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MadTrojan Sarain
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:02:38 -
[1] - Quote
As the title say's.
Is EVE now officially P2W?
Why I ask this; you can now use skill injectors. More to the point that someone, paid over $2k real money buying plex to sell for in game currency and then buying skill injectors to then become top skilled player.
So yes, I understand buying plex for in game currency has been around for a while as is using in game currency to buy plex time but now has it gone to far?
Does it even matter? That someone playing ten years of hard core skill learning, to then be equalled by a paid player of same skill set from 1 day.
Yes experience counts for a lot but then the real question because; why have skill's now? If you can rush game content in a lot of way's...
Has this diluted what CCP was?
Just a player intrigued and want to hear your constructive thoughts at hand.
Sincerely |
Paranoid Loyd
8529
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:05:18 -
[2] - Quote
You can't buy the knowledge required to play the game well, so no, it's not.
Fix the Prospect!
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Elijah Sool
Extended Operations
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:05:46 -
[3] - Quote
*sigh* |
Reaper infliction
Kontained Chaos Affirmative.
1
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:06:36 -
[4] - Quote
It's 1 thing to have all the skills as a new player but its another thing to know how they all work. Experience in the game should still win over the pay to win noob
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Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
869
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:13:05 -
[5] - Quote
yes, it has gone too far
PLEX was pushing it. it was right on the boundry between pay2win and providing a free2play method Skill injectors are outright pay2win and theres no question about that.
my only question is why is there no protests about skill injectors like there were for monocles? that is puzzling.
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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thatonepersone
Black Jack 0-1
35
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:14:22 -
[6] - Quote
Skill injectors are not P2W in the same way plex is not. Both are ways of getting something everybody can get faster. Pay to win would be if there was a ship that was better than all of the other ships of its class that you could only buy with real life money. |
Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
869
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:14:45 -
[7] - Quote
Reaper infliction wrote:It's 1 thing to have all the skills as a new player but its another thing to know how they all work. Experience in the game should still win over the pay to win noob
so if WOW or another game let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?
Please quit videogames now. you are the cancer that is ruining my videogames.
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
67
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:16:32 -
[8] - Quote
So slow. |
Kharnakh
Vak'Atioth Dominion
52
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:18:58 -
[9] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?
They actually have this in Lord of the Rings Online and Star Wars The Old Republic, possibly others. |
Divine Entervention
Hunters Elite Krab Republic
826
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:26:09 -
[10] - Quote
If the P stands for Post
Yes |
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Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
871
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:26:47 -
[11] - Quote
Kharnakh wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote: so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?
They actually have this in Lord of the Rings Online and Star Wars The Old Republic, possibly others. i guess thats another reason to never play those games.
I dont know about others, but i enjoy playing the game and unlocking new things, progressing though the levels and gaining new abilities. It keeps the game interesting; theres always something new around the corner.
Being able to just buy everything outright ruins that. But fine, if you dont like that, ruin it for yourself. In a singleplayer game. Where it doesn't affect everyone else.
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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Blind Brother
Backwater Redux Tactical Narcotics Team
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:28:25 -
[12] - Quote
There are about a million threads you could read to get all the answers (and a whole lot of commentary/ranting), personally, I'd start with the Dev Blog post about the feature and the follow-up threads after the skill extractors/injectors were released.
That said, simply put, no. It does not make EVE Online any different.
The dumber (AFK?) miners/ratters still get hot dropped. People who pay attention to local and intel channels remain safe. While the age of a character never really mattered in my mind (I've personally got 7 year old characters with starting skill points, and 2 year old characters with tens of millions) the only relevant change here is that a 1 or 2 day old character *can* light a cyno from a stealth bomber. This means that rather than treating the day-old neutral in local as a passive threat (scout), you treat them more as an active threat (hot dropper; move to the next system over, or next constellation over, if you want to PVE).
I have yet to use a skill injector on any of my characters - but I have bought a number of extractors to trim out unwanted/unneeded skills on a couple. I sold one injector to off-set the cost of the extractors I bought and I'm holding on to the rest for now.
I believe a lot of players like the idea of stream-lining their characters for what they want to do with them, and having the ability reallocate your SP, even if it might be at a loss, is still better than having skills you never use trained to level 5.
Plus, like everyone says, SP does not equal playing ability. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14438
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:29:08 -
[13] - Quote
Kharnakh wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote: so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?
They actually have this in Lord of the Rings Online and Star Wars The Old Republic, possibly others. eve ,unlike those games, will bend you over a barrel regardless of your sp level if you dont have the knowledge or experience to back it up.
iv seen players with under 5m sp solo pimped out pvp fit marauders with nothing more than an assault frigate , guidance and massive balls.
the character bazaar has allowed one to buy sp for years, the only thing injectors chance is you can no longer make assumptions on characters based off of their age.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Capsule Collector
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:30:59 -
[14] - Quote
If you really believe that having more SP than another person is the predominant factor in who wins a fight, then trying to explain to you why Skill Injectors are not P2W is a futile effort. |
NotTheSmartestCookie
New Order Logistics CODE.
68
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:31:11 -
[15] - Quote
Absolutely. It used to be that haulers avoided lowsec, but these days they just juice up on skill points, jump into lowsec in a T1 industrial, bust the gate camp, scoop the corpses, do a barrel roll over the station and slowly make their way to highsec again. It is disgusting! |
Persephone Alleile
Nocx Initiative
110
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:33:49 -
[16] - Quote
Eve is now P2W, pay to welp ships you have no business flying.
Saw a new player using a Paladin to rat in a C2 wormhole system recently, as you can guess it didn't end well for him. |
Blind Brother
Backwater Redux Tactical Narcotics Team
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:33:59 -
[17] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?
Please quit videogames now. you are the cancer that is ruining my videogames.
Pretty sure that with the last few expansions of WOW you get to "level up" a character to the max level of the previous expansion, plus all the "skills" in that game are bought once for a gold piece or two or handed to you when you level up now....
Now if you had mentioned Everquest, back when there were hell-levels and no bonus EXP hotspots and you had to go to Freeport or the Common Lands to buy/sell ****, you might have had a soapbox to stand on there....
Do you even video game, bro? |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
797
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:39:54 -
[18] - Quote
You can't win eve. Eve is a sandbox.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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MadTrojan Sarain
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:42:14 -
[19] - Quote
Capsule Collector wrote:If you really believe that having more SP than another person is the predominant factor in who wins a fight, then trying to explain to you why Skill Injectors are not P2W is a futile effort.
Was intended to be a constructive post; hence any thought posted was valid.
Unless intended as trolling. So the only unconstructive points is not making one at all!
Better yet, assuming that it's a futile effort to explaining to me; why they are not p2w but make a comment that leads to no constructive point.
Was that not futile in the first place?
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1003
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:52:34 -
[20] - Quote
What is the difference between skill injectors and buying a character with the needed skills from the character bazaar? Before the injectors I could just buy and sell Plex then use the isk to purchase someone else's preskilled character. So really, what changed?
The cost maybe and that you inject skills to a character of your choosing instead of getting a premade character. Still, if you consider buying skills as pay-to-win, then the character bazaar allowed for that option long before injectors.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7368
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:55:37 -
[21] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:You can't buy the knowledge required to play the game well, so no, it's not. So you're saying no game is P2W?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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TuDDi
Mindstar Technology Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:59:19 -
[22] - Quote
You can still have all the skills in the game and get killed by a t1 fitted noob frigate due to your stupidy, so no its not pay2win. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1060
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:05:04 -
[23] - Quote
NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:Absolutely. It used to be that haulers avoided lowsec, but these days they just juice up on skill points, jump into lowsec in a T1 industrial, bust the gate camp, scoop the corpses, do a barrel roll over the station and slowly make their way to highsec again. It is disgusting!
Y-You mean to say someone who injected SP to have all the relevant skills for a battle badger will kill my rattlesnake, 3 logi alts and falcon alt while I solo but the guy who just plain trained into a battle badger will get roflstomped by me? WHY EVE IS INDEED P2W!
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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MadTrojan Sarain
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:11:39 -
[24] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:What is the difference between skill injectors and buying a character with the needed skills from the character bazaar? Before the injectors I could just buy and sell Plex then use the isk to purchase someone else's preskilled character. So really, what changed?
The cost maybe and that you inject skills to a character of your choosing instead of getting a premade character. Still, if you consider buying skills as pay-to-win, then the character bazaar allowed for that option long before injectors.
With skill injectors, you can buy with plex via real money and have a character tailor made; with this Bazaar thing, you don't always get 100% what you want....not having bought any, that is an assumption on my part.
So can you really compare a tailor fit day one character to a bazaar character; that may not fit all the bit's you'd like?? Maybe people didn't think bazaar characters was to obvious compared to skill injectors?
Again, my other question still comes to; is there any point to have skill points?
Is it just another form of cash for CCP to yield in.
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Simon Pirodet
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:14:55 -
[25] - Quote
MadTrojan Sarain wrote:As the title say's.
Is EVE now officially P2W? Just a player intrigued and want to hear your constructive thoughts at hand.
Sincerely
Then read the other 100 blogs and 1000 other forum posts about it.
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Lavitias Arjar
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:19:24 -
[26] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Reaper infliction wrote:It's 1 thing to have all the skills as a new player but its another thing to know how they all work. Experience in the game should still win over the pay to win noob
thatonepersone wrote:Skill injectors are not P2W in the same way plex is not. Both are ways of getting something everybody can get faster. Pay to win would be if there was a ship that was better than all of the other ships of its class that you could only buy with real life money. so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you? Please quit videogames now. you are the cancer that is ruining my videogames.
WoW already lets you do that along with some others. Guess what fresh 100's in WoW suck ass.
Also how is using a skill injector any different from character bazarr it's not besides the fact you can get a more focused character for possibly cheaper now. |
Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy
68
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:25:37 -
[27] - Quote
Reading all of the "Skill matters more than SP" posts really takes me back.
More specifically, it takes me back to my old MMO days when I used to say the same thing. Then I realized I was just a loser who was making excuses for being clever at being poor.
People seem to be missing a lot of aspects of this argument. The ability to fly a ship is important, yea, but the skills of the pilot also matters. Who'd win: The 2m SP Daredevil or the 100m SP Daredevil? Honestly, I'd put my money on the guy with Core fitting skills at 5, T2 guns and tank, and higher Navigation skills. You get to a point where SP matters more than skill.
Oh, but who am I kidding? I'm obviously posting among the most elite to who solo entire fleets for fun and run with 100+ man blobs through FW space. |
ugh zug
106
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:31:18 -
[28] - Quote
lol ccp is really raking in the short term cash. what i don't understand is how people don't feel like they are being taxed twice. i mean you pay to train you characters over time now you're paying to remove the training you ALREADY paid for. ccp is laughing it up right now. they even announced nerfing multi boxing further with carrier changes, setting off injector buying frenzy as pilots liquidate their now useless carrier alts. only time will tell what will happen to the state of the game but losing all those carrier alt subs probably wont hurt too much... right?
Regardless if one considers it p2w or not, it's a shortcut. plex/skillinjectors/character trading allow you to skip grinding or time training, which is not fair play and never has been.
Want me to shut up?
Remove content from my post,1B.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
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IronBank
Moosearmy I N F A M O U S
8
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:44:51 -
[29] - Quote
If you think EVE is P2W then IDK what or how we can fix you. Skills does not = win. You could always buy plex or GTC's to sell for isk You could always buy a character from the forums. It takes 25k USD+ to do what I did and take a character to max skills. This equates to 2 Trillion isk give or take a few billions. For the same amount of isk or $$ value, you could have purchased 20 x 100 Million SP characters from the forums... Would you rather have : 1 x Maxed Character like mine (can only do one thing at a time) Or
- Titan Pilot
- Titan Pilot
- Titan Pilot
- Titan Pilot
- Mom Pilot
- Mom Pilot
- Mom Pilot
- Mom Pilot
- High Sec JF Alt
- Null Sec JF Alt
- Sub Cap Pilot
- Dread Pilot
- Carrier Pilot
- Indy Alt
- Indy Alt
- Cyno Alt
- Cyno Alt
- Cyno Alt
- Cyno Alt
- Cyno Alt
*** All 20 above chars come with their respective ships too fully fitted *** Skill point injectors are just an extension of plex / char bazzer with an added convenience factor. If you still think this is P2W then you do NOT understand Eve at all and possibly never will. |
Janna Shihari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:50:20 -
[30] - Quote
MadTrojan Sarain wrote:As the title say's.
Is EVE now officially P2W?
Why I ask this; you can now use skill injectors. More to the point that someone, paid over $2k real money buying plex to sell for in game currency and then buying skill injectors to then become top skilled player.
So yes, I understand buying plex for in game currency has been around for a while as is using in game currency to buy plex time but now has it gone to far?
Does it even matter? That someone playing ten years of hard core skill learning, to then be equalled by a paid player of same skill set from 1 day.
Yes experience counts for a lot but then the real question because; why have skill's now? If you can rush game content in a lot of way's...
Has this diluted what CCP was?
Just a player intrigued and want to hear your constructive thoughts at hand.
Sincerely
You still have to farm those skills though, either in game or irl.
Giving the chance to level the playground for new players is only a good thing, if you do not want the game to stagnate; do not underestimate the age of this game.
I find baffling that people cannot see the injectors under this point of view.
Skill injectors will only better this game. |
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