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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2056
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Posted - 2016.04.02 20:34:55 -
[31] - Quote
Just a follow-up on this.
The graphics software team discussed revisiting this feature in light of the feedback we've received from players who preferred using it, and has concluded that we do not plan to do so.
Here are the settings I'd recommend trying if you wish to reduce the GPU and battery impact on your client:
Display and Graphics
Adapter Resolution: As low as you're comfortable going depending on your current monitor resolution. UI scaling: 100% Interval: If you're comfortable with a low frame rate, Interval Four. Otherwise, Interval One.
Uncheck all boxes in the center column, labeled Effects.
Resource Cache Enabled: On HDR Enabled: Off
Anti-Aliasing: Disabled Post-Processing: None Shader Quality: Low Texture Quality: Low LOD Quality: Low Shadow Quality: Disabled Interior Effects: Low Interior Shader Quality: Low
General Settings
In the far right column, move the Transparency dial to 0 (far left) and uncheck Enable Window Blur.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3798
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Posted - 2016.04.03 03:14:43 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Just a follow-up on this.
The graphics software team discussed revisiting this feature in light of the feedback we've received from players who preferred using it, and have concluded that we do not plan to do so.
Here are the settings I'd recommend trying if you wish to reduce the GPU and battery impact on your client:
(settings table)
CCP Darwin, this is fine, until I undock. Switching all the settings back and forth every time I dock or undock is just not practical. As an example: I run three pilots in a mining op. Once they all dock, Ore is traded to one pilot for refining and manufacturing. And its PAINFUL. All the docked clients kill the fps and client responsiveness, making it hard to do anything. In space the fps suffers a little, but it is acceptable.
So If I could have one set of setting for docked, and another for in-space, your settings advice would be golden. But I cannot do that. What is needed is some way to make the resource draw of a docked pilot be no more than an in-space pilot.
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Maja Chou
49
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Posted - 2016.04.03 13:50:45 -
[33] - Quote
funny in window mode i have no interval other as immediate and one^^ (heared about other levels today for first time)
and i also got signifikant higher grafikload as bevore with the old 2d hangarview and its anoying i dont need shipspinning i dont need little ships flying arround in station, i even DONT need the ship wobbling arround and flashing my eyes during night with some position lights! (oh the undock warning lihgts i love)
i need low grafikworkload while in station to do all the thinks i do with these lot of ingame windows while docket i understand the point to remove 2d function but now guys you have to pay the bill and do something to make the hangarview realy low in power need
right now its better to not dock the chars or only use one charwindow opened while in station
why is there not a way to lower all this grafikload in station and if i hear from sisi about a big screen in hangar with vids on it like in the capt, quartier i guess it will be even more worst in the future
also on this future feature we need mute and pause or a option to show all ingame news only once and stop after this i dont need this on all my chars one on the main its enough^^
or will CCP buy me a new GPU and pay the power bill? or a new fan for my grafikcard because it sounds docked like an airplaneengine?
Da die auf Schildwall vorhandenen Informationen nur einen minimalen Einfluss auf das Endergebnis der Neuspielererfahrung von EVE als ganzes gehabt hätten,habe ich beschlossen, die Informationen so zu belassen, wie CCP sie zu liefern in der Lage ist.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1164
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Posted - 2016.04.03 23:06:44 -
[34] - Quote
You have to have EVE running full screen for interval options above one. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Violence of Action.
61
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Posted - 2016.04.03 23:46:16 -
[35] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:You have to have EVE running full screen for interval options above one. In which case it's a pain to use any other programs on other monitors because Eve disappears as soon as it loses focus. |
Jeb Ashimura
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.04.04 00:23:01 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:The graphics software team discussed revisiting this feature in light of the feedback we've received from players who preferred using it, and have concluded that we do not plan to do so. What to you mean by "revisiting this feature"? a) Bringing back the static hangar, b) increasing performance of the dynamic hangar? You should consider a) and you must address b) if you don't bring back the static hangar. The dynamic hangar is, in its current state, an unacceptable waste of resources, which needs to be significantly improved or kicked out (together with the captain's quarters, which at least can be avoided).
CCP Darwin wrote:Here are the settings I'd recommend trying if you wish to reduce the GPU and battery impact on your client: You cannot seriously expect players to fiddle with the graphics settings whenever we dock or undock. This is beyond impractical, and just not good enough. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2056
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Posted - 2016.04.04 02:03:28 -
[37] - Quote
Jeb Ashimura wrote:What to you mean by "revisiting this feature"? a) Bringing back the static hangar Yes, I mean the team has decided not to pursue some other implementation of the "Load Station Environment" checkbox at this time.
If you like having higher than minimum performance settings while undocked, but you'd still like to reduce GPU load while docked, I'd recommend starting with turning window transparency to zero and disabling the window blur effect, both under General Settings.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3801
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Posted - 2016.04.04 13:32:22 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Jeb Ashimura wrote:What to you mean by "revisiting this feature"? a) Bringing back the static hangar Yes, I mean the team has decided not to pursue some other implementation of the "Load Station Environment" checkbox at this time. If you like having higher than minimum performance settings while undocked, but you'd still like to reduce GPU load while docked, I'd recommend starting with turning window transparency to zero and disabling the window blur effect, both under General Settings. The issue with zero window transparency is it reduces situational awareness in space. You can see the tags behind the windows, unless you turn off transparency. So, what you are saying is I have to ruin my in-space game to get reasonable fps when docked. That's bad design. I should not have to make that decision.
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2056
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Posted - 2016.04.04 17:51:18 -
[39] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:So, what you are saying is I have to ruin my in-space game to get reasonable fps when docked. That's bad design. I should not have to make that decision. I'm really curious about the specifics of what's going on for you. The hangar scene is a lot less heavy than anything you will see while undocked.
Do me a favor: Using your preferred graphics settings, open up the FPS meter (ctrl-f), and submit a bug report from in-game (F12 menu) with screenshots of the FPS meter while in station, immediately after undocking with the camera pointed at the station, and while engaging in normal gameplay away from the station. Then mail me the bug report number in-game.
My suspicion is that you may have all of your graphic quality settings turned up enough that you're not getting what we consider baseline acceptable performance in any of these situations. However, if there's something specifically bad about the hangar scene, we'd be happy to take a look.
Edit: I know you probably already have this covered, but please make sure that you're looking at the hangar scene and not the captain's quarters while docked.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3802
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Posted - 2016.04.05 02:44:37 -
[40] - Quote
EBR-75531 sent. You are sort of right that I am doing something that lowers the FPS to a level you may consider unacceptable: I am running three clients on a six year old laptop. But although 10 FPS is sort of low, it is acceptable for mining. Its also what this thread is all about: multiple clients, with some or all docked, causes very low FPS, when those same clients all in space is acceptable.
Result: Hangar view: 6 Undocked: 8 At an anomaly: 10
Single client results (not included in the bug report): Hangar view: 20 Undocked: 30 At an anomaly: 30
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2057
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Posted - 2016.04.05 10:42:18 -
[41] - Quote
Thanks. After having a look, the short version is that you're running on a machine that's below our min spec, but I see a few things you could change in your settings that would probably help. I'll email in-game with details.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Jeb Ashimura
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.04.05 21:53:10 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:So, what you are saying is I have to ruin my in-space game to get reasonable fps when docked. That's bad design. I should not have to make that decision. I'm really curious about the specifics of what's going on for you. The hangar scene is a lot less heavy than anything you will see while undocked. I know that you specifically asked Vincent, but I'd like to provide additional data based on my MacBook Pro running three clients simultaneously. That machine definitely exceeds CCP's minimum specs.
While docked, all clients easily show 30-40 fps with low graphics settings. The big problem is that all three clients require the high performance mobile GPU, and also full CPU power -- both shown by the OS X activity monitor -- even when the "hide" function is used to minimize the UI. This is burning battery power like crazy, even if the clients are not doing anything but displaying some chat windows. A minimized/hidden EVE client should not require a 3D mobile GPU and big chunks of CPU when it does nothing but keep a server connection alive, by sending a few data packets back and forth. No hangar eye candy is worth this amount of energy consumption. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2057
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Posted - 2016.04.06 00:50:20 -
[43] - Quote
Jeb Ashimura wrote:A minimized/hidden EVE client should not require a 3D mobile GPU and big chunks of CPU I agree, and my experience is that minimized clients are a lot better behaved on Windows than what you describe as your Mac experience. This may be a limitation of the Cider &/or Wine compatibility layer or something we're doing to enable Eve to work with that layer. I have a Mac dual-GPU laptop myself at home and I'll do a little testing with multiple clients to see if I experience similar issues.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Violence of Action.
62
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Posted - 2016.04.06 01:04:09 -
[44] - Quote
For those who have issues and don't want to mess up their map view, you can also look at the Ship Tree to reducing rendering load. It's super annoying, but better than nothing. |
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
112
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Posted - 2016.04.19 02:54:37 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Our minimum specification today (which has been in place since 2013, as I write this) corresponds to a typical gaming computer from mid-2007 for Windows or about 2010 for Mac, which is old enough that continued operating system support will soon start to be an issue for owners of those systems, and that can be an issue for us too, because our development tools must support operating systems that work on those computers as well.
We do not actively prevent Eve from running on computers that do not meet our minimum specification, so if your gameplay is of a style that's tolerant of performance that's below our standards, you may find that such a system continues to work for you after it's no longer supported. (Note, however, that occasionally we may make changes, such as our current plan to retire the old launcher June 30th, that affect Eve's software support for older operating systems. This is unavoidable.)
So take comfort that we don't make these decisions lightly, and if your favorite computer for playing Eve is adversely impacted by this change, I'm sorry, but I hope you can find an alternative that allows you to stick with us. The problem is not really if the hardware can't or can support it, it is about if it is a good idea to do it or not.
I have a Radeon HD7870 so my GPU can support it and even the Captain's Quarter if I want to. But most of my time in this game is in a station, sometimes with multiple accounts... So obviously it is not a good idea to stress the GPU and waste electricity (and so real money) just to follow trade orders, wait for fleet or chatting. I didn't have to hear the GPU fan before you removed this option and I am already in low settings, no transparency and this damn blurring effect who was an eye strain, etc. just for the sake to NOT make my GPU work for nothing. I just have to reactivate decent details when needed.
In fact, the real problem is that EVE requires more power INSIDE than OUTSIDE a station (in non-battle situations). That don't make any sense as there is only one ship to render apart for the non-accurate part of the background where you see ships moving and I don't understand it myself.
Maybe you can make things simple, like just... not render the ship or the element who ask for power when this option is active, while keeping the 3d engine online. Or make sure that the station is really well optimized.
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus wrote:And over time, with all those incremental changes, I do wonder the real weight that also has on your player base. Sure anough many such people will upgrade their hardware or buy a new computer. But not everyone can. We're still under the effect of a financial crisis and while the original intent behind PLEX was a different one, the data seems to point that not everyone can (or is at least willing) to spend real money to sub their accounts, much less invest on a new or renewed computer. You can include the "small details" who seems to be nothing individually, but when accumulated become a serious annoyance for this game. For exemple, I have to make the "Selected item" window really big to get big interactable icons all the time, just because CCP thought that their size should be automatically adjusted, with no options to maintain them big if we want, a bad decision they made since 2007... or how waste monitor space for nothing. Also, I wonder how much players are inpacted by the bubble of light and thunders who appear sometimes in the middle of stargates because I am annoyed by them each time. Sometimes I cover it with the wallet window, especialy after XX jumps... I know that the EULA has a seizure warning for "rare" instances, but is it a valid reason to create effects who will voluntary provoke them without any way to disable them (and I think that stargates aren't "rare" instances) ?
The amount of small annoying details and the reduction of his accessibility (RGB sliders removed, neocom without colored icons, etc.) make me wonder why I still play at this game as they seriously affected my gameplay. Well, I did leave for some months multiple times... but I guess that some players did decide to leave for good.
For the moment, well... I just disable the new map and I guess that I will have to get the reflex to use it as Gpu-Saver, as CCP -½ have concluded that we do not plan to do so -+ ... |
Idame Isqua
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
30
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Posted - 2016.05.10 10:31:15 -
[46] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:For those who have issues and don't want to mess up their map view, you can also look at the Ship Tree to reducing rendering load. It's super annoying, but better than nothing.
Hey CCP my macbook air is now dead Not blaming you But now I can't eve unless I'm at home
IMO CCP dosn't understand the issue Players don't want extra "features" that don't do anything It sounds like your ignoring a lot of what we are saying Without explaining whats so hard about having a clear cut static background minimum resource draw.
Heres another example of why this was is a bad move big issue Tonnnnns of people have multiple clients open while running other games
O wait I think the important point here is Lots of people play eve with more than one monitor Maybe trading chatting waiting for stuff to happen docked in station while watching a movie or playing another game or anything. At the end of the day you just hugely increased the resource lord on your customers systems for zero benefit to them.
IDK personally I'm totally against making market trading a 100% offline event. But I guess you will figure out whats good for the game once none is in local in major trade hubs And daily logged in numbers significantly drop
Personally CCPs responses to this issue combined with your response to the lack of LP implementation. "Your not a priority, not because you lack merit, but because you lack socio-political salt and hate" Has soured my view of CCP.
Testing out using ISIS as a background ty missy |
Industrial Madness
Ouroboros Orbital Infrastructure
0
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Posted - 2016.05.13 18:49:18 -
[47] - Quote
Thank you for explaining CCP Darwin. Though IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖd prefer we just leave this issue be I feel I also need to chime in.
I have a feeling that this is something quite a lot of people noticed and found irritating, but just havenGÇÖt voiced an opinion on; but that doesnGÇÖt mean it wouldnGÇÖt be worth spending a tiny fraction of development resources to make their experience that bit better.
As you can see from people asking for a black screen we arenGÇÖt looking for anything fancy, something that would take 1 maybe 2 days of dev time tops.
If you felt you had to keep it within the lore etc. someone could make a simple background saying something along the lines of GÇ£External Camera Drones offline. No other feeds detected. Ocular input disabledGÇ¥
10 minutes on Photoshop for one of the art guys (maybe an hour if they want to make it look snazzy), a few hours programing, and a few hours making sure it scales with different display resolutions. If you really wanted to go all out an extra day to get that sentence translated for all the different client languages and a bit of QA testing to make sure itGÇÖs colour-blind friendly.
ThatGÇÖs it, job done for the foreseeable future, no maintenance required.
Please? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
10725
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Posted - 2016.05.18 05:45:21 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:we do not plan to do so. Crushing all the dreams with a hammer made of heart shattering NO.
Industrial Madness wrote:ThatGÇÖs it, job done for the foreseeable future, no maintenance required.
Please? Cant you see?
NO.
Why? You will not understand, because its inconceivable to you all, that is why. Now pray for something else!
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Planetary Interaction 2.1
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3841
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Posted - 2016.05.18 15:04:10 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Thanks. After having a look, the short version is that you're running on a machine that's below our min spec, but I see a few things you could change in your settings that would probably help. I'll email in-game with details. I'm not sure I replied to this in another thread, but you are not seeing my machine. I'm on a Mac using the new Wine wrapper, and that is hiding the machine I'm really on. Its a 17 inch MacBook Pro.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2557
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Posted - 2016.05.20 19:47:46 -
[50] - Quote
It seems really bizarre to me that my computer works harder with five clients docked than it does with five clients out in space. I've started going AFK cloaked in space because otherwise my computer puts out so much heat that the AC in my house has to run continuously.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Jeb Ashimura
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2016.05.21 23:59:49 -
[51] - Quote
Any news on this? If CCP resists the idea of a static hangar background, for whatever reason, how about limiting the hangar interior to one frame per second? I doubt this is less hassle than a static background, but there must be something you guys can do to avoid this utter waste of energy caused by GPUs running hot for naught.
Again: the dynamic hangar adds nothing whatsoever to my personal experience of EVE, other than tons of annoyance about the shockingly bad performance. If CCP stubbornly insists on doing the dynamic hangar, at least do it right in terms of performance. |
Eris Tsasa
Fweddit White Legion.
2
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Posted - 2016.05.22 00:07:54 -
[52] - Quote
Has anyone asked about the fact they couldn't devote resources to continue being able to load a static image of the station interior to help their customers but they can maintain the animated and annoying billboards/ad's inside stations? |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2084
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Posted - 2016.05.25 11:08:05 -
[53] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: I'm not sure I replied to this in another thread, but you are not seeing my machine. I'm on a Mac using the new Wine wrapper, and that is hiding the machine I'm really on. Its a 17 inch MacBook Pro.
Yeah, sorry, we're still working out how to get better reporting of system specs via our Wine wrapper. The most recent 17" MBP is still a pretty modest machine for Eve and I believe turning down your settings should be something to consider.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2084
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Posted - 2016.05.25 11:13:33 -
[54] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:It seems really bizarre to me that my computer works harder with five clients docked than it does with five clients out in space. I've started going AFK cloaked in space because otherwise my computer puts out so much heat that the AC in my house has to run continuously. Are all five clients visible at once? If four of them are minimized, they shouldn't be contributing to your load.
That said, the hangar scenes are somewhat heavier than in-space scenes because you're surrounded by geometry which has physically-based-rendering shaders applied. Turning your shader quality to "Low" for a few clients might help.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3852
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Posted - 2016.05.25 13:27:12 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Vincent Athena wrote: I'm not sure I replied to this in another thread, but you are not seeing my machine. I'm on a Mac using the new Wine wrapper, and that is hiding the machine I'm really on. Its a 17 inch MacBook Pro.
Yeah, sorry, we're still working out how to get better reporting of system specs via our Wine wrapper. The most recent 17" MBP is still a pretty modest machine for Eve and I believe turning down your settings should be something to consider. Ive turned down things about as far as they can go. With three clients, its on the edge of unplayable, even for mining. The thing is, its worse than it was a year ago. You are going backwards in terms of improving things. As soon as Apple comes out with a new 17" laptop, I'll get it.
BTW, the main reason it gets unplayable is low frame rate seems to reduce client responsiveness. For example, right click in space, wait for menu. Slide to my travel list, wait for a sub-menu. Slide to my station, wait for menu. Slide to "Dock", wait for it to highlight. Its all that waiting that is annoying. Its like the client is saying "I'm too busy making a space scene to look at where the mouse is". Well, I would much rather have it look at where the mouse is than make a space scene. Is there anything you can do to keep the client responsiveness constant, irrelevant of frame rate? Somehow divorce the two?
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Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
502
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Posted - 2016.05.25 13:47:06 -
[56] - Quote
Station performance has taken a hit for me after I upgraded to win10. Static environment or a more efficient scene would be quite welcome.
(Also, huge advertisement billboards with moving pictures and dozens of blinking lights makes it really annoying to have the game up on a second monitor.) |
Leucy Kerastase
650BN
31
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Posted - 2016.05.25 15:09:50 -
[57] - Quote
I really wouldn't mind if you (CCP) just gave us back "the door," though I guess that probably still wouldn't be free from the problem of increased QA load for you. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3853
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Posted - 2016.05.25 17:43:19 -
[58] - Quote
How about implementing the exterior view for all stations, not just citadels? That will use less graphics, especially if I zoom all the way out.
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Technobizzmo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.06.04 16:16:53 -
[59] - Quote
Wow just came back to this game and this sucks. I find it hard to believe that something so simple would be such a problem for the Dev team. I will not be renewing the subscription due to this slow station environment. That was my fav part of the game, sitting in station and messing around with stuff. Now it's impossible without upgrading my PC. No way... |
Technobizzmo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.06.04 16:25:07 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:It seems really bizarre to me that my computer works harder with five clients docked than it does with five clients out in space. I've started going AFK cloaked in space because otherwise my computer puts out so much heat that the AC in my house has to run continuously. Are all five clients visible at once? If four of them are minimized, they shouldn't be contributing to your load. That said, the hangar scenes are somewhat heavier than in-space scenes because you're surrounded by geometry which has physically-based-rendering shaders applied. Turning your shader quality to "Low" for a few clients might help.
I find your answers annoying and useless. We know how to increase performance by farting around with settings. The problem is your team has cut out an important option. The biggest part of eve IMO is sitting in station "preparing" things. This will cause people to not use Eve as much due to performance drop across the board. I also find it annoying you say this is a problem for the Dev team. To me, this seems like a simple option to maintain. This needs to be fixed, and whoever's idea it was to drop this option should be fired. |
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