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nooblete
Femtometre Mining
0
   |
Posted - 2011.12.16 06:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a suggestion for war decs. Few and far between they are for me but once more my corp has been war dec'd.
First time round I didn't stand a chance so just disbanded and if we get our asses kicked I'll probably do the same, the corp doesn't really have any real estate, so all I'm really losing should I dissolve is the creation fee.
My suggestion is this: If you have been war dec'd and think you stand a chance of suppressing the war decer rather than have to sit idly by whilst the dec'r can gather intel/prepare you are given some options. After all the decer should have prepared before initiating the dec.
If they are signed in and docked you can petition CONCORD to kick them out of the station. For a fee.
This solves two things.
Corps war decing with no intention to fight. If they apply to fight you then you can, as the peaceful party in the arrangement, force them to put their money where their dec is and fight.
Second, staying signed in whilst docked so that the opposing party will never really know when you are actually likely to undock.
|
The Bear08
The Scope
Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 07:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is a ridiculous suggestion. What happens if somebody goes AFK for a few minutes?
This sort of idea goes against all EvE principles in my opinion - every player has an absolute choice in what they do: when they undock, where they go, who they shoot, what they engage. By adding a feature by which a player can be forced into space, it removes a dimension of the gameplay because things become predictable. |
nooblete
Femtometre Mining
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 08:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself? |
Citizen Smif
Traumark Shadow Elite
H Y E N A
30
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 09:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself?
I think you misunderstood what the above reply is saying.. We have absolute choice so long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of other players. Your suggestion directly conflicts with this. You do have freedom to do anything you want within the game mechanics.. Wars are sanctioned by Concord and will not be interefered by them. You stated earlier on in your post that you just disbanded your corp when you were decced.. So after a measly 24 hours you are able to carry on with your hauling, is this not freedom?
The corp I'm in at the moment is dealing with a similiar situation to the one you've described. We've been decced by some noobs who refuse to come and fight us.. So now I can't really do much, I can't run incursions and I can't fight the WTs because they just stay docked up. I don't complain about it though, it's just one of those things that happen. Stop whining about 24 hours of not being able to haul, usually it's for a week. Wardecs can suck but if someone wants to waste their money trolling you then they can go for it. You never know, if you actively tried to hunt them I'm sure you'd catch a noob mission runner or something ;)
Good luck.
Edit: Also, I love dec mechanics as they currently are. Without wardecs high sec would become completely safe and static.. Your suggestion would just give a huge advantage to large alliances as well. Chase a player to a station, have a largish blob outside then just get concord to force them out.. I can only imagine the huge bump in KMs and tears like yours if this were implemented. You need to think through suggestions more, learn to meditate or something - get in control of those rage tears buddy. I do agree that it can be a pain in the arse though, especially for industry and miners but that's life - c+Žst la vie. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
I dont like the Ops suggestion, but I dont like the way it works to.
We have been at war for problally 25 of the 52 weeks this year, and as an alliance its bloody anoing that a 2 man corp can stall and just sit docked for 5 weeks in a row, only to undock and chase down lowners in week 3 of the war for 1 hour.
- A corporation or alliance less than 30 members shouldnt be able to declare a war
- The weekly fee should dubble every week
Im not complaining, you'll have a clean up every time within your corporation/alliance, but sadly iv seen SO many people stop playing because of wars.
Why.. they only have maby 5-10 hours a week they can play. They wana be part of something and fly with their friends. Because of the limit time they have, they cant afford losing their ships, and flying a griffin or Rifter 5 weeks in a row aint really that fun.
The way war decs works are broken, its not used as intended as i see it. If you declare war you fight for something, a disagreement, area, power, ISK. Ill bet 99% of the war decs seen in EVE are greifers who just wana smack in local and extend their killboard. Who wana brag about how they managed to solo kill a Hulk because he was so stupid to undock due war.
There have been SO many suggestion and complaint on how the system works, some good some bad, at the end of the day more or less everyone iv spoken with on both sides of the table wants the system changed.
Nisroc Angels
Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
|
Deltor Griffith
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
People already pay money... to wardec. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Deltor Griffith wrote:People already pay money... to wardec.
No they pay pennies..
Nisroc Angels
Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
|
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 13:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
The last pitiful little war we had was similar to mentioned above....they were not even online most of the time, much less AFK. Anyway, we ran missions and mined (a lot of mission field mining) and generally went about our business. Yes, freighters pretty much stayed docked up, but since we had the name and location of each pilot, it was not that dangerous, really.
If they had gone AFK in station in our 'home' system, we would have done the same thing. We are fortunate enough to have enough people online during peak time that we were relatively safe. Several senior members run missions in essentially PvP fits just in case someone comes out to play (and doesn't dock up immediately).
I do think hi sec war needs some kind of re-work, but not interested enough to work out the details. The whack-a-mole station docking is just lame from all perspectives. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
411
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 15:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kicking people out of station: Umm....no. As much as I'd like to drag my prey out, the idea that you can force someone to undock when they just needed to step away for a minute is absurd. This would even be a bad troll.
Any changes to the wardec system that make it harder to declare/sustain a war need to come alongside changes that make it easier to actually engage in the war. As it stands right now, we're able to get fights from one out of ten wardecs, and we have to put a lot of effort into getting some of those. |
nooblete
Femtometre Mining
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 15:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself? I think you misunderstood what the above reply is saying.. We have absolute choice so long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of other players. Your suggestion directly conflicts with this. You do have freedom to do anything you want within the game mechanics.. Wars are sanctioned by Concord and will not be interefered by them. You stated earlier on in your post that you just disbanded your corp when you were decced.. So after a measly 24 hours you are able to carry on with your hauling, is this not freedom?
So how is his choice not interfering with me? Why can't I interfere with him a little?
And we haven't disbanded yet, having the corp makes things convenient, nice private chat channel, openly share out gear between us, you know, that sort of thing.
But as we have no POS there is nothing for a corp to gain from a war with us.
Meh, I wouldn't even mind not having the corp, providing I could create some sort of shared hanagr. |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself?
You did consent to all of it when you accepted the risks that come along with being in a corp. Obviously it comes with perks that you may consider more beneficial than the risks... if you didn't know about these risks before hand well 
I think you're just looking at it as though being in a corporation should only have benefits and thats not how the game is designed... its not like other games with guilds fortunatly/unfortunatly (depending on how you look at it).
|
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Create a new corp, move your toons into it, and force them to dec that one, as well. Keep your old corp with some seldom used alts in it (make sure they have the minimum required skills, though). If they want to dec that one, make another, same deal. If they cancel any decs, go back to the corp that is not in a war. If nothing else, it costs them more to keep up the war. In many cases, it may take them days to figure out you have 'fled'. Finally, have your main corp in an alliance, the war dec cost is much higher and it only costs 2 mil/month in dues. There are many alliances out there that really only exist for the purpose of making war decs cost more. If you have one or two shell corps, get them in other alliances with the same goal. War dec'ing three alliances will cost a 150 mil/week minimum, plus additional costs if those alliances are at war with other entities. |
Salicaz
Wolfsbrigade
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 17:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Suddenly, wild carebears appear. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Pirate Nation.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 17:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Your corp descritpion "High sec mining and freight for the new guys."
Seriously, new players, means low skill pilots easy meat, often getting into ships they can barely fly and not knowing anything about combat in Eve. Miners and freight means expensive ship and some full of goodies and even better they don't shoot back.
Remove "new guys" at least, so they have to check your players skill levels by scouting them out first....
I have said in reply to another person moaning about war decs is that one should never set up a corp dedicated to new guys, because your just setting yourself up for trouble, make sure you have a core group of experienced guys who can fly a properly fitted T2 BC and then think about running your own corp, until that time you're just an easy target.
And your idea is terrible...
|
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
F0rgotten Hope
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 17:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
nooblete wrote:I have a suggestion for war decs. Few and far between they are for me but once more my corp has been war dec'd.
First time round I didn't stand a chance so just disbanded and if we get our asses kicked I'll probably do the same, the corp doesn't really have any real estate, so all I'm really losing should I dissolve is the creation fee.
My suggestion is this: If you have been war dec'd and think you stand a chance of suppressing the war decer rather than have to sit idly by whilst the dec'r can gather intel/prepare you are given some options. After all the decer should have prepared before initiating the dec.
If they are signed in and docked you can petition CONCORD to kick them out of the station. For a fee.
This solves two things.
Corps war decing with no intention to fight. If they apply to fight you then you can, as the peaceful party in the arrangement, force them to put their money where their dec is and fight.
Second, staying signed in whilst docked so that the opposing party will never really know when you are actually likely to undock.
you must be new here 
"Here's how to make mining enjoyable: a bullet, a gun, your mouth"
-Haxtis
|
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
208
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 19:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
oh no i have to play the game now |
Billee Baub
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 00:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
As someone who is in a PVP corp that does Hi Sec War Decs I understand what you are saying. I agree with you that the war decs can be frustrating at times, especially if you are on the receiving end. However since we regularly drop decs on people and in return get dec'd here is some advice.
First off as previously stated the people dec'n you usually are looking for easy kills, so if you deprive them of the opportunity they will lose interest fairly quickly. You can also gain intel on the people after you, such as looking through their member list and keeping tabs on them. Follow their killboards and see where they have been getting kills recently. Have some of your members take turns being scouts in surrounding systems in frigs, they can let you know if WT's are incoming and you can warp off. Not full proof but nothing is. Alts are great for this and as long as you pay attention you should be able to quickly warp to a safe and watch as the attackers get bored with not catching you and go somewhere else. Worst case you dock up go afk and after a few days of no kills they leave. Sucks but thats part of the experience of eve.
Another option also stated is make sure your corp has some people with good SP's to pvp, have fun with it and set up a defensive group, we have dec'd several Missioning/minning corps that have reshipped during decs and run protection for their other members and successfully fended off our attacks. Not only was it fun for both sides but new alliances were even made because of new found respect. Just because you are not in a pvp corp does not mean you cant look intimidating and you will probably find some of the people dropping decs don't know what to do when you land on grid with equal numbers.
You can also look into hiring a Merc corp such as ourselves to help out. Trust me when I say alot of people dropping dec's are counting on easy ganks and when you spend the isk to pay for a pvp corp to get a week of free decks on another corp it can cause your dec to be dropped FAST. Corps like mine will welcome someone paying us the fee to help them out. Its no isk from our wallet and more targets to choose from so were game.
I can only speak for my corp but in our case we tend to look for large corps with active members to deck since we are looking for fights, not 10 on 1 hulk kills (although we will take em if presented). Newbie corps aren't on our list but thats just us. We deck PVP corps regularly and look for those decs in return. Not everyone is looking to just ruin a high sec pilots week.
Changing the game mechanics is not the option, instead encouraging players to reach out and interact with others to find solutions is in my opinion the best way to go. Mail me in game if you need some help or even just want some more advice.
Hope this helps. |
nooblete
Femtometre Mining
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 05:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Salcon Cliff wrote:Create a new corp, move your toons into it, and force them to dec that one, as well. Keep your old corp with some seldom used alts in it (make sure they have the minimum required skills, though). If they want to dec that one, make another, same deal. If they cancel any decs, go back to the corp that is not in a war. If nothing else, it costs them more to keep up the war. In many cases, it may take them days to figure out you have 'fled'. Finally, have your main corp in an alliance, the war dec cost is much higher and it only costs 2 mil/month in dues. There are many alliances out there that really only exist for the purpose of making war decs cost more. If you have one or two shell corps, get them in other alliances with the same goal. War dec'ing three alliances will cost a 150 mil/week minimum, plus additional costs if those alliances are at war with other entities.
I was unaware alliances were more expensive to Dec. I shall pursue this.
Just as an update, I haven't seen them undock. |
Celtic Venom
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. I forefeit my privilege of flying round high sec in a freighter on my own and unguarded because of a choice another player has made. Shouldn't that other player be put to some disadvantage due to a decision I make? Especially after making a change to the game for myself without any consent from myself? I think you misunderstood what the above reply is saying.. We have absolute choice so long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of other players. Your suggestion directly conflicts with this. You do have freedom to do anything you want within the game mechanics.. Wars are sanctioned by Concord and will not be interefered by them. You stated earlier on in your post that you just disbanded your corp when you were decced.. So after a measly 24 hours you are able to carry on with your hauling, is this not freedom? The corp I'm in at the moment is dealing with a similiar situation to the one you've described. We've been decced by some noobs who refuse to come and fight us.. So now I can't really do much, I can't run incursions and I can't fight the WTs because they just stay docked up. I don't complain about it though, it's just one of those things that happen. Stop whining about 24 hours of not being able to haul, usually it's for a week. Wardecs can suck but if someone wants to waste their money trolling you then they can go for it. You never know, if you actively tried to hunt them I'm sure you'd catch a noob mission runner or something ;) Good luck. Edit: Also, I love dec mechanics as they currently are. Without wardecs high sec would become completely safe and static.. Your suggestion would just give a huge advantage to large alliances as well. Chase a player to a station, have a largish blob outside then just get concord to force them out.. I can only imagine the huge bump in KMs and tears like yours if this were implemented. You need to think through suggestions more, learn to meditate or something - get in control of those rage tears buddy. I do agree that it can be a pain in the arse though, especially for industry and miners but that's life - c+Žst la vie.
The whole war dec in High sec space is ridiculous and far too cheap and easy
In my opinion a war dec should ONLY be an option if that players corp steals from or aggresses you NOT just cause the other guy is minding their own buisness
Currently the war dec in high sec is to force people (that dont want to go to low sec or pvp) to pvp
Placed by space jerks that even though they could go to low sec or faction war to get pvp have to be scum and bother everyone else
Let people mission/mine in peace or change the war dec system to let the victim of a gank or theft in high sec to place a war dec INSTEAD of the cowardly placed war decs from people that just cant hack it in low sec
High sec war dec = pvp griefing by people that dont have the skills or brains nor the courage to live in low sec
Low sec --->->-> thata way
If ya all really looking for a fight go to low sec or faction war and be a hero
|
Sokniw
Dead Pod Syndrome
MORE.DPS
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
wars made easier = faction warfare.....
people pay money to wardec, i like the idea of having a escalading war price, longer the war more it cost each week. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
153
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 00:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war.
You absolutely did. You joined a Player Run Corp, and didn't bother to use the decshield service to rid yourself of the dec.
|
nooblete
Femtometre Mining
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 09:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. You absolutely did. You joined a Player Run Corp, and didn't bother to use the decshield service to rid yourself of the dec.
The what? |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
154
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 10:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
nooblete wrote:RubyPorto wrote:nooblete wrote:As you so adamantly state we have absolute choice in what we do. That is incorrect. At no point did I agree to the declaration of war. You absolutely did. You joined a Player Run Corp, and didn't bother to use the decshield service to rid yourself of the dec. The what?
Google. |
nooblete
Femtometre Mining
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 12:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Or I could do that. Thanks for the link. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
155
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 19:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
nooblete wrote:Or I could do that. Thanks for the link.
You're so very welcome. The Wardec rules relaxation pisses me off. I figure the more people use it and the more deccers complain about it, the faster they'll go back to calling it an exploit. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
416
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 15:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:You're so very welcome. The Wardec rules relaxation pisses me off. I figure the more people use it and the more deccers complain about it, the faster they'll go back to calling it an exploit.
I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. There are indications from dev posts that they're looking at remaking the wardec system in a way that will prevent dec scraping, and that they wanted to lift the exploit rules to see just what kind of abuses people could invent. |
Jack Traynor
One More Corp
19
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 16:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
As has been stated already, you have plenty of choices if wardec'd... Nobody said you can't fly your transport or freighter: you're choosing NOT to fly it. If someone is sitting outside the station waiting for you and your corpies, use a JC to jump elsewhere and continue your game.
What, you don't have any JCs? So, you're blaming game mechanics because you aren't taking advantage of game mechanics? Cry moar... |
BringerMC
The Ghost Division
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 17:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Celtic Venom wrote:
The whole war dec in High sec space is ridiculous and far too cheap and easy
In my opinion a war dec should ONLY be an option if that players corp steals from or aggresses you NOT just cause the other guy is minding their own buisness
Currently the war dec in high sec is to force people (that dont want to go to low sec or pvp) to pvp
Placed by space jerks that even though they could go to low sec or faction war to get pvp have to be scum and bother everyone else
Let people mission/mine in peace or change the war dec system to let the victim of a gank or theft in high sec to place a war dec INSTEAD of the cowardly placed war decs from people that just cant hack it in low sec
High sec war dec = pvp griefing by people that dont have the skills or brains nor the courage to live in low sec
Low sec --->->-> thata way
If ya all really looking for a fight go to low sec or faction war and be a hero
That is not really true. Faction Warfare and roaming a certain swatch of lowsec gets boring. HISEC wardecs are a way to keep the spice and actually get targets in large amounts that might be willing to fight.
Also not sure who said but something about most HISEC wardeccers will run from even numbers; but most the time we fight outnumbered and prefer it that way. More of a challenge and if you know what you are doing actually gives you an advantage. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
165
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 18:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:RubyPorto wrote:You're so very welcome. The Wardec rules relaxation pisses me off. I figure the more people use it and the more deccers complain about it, the faster they'll go back to calling it an exploit. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. There are indications from dev posts that they're looking at remaking the wardec system in a way that will prevent dec scraping, and that they wanted to lift the exploit rules to see just what kind of abuses people could invent.
I'm fine with fixing the mechanics instead of calling it an exploit. Whatever so long as a Hisec POS is killable without a suicide gank. As for what abuses people come up with, they'd just have to check their logs from before declaring alliance hopping an exploit. |
Ender Sai
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 19:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Wardecs are currently really silly.
They need to be scrapped and re-designed from the bottom/top up/down. Left right and center.
The only thing that really needs to be said is "CCP fix". Then we can flame the devs if their ideas are pewp, or we can worship them with likes if their ideas are rad. This is actually good because then CCP can follow the beer -> software design -> Results process. Which I heartily recommend.
It's also good for the icelandic booze economy. Do it. |
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