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CCP could you fix local at last - i mean turn it off in lowsec and 0.0

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MMoroz Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:22:00 - [1] CCP could you just turn it off( or change to other type of chat like alliance-chat ) in low-sec and 0.0. Yep i am a pirate.So after this sort introduction let`s move on. The way i see it right now i jump to system and most of people move to ss/stations. I won`t be talking about why i want it( cause i don`t have to convince myself Razz ) - i just don`t want to be seen, and it is logical this is not empire so i should be able to move unseen( plus suprise form time to time is fun too ) . Ok now i need to convince the rest of youSmile: A)this is artificial and stupid( it is chat not intel tool - at least it shouldn`t be ) - i don`t think anyone can argue with that Low-sec( some of this point are true for 0.0 too ): B)let say that i am camping gate in my pimpy MEGA killing your haulers - you want to do something about it. But now if i see that 10-20 of you jumping to my system( and i just killed your hauler ) i may consider jumping to SS. Even if i moved to ss - if you jump to system and secure gates( for example from other sides ) you can easier find me with your probes - cause i am not suspecting anything. C)Ok you have mining op - if there is no local if i attack you i have no idea if your 5 buddies aren`t sitting on long ss or cloaked in bs/carriers/ecm ships( whatever ) - so setting traps for ****ing you off pirates will be much easier ) To summarize this part remember in 99% your corps/alliances are much bigger than pirate/wannabepirate/..-corps - if you COOPERATE( and this game is about it, and i think that especially in industry it is really important ) - you can set scouts on all gates, few people as protection and mining-squadCool. You have better intel than me( more people, more eyes ). Beside i first have to locate you - and notice that without local i don`t even know if someone is in system. Even if i see something on scanner it is really hard to tell apart which ships are docked on some pos and wchich are active( during that time you can prepare your defence - ofc you should start it earlier when your scouts noticed pirates ). I think( really, i know some of you won`t believe - but fighting with people who knows how to fight is funnier( even if i die in end ) than killing your retriever - at least for me ) that it will be easier for you to defend yourself and continue your operations without delays - ofc if you will cooperate as CORP( but this is mmo so it is about cooperation ). Now about 0.0( besides points above ): -If you are really defending your territory without local chat and statistics it will be easier for you - cause simply you have more information than enemies. You just need to put scouts on entrance points tell them to follow, you can easy set traps with 60+ ships and enemies won`t be suspecting this cause they don`t see your people on local. They will be moving through darkness without a light and you can easy set wall on their way( wiht spikes if you want ). -Fleet fights will bo more interesting, intel will be even more importans etc. Now to "dear" CCP: IT IS EASY so don`t put it in KALI 5 you just need to change type of local chat - like 1 minute job.
RogueWing GIT-R-DUN Southern Connection	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:25:00 - [2] Look Ma! I'm in a "Local" whine thread. .....now to go find a "nano" whine thread.... [G-R-D].....we've buried 50 kittens up to their necks in the yard......join us or we get out the lawn mower.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:31:00 - [3] nope, local aint great but i think its fine atm and should stay as is
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:39:00 - [4] Ever think that maybe looking less piratey would help you actually surprise people? The whole "Yarr, I like booty" bio's coupled with the standing of -10.0 aren't exactly subtle.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:43:00 - [5] Agreed with the OP tbh. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Kerushi Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:56:00 - [6] if u would stop blowing up every single person u find in low sec, new ppl might come who don`t when to hide so many pirates roaming and killing anyone they can find, did u really expect every one to just sit and wait till they get blown up or get to safety? i wonder when ppl start to whine that they can`t go to low sec for whatever reason cause of the pirates just blowing every one up on sight 11.5m carebear sale
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:02:00 - [7] Originally by: MMoroz CCP could you just turn it off( or change to other type of chat like alliance-chat ) in low-sec and 0.0. Yep i am a pirate.So after this sort introduction let`s move on. The way i see it right now i jump to system and most of people move to ss/stations. I won`t be talking about why i want it( cause i don`t have to convince myself Razz ) - i just don`t want to be seen, and it is logical this is not empire so i should be able to move unseen( plus suprise form time to time is fun too ) . Ok now i need to convince the rest of youSmile: A)this is artificial and stupid( it is chat not intel tool - at least it shouldn`t be ) - i don`t think anyone can argue with that Low-sec( some of this point are true for 0.0 too ): B)let say that i am camping gate in my pimpy MEGA killing your haulers - you want to do something about it. But now if i see that 10-20 of you jumping to my system( and i just killed your hauler ) i may consider jumping to SS. Even if i moved to ss - if you jump to system and secure gates( for example from other sides ) you can easier find me with your probes - cause i am not suspecting anything. C)Ok you have mining op - if there is no local if i attack you i have no idea if your 5 buddies aren`t sitting on long ss or cloaked in bs/carriers/ecm ships( whatever ) - so setting traps for **ing you off pirates will be much easier ) To summarize this part remember in 99% your corps/alliances are much bigger than pirate/wannabepirate/..-corps - if you COOPERATE( and this game is about it, and i think that especially in industry it is really important ) - you can set scouts on all gates, few people as protection and mining-squadCool. You have better intel than me( more people, more eyes ). Beside i first have to locate you - and notice that without local i don`t even know if someone is in system. Even if i see something on scanner it is really hard to tell apart which ships are docked on some pos and wchich are active( during that time you can prepare your defence - ofc you should start it earlier when your scouts noticed pirates ). I think( really, i know some of you won`t believe - but fighting with people who knows how to fight is funnier( even if i die in end ) than killing your retriever - at least for me ) that it will be easier for you to defend yourself and continue your operations without delays - ofc if you will cooperate as CORP( but this is mmo so it is about cooperation ). Now about 0.0( besides points above ): -If you are really defending your territory without local chat and statistics it will be easier for you - cause simply you have more information than enemies. You just need to put scouts on entrance points tell them to follow, you can easy set traps with 60+ ships and enemies won`t be suspecting this cause they don`t see your people on local. They will be moving through darkness without a light and you can easy set wall on their way( wiht spikes if you want ). -Fleet fights will bo more interesting, intel will be even more importans etc. Now to "dear" CCP: IT IS EASY so don`t put it in KALI 5 you just need to change type of local chat - like 1 minute job. Why dont you adjust as everyone else to the local channel? After all, the pirates are telling the "carebears" to adjust too with things. Seems perfectly plain to me that the agressator should adjust before the defender.. Originally by:** Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
DaveW Caldari South Park Development	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Ever think that maybe looking less piratey would help you actually surprise people? The whole "Yarr, I like booty" bio's coupled with the standing of -10.0 aren't exactly subtle. So you just had to give it away.... --------------------------------------------------- "If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen."
Khan Soriano Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:15:00 - [9] I don't shoot everyone on sight, only those who are stupid enough to get in my way. If you're too retarded to use the scanner once in a while I don't know if you deserve better than my ammo in your ass Local is making everything much harder since you can be even more moronic and live
MMoroz Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:16:00 - [10] Edited by: MMoroz on 04/02/2007 21:15:50 Guys if you could please stick to the Topic - i mean i point that local is broken, it was supposed to be chat now is intel tool. So far no arguments from you just: -one say i am whining - propably he say this in all posts -the rest has some personal problems with me despite i don`t know them, they don`t know me. Oh and i don`t know this "pirates" you are talking about Niccolado Starwalker - i don`t remind me telling carebears what they have to do( cause i don`t know a loat about it ). So if you don`t have anything to say stay quiet it is better that way. P.S. Btw in lots of discussion i saw this sentence: "pirates - without carebears noone would build you ship" and i agree but it has two sides "without pirates noone will buy this pimpy ships/mods you are producing carebears :P"

Kerushi Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Khan Soriano I don't shoot everyone on sight, only those who are stupid enough to get in my way. If you're too retarded to use the scanner once in a while I don't know if you deserve better than my ammo in your ass Local is making everything much harder since you can be even more moronic and live go back to CS 11.5m carebear sale
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:27:00 - [12] Turn it off? No. But there should be an option of not joining the local channel, maybe even an "eavesdrop option". To counter your "I'm a pirate" opener, I'm a carebear. I'm still skilling up my account, as it's not quite battle-ready yet. As such, I run missions, mine, rat, etc. I would really like to be able to not join local. I don't want a pirate to know I'm running around low-sec anymore than he wants me to know he's there. If I am not in local, that means he'll have to probe me out. Now, if I'm running missions or ratting, that's not a problem. If I'm mining, that could be a big problem, since that basically makes it an "I win" situation (pirate no in local = no way to know he's there). My suggestion for that is to add a new "probe" type for scan detection (and one for each radar type). It lasts 30 minutes, when an analysis is running, it's in "Listen mode". When analysis is done, it has a cooldown period to "re-adjust / realign the sensors" or something of a few of minutes (reduced by the scanning skills, but there should always be a slight window of non=scanning). The scanner won't tell you who scanned you, distance, etc; it'll just say "You've been scanned!". I think this would be a decent balance. A solo miner has to lose a laser in order to keep an eye out, or group up with friends / corp members who can drop the probes.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:29:00 - [13] Another pointless post about removing local to benefit the non pirates. Firstly lets point a few things out A) lowsec and 0.0 are very different, what is good for 0.0 is not neccesarilly good for lowsec. B) Lowsec is empire space, it is 100% NPC controlled and maintained. Now to the "local" problem... For 0.0: Remove local, fine, if 0.0 pilots want it gone then get rid of it however if you do then you also have to alter a few other things. The logoff trap would for example have to be adressed, as is you can vanish without a trace in a system by simply logging off, at present the only warning you can get to such a player logging back on in a guarded system is local, if a method to give an advanced warning that people are logging on in a system would be added then I think that can be taken care of. Im sure there are more such issues but I will leave it there. For lowsec: Why would lowsec not have local? like stated above lowsec is empire space, just not concord protected. The local channel is not a concord controled channel and thus should notvanish just because concord does not frequent the system. Sadly we see thise demands every few days, I would wager its mediocre pirate that has not managed to catch a target in a day or two and is upset because he isnt getting what he wants out of the game and rather than looking at the problem and looking at ways to solve it he runs to the forum and whines more than a "carebear" is claimed to whine. Mostly the demands are simple whines but at times posts such as this one comes along, posts that try to show the benefit for the other guy if the change he wants is done. As always its flawed reasoning at best and outright lies at worst. In this post I particularly like the part about non pirate corps being much bigger than pirate ones and that if they just cooperate and play a game they dont want to play they can take care of the pirates. The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. Yes,it is that simple.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:32:00 - [14] Just get a alt dude it makes it so very easy to pirate. Basicly scout them out with the alt.And just jump+warp to there exact location. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Fester Addams The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. I take offense to that statement. Half Assed Rhymage
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:35:00 - [16] Originally by: xeom Just get a alt dude it makes it so very easy to pirate. Basicly scout them out with the alt.And just jump+warp to there exact location. You shouldn't need to pay an extra $15 to pirate without every one docking once you enter the system . . . Half Assed Rhymage
MMoroz Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:42:00 - [17] Edited by: MMoroz on 04/02/2007 21:41:48 Originally by: Fester Addams Another pointless post about removing local to benefit the non pirates. Firstly lets point a few things out A) lowsec and 0.0 are very different, what is good for 0.0 is not neccesarilly good for lowsec. B) Lowsec is empire space, it is 100% NPC controlled and maintained. Now to the "local" problem... For 0.0: Remove local, fine, if 0.0 pilots want it gone then get rid of it however if you do then you also have to alter a few other things. The logoff trap would for example have to be adressed, as is you can vanish without a trace in a system by simply logging off, at present the only warning you can get to such a player logging back on in a guarded system is local, if a method to give an advanced warning that people are logging on in a system would be added then I think that can be taken care of. Im sure there are more such issues but I will leave it there. For lowsec: Why would lowsec not have local? like stated above lowsec is empire space, just not concord protected. The local channel is not a concord controled channel and thus should notvanish just because concord does not frequent the system. Sadly we see thise demands every few days, I would wager its mediocre pirate that has not managed to catch a target in a day or two and is upset because he isnt getting what he wants out of the game and rather than looking at the problem and looking at ways to solve it he runs to the forum and whines more than a "carebear" is claimed to whine. Mostly the demands are simple whines but at times posts such as this one comes along, posts that try to show the benefit for the other guy if the change he wants is done. As always its flawed reasoning at best and outright lies at worst. In this post I particularly like the part about non pirate corps being much bigger than pirate ones and that if they just cooperate and play a game they dont want to play they can take care of the pirates. The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. Yes,it is that simple. Sry but you are a person without arguments( in your words with flawed reasoning) first local is chat so i should be able to choose if i want join it or no. And low-sec isn`t empire cause outlaws live there - it`s kinda simple reasoning don`t you think, outlaws can`t enter empire( in empire concord forces can make me to join it - other way they will blow for example :P - but they do not exist in low-sec as their rules). And about real pvp-er live in 0.0 - no comment.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:45:00 - [18] Originally by: MMoroz Originally by: Fester Addams Another pointless post about removing local to benefit the non pirates. Firstly lets point a few things out A) lowsec and 0.0 are very different, what is good for 0.0 is not neccesarilly good for lowsec. B) Lowsec is empire space, it is 100% NPC controlled and maintained. Now to the "local" problem... For 0.0: Remove local, fine, if 0.0 pilots want it gone then get rid of it however if you do then you also have to alter a few other things. The logoff trap would for example have to be adressed, as is you can vanish without a trace in a system by simply logging off, at present the only warning you can get to such a player logging back on in a guarded system is local, if a method to give an advanced warning that people are logging on in a system would be added then I think that can be taken care of. Im sure there are more such issues but I will leave it there. For lowsec: Why would lowsec not have local? like stated above lowsec is empire space, just not concord protected. The local channel is not a concord controled channel and thus should notvanish just because concord does not frequent the system. Sadly we see thise demands every few days, I would wager its mediocre pirate that has not managed to catch a target in a day or two and is upset because he isnt getting what he wants out of the game and rather than looking at the problem and looking at ways to solve it he runs to the forum and whines more than a "carebear" is claimed to whine. Mostly the demands are simple whines but at times posts such as this one comes along, posts that try to show the benefit for the other guy if the change he wants is done. As always its flawed reasoning at best and outright lies at worst. In this post I particularly like the part about non pirate corps being much bigger than pirate ones and that if they just cooperate and play a game they dont want to play they can take care of the pirates. The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. Yes,it is that simple. Sry but you are a person without arguments( in your words with flawed reasoning) first local is chat so i should be able to choose if i want join it or no. And low-sec isn`t empire cause outlaws live there - it`s kinda simple reasoning don`t you think, outlaws can`t enter empire. And about real pvp-er live in 0.0 - no comment. Low Sec = Gang Slums in Los Angeles I.E. no one knows whats going on and the police aren't coming unless there is blood(the bodily fluid not the gang) involved. Half Assed Rhymage
FooB2 Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Fester Addams The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. that is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen on this forum. would you care to explain WHY people who pirate in low sec do it because they, as you put it "cant hack it" in 0.0? a LOT of -10 pirates i know have had extensive pirating careers in both 0.0 AND low sec. and anyone with half a brain can realise that it is much harder to pvp in low sec than it is in 0.0. we cant hack it in 0.0 because theres no sentry guns helping our targets? or we cant hack it in 0.0 because we can jump into high sec and buy everything we need? the most accomplished PVPers in the game live in low sec. but hey, im sure you're about to come up with more moronic statements that utterly prove me wrong... so lets see them. Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K
Gareth Angel Blue Star Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:54:00 - [20] A good pirate gets people in low-sec anyway, just not by the hundreds of em. You sir, must be a bad pirate. Local is fine, leave it the way it is.

xeom Veto.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Fester Addams The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. Please STFU I don't really do low-sec anymore and mostly stick to 0.0 right now.But i can tell ya your statement is BS. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.04 21:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Gareth Angel A good pirate gets people in low-sec anyway, just not by the hundreds of em. You sir, must be a bad pirate. Local is fine, leave it the way it is. Or we could make a compromise keep the dice roll probe system and we get to stay out of local. All because you can still get people in lowsec doesn't mean it is perfectly fine. It is a chat system gone wrong because all it is used for the majority of the time is intell which shouldn't be that readily available. Half Assed Rhymage
Rat Hubble Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:03:00 - [23] The simple flaw with the change local thing is that an aggressor will take about 2 minutes tops to scan round a system and find it's clean, he can then move on etc. Someone actually doing something in system has to continually monitor the scanner for the whole period of their activity, that is not hardly a benefit to both parties. I find it hard to see the "change local" wish as more than a "make the game more like like I want it" call.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Gareth Angel A good pirate gets people in low-sec anyway, just not by the hundreds of em. You sir, must be a bad pirate. Local is fine, leave it the way it is. Or we could make a compromise keep the dice roll probe system and we get to stay out of local. All because you can still get people in lowsec doesn't mean it is perfectly fine. It is a chat system gone wrong because all it is used for the majority of the time is intell which shouldn't be that readily available. What you fail to realize is that you will be shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to finding a target. Whats easier to do? Jump from belt to belt (or scan with a probe if you're serious about finding someone.) or look in local for victims? Admit it, you use local to find if anyone is in lowsec.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Gareth Angel A good pirate gets people in low-sec anyway, just not by the hundreds of em. You sir, must be a bad pirate. Local is fine, leave it the way it is. Or we could make a compromise keep the dice roll probe system and we get to stay out of local. All because you can still get people in lowsec doesn't mean it is perfectly fine. It is a chat system gone wrong because all it is used for the majority of the time is intell which shouldn't be that readily available. What you fail to realize is that you will be shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to finding a target. Whats easier to do? Jump from belt to belt (or scan with a probe if you're serious about finding someone.) or look in local for victims? Admit it, you use local to find if anyone is in lowsec. If I see a big minus sign next to some one in local I know I better take off as it is likely there will be ownage approaching Half Assed Rhymage
MMoroz Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Rat Hubble The simple flaw with the change local thing is that an aggressor will take about 2 minutes tops to scan round a system and find it's clean, he can then move on etc. Someone actually doing something in system has to continually monitor the scanner for the whole period of their activity, that is not hardly a benefit to both parties. I find it hard to see the "change local" wish as more than a "make the game more like like I want it" call. Sry but i pointed something about scouts on gates didn`t i - it is not a problem it can even be alts in sutles with noob skills. Now you can say i can make alt with covert but after two/three days all corps in region will now his name so i need another one-two month to make another. Second scanning in two minutes depend on system and more important your ship - you can scan system( most of them ) in two minutes in ceptor( but ceptor is cpetor). And i need to check stations too and still don`t know if someone isn`t cloaked or just jumped in during this two minutes.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:16:00 - [27] Agreed with OP.
Apollo Kreed Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:20:00 - [28] I agree with the op. Local shouldn't be an intel gathering tool, especially in low sec and most especially in 0.0. I can see empire space having a system that tracks every pilot in the area and uploads that info to the pilots chat windows. I don't see that happening in 0.0 space. It just doesn't make sense to me and I feel that it's a form of meta gaming that breaks immersion.
Helmut Rul	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:29:00 - [29] Edited by: Helmut Rul on 04/02/2007 22:28:16 Personally i would not be adverse to Local only showing those who use it, After all it is kind of stupid that it is used as an early warning system. However if local is to be changed in this way then the starmap would have to be fixed too, One would need both jumps per hour and ships in system options to be removed, Thus making it hard to discover ships in deep space. Allowing for people to track someone without error and not allowing the "trackee" any possibility of realizing the danger would imbalance low-sec even further. Currently there is a vast difference between high-sec : low risk low payout, low-sec: very high risk with a slightly better payout and 0.0 with very high (if you are an intruder) to moderate risk (if you are in an alliance)and the best payout in the game. Simply put there is no good reason to be in low-sec at all for most people, changing parts of the game to allow for ambushes that will be very very hard to avoid will have most of those who already are there to stampede either to 0.0 or to high-sec.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 22:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Fester Addams [...] The fact is simple, people who want to PvP go to 0.0, the ones that cant hack it in 0.0 become pirates in lowsec. The people that for one or other reason are not overly interested in PvP stay in empire or join 0.0 alliances. Yes,it is that simple. No it isn't, your statement is clear and utter tripe. Go flush it down with the other fecalia, where it belongs. Thank you. On-topic: Some of the devs have supported to make 0.0 regional chat, I for one support this. [OMG! SMASH!]



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