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Sensor Dampeners - Do they really work?

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SlaveNumber 75389	Posted - 2007.02.06 02:35:00 - [1] I have never managed to use them and notice an effect? How do they work? Do you need to be the one getting a lock on the target first in order for them to work?
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.02.06 02:43:00 - [2] They reduce your target's locking speed and range. If they already have you locked, there's no effect on their locking speed, of course. If you are still within their reduced range, then there is also no effect on the target lock they have on you. However, if you or any other target they have locked goes outside their now-reduced range, they lose lock and will have a longer time to regain the lock under the dampener. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.02.06 02:46:00 - [3] Originally by: SlaveNumber 75389 I have never managed to use them and notice an effect? How do they work? Do you need to be the one getting a lock on the target first in order for them to work? They don't work on npc's. N.F.F. Recruitment
Octaviun Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.06 03:00:00 - [4] One word Overpowered Bye _________________________________________________
xHomicide	Posted - 2007.02.06 03:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Octaviun One word Overpowered Bye True story.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.02.06 03:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Ryysa They don't work on npc's. Are you sure? I've been using them while ratting in my Manticore - never really checked if they work properly but somehow I manage to survive relatively unscathed. Am I just kidding myself
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.02.06 03:20:00 - [7] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 06/02/2007 03:22:52 Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 06/02/2007 03:17:47 They can be quite effective in a group if you activate them on the proper targets. Use them on the high damage no tank ships people stick a bit away from the battle. They are also good for small ships to use against larger ships. If a small pack of frigates or cruisers (celestus comes to mind) damps down a battleship so they lose lock it will take them quite some time (2 minute or more even) to lock the smaller ships giving you a fair ammount of time without being webbed or nosed. You can alternate who is inside and outside the targets locking range to prevent any locks. Some people might say that is overpowered but 5 vs 1 should realy favor the grp of 5 now should it not. Dampers/tracking disruptors are my favored forms of EW, disruptors for gunships and dampers for missile boats. Dampers are also GREAT when used in conjunction with a caldari ecm boat, the increased lock time can give the ECM boat MANY MANY retry attempts. You are right tho, they have no effect on anything that is already very close and already in the process of locking.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.06 04:45:00 - [8] Edited by: Aramendel on 06/02/2007 04:42:42 Originally by: Christopher Dalran You are right tho, they have no effect on anything that is already very close and already in the process of locking. Not exactly. If something has partially locked you when you dampen it it's remaining locking time gets increased. For example, if you need 10 secs to lock something and you get dampened after 5 seconds so you need 10 times to lock something you'll need 50 instead 5 seconds to complete the lock.
Samirol OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.06 04:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Octaviun One word Overpowered Bye 2 words, sensor booster I buy insane sigs, mail me ingame.
Runner647	Posted - 2007.02.06 04:59:00 - [10] If it makes me work for my kill ... Nerf it... The motto of PvP'er Why don't we all go back to fighting only in Tech 1 Frigates.... Why bother with any bigger... Sooner or later you all will nerf everything to that level anyway

Benglada Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.06 05:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Octaviun One word Overpowered Bye 2 words, sensor booster So i can increase my lock range from 4km to 6km? lol. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Yukiko Kanezaki Tsunami Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.06 07:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Octaviun One word Overpowered Bye 2 words, sensor booster So i can increase my lock range from 4km to 6km? lol. IIRC, 1 sensor booster cancles two sensor damps, or something like that.
Zirth Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.02.06 07:30:00 - [13] Naw, a sensor booster increases range and locking by 50%, a dampener by like -48%? Thing is though. You'd be fecking stupid to fit a sensor booster most of the time. Most of the time it's better to fit another module than a sensor booster, cause there's not that many people rolling with sensor dampeners. But when you do run into a dampener, you are often fecked if the opponent is decent. They do work. 3x damp and 1x disrupt can be insane. Even battleships with 90km locking range will have like 19km after 3x dampeners. You can never have him lock you, or go in close, do your thing, get locked, take minor hits cause of small ship against disrupted large guns with a good transversal, and then go to 20km, drop his lock, and have 30-60 seconds before he can fire on ya again. It is kind of overpowered in a way. Because the counter to it is not in our every-day setups, cause in everyday gameplay, sensor boosters suck ass.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.06 08:24:00 - [14] Sensor damps are very tricky thing to use and best work with longer range setups, like ravens. -------- .....
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.06 08:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Yukiko Kanezaki IIRC, 1 sensor booster cancles two sensor damps, or something like that. Or perhaps you messed it up and it's the other way... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Elenor Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.06 08:37:00 - [16] having a few damps on u will quikly enlighten u, cause being dampedx3 will bring u to the point where u wont take part in any action in the near future.
Alan Maher Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.06 08:46:00 - [17] Damps are very very nice indeed. I use them on both my Arazu and my Dominix, They can cripple someone so much that by the time they join battle they've already lost.
SlaveNumber 75389	Posted - 2007.02.06 08:52:00 - [18] Edited by: SlaveNumber 75389 on 06/02/2007 08:50:07 Edited by: SlaveNumber 75389 on 06/02/2007 08:49:53 I kind of likethe dampener and ECM idea. Jam and also have opponent have a real long locking time. But damp and disruptor sounds like something to try too though. Only thing though, is how do you use it in small gangs/solo when you need to stay within 20km to scram him? You're pretty close to him then.
Ra'ita	Posted - 2007.02.06 09:28:00 - [19] Damps and boosters are stacking nerfed on the same tree. Boosters first, damps second. Do the math.
Melicien Tetro Gallente FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.06 09:40:00 - [20] Sensor boosters work incredibly well on any ship with a damp bonus. 500m lock on ranges, with 30 seconds to lock on to a cruiser, and such. Also very effective in conjunction with ECM drones, which in my opinion, should be fit on no ship without a damp. I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be damned if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story.

dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.06 09:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Ra'ita Damps and boosters are stacking nerfed on the same tree. Boosters first, damps second. Do the math. If you're gonna state a fact in an arrogant manner... ... it's a good idea if your fact is correct, D'OH! Positive and negative modifiers are not penalized together. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Jon Hawkes Dark Angel Security	Posted - 2007.02.06 10:10:00 - [22] With decent EW skills (Signal Suppression 4) and a pair of T2 Dampeners, a Celestis or a Maulus can reduce a target's lock range by around 90%, and put their lock times into nearly triple figures. Very nasty indeed.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.02.06 10:56:00 - [23] If you want to be really evil, use ecm drones with your gang support maulus/celestis
Ra'ita	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:15:00 - [24] Edited by: Ra''ita on 06/02/2007 11:12:02 Originally by: dalman Originally by: Ra'ita Damps and boosters are stacking nerfed on the same tree. Boosters first, damps second. Do the math. If you're gonna state a fact in an arrogant manner... ... it's a good idea if your fact is correct, D'OH! Arrogant? Guilty as charged. It's late; sorry.... Originally by: dalman Positive and negative modifiers are not penalized together. However, as I understand it, I'm still right on this. Check this thread: Damp Stacking Thread Last I checked, this was still in total effect. Boosters are stacked against dampeners, with the boosters coming first. I know full well this isn't how most things work in eve, but this is my understanding of dampeners. I'd be pleased to learn I'm wrong. However, I do think this setup is rather balanced. Damp ships have an advantage most of the time, but if another players fits boosters, or you happen to come across a player that favors them, your damp ship is dead. Otherwise, damps are great. Odd balance, but I see it.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:25:00 - [25] That thread is A YEAR out of date - the patch after that fixed that stacking mistake and positive and negative modifiers ARE stacked separately. I, along with many others, tested this before and after that patch, and have used damps and damp-specialist ships extensively since. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:25:00 - [26] Posted - 2005.12.14
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Octaviun One word Overpowered Bye 2 words, sensor booster So i can increase my lock range from 4km to 6km? lol. Then you might want to change out of the Velator and buy an incursus. At best with good skills and a bonused ship you get around 50-60% reduction in lock range per damp, with a non bonused ship 30-50% So yea, fiting a single SB negates the advantage the damps give. Since Gallantean doctrine is close range... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
baaaaal	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:34:00 - [28] Edited by: baaaaal on 06/02/2007 11:34:48 i can confirm they dont work on npc's my 2nd char flys a lachesis and 3 remote damps on an npc bs 80k km away doesnt stop them from locking or firing on me. there uber for pvp though in the ships with a sensor damp bonus they can take an assault frigs locking range to 5km and a bs to about 10-15 if they dont have a sensor booster Quote: Naw, a sensor booster increases range and locking by 50%, a dampener by like -48%? around -64% in a ship with a bonus to dampening
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.06 12:25:00 - [29] Originally by: SlaveNumber 75389 I have never managed to use them and notice an effect? How do they work? Do you need to be the one getting a lock on the target first in order for them to work? Generally, when fighting outside 30km Sensor Dampeners are better, when fighting inside 30km ECM is better - reasoning being that lowering the locking range of your target below your distance to the target is a 100% sure way to break a lock, while ECM is chance based. If you sit at 100km to 150km with a long-range setup (Raven for example) and put 4 sensor dampeners on your target, it wont be able to lock you at all, even if it has Sensor Boosters equipped. If your target doesnt use sensor boosters (any short-range setup generally) 2 Sensor Dampeners are enough to take it out of the fight. On top of that your tacklers will thank you since the target will need well over 4 minutes to lock onto them. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.06 12:46:00 - [30] Edited by: Aramendel on 06/02/2007 12:49:48 Originally by: Laboratus At best with good skills and a bonused ship you get around 50-60% reduction in lock range per damp, with a non bonused ship 30-50% So yea, fiting a single SB negates the advantage the damps give. Since Gallantean doctrine is close range... Er... no. Without shipboni and lvl 4 in the spec you get -58.4% with t2 damps. You get +60% with a SB2. 100% * 0.416 * 1.6 -> 66% With 2 Sb2s it's 101% Originally by: Eskona Runningstar If you sit at 100km to 150km with a long-range setup (Raven for example) and put 4 sensor dampeners on your target, it wont be able to lock you at all, even if it has Sensor Boosters equipped. Tecnically, yes, but post 45k you are (with max skills) in the falloff of damperners. Where they only have a chance to work. It's similar to turret falloff mechanics, optimal + falloff = 50% chance to "hit", optimal + 2* falloff = 0% chance to "hit". So at 100k you have about a 70% chance for a damperner to work and at 150k about 30% chance. You only need one to work at these distances, though. Basically, past 45k damperners behave like ECM (for the damperner ship only, though, it won't help any closerange support), exept that not the sensorstrength but the distance determine it's sucess chance.

dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.06 13:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Benglada So i can increase my lock range from 4km to 6km? lol. Then you might want to change out of the Velator and buy an incursus. You do not understand things at all. On a ship with bonus to these things, you can get -70.75% lock range from one dampener. Let's assume you fit 4 sensor boosters on your maxed out raven. Congrats, your lockrange is now 358km! Then someone puts 4 dampeners on you. Your lock range is now 19km (well within warp scrambling range). These modules can be extremely effective. Ra'ita, read post number 39 in that thread you linked After we brought it up (me raising concern, naughty boy doing math, shin ra doing testing), it was fixed by seperating positive and negative modules. It sure took the devs quite some time to fix, but it was still fixed long ago. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.06 14:39:00 - [32] Edited by: Laboratus on 06/02/2007 14:36:43 Originally by: dalman You do not understand things at all. On a ship with bonus to these things, you can get -70.75% lock range from one dampener. Let's assume you fit 4 sensor boosters on your maxed out raven. Congrats, your lockrange is now 358km! Then someone puts 4 dampeners on you. Your lock range is now 19km (well within warp scrambling range). These modules can be extremely effective. Ra'ita, read post number 39 in that thread you linked After we brought it up (me raising concern, naughty boy doing math, shin ra doing testing), it was fixed by seperating positive and negative modules. It sure took the devs quite some time to fix, but it was still fixed long ago. You don't seem to see how they are used. Yes, they are effective, but not nearly what you might call OP. 1st. You only have bonus ships in frigate and cruiser sizes, meaning they are very, very fragile. 2nd. You need to put 3 or 4 damps on someone to get them locked down enough that you are pulling your weight in any combat group. Hence the boni ships can only acchieve half effectiveness (5 mids on a celestis) by putting 2 damps on 2 ships, with limited range since targeting range is an issue, while their ECM counterpart, the blackbird, can acchieve good success to longer ranges with their 6 mids (2 SB 4 ECM mods). 3rd. You need sensor linking lvl 4 for T2 damps. And only after that can you train the effeciency bonus skills for damps. Electronic warfare skill (for ECM ) is still usefull to some degree. All in all, RSDs are very "special" and "challenging" as they need specialised ships to use, are very limited in their effectiveness and require very specialised circumstanses to be effective... Edit: Oh, and calculating these with max EW skills is kinda. Pointless, since very few if any have em... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.06 14:56:00 - [33] And this has to do what with the issue? 1) 1 sensor booster does not counter 1 sensor damperner. Period. Even if you use them on ships without the spec. 2) ECM is more universal than damperners, yes. But damperners are more powerful in the 20-50k area. Simply because they work every time. They are not chancebased. And 3 SDs on a non-specced ship or 2 SDs on a specced is plenty to get any non-recon ship with 1 SB2 below WD2 targeting range. 3) SP cost? You gotta be kidding me. sensnor linking and signal dispersion 4 are 360k SP - 1 week training is nothing major. And it's the same for every other EW system.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:06:00 - [34] On a celestus I think my t2 damps do -72 some odd %. Impressive but far from invincible but they are down right brutal in groups. I like to take new members that can only fly cruisers and frigates and put them into the ships with a damper bonus. I then stick them all into the same squad and assign them to dampen down different key ships that are fighting in the ranges of 30km - 70km. Cruisers and frigates cant do terrible impressive damage to battleships but they can ruin their targeting/tracking and web/scramble while your fleet gets into range. The trick is to warp them in later and cut everyone out of the fight that is not right in the thick of battle with all your big blaster ships (normally on average that knocks out atleast half or more of what the enemy has). The cruisers and frigates are prety fragile so you have to bring them around after everyone already has their targets chosen and is more apt to overlook their presence. Dampers are great, but because the bonuses are only on the small ships someone with an eye out for them can remove the problem quickly.
Malcanis Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:14:00 - [35] Originally by: baaaaal Edited by: baaaaal on 06/02/2007 11:34:48 i can confirm they dont work on npc's my 2nd char flys a lachesis and 3 remote damps on an npc bs 80k km away doesnt stop them from locking or firing on me. there uber for pvp though in the ships with a sensor damp bonus they can take an assault frigs locking range to 5km and a bs to about 10-15 if they dont have a sensor booster Quote: Naw, a sensor booster increases range and locking by 50%, a dampener by like -48%? around -64% in a ship with a bonus to dampening Things like this are a source of friction between PvE and PVPers IMO. Damps don't work against rats, so missioners/ratters don't fit them. Fitting convergence is needed.
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:42:00 - [36] Edited by: Laboratus on 06/02/2007 15:40:23 Originally by: Aramendel And this has to do what with the issue? 1) 1 sensor booster does not counter 1 sensor damperner. Period. Even if you use them on ships without the spec. 2) ECM is more universal than damperners, yes. But damperners are more powerful in the 20-50k area. Simply because they work every time. They are not chancebased. And 3 SDs on a non-specced ship or 2 SDs on a specced is plenty to get any non-recon ship with 1 SB2 below WD2 targeting range. 3) SP cost? You gotta be kidding me. sensnor linking and signal dispersion 4 are 360k SP - 1 week training is nothing major. And it's the same for every other EW system. You missed the point here. 1. Since the boni ships only come in cruiser and frig size their max targeting range isn't that great. Hence, ships designed to function at 180-200 km are totally and completely immune to them, since they can't target that far without saccing so many mid slots, they can no longer damp effectively. And the damp ships go pop very fast. Ships fighting at close range don't need the targeting range anyways, and will rip em to bits in under 5km easily. Damps are most effective against mid range ships (20-100km) and seem to be aimed at Amarr(?). It's just a bit strange... 2. If you are fitting them on a non boni(and non caldari) ship, you will run into the following problem: You need your midslots for something else. With a long range ship, you are gonna need SB and TCs to reach where you need to reach, with a close range setup you need MWD+injector+web+etc and you will at best have 1 or 2 slot/s free. As you have no boni and too few damps, they are not effective. With a damp spec ship, you are very vulnerable and a sitting duck, since you have no tank, no speed, no nuthing, except the hope that you will not get primaried. 3. Cheap, yes, useless otherwise, yes. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Ra'ita	Posted - 2007.02.06 16:05:00 - [37] Originally by: dalman Ra'ita, read post number 39 in that thread you linked I stand corrected. Sorry about that.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.06 16:29:00 - [38] Edited by: Aramendel on 06/02/2007 16:30:00 Originally by: Laboratus 1. Since the boni ships only come in cruiser and frig size their max targeting range isn't that great. Hence, ships designed to function at 180-200 km are totally and completely immune to them, since they can't target that far without saccing so many mid slots, they can no longer damp effectively. And the damp ships go pop very fast. Ships fighting at close range don't need the targeting range anyways, and will rip em to bits in under 5km easily. Damps are most effective against mid range ships (20-100km) and seem to be aimed at Amarr(?). It's just a bit strange... Before you talk about something please inform yourself about it (or at least read the posts in the thread you are commenting - I explained this here already) because this is now the 2nd time (after your totally incorrect damperner numbers) where you are completely wrong. And right. But not because the reason you gave. Targeting range is a complete nonfactor for damperners. Half of the ships with a spec for them are recons - which have the highest base targetting range of all ships (exept motherships and titans). It does not matter, though, because damperners simply do not work at 180-200k. Hint: look at the module stats. And, yes, you can counter a damperner setup by getting close. But this is not a given. It certainly isn't vs battleships outside nanosetups. You have to be faster then the dampernership first. And WHEN you are in range the damperner ship also has to stay there and not warp out in the 30+ seconds it takes you to lock it. Quote: 2. If you are fitting them on a non boni(and non caldari) ship, you will run into the following problem: You need your midslots for something else. With a long range ship, you are gonna need SB and TCs to reach where you need to reach, with a close range setup you need MWD+injector+web+etc and you will at best have 1 or 2 slot/s free. As you have no boni and too few damps, they are not effective. With a damp spec ship, you are very vulnerable and a sitting duck, since you have no tank, no speed, no nuthing, except the hope that you will not get primaried. 2.) My curse has right now 1 MWD, WD, 3 damps and 1 LSE2 fitted. Works great. Solo tackled a carrier for 5 mins without recieving any damage till the cavallery arrived a few days ago. Similary, a huggin/rapier with 2 webs, 2 damps, WD, and MWD can pretty much kill anything solo, too (unless it can permatank it). Quote: 3. Cheap, yes, useless otherwise, yes. 3.) Again, it's not difficult to any other EW skills. It's a pointless, nonexistant argument. -------------- Also, please not that I am not saying with one word that damperners are overpowered (although they certainly are on the whole better than TDs or (haha) TPs). I am simply stating where their correct strenghts and weaknesses are. What you are saying is plain out wrong.
Celedris Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.06 17:00:00 - [39] Dalman & Aramendel are quite correct. Two PM damps on a Lachesis with a pair of T1 damp rigs will drop you down by 92.5%. Good fleet support often carry six with Suppression V. Against snipers they work pretty well up to ~150km with max skills due to the huge 90km falloff (only one damp needs to hit at that range).
Rastigan Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.06 17:05:00 - [40] Quick little math example .. +50% of 500 scan resolution = 750.. -50% of that = 375. +50% booster does not counter -50% dampener.

Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.06 17:08:00 - [41] Edited by: Laboratus on 06/02/2007 17:05:24 Originally by: Aramendel But not because the reason you gave. Targeting range is a complete nonfactor for damperners. Half of the ships with a spec for them are recons - which have the highest base targetting range of all ships (exept motherships and titans). It does not matter, though, because damperners simply do not work at 180-200k. Hint: look at the module stats. And, yes, you can counter a damperner setup by getting close. But this is not a given. It certainly isn't vs battleships outside nanosetups. You have to be faster then the dampernership first. And WHEN you are in range the damperner ship also has to stay there and not warp out in the 30+ seconds it takes you to lock it. Quote: 2. If you are fitting them on a non boni(and non caldari) ship, you will run into the following problem: You need your midslots for something else. With a long range ship, you are gonna need SB and TCs to reach where you need to reach, with a close range setup you need MWD+injector+web+etc and you will at best have 1 or 2 slot/s free. As you have no boni and too few damps, they are not effective. With a damp spec ship, you are very vulnerable and a sitting duck, since you have no tank, no speed, no nuthing, except the hope that you will not get primaried. 2.) My curse has right now 1 MWD, WD, 3 damps and 1 LSE2 fitted. Works great. Solo tackled a carrier for 5 mins without recieving any damage till the cavallery arrived a few days ago. Similary, a huggin/rapier with 2 webs, 2 damps, WD, and MWD can pretty much kill anything solo, too (unless it can permatank it). Ah, you are basing your arguments on limited availability eq such as Recons etc. True, as such. However, if you look at their more common counterparts, the situation is quite different. Doing balancing through end level content is usually a very good way to f*** up balance for 90% of the playerbase. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
G0rF Gallente The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.02.06 17:27:00 - [42] In response to the OP's "Sensor Dampeners - Do they really work?" I'd say yes [in pvp]. Best used with a few frigates to do the tackling and a couple of larger ships to deal out the damage. A skilled Celestis pilot can reduce a [single] sensorboosted Raven's lockrange to <10KM, which can be quite handy in a small-fleet skirmish. Not recommended for solo combat against anything larger than a cruiser. The Causality international MMO gamers' community
Yakita	Posted - 2007.02.06 19:31:00 - [43] oh please. try combining a high mid slot bs (mael?) with webbing drones a bunch of damps and a 20km weapon gank. solo pvp will never seem so easy...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.06 22:25:00 - [44] Originally by: Laboratus Ah, you are basing your arguments on limited availability eq such as Recons etc. True, as such. However, if you look at their more common counterparts, the situation is quite different. Doing balancing through end level content is usually a very good way to f*** up balance for 90% of the playerbase. I am not basing them on recons, I am giving them as example. A celestis can use damperners just as effecient as an arazu can. A domi or myrmidon also can use damperners quite effeciently. And the opposite is the cause, if you ignore t2 performance when you balance stuff you have a good chance to create i-win setups.
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.06 22:53:00 - [45] Originally by: Aramendel I am not basing them on recons, I am giving them as example. A celestis can use damperners just as effecient as an arazu can. A domi or myrmidon also can use damperners quite effeciently. And the opposite is the cause, if you ignore t2 performance when you balance stuff you have a good chance to create i-win setups. The targeting range argument was based on Recons. I really don't belive in I-Wins. There are strong and weak strategies, but as long as none of them are good against every strategy, it's about choise of strategy, and the ability to be ahead of the masses. I've played a lot of MUDs and MMORPGs from 1997 and I've seen a lot of good games go down the sewer by doing balancing with only the top 2%. If they wan't to be bored as h*** and ruin their game experience, please let them. Usually when this happens the nerf bat starts swinging and the only eq that can perform up to spec is the top eq. This ruins the game for the rest of the community a lot worse then the alternative. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Yukiko Kanezaki Tsunami Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.06 23:08:00 - [46] Edited by: Yukiko Kanezaki on 06/02/2007 23:05:11 Originally by: dalman Originally by: Yukiko Kanezaki IIRC, 1 sensor booster cancles two sensor damps, or something like that. Or perhaps you messed it up and it's the other way... Alright, how does it work then? And, for some strange reason, I thought sensor booster II's boosted like 90% edit -- Missed this, thanks! Originally by: dalman Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Benglada So i can increase my lock range from 4km to 6km? lol. Then you might want to change out of the Velator and buy an incursus. You do not understand things at all. On a ship with bonus to these things, you can get -70.75% lock range from one dampener. Let's assume you fit 4 sensor boosters on your maxed out raven. Congrats, your lockrange is now 358km! Then someone puts 4 dampeners on you. Your lock range is now 19km (well within warp scrambling range). These modules can be extremely effective. Ra'ita, read post number 39 in that thread you linked After we brought it up (me raising concern, naughty boy doing math, shin ra doing testing), it was fixed by seperating positive and negative modules. It sure took the devs quite some time to fix, but it was still fixed long ago.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.07 00:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Laboratus The targeting range argument was based on Recons. If you think this you are still missing the point. And, as a sidenote, it is still wrong since the targeting range of t1 EW cruisers is quite high, a celestis has 65k compared to 70k for the domi and 73k of the mega. 2 SB2s and it has 200k range and still 3 slots left for damps. Using such a setup would be pointless, though, because damps barely work at those distances anyway. What is breaking it's neck is not that it has to use 2 slots for SBs but that damps do only have a chance of about 10% to work at 200k with max skills.
G0rF Gallente The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.02.07 09:42:00 - [48] Originally by: Yakita oh please. try combining a high mid slot bs (mael?) with webbing drones a bunch of damps and a 20km weapon gank. solo pvp will never seem so easy... Ah yes, but the "Not recommended for soloing" was about the Celestis. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that one ;) Hmmmm... webber and damper drones... nice team... The Causality international MMO gamers' community
kill0rbunny Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2007.02.07 10:21:00 - [49] Originally by: Yakita oh please. try combining a high mid slot bs (mael?) with webbing drones a bunch of damps and a 20km weapon gank. solo pvp will never seem so easy... Sure, if you lock your eney before he does. That means you have to have four dampeners, two sensor boosters to do it, leaving you either with absolutely no tank or no damagemods. His friend in a kestrel will get a nice and funny killmail then. It is NOT that easy in everyday pvp. Try doing it your self, not just looking at the figures in Quickfit working out little scenarios in your head. An arazu with dampening devices guided by a battleship that dishes out the damage and nosing your enemy dry to kill his tank is pretty mean. It is not for solowtfpwnage, and that is a good thing. Don't try to nerf anything people are not capable of using because their just too lazy or foolish to do so. If you want to attack stoneagelike, join WoW and get yourself a sword. - I got a portrait now, wheeeee! \o/
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.02.07 10:24:00 - [50] I used 4 dampeners from my Lacheis on a Rookh. I can't recall the lock range but it doesn't mather since he would spend the next year trying to lock me anyway sig nurfed

Givemeyours	Posted - 2007.02.07 10:39:00 - [51] erm do you "nerf all" guys have only Quickfit? Tested the damps a week ago with some corpmates and hey THEY STACK... You can put 3 damps on a celestis (lvl4 cruiser skill) and 3 damps - a damped raven had a lockrange from 11km... 3 other Ships (with 2-3 damps fitted) locked him too and tryed too damp him more. But nothing happend. with around 10 damps he had still a locking range from 11km... So don¦t nerf everything you cant use Just my opinion
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.07 10:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Givemeyours erm do you "nerf all" guys have only Quickfit? Tested the damps a week ago with some corpmates and hey THEY STACK... You can put 3 damps on a celestis (lvl4 cruiser skill) and 3 damps - a damped raven had a lockrange from 11km... 3 other Ships (with 2-3 damps fitted) locked him too and tryed too damp him more. But nothing happend. with around 10 damps he had still a locking range from 11km... So don¦t nerf everything you cant use Just my opinion 1. No, 'we' don't use quickfit. At all. Period. 2. I'm pretty sure you weren't maxed out. Do the same with high skills and add a rig or two. 3. Even in this case... 11km means he was way inside your scrambling range. Even inside your webrange. As in, you can keep him scrambled and webbed and 100% jammed. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Givemeyours	Posted - 2007.02.07 10:58:00 - [53] Edited by: Givemeyours on 07/02/2007 10:55:42 Edited by: Givemeyours on 07/02/2007 10:55:16 Originally by: dalman Originally by: Givemeyours erm do you "nerf all" guys have only Quickfit? Tested the damps a week ago with some corpmates and hey THEY STACK... You can put 3 damps on a celestis (lvl4 cruiser skill) and 3 damps - a damped raven had a lockrange from 11km... 3 other Ships (with 2-3 damps fitted) locked him too and tryed too damp him more. But nothing happend. with around 10 damps he had still a locking range from 11km... So don¦t nerf everything you cant use Just my opinion 1. No, 'we' don't use quickfit. At all. Period. 2. I'm pretty sure you weren't maxed out. Do the same with high skills and add a rig or two. 3. Even in this case... 11km means he was way inside your scrambling range. Even inside your webrange. As in, you can keep him scrambled and webbed and 100% jammed. 2. right 3. right too. But 2 salvos from him and im dead what you want dampeners to be? any idea? like a dampning chance?
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.07 11:19:00 - [54] Originally by: Givemeyours what you want dampeners to be? any idea? like a dampning chance? Uhm, I dunno really. I think it's 3.5 years now since I said that dampeners should be split into two modules, one for range and one for time. And back then I flew a Scorpion with 4 sensor dampeners. Guess I kinda still support that. But I kinda fail to get the concept of dampeners. From my understand, the basic idea is that dampeners (invented by gallante) would force your hostile to get in close to you (where gallante are supposed to rule). Now, that idea is totally flawed in so many ways. Instead dampeners are, and have always been, used to 100% jam targets (just that their effiency at this has gone up and down many time over the years in patches). Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 11:29:00 - [55] Wow, this thread is really scary, and smells a lot of incoming "OMGGNERFDAMPSAREOVERPOWERED" ... Looks a lot like the previous ECM threads and we know how these ended ... Let's face it, everybody complained ECM were overpowered, they ended up being nerfed to oblivion. There WAS a fairly efficient counter to ECM, called ECCM! I've been using it on a regular basis pre-nerf and never got plagued by constant jamming except from dedicated ECM ships (not surprising) ... Now people complained ECCM were useless if you were not jammed ... We went to the nerfmobile and we all know how popular ECM is right now :( Now that damps come into play, and the complaints start to erupt. Somebody mentionned being sensor dampened by 4 damps and being stuck with a ridiculous lock range ... yeah! very few ships can put 4 damps on you and still have enough medlsots for scrambling/webbing/propulsion mods to catch you, so if you end up dampened 4 times, there's likely to be a case of superior numbers against you ... now look at the counter : Sensor booster, useful outside of dampening conditions (reduced lock times in a Bs isn't something to be overlooked, increased lock range on snipers is bliss) ... limited fitting reqs, negligible cap consumption. On the other hand, damps don't necessarily work against all setups, often require 2 or more to get desired effect). Have harsher fitting requirements than boosters, and a not so negligible cap consumption (especially on frigs and to some extent cruisers) Yes, damps are a powerful weapon, but the counter is nowhere near as useless as ECCM was under most combat conditions. One thing is slightly annoying however, it's the extreme usefulness of damps on carriers. Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.07 11:32:00 - [56] Fristly, who talks anything about nerfing? Saying a module can be with the right setup very effective != OMG OVERPOWAD! Outside of ECM on caldari EW ships damps are pretty much the best EW system around, though. Too strong? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly has more weakness than ECM had prekali. But it is also certainly my EW of choice on my (solo) curse and also what I would use on minnie recons. Anyway... 1) installed it to take look at it a couple of months ago. Removed it a couple of minutes afterwards. Can calculate stuff faster manually. 2.) That range would mean either he was using a (single) sensorbooster, you had not lvl 4 in the spec or was not using best named/t2 damps. With 3 t2, lvl 5 cruiser and lvl 4 spec you get a raven to 7k, 11k if he is using a SB2. 3.) Doesn't matter much if he cannot target you, does it? Or care to explain how a raven can stop a cruiser from keeping 11k+ distance to him?


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