As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself?

People already pay money... to wardec.

I think you misunderstood what the above reply is saying.. We have absolute choice so long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of other players. Your suggestion directly conflicts with this. You do have freedom to do anything you want within the game mechanics.. Wars are sanctioned by Concord and will not be interefered by them. You stated earlier on in your post that you just disbanded your corp when you were decced.. So after a measly 24 hours you are able to carry on with your hauling, is this not freedom?

As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself?

I have a suggestion for war decs. Few and far between they are for me but once more my corp has been war dec'd.

First time round I didn't stand a chance so just disbanded and if we get our asses kicked I'll probably do the same, the corp doesn't really have any real estate, so all I'm really losing should I dissolve is the creation fee.

My suggestion is this: If you have been war dec'd and think you stand a chance of suppressing the war decer rather than have to sit idly by whilst the dec'r can gather intel/prepare you are given some options. After all the decer should have prepared before initiating the dec.

If they are signed in and docked you can petition CONCORD to kick them out of the station. For a fee.

This solves two things.
Corps war decing with no intention to fight. If they apply to fight you then you can, as the peaceful party in the arrangement, force them to put their money where their dec is and fight.

Second, staying signed in whilst docked so that the opposing party will never really know when you are actually likely to undock.

Create a new corp, move your toons into it, and force them to dec that one, as well. Keep your old corp with some seldom used alts in it (make sure they have the minimum required skills, though). If they want to dec that one, make another, same deal. If they cancel any decs, go back to the corp that is not in a war. If nothing else, it costs them more to keep up the war. In many cases, it may take them days to figure out you have 'fled'. Finally, have your main corp in an alliance, the war dec cost is much higher and it only costs 2 mil/month in dues. There are many alliances out there that really only exist for the purpose of making war decs cost more. If you have one or two shell corps, get them in other alliances with the same goal. War dec'ing three alliances will cost a 150 mil/week minimum, plus additional costs if those alliances are at war with other entities.

I think you misunderstood what the above reply is saying.. We have absolute choice so long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of other players. Your suggestion directly conflicts with this. You do have freedom to do anything you want within the game mechanics.. Wars are sanctioned by Concord and will not be interefered by them. You stated earlier on in your post that you just disbanded your corp when you were decced.. So after a measly 24 hours you are able to carry on with your hauling, is this not freedom?

The corp I'm in at the moment is dealing with a similiar situation to the one you've described. We've been decced by some noobs who refuse to come and fight us.. So now I can't really do much, I can't run incursions and I can't fight the WTs because they just stay docked up. I don't complain about it though, it's just one of those things that happen. Stop whining about 24 hours of not being able to haul, usually it's for a week. Wardecs can suck but if someone wants to waste their money trolling you then they can go for it. You never know, if you actively tried to hunt them I'm sure you'd catch a noob mission runner or something ;)

Good luck.

Edit: Also, I love dec mechanics as they currently are. Without wardecs high sec would become completely safe and static.. Your suggestion would just give a huge advantage to large alliances as well. Chase a player to a station, have a largish blob outside then just get concord to force them out.. I can only imagine the huge bump in KMs and tears like yours if this were implemented. You need to think through suggestions more, learn to meditate or something - get in control of those rage tears buddy. I do agree that it can be a pain in the arse though, especially for industry and miners but that's life - c+¬st la vie.

As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war.

You absolutely did. You joined a Player Run Corp, and didn't bother to use the decshield service to rid yourself of the dec.

The what?

Or I could do that. Thanks for the link.

You're so very welcome. The Wardec rules relaxation pisses me off. I figure the more people use it and the more deccers complain about it, the faster they'll go back to calling it an exploit.

The whole war dec in High sec space is ridiculous and far too cheap and easy

In my opinion a war dec should ONLY be an option if that players corp steals from or aggresses you NOT just cause the other guy is minding their own buisness

Currently the war dec in high sec is to force people (that dont want to go to low sec or pvp) to pvp
Placed by space jerks that even though they could go to low sec or faction war to get pvp have to be scum and bother everyone else

Let people mission/mine in peace or change the war dec system to let the victim of a gank or theft in high sec to place a war dec INSTEAD of the cowardly placed war decs from people that just cant hack it in low sec

High sec war dec = pvp griefing by people that dont have the skills or brains nor the courage to live in low sec

Low sec --->->-> thata way

If ya all really looking for a fight go to low sec or faction war and be a hero

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. There are indications from dev posts that they're looking at remaking the wardec system in a way that will prevent dec scraping, and that they wanted to lift the exploit rules to see just what kind of abuses people could invent.

As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself?

As has been stated already, you have plenty of choices if wardec'd... Nobody said you can't fly your transport or freighter: you're choosing NOT to fly it. If someone is sitting outside the station waiting for you and your corpies, use a JC to jump elsewhere and continue your game.

What, you don't have any JCs? So, you're blaming game mechanics because you aren't taking advantage of game mechanics? Cry moar...

OMG STFU you whinning little Btchs.....this is suppose to be a cruel game, you are not safe anywhere....join a pve corp if you dont want to get war decced.


Fkn Tards, go back to WoW ya 12 yo nubs.


BTW...thanks for all the War Dec options :)

No they pay pennies..

If these guys have paid money to fight you, then why don't you just blob the heck out of them. If they refuse to engage, go fleet-run a mission or something. Stay together. Primary stuff. Sure, you'll probably get killed a lot. But you might also learn a thing or two about how to defend yourself. And, just maybe, you could have fun.

OP: Thank you for your tears.

I am sustained and may continue playing for the next month or until I get more tears.

-DT

As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself?

This is the trouble though, we're never on at the same time.

He has.. It's called the dec fee. he had to give up iskies for the right to shoot at you. Also, flying around hisec without getting shot is not a privilege. It's a lucky streak. There is no safe space. You could also surrender the war and the fight is over 24 hrs after that.

So.... instead of sitting and playing "woe is me" please do some darn research on game mechanics before gracing us with your next bout of verbal diarrhea.

~Ghost

What I'm hearing is that your corporation bit off much more than it could chew.

So how is his choice not interfering with me? Why can't I interfere with him a little?
And we haven't disbanded yet, having the corp makes things convenient, nice private chat channel, openly share out gear between us, you know, that sort of thing.

But as we have no POS there is nothing for a corp to gain from a war with us.
Meh, I wouldn't even mind not having the corp, providing I could create some sort of shared hanagr.

I simply do not understand.

You're in a player corp. With that comes organizational and tax advantages. It also comes with the ability to be wardecced.

Also, I'm ok with your idea if it doesn't work outside Hisec, and the aggressors can use it too.

Guess who'd gonna learn to logoff before going AFK faster. The Wardec people or the Wardec victims?

What I'm hearing is that your corporation bit off much more than it could chew.

That's pretty much my point, I'd know when he's online because he wouldn't stay signed in all the time.

I was more getting at the fact I hadn't done any biting.

IMO, wardecs are currently broken.

Non-consentual PvP is an important part of EvE, and hisec wardecs are a good idea (even if the current implementation is fail).

The idea to kick a player out of station isn't all that fail.... people can easily log off when in station to stay safe. It would definitely put a disadvantage onto the deccing corp, which is NOT a bad thing. However, a game mechanic that encourages people to log off is a bad idea in general.

CCP's newest theme is war, so I expect they will alter wardec mechanics significantly over the next year. Currently, with corp hopping, and the cheap price of wardecs, the mechanic is broken.

I would think putting out general guidelines on what works, and what fails in the current wardec scheme would be very helpful to CCP.

Working as intended:
Allowing an aggressor corp to wardec any Player corp they want.
The only "safety" from wardecs comes from NPC corps.
Mutual wardecs: RvB is an excellent example of how wardecs work!

Fails:
Corp hopping: The ease at which corps can evade wardecs by jumping to another corp.
Corp hopping: The ease at which aggressors can hop corps to weekend gank.
Price: The price of wardecs is laughably low. There is essentially no cost to wardecs.

Potential (not necessarily good) ideas:

Provide a disadvantage to the aggressing corp. Currently, cost is NOT a disadvantage.
-- Concord can be bought to boot people out of stations in which their corp doesn't hold an office? (Meh)
-- Players can NOT join an aggressing corp during one-sided wardecs? (+1)
-- Additional concord taxes on all rewards and market transactions? (meh)
-- War deccer's get standing penalties to factions based on the wardeccee's standings (i.e., dec a few +10 Amarr mission running corps, and your corp suddenly has -10 faction standings to Amarr, hence amarr police attack in amarr space) (+1, but hard to balance)

Regional/factional Wardecs? Each wardec is limited to a faction's space (Caldari, Amarr, etc)? (+/-)

Corp Life Risk vs Reward:
-- Increase the benefits of being in a player corp vs NPC, and don't allow players to so quickly evade wardecs.
-- Forcing players into unwanted wars needs to be balanced with limits on war duration.

the war dec system is fine. the thing that has to change is u the player. this is eve. this is not WOW. this in not some xbox single player adventure game. this is an MMO where ppl shoot other ppl. u the carebear are not goin to be safe. high sec is not meant to be safe. miners and noobs that want to be safe should play a different game where i cant find them and kill them. those that dec ppl simply because they want easy kills, suck at pvp. u can kill them easy if u think like a human being.

if u cant think then ur ******** and should play WOW since u have no need to think in that game wat so ever. those of u that complain cuz u got dec'ed are babies. grow the **** up, grab ur balls out of the safety deposit box u put them in and deal with it. dont want to fight? then dont undock. simple solution to a simple problem.
OP u just came up with the most ******** suggestion ever. any 1 with **** loads of isk can locate u and kick u from the station as many times as they want. that means if u are in ur fancy mish ship and u want to go take a ****, said person can kick u and kill u followed by pod.
if u dont see the issue with that, i want u to be my first dec once this new system goes though to see how well it works out for u.

******** ppl coming up with ******** solutions. wats next? a screen showing if theres a gate camp on a low sec gate?

I really like the standings idea. A lot of work to get there so a reward of being genuinely costly to dec (in that factions space) doesn't seem unfitting.

Wardecs aren't supposed to be costly. The Dec fee has always been a token amount, and it used to be the same token amount no matter how many outgoing decs were going on.

Why would the factions care about police (and Yulai convention) approved combat happening in their space, anyway?

Sorry?

since nothing in this game is more annoying than being decced by some "hot shot" alt PVP corp

So basically you can do one of three things, camp in station until he logs, log off yourself, or pointlessly mission in PVP fleets. Overall out of the week long dec maybe a newb or two get killed, maybe one vet gets bored (for deccer or deccee ) and gets blobbed and ends up a lol killmail, but all in all a major waste of time.

I would modify the OP initial proposal to this: The members of the wardeccing corporation (aggressor) are subject to be ejected from the station after a 5 minute timer upon request of the enity that was war decced (defender) , the agressor may log out instead, but this imposes a one hour secondary timer before the request expires. An option will be added to your client screen: If under a reject request: logoff (Y) or (N). This will prevent the death by going AFK issue. THe defender will be charged a service fee.

I also like the idea that standings in that area of space have an impact, since high standings "should" represent you are a good citizen of the faction and would tend to be favored over some interloper.

I really just hate hi sec wars because they are a) Lame, b) boring, and c) lower my income while being lame and boring.

And yes more than half the Lame and Boring wars I have been I would have been considered an aggressor (my corp mates like deccing things and making me come shoot abandoned hi-sec POSs) and if I am sitting in a station AFK just to scare some newbs I deserve to lose my ship and get podded.

sorry if this is a duplicate, silly forums

Wardecs aren't supposed to be costly. The Dec fee has always been a token amount, and it used to be the same token amount no matter how many outgoing decs were going on.

Why would the factions care about police (and Yulai convention) approved combat happening in their space, anyway?

If the mechanics of the area of the game you choose play in are not to your taste (and had not significantly changed in 8 years[not counting the new DecShield shit]), leave the area of the game. If none of the gameplay areas in the game you choose to play are to your liking, leave the game.

So you're telling us to buck up because that's how the game is made? But also state that something you find annoying is an exception.

It's a game, and changes frequently, change is good, and defending how things are just because that's how it has been made doesn't mean they are fun, fair or "good."

As I've been playing I've spotted a few things that are not how the game currently acts. Should they all be discarded simply because "It's not how the game is now?"

Undo window resizes/moves.
Fire on a POS harbouring my enemies in high sec.
Add a skill to the queue when it's prereq's are not met because the prereqs are still training.
Blanket "configure container" settings so I don't have to set them all individually to unlocked.
Individually reset UI windows.
Single key to launch "first 5 available drones."
Right click someone's online notification icon to bring up context menu for that player.

. If we wardec a corp we never talked to, this would actually also be a sort of harassment when their player can not undock for 24 hrs or has to play the game while paying attention.

Why not make it so against a fee you can as defending corp make it so after the Wardecking player/s undock they cant dock at that station again for a set amount of time, to remove the station games and so that the wardecking corp also will be put at risk.

The whole war dec in High sec space is ridiculous and far too cheap and easy

In my opinion a war dec should ONLY be an option if that players corp steals from or aggresses you NOT just cause the other guy is minding their own buisness

Currently the war dec in high sec is to force people (that dont want to go to low sec or pvp) to pvp
Placed by space jerks that even though they could go to low sec or faction war to get pvp have to be scum and bother everyone else

Let people mission/mine in peace or change the war dec system to let the victim of a gank or theft in high sec to place a war dec INSTEAD of the cowardly placed war decs from people that just cant hack it in low sec

High sec war dec = pvp griefing by people that dont have the skills or brains nor the courage to live in low sec

Low sec --->->-> thata way

If ya all really looking for a fight go to low sec or faction war and be a hero

IMO, wardecs are currently broken.

Non-consentual PvP is an important part of EvE, and hisec wardecs are a good idea (even if the current implementation is fail).

The idea to kick a player out of station isn't all that fail.... people can easily log off when in station to stay safe. It would definitely put a disadvantage onto the deccing corp, which is NOT a bad thing. However, a game mechanic that encourages people to log off is a bad idea in general.

CCP's newest theme is war, so I expect they will alter wardec mechanics significantly over the next year. Currently, with corp hopping, and the cheap price of wardecs, the mechanic is broken.

I would think putting out general guidelines on what works, and what fails in the current wardec scheme would be very helpful to CCP.

Working as intended:
Allowing an aggressor corp to wardec any Player corp they want.
The only "safety" from wardecs comes from NPC corps.
Mutual wardecs: RvB is an excellent example of how wardecs work!

Fails:
Corp hopping: The ease at which corps can evade wardecs by jumping to another corp.
Corp hopping: The ease at which aggressors can hop corps to weekend gank.
Price: The price of wardecs is laughably low. There is essentially no cost to wardecs.

Potential (not necessarily good) ideas:

Provide a disadvantage to the aggressing corp. Currently, cost is NOT a disadvantage.
-- Concord can be bought to boot people out of stations in which their corp doesn't hold an office? (Meh)
-- Players can NOT join an aggressing corp during one-sided wardecs? (+1)
-- Additional concord taxes on all rewards and market transactions? (meh)
-- War deccer's get standing penalties to factions based on the wardeccee's standings (i.e., dec a few +10 Amarr mission running corps, and your corp suddenly has -10 faction standings to Amarr, hence amarr police attack in amarr space) (+1, but hard to balance)

Regional/factional Wardecs? Each wardec is limited to a faction's space (Caldari, Amarr, etc)? (+/-)

Corp Life Risk vs Reward:
-- Increase the benefits of being in a player corp vs NPC, and don't allow players to so quickly evade wardecs.
-- Forcing players into unwanted wars needs to be balanced with limits on war duration.