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Cyrene Initiative denies SF the surrender they want.

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Drago Salteri	Posted - 2007.02.06 23:13:00 - [1] 2007.02.06 15:03.22 -- Cyrene Initiative Denies SF's surrender demand. Drago Salteri, Red Eclipse Press Secretary. Senior officials of Cyrene Initiative have yet again rejected The Star Fractions Terms of surrender. Quoting one official: "The terms are just too onerous. We could handle a payoff, We could surrender a moon or two, and release press releases extolling the virtues of free space. But to give up our whole industry and trade routes is unquestionably out of the equation". Another official had this to say: "It's obvious the terms are set such that we don't surrender. Nobody in their right mind would accept those terms and nobody who wanted a surrender would assert those terms." When pressed on the matter that they already have essentially given up Industry and trade routes, A very high level official responded: "It's true, the Alliance industry and trade is in total Lockdown. Most of our Free Intaki Industrialist have left the Alliance corps and have contracted back their services to the Alliance making it very expensive to do business but we still are doing business." Responding on the Military situation, An alliance commander not wishing to be identified had this to say: "We are in Asymmetric mode. We have two war decs. One from Intaki Union, one from The Star Fraction While we would certainly like to persecute the Intaki Union war, we can't militarily handle The Star Fraction." The only official willing to go on record was Zabrina, the Intaki Industrialist from Red Eclipse. Who had this to say: "Look, The Star Fraction has won the military aspect of this campaign. If that's all they wanted they would have since withdrawn and moved on to other challenges. Now we've gone asymmetric and can only make them waste time, effort and isk by making them do those nightly 50 hop round trips to tie us up in station or in a deadspace complex. Other than that, life goes on. We mine a bit, we mission a bit, we build a bit. When we hear Intel that SF is on their way, we station up, salvage, refine, and check the markets". Notice -- to avoid any conflict of interest accusations, Drago Salteri hereby acknowledges he has a close business and working relationship with Zabrina.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.06 23:19:00 - [2] Who asked you to give up "trade routes and industry" exactly? Star Fraction is recruiting
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.06 23:21:00 - [3] Come now. Do not be so foolish as to lie about the terms of surrender. It just gets things off on the wrong foot. Or is it that your leadership has lied to you? And for the record, engaging in guerrilla actions meets the criteria of asymmetric warfare. Avoiding all forms of combat does not. _
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 02:11:00 - [4] For those inquisitive minds, past surrender/withdrawal terms with Kimotoro Directive forces and one of CYI's corporations can be viewed through the GalNet links below: Nidavellir Kimotoro Directive Caldari Independent Navy Reserve APEX Unlimited Caldari Border Patrol Why would we offer harsher terms to a target that was weaker and less ideologically vain? Has any of these documents asked for territory, money, compensation for losses, or abandonment of loyalty to the misguided organizations they worked for? No. Draw your own conclusions from our public statements, and know that none of these organizations have been attacked by the Fraction since they sought and accepted terms.
Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2007.02.07 02:59:00 - [5] everyone else is surrendering, if CYI prefers to live in Minmatar Stations in metropolis well that is their choice. If you refuse to acknowladge the actual demands of our war partners you are subject to continued agression when ever you try to build something. Intaki Union will break you again and again as needed. Or you could surrender to their terms and continue to do what ever it is you use to do when you weren't huddled in stations. Oh and don't try to build a base in Syndicate again, ever. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 04:14:00 - [6] There is a critical point at which alliances fall apart. Keep on truckin'.
RedSky Hail	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss everyone else is surrendering, if CYI prefers to live in Minmatar Stations in metropolis well that is their choice. If you refuse to acknowladge the actual demands of our war partners you are subject to continued agression when ever you try to build something. Intaki Union will break you again and again as needed. Or you could surrender to their terms and continue to do what ever it is you use to do when you weren't huddled in stations. Oh and don't try to build a base in Syndicate again, ever. Impressive, "Mr. Bliss" Since when did you become the owner of Syndicate region? By this statement alone, I will lose all respect for Star Fraction if they do not look at their "allies" and try to figure out their real intentions. They dont include freespace. They simply said so to get SF on their side.
Phantomas Gallente INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:03:00 - [8] A surrender now or three wars from now is irrelevant from Intaki Unions perspective. We enjoy the destruction of Federation vessels and are not overly concerned about ending our military cycles against CYI. Without a stance of neutrality by CYI for Intaki Separatists there will never be lasting peace between our two groups. In many ways Star Fraction's persistence reminds me of Intaki Union. We must remember that these actions weaken Federation supporters in the targeted areas for months. And so the dance shall continue... -Phantomas [2006.04.30 19:30:23] Vremaja Idama > For it is by men of action as yourself that we as Intaki will find our way into the future.
Doktor Quick	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss everyone else is surrendering, if CYI prefers to live in Minmatar Stations in metropolis well that is their choice. If you refuse to acknowladge the actual demands of our war partners you are subject to continued agression when ever you try to build something. Intaki Union will break you again and again as needed. Or you could surrender to their terms and continue to do what ever it is you use to do when you weren't huddled in stations. Oh and don't try to build a base in Syndicate again, ever. LOL! you actually think intaki union beat CYI? thats rich, SF and their pirate buddies beat CYI, grats on conning them into it though.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:22:00 - [10] Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 07/02/2007 06:22:35 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Who asked you to give up "trade routes and industry" exactly? I can give the answer pretty easily Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Oh and don't try to build a base in Syndicate again, ever. That is the communication that is in this thread a little below the one i quoted from you ms Jasmine. I guess that the ones you call allies in this war, are trying to do that. Not followers of the Freespace belief your organization is talking about, looks like. I can also say that in the beginning of the war we have (the alliance members) received a mail from Phantomas stating that they demand that we remove our business interests from Placid and Syndicate and never return there. A laughable mail, but also a mail and a statement that comes in direct confrontation with the SF beliefs. Something that makes us wonder why Star Fraction is allying with these people, and in fact puts in question the very beliefs of the Star Fraction. Originally by: Sakura Nihil For those inquisitive minds, past surrender/withdrawal terms with Kimotoro Directive forces and one of CYI's corporations can be viewed through the GalNet links below: Nidavellir Kimotoro Directive Caldari Independent Navy Reserve APEX Unlimited Caldari Border Patrol Why would we offer harsher terms to a target that was weaker and less ideologically vain? Has any of these documents asked for territory, money, compensation for losses, or abandonment of loyalty to the misguided organizations they worked for? No. Draw your own conclusions from our public statements, and know that none of these organizations have been attacked by the Fraction since they sought and accepted terms. since we are starting this past announcements thing, i would like to bring your attention to this communication too, which is a formal belief of the CYI people too. CYI stance In that one you will notice that we are not the blind nationalist you try to paint us. In fact evolution for us, came before the guns of SF tried and force it on us. It was a silent one, and we did so choose because we are quite certain that individual choices should remain individual and not become a show for the rest of the galaxy to watch. Your accusations is based on outdated and misleading data by your sources. And that bring us to a problem. We have changed and with that change we have taken some actions that were aiming in the benefit of the ideals we try to uphold. Freedom and equality. The latter is the basic substance of Democracy (depsite the common belief that vote for everyone is). To surrender to you and make us sign that surrendering statement, means that we have to accept that everything we were doing in the last 7 months was under the umbrella of a nationalistic meme. Something that me and in fact almost everyone in the alliance is totally against. We are not the champions of the Federation nationalistic propaganda or even a simple soldier to that. In fact we are aware and skeptical towards some actions that were executed by the Federation. We believe in the ideals of the Federation, but that doesn't mean that we are here to impose any of them, and in fact at the moment Federation has many problems that make this Federation a very distant figure of the dream it's supposed to be. I can go on about this, and i would really be happy to have a discussion with the people of SF for our points of view, since this never happened before the war. That is a mistake maybe by us, because we chose to reform in silence, and not in public. But again maybe is a mistake by the SF alliance members too, that never tried to see where we stand too. As for the surrendering, again i tell you. The current statement that you want us to sign is something that doesn't represent us for long time now. To sign this means that we have to accept that we did not evolve. And we did evolve. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.

Dust Angel Harvest System Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:43:00 - [11] Keep feeding their egos. mirel yirrin > "DU HAST VERBROKEN DAS FORUMERN RULEN! DU SWINE!"
Mazca Lopez INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.07 12:00:00 - [12] If CYI is too week an entity to sustain itself in placid and syndicate I believe it is anyones right to remove you. Your allegiance with the federation was our primary motive to do so, as a neutral unit you are free to do as you please, IF you can sustain yourself, but obviously you can't so i guess its all hypothetical.....
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.07 12:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Mazca Lopez If CYI is too weak an entity to sustain itself in placid and syndicate I believe it is anyones right to remove you. So...might makes right, then?
Coeleth Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 12:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 07/02/2007 06:22:35 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Who asked you to give up "trade routes and industry" exactly? I can give the answer pretty easily Then do so. Please bear in mind that Intaki Union's terms and Star Fraction's terms are unrelated. Please avoid answering a question with a quote made after the question, by someone not representative of Star Fraction. To re-emphasise: Star Fraction's terms do not require you to surrender commerce or trade.
Mazca Lopez INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.07 12:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Nooey Originally by: Mazca Lopez If CYI is too weak an entity to sustain itself in placid and syndicate I believe it is anyones right to remove you. So...might makes right, then? might cleverness diplomacy whatever works best for you. It's not always the biggest guy that comes out on top!
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:02:00 - [16] Yes, but in the specific quote of yours I've outlined, you are saying that might makes right. Correct?
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:22:00 - [17] Violence, naked force, has solved more issues in history than any other factor, and the contrary thinking is wishful thinking at its worse. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms. _
Mazca Lopez INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Nooey Yes, but in the specific quote of yours I've outlined, you are saying that might makes right. Correct? No, Im saying, If they can't handle themselves at what they do with what they have they need a new gameplan, otherewise they become prey of those more capable. And capable doesn't nessecarily mean strong
Kaleigh Doyle Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Violence, naked force, has solved more issues in history than any other factor, and the contrary thinking is wishful thinking at its worse. How regressive.
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:33:00 - [20] Ah, I see Mr Lopez. Now that is something quite different from your original statement which talked about people having a right if they had the might. I think that answered my question well enough. Carry on with the show, by all means.

Mazca Lopez INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Nooey Ah, I see Mr Lopez. Now that is something quite different from your original statement which talked about people having a right if they had the might. I think that answered my question well enough. Carry on with the show, by all means. hmm, looks all the same to me, but then, i don't have a degree in the language we speak here=)
Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2007.02.07 15:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 07/02/2007 15:28:19 you CYI poster IÆll say it again for you. Syndicate is freespace, neutral pod alliances and roving corporations are more than welcome to exist and build the economy of the Intaki Syndicate. that is the Nature of the syndicate. Indeed we are even friendly to most. the Cyrene Iniative however is a pro-Federation Pod alliance that represents the oppression of the Federation and it is the antithesis of the Syndicate Region. That will never be tolerated. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Coeleth Edited by: Coeleth on 07/02/2007 12:46:08 Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 07/02/2007 06:22:35 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Who asked you to give up "trade routes and industry" exactly? I can give the answer pretty easily Then do so, within the scope set in the title of this very thread: Star Fraction's terms. Please bear in mind that Intaki Union's terms and Star Fraction's terms are unrelated. Please avoid answering a question with a quote made after the question, by someone not representative of Star Fraction. Edit for clarity: Intaki Union and Star Fraction are both at war with Cyrene Initiative. On that common goal we agree. How far our agreements span and for how long are not matters relevant to the surrender terms laid before the Cyrene Initiative by the Star Fraction alone. This is hardly a time for conjecture upon the perceived dissimilarities of war-allies' ideologies. To re-emphasise: Star Fraction's terms do not require you to surrender commerce or trade. Am I to understand then that should CYI meet SFs terms SF would withdraw rom the war and leave their allies to fight alone? I ask purely as a bystander as I have no interest in, and indeed a strong dislike for both sides of this conflict.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Kehmor Am I to understand then that should CYI meet SFs terms SF would withdraw rom the war and leave their allies to fight alone? Yes. Intaki Union fight the war for their reasons, we for ours. We would have entered into this war without the involvement of Intaki Union and we feel quite free to leave it at the time of our choosing. We would likewise have absolutely no difficulty with Intaki Union ceasing their military operations against CYI if they chose to do so. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Recruitment
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.07 17:35:00 - [25] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Kehmor Am I to understand then that should CYI meet SFs terms SF would withdraw rom the war and leave their allies to fight alone? Yes. Intaki Union fight the war for their reasons, we for ours. We would have entered into this war without the involvement of Intaki Union and we feel quite free to leave it at the time of our choosing. We would likewise have absolutely no difficulty with Intaki Union ceasing their military operations against CYI if they chose to do so. The Cosmopolite damn, i was rather hoping the answer would be no... so.. how is everyone?
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 17:45:00 - [26] Back to the original point of this thread... If Cyrene wants to talk terms, then appoint two or three people who can negotiate for you and drop myself, The Cosmopolite, or Jade Constantine a line and let's sort out all this "he said, she said". We're not completely unreasonable, stubbon anarchists as common belief would suggest, let's talk terms and either agree on something, or decide to continue killing each other some more.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.07 18:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Coeleth Edited by: Coeleth on 07/02/2007 12:46:08 Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 07/02/2007 06:22:35 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Who asked you to give up "trade routes and industry" exactly? I can give the answer pretty easily Then do so, within the scope set in the title of this very thread: Star Fraction's terms. Please bear in mind that Intaki Union's terms and Star Fraction's terms are unrelated. Please avoid answering a question with a quote made after the question, by someone not representative of Star Fraction. Edit for clarity: Intaki Union and Star Fraction are both at war with Cyrene Initiative. On that common goal we agree. How far our agreements span and for how long are not matters relevant to the surrender terms laid before the Cyrene Initiative by the Star Fraction alone. This is hardly a time for conjecture upon the perceived dissimilarities of war-allies' ideologies. To re-emphasise: Star Fraction's terms do not require you to surrender commerce or trade. The answer was given at the first post Ms Coeleth. Too bad that you avoid the words spoken there. Well not only you but SF as a whole is trying to avoid the real issue at hand. Is CYI the pro Federation nationalists, we are trying to picture them? You keep throwing the words nationalists. We say we are not. Yet you avoid to even discuss it. Looks like we have been categorized without any real evidence i say. Too bad to see that happening. Too bad to see it happening from people I once admired. And in case you haven't understand the terms you are demanding in our surrender, are not acceptable. Not because we are what you say we are. But because we are who we are. And to make us take the steps backwards in order to satisfy your egos is not an option. If you can't find the answer in the first post, there you have it now in a lot fewer words. As for me i am very sad to see SF taking the same route that all the empires of this cluster took. Only way too faster. Your ideology is something that we the people of Cyrene in vast majority agree on the core issues, but sadly your ways of promoting them are becoming more and more tyrannical, resembling the ways that current empires undertook in order to establish their reign. There are more than one path to truth, and more than one ways for someone to evolve. We have chosen a different path, and while we suffer now, we are not going to backtrack to the beginning. Only to go down the same path again. Because our beliefs and the way we want things to evolve does not differ in the core principles from your ideals. Only minor differences, which have to do mainly with the ways that this ideology is spread. You are becoming the monster you are hunting, quite ironically. Unable to sense the change and unable to respect the very core of individuality, which is difference. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 18:53:00 - [28] You say that you don't support the Federation. If this is true, then formally surrendering to us should be completely painless, since you won't be asked to give anything up that you haven't already forsaken. (Please do not deny that you supported the Federation at the beginning of our war against you. Your denial will not be believed.) At the moment, I am baffled by the statements of your diplomats. You will not surrender. Your pilots will not fight. These appear to be courses of action that contradict each other. How long do you think your pilots will stand for this course of inaction? _
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 18:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra If you can't find the answer in the first post, there you have it now in a lot fewer words. The first post in this thread bore absolutely no recognition to any demands for surrender we have ever placed before you. Perhaps you should do what Sakura suggests? Star Fraction is recruiting
Coeleth Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.07 19:08:00 - [30] Well, my colleagues beat me to the draw, but you did direct your response to me Mithrantir, so I'll briefly reply. You have, in our perceptions, shifted stances and apparently your ideals a few times during the course of this short conflict. If this is the evolution, or the latest aspect of the evolution you speak of, then in a way you have us to thank. However, I think everyone has had enough of speculation and this public mud-slinging. I re-iterate Sakura's words; please meet our diplomats for discourse.



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