear and I agree that the local gives me away just as much as it gives the pirate away. I dont like the though of having to use the scanner every 2 minutes, so I subscribe to one of the ideas said here.
The scan detector. Much like modern airplanes have a radar lock warning, you could have a module that acts like a scanner detector. If you were scanned, it would warn you. It wouldn't tell you who scanned and I'm sure you can see that it wouldn't be anything close to a secure method since you'd be getting alot of "false-positives".
Some other carebear jumps in, scans the system, you get a warning and it was not a pirate. After that, it's your choice to either use the scanner right back at them and lose those 2 minutes checking if it was a pirate. But by then if it was a pirate, he'll be warping to you already.
I think this option opens up the piracy issue a bit more and leaves the "cat and mouse" game up to the players. If you want to be jumpy and paranoid, jump to the station on every scan... if you've got some backup, just stay and risk it!
Just my 2 cents
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Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:59:00 -
[38]
I have a solution....I want a constant scanner!
One where we can set the warnings to red or blue!
One where we can set to show what types of ships are in system!
One That allows us to see the ****s of Eve as they come to gank us!
Now you know people have been *****ing about local for years! And its still here! Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Arthe Xavier
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:07:00 -
[39]
I am still pretty new to the game, and while I know nothing about low-sec pirating, I kind of like the idea of being invincible in 0.0 local.
The idea that you'd see the number of people ( through local ), but not their identities intrigues me. That could really work and give a sense of 'excitement and anticipation'.
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Topaz Skydiver
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:12:00 -
[40]
Yes, if they remove local, there needs to be a replacement other than just the system scanner. Noone wants to hammer the system scanner every few seconds for hours.
And if people suggest to secure all gates with camps, whenever someone wants to mine and rat, that's just too much effort and unrealistic. People would rather run missions in empire.
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KaerBerohs
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Now you know people have been *****ing about local for years! And its still here! Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!
Being there for years doesn't make it right. Something being there for a long time, means that older players learned to live with it, but that doesn't make it right in any way.
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
Indeed, but at this moment there's a method of detecting pirates in 0.0 without having to do anything but look at the local channel. MMORPGs are about balance, and there's a bit of an uneven balance at the moment. This is normal as it's not excepted to be perfect, as even perfect is subject to interpretation.
Following the storyline and immersing yourself in the EVE reality, it makes no sense to have a way to see everyone that's in given system without having to make some sort of scan or having to lose some time with it. Pretty much as you walking in a department store and automatically knowing who's there too, even those behind curtains trying some clothes on. Makes little to no sense. In empire space, you can setup some storyline to allow for the local chat, something like the empire space is controlled and they register everyone who jumps in automatically.
For 0.0 systems, and I'd like to point out that my sugestions have been for 0.0 only and still following the imersion in the eve reality, since it's uncontrolled space, who registered you into to the local channel unless you did it yourself?
Another solution for not removing the local channel is just delay joining the local for 5 minutes. If you're just "passing through", you'll have more than enough time to go from A to B without anyone even knowing you were there, unless they are camping at the gates. If you're a pirate, you get 5 minutes to locate your victims and do your thing, after that, you're made and that system will know you're there. If you're a carebear, you'll have to suck it up and just get used to the idea that 0.0 has risks involved!
I said 5 minutes, but that could be easily put down to 3 minutes. I guess it's more than enough time to find someone if you want to!
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KaerBerohs
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Now you know people have been *****ing about local for years! And its still here! Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!
Being there for years doesn't make it right. Something being there for a long time, means that older players learned to live with it, but that doesn't make it right in any way.
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
Indeed, but at this moment there's a method of detecting pirates in 0.0 without having to do anything but look at the local channel. MMORPGs are about balance, and there's a bit of an uneven balance at the moment. This is normal as it's not excepted to be perfect, as even perfect is subject to interpretation.
Following the storyline and immersing yourself in the EVE reality, it makes no sense to have a way to see everyone that's in given system without having to make some sort of scan or having to lose some time with it. Pretty much as you walking in a department store and automatically knowing who's there too, even those behind curtains trying some clothes on. Makes little to no sense. In empire space, you can setup some storyline to allow for the local chat, something like the empire space is controlled and they register everyone who jumps in automatically.
For 0.0 systems, and I'd like to point out that my sugestions have been for 0.0 only and still following the imersion in the eve reality, since it's uncontrolled space, who registered you into to the local channel unless you did it yourself?
Another solution for not removing the local channel is just delay joining the local for 5 minutes. If you're just "passing through", you'll have more than enough time to go from A to B without anyone even knowing you were there, unless they are camping at the gates. If you're a pirate, you get 5 minutes to locate your victims and do your thing, after that, you're made and that system will know you're there. If you're a carebear, you'll have to suck it up and just get used to the idea that 0.0 has risks involved!
I said 5 minutes, but that could be easily put down to 3 minutes. I guess it's more than enough time to find someone if you want to!
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Gibmundur
Amarr
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:35:00 -
[43]
I like this idea, only for the simple thing that it makes 0.0 npcing farmers in xelas vulnerable to getting killed instead of logging of instantly when someone neutral/hostile jumps in, damn macro's.
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Gibmundur
Amarr
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:35:00 -
[44]
I like this idea, only for the simple thing that it makes 0.0 npcing farmers in xelas vulnerable to getting killed instead of logging of instantly when someone neutral/hostile jumps in, damn macro's.
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Lootcatcher
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:38:00 -
[45]
The gates register all incoming and outgoing traffic. Local is what the gates broadcast. Maybe you want sec status removed from portraits too, oh wait thats what removing local effectively does.
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Lootcatcher
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:38:00 -
[46]
The gates register all incoming and outgoing traffic. Local is what the gates broadcast. Maybe you want sec status removed from portraits too, oh wait thats what removing local effectively does.
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:42:00 -
[47]
I used to be part of the anti-local group, but i have since realised that with the current tools it would be impossible to defend a system. Unless you camp every acces point 23/7, and even then some nanowhatevers can still slip trough, it would suck.
Originally by: Deja Thoris
The dead horse has now been flogged into puree.
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:42:00 -
[48]
I used to be part of the anti-local group, but i have since realised that with the current tools it would be impossible to defend a system. Unless you camp every acces point 23/7, and even then some nanowhatevers can still slip trough, it would suck.
Originally by: Deja Thoris
The dead horse has now been flogged into puree.
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:45:00 -
[49]
how about change local to delayed chat just like custom chat channels - then if you chose to break radio silence you just exposed your presence in the system
or make a new POS module "system scanner" and it priodicaly scans the system and reports to all present in the system who is in local
i agree 0.0 should have no local (optional)...
and no im not a pirate - it works both ways the ycant see me i cant see them it adds to the excitement :)
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Manczech
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: KaerBerohs
If you're a carebear, you'll have to suck it up and just get used to the idea that 0.0 has risks involved!
Eh, what say we continue to let pirates and spies suck it? There really doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to change the way things are in this regard.
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KaerBerohs
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Manczech
Originally by: KaerBerohs
If you're a carebear, you'll have to suck it up and just get used to the idea that 0.0 has risks involved!
Eh, what say we continue to let pirates and spies suck it? There really doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to change the way things are in this regard.
I was talking about putting things at an even balance! I was not sugesting just removing the local and that's it. I was sugesting removing the local and giving people the tools to play the game with even odds for both sides!
But I guess some people are just too stubborn to change. :) Anyway, it's just my 2 cents, dont mind them since they wont change anything in the near future. We're just discussing some ideas since that's what forums are for!
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Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.05 14:27:00 -
[52]
If CCP is willing to give sensor systems the complete overhaul that they need, I'm all for removing local.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:01:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 05/02/2007 14:58:59
the problem with removing local is that it would become a royal pain in the ass finding targets.
PvPer enters system. Scans at a planet. Warps into a belt in direction of his scan and insted of finding targets, ends up finding nothing then relises that the ships were at a pos someware.
Remember the Objective. - The whole point of removing local is to increase the number of engagements, including those not at a gate.
So why dont we solve this then? Start firing out Courier Missions requiring Jaspet. Start making serious trade goods in lowsec rather than the crap that is there. Bring in Freightor Sized Tradegoods, to force freightor pilots to make a run into dangerous territory, possibly with escorts. Move agents from stations to being in space around 200k from the station. Add in the risk factor and increase the reward.
In other words - Make low sec profitable and people will come in and you will have all the targets you need. Nerfing local will remove targets - not increase it.
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Cipher7
Acme Technologies Incorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:11:00 -
[54]
What's the alternative?
Sitting there with the scanner open pressing it every 2 seconds?
Maybe get a decent sec rating, a less threatening bio and don't operate in the same area all the time?
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Kruugore
Minmatar
Vigilant Justice
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:15:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kruugore on 05/02/2007 15:15:18
Originally by: R4VE
I think nerfing local in low sec and 0.0 would make the game more interesting not only for pirates but everyone in general.
/disagree
I'm sure that sensors would be able to pick up jump gate activation. It kinda makes sense. At VERY LEAST sensors should be able to detect a jump into the system. Even if it doesn't show who it is.
The last thing we need are giving pirate griefers more advantage in discouraging people from venturing out in to low sec and 0.0...
unless you want it to be empty.
Mr. K
VIGILANT JUSTICE
CEO/FOUNDER |
umop 3pisdn
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:21:00 -
[56]
Removing local = lose...
It would be nice when out PVPing if everyone didnt insta safespot but removing it altogether would just nerf all isk production, i love pvp but i need to spend hours grinding out the isk for it in belts regularly, this gets interupted by people hunting a lot and thats fine, i warp off, they leave, i go back to what i was doing... without local the game dies because A) i cant see people coming, i lose my ratting ship once a day and cant afford this for more than a week, i go back to empire, cut my wrists and cancel my subscription (hell i'd move right to Jita too...)
B) I go hunting, i go 30 jumps, scanning every system throughly, this takes roughly 12 weeks, I find a guy, but he has a stab and warps off.. i curse my luck are realise eve is dead ... WoW starts looking good to me... when i realise this i promptly throw myself off a bridge.
In my opinion not good options... If you inhabit the vast emptiness of 0.0 then you find targets using local and then scanning for people or just by vising your enemies favourite haunts...
Killing local would stop people safespotting and let me gank their ratting/minning ships but come on.. i get 3 minutes of fun and they get a day or 2 of grinding to fully replace their ****... eve = dead as soon as that patch hits the fan.
It would also make blobbing more prevalent (hard to do i know...) and make people more paranoid and ****less...
If local were removed then perhaps it should exist in stations with outposts/stations... and the scanner needs to become a radar... always on, always looking over your shoulder for you...
ALSO... nerf low sec, whatever happens to local should stay in 0.0, no joy for the filthy low sec belt pirates ganking 3 week old noobs 
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umop 3pisdn
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:29:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence
Agree with op on this one, make local in low sec and 0.0 like the alliance chat windows: you only show up if you say something, but the number goes up everytime someone joins it.
That way you get warning that "someone" has entered the system (or logged on in the system) giving you the chance to start scanning etc... And it means that all sorts of sneakyness can be done thats impossible now...
Though if there not going to do that, this region chat instead of local in 0.0 sounds brilliant :)
Region chat is a TERRIBLE idea. Unless you like mining crokite, then its sweet, see your foes coming 3 jumps away? friggen awesome.
I do kinda like your idea about no names showing unless you speak... that would be nice in 0.0 perhaps... its nice to get peoples standings/info at a glance from their char sheet.. but i guess this does give unfair and unrealistic advantages.... i mean you click show info, first thing, what corp? ahuh, enemy, next thing D.O.B. 5 month old char, been in that corp for a week.. great... will never know what hit him...
I see some people saying it will benefit NPCers to be able to go unseen while ratting... it wont... it will just mean that the bored ****less NPCer will die to a roving gang more often because: the gang are focused, move fast, scan everything and move on...
The NPCer is booooored... not paying attention... and doesnt want to be killing rats, but the nature of eve forces them too to get teh isk to get teh sweet loots for their uber leet ships.
It ****s me when people see me coming in local and warp out... but really... ratting is so god damn boring that i still catch a lot.. by the time they're scrambled they are normally still ratting... why? cos it SUCKS. entertainment = 0 after 5 minutes... without local they have no hope in hell...
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Valan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:31:00 -
[58]
I think it should go. It would reduce the blobs which is what CCP are working towards. It would allow for a more tactical game. A new profession could be created 'the scout'. Large alliances wouldn't find so easy to control large areas of space that is largely not used, freeing up more 0.0.
Miners should be ok, they can fit stabs, nanos, stabilizers and stay aligned. Shouldn't be too difficult to get out.
Ratters may have a disadvantage but ratting is that easy you can fit to do a runner.
Would make it a lot easier to kill logging pirates.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
umop 3pisdn
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:37:00 -
[59]
Originally by: KaerBerohs
I'm a carebear and I agree that the local gives me away just as much as it gives the pirate away. I dont like the though of having to use the scanner every 2 minutes, so I subscribe to one of the ideas said here.
The scan detector. Much like modern airplanes have a radar lock warning, you could have a module that acts like a scanner detector. If you were scanned, it would warn you. It wouldn't tell you who scanned and I'm sure you can see that it wouldn't be anything close to a secure method since you'd be getting alot of "false-positives".
Some other carebear jumps in, scans the system, you get a warning and it was not a pirate. After that, it's your choice to either use the scanner right back at them and lose those 2 minutes checking if it was a pirate. But by then if it was a pirate, he'll be warping to you already.
I think this option opens up the piracy issue a bit more and leaves the "cat and mouse" game up to the players. If you want to be jumpy and paranoid, jump to the station on every scan... if you've got some backup, just stay and risk it!
Just my 2 cents
Very nice idea... would take a lot of out of game skill like the old scanner did though (but im sure CCP will replace this with random chance + rank 54 skill for no apparent reason.)
Very sonar like... needs a similar sound effect that gets louder/higher pitch the closer the scan originates from... but your idea is definately a winner 
Would be nice to have a passive mode like this as well as "always on" active mode to let you ping them first... since NPCs have been removed from scan it shouldnt be too hard to do...
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:46:00 -
[60]
Removing local intel without replacing it with a similar system would make EvE into the ultimate griefers paradise:
1. Miners with Heavy support group, You warp in on them, pop the miners and be outta there (buh bye hulks).
2. Ratters, will fly in larger groups, in response gankers will come in larger groups.
3. Gatecamping will get worse then it is now.
Simply turning off local is a terrible thing for the game. The game would need a radical change (radar?) to give you intell of what is around you, but that changes only very little so might as well leave local as it is now and spend those development resources on something worthwhile.
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The BIG Lottery |
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