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Cyrene Initiative denies SF the surrender they want.

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Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.09 19:38:00 - [61] No payment was ever made when I was a director of blood inquisition, proof or stfu. We never surrendered to IU, and during the VF war we were simply acting as mercenaries so I'm not sure how you can claim any victory over us. We fought as long as VF paid us to fight. Also in no war involving intaki union did my losses out weigh my kills, and I don't mean gang kills. In every war with your scum sucking corp I scored more solo kills that i had total losses. As far as I am aware I have only ever lost one ship to IU, unless I am forgetting a shuttle or something. Still I will not argue this further, I talk on the field, and if you think you have what it takes, then I invite you to come and have a little chat.
Amaron Ghant Caldari Warped Mining Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 - [62] Originally by: Crausaum The simple fact of the matter is the war is not lost until the Star Fraction declares victory, then the war will be over and there will be a winner and a loser. We have no major military ability to oppose them and never have really, yet we cannot yield to them under the current terms. Surrendering and handing Star Fraction their victory right now is impossible as we cannot honor the current surrender terms and have no intention of being dragged through the mud when we break it an hour after signing by returning to our duties in the Placid region by clearing obstructions to free passage. Cyrene are mostly Federation citizens or free peoples who operate inside Federation space and as such many of their daily actions will continue to aid the Federation even if they do not directly know it. What the Star Fraction has decided to attack is our way of life and not our political outlook. We will not give up our dignity and citizenship for a flimsy promise of peace. The attacks on the Caldari peoples attending their memorial have demonstrated to us what a low tolerance the Star Fraction has of free will and expression. As the person who executed Gorion Wassenar at the memorial, I¦d just like to say free will and expression has a price. Gorion decided to pay that price, for which I can¦t fault him. It wasn¦t an attack on caldari "peoples", it was a concorde sanctioned execution of a war target; singular. It¦s a cruel universe out there. Darwinian in the extreme. If you take a stance without the muscle to back it up, you WILL be called on it eventually by someone. It¦s no use making grand sounding proclamations here in the IGS and then sitting in station day after day because you lack the stones to either take the fight to the enemy or to surrender. Want a word of advice? negotiate with SF. Burying your head in the sand won¦t make them go away. They have a high boredom tolerance level when it comes to staking out war targets.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:04:00 - [63] Originally by: Crausaum Your offer is insulting when combined with your groups open ended logic and assures us of nothing. I'd say that that was false, but I suspect you wouldn't believe me anyway, so let us look at it this way instead: Failure to surrender does assure you of one thing: that whenever you try to get anywhere or build anything, we'll be there to take it down. You've been given terms. If some wording here or there makes your stomach feel queasy, contact Star Fraction alliance officers and talk. Since the whole deal with the Memorial was brought up, I should point out that there's a lesson for CYI in that incident: when we tell a defeated enemy that they'd better surrender or we'll be back whenever their head raises half an inch, by the Maker you better believe we mean it. There is one way to avoid that being a certainty: surrender. Even if you don't trust our given word, which I assure you is solid - ask PEZCO, CAIN, APEX, KD - what you are facing with your current approach is not so much an uncertain surrender as a certain and perpetual paralysis. Contact us. Talk. Get it over with.
Durok Torn	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I will add that a lot of the reason CYI failed was due to disorganization and the unwillingness to risk ones personal assets for their corp mates success. On the contrary tom, a number of pilots stepped up when it was just IU to fight against, as the number of times we kept you locked down attests to. Even when SF came in with overwhelming force, a lot of people kept up the fight and went in even though our chances of a significant sucess were limited due to SF's overwhelming numerical (and ship wise, qualitative) superiority. I don't think anyone, anywhere, is as out of touch of reality as you Bliss. You view the world with Bliss covered glasses, that would turn shame into glory, defeat into vicotry, and drivel into eloquence. Quiet frankly sir, I can't take anything you say seriously.
Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Durok Torn Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I will add that a lot of the reason CYI failed was due to disorganization and the unwillingness to risk ones personal assets for their corp mates success. On the contrary tom, a number of pilots stepped up when it was just IU to fight against, as the number of times we kept you locked down attests to. Even when SF came in with overwhelming force, a lot of people kept up the fight and went in even though our chances of a significant sucess were limited due to SF's overwhelming numerical (and ship wise, qualitative) superiority. I don't think anyone, anywhere, is as out of touch of reality as you Bliss. You view the world with Bliss covered glasses, that would turn shame into glory, defeat into vicotry, and drivel into eloquence. Quiet frankly sir, I can't take anything you say seriously. please view my sugestion in the other thread. You should watch the newest IU video before you make lies up. just a sugestion. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Oica Gallente Red Eclipse Inc. The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:16:00 - [66] Edited by: Oica on 10/02/2007 02:12:28 Why would he want to watch IU lose a fleet battle and get 4 solo kills? Oh yah, and Star Fraction blow up a POS. WHY would he watch that? DROP it. Its over. We dont exist anymore, remember? :P
Dheen Heph Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.10 03:10:00 - [67] I watched the vid. I got a good laugh at your lies as usual Bliss. 16 vs. 8 you say, what a complete crock of ****. It was even numbers and you got raped, Mr. uber tactician. And then crying about lag as if your side was the only ones getting it. Everytime you open your mouth you're spewing lies, so often I'm convinced you actually believe them. You're a pathetic little man who tries to compensate by telling stories of valor and bravery. How anyone can respect you at all is beyond me.
DarkNicodimus Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:27:00 - [68] Edited by: DarkNicodimus on 10/02/2007 06:24:51 Hey Tomahawk maybe we need to display your pathetic email you sent after your utter destruction on that vid.....You know the one bliss
Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:38:00 - [69] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 10/02/2007 06:37:12 the fact that you are all here and talking tall after we have finally let the remnants of you alliance exist again (in your sad little way) is telling enough for all of IGS to know the truth. you could declare war on us if you were so capable and we so weak... you had 6 weeks to show some spine, hollow words on the IGS do not an alliance make. enjoy your missions, I'll come back and smash you again and again and again. Your bitter cries are sweet music to my barbarian ears. You should have learned by now that I will succeed and you will fail. And not because IÆm better (though than you three I am with no question) but because I have heart and I have backbone. IÆve seen you craven lot abandon your fellows, IÆve seen you cry from stations and talk big on IGS where i can't shoot you down like the whipped dogs you are. In this cluster of hard knock warfare and fast flash death your grit and your gun are all you have. Learn that boys, the lesson is free. War dec or cry, the choice is always yours. ThatÆs all I have to say anymore. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
DarkNicodimus Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:50:00 - [70] Why dont we let everyone draw there own conclusions after reading this winy little email from you after your fleet was destroyed.CYI is far from dead and our dealings with you are far from over 2007.01.02 08:19 nice fight, your focus fire has improved this war and your battleship fleet has grown in number. I think this will be a really fun war, it has been over half a year since we fought with a group that tests our ability. So I salute you for it and no doubt we will have many weeks of good fights to come. this is what EVE is all about! hardcore war to the death where each side throws all its weight into the battle. so I think this is where it will end, either Cyrene dies or we die, either you flee or we flee. To be honest you guys are so large, sometimes over 40 online at a time if the buddy list is correct, this is going to be a serious battle. We might lose, but don't plan to.. so good luck, but not too good. ^_^ Tomahawk Bliss Warlord Intaki Union

Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:55:00 - [71] Originally by: DarkNicodimus Why dont we let everyone draw there own conclusions after reading this winy little email from you after your fleet was destroyed.CYI is far from dead and our dealings with you are far from over 2007.01.02 08:19 nice fight, your focus fire has improved this war and your battleship fleet has grown in number. I think this will be a really fun war, it has been over half a year since we fought with a group that tests our ability. So I salute you for it and no doubt we will have many weeks of good fights to come. this is what EVE is all about! hardcore war to the death where each side throws all its weight into the battle. so I think this is where it will end, either Cyrene dies or we die, either you flee or we flee. To be honest you guys are so large, sometimes over 40 online at a time if the buddy list is correct, this is going to be a serious battle. We might lose, but don't plan to.. so good luck, but not too good. ^_^ Tomahawk Bliss Warlord Intaki Union yup that was me being nice. also "CYI is far from dead and our dealings with you are far from over" is cute. please war dec then. ah, you sneaky, you got me to reply again. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Femfatally INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.10 15:15:00 - [72] Its funny the tenor in the posts... 3 days into the war Toma sends a respect filled mail stating that this is going to be a good war and that you did a good job defeating our fleet... Your response? Well,if i thought for a moment that you would undock and fight us, well, I for one would push hard for a re-war dec... Hell if you wanted to fight us again you could declare war... but you wont. Thats not what you want, you want to sharpen your IGS forum warrior skills and color the pages here with your spleens as you leave them behind when you jack into a pod. Femfatally
Gwydion Telcontar	Posted - 2007.02.10 15:49:00 - [73] Originally by: Femfatally Its funny the tenor in the posts... 3 days into the war Toma sends a respect filled mail stating that this is going to be a good war and that you did a good job defeating our fleet... Your response? Well,if i thought for a moment that you would undock and fight us, well, I for one would push hard for a re-war dec... Hell if you wanted to fight us again you could declare war... but you wont. Thats not what you want, you want to sharpen your IGS forum warrior skills and color the pages here with your spleens as you leave them behind when you jack into a pod. Femfatally /laughs Of course you could always declare war yourselves, but since Star Fraction is now not backing you up (nor is Patriot Pact or Patriot Society) you won't.
Durok Torn Minmatar Red Eclipse Inc. The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:13:00 - [74] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss enjoy your missions, I'll come back and smash you again and again and again. Your bitter cries are sweet music to my barbarian ears. You (and IU) have never smashed us Tom. In this war, SF was all the muscle. Every encounter I had with IU prior to SF's involvment results in a victory for us. Not that we didn't loose a few ships to, it is inevitable in war, but before SF came in with their overwhelming numbers we were having a very enjoyable time against you. I'm sure we'll do it again some time. I look forward to it. Lets see if you have the guts to stand up to us in something approaching even numbers instead of riding on the back of a huge alliance.
Mazca Lopez INTAKI UNION	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:43:00 - [75] Originally by: Durok Torn Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss enjoy your missions, I'll come back and smash you again and again and again. Your bitter cries are sweet music to my barbarian ears. You (and IU) have never smashed us Tom. In this war, SF was all the muscle. Every encounter I had with IU prior to SF's involvment results in a victory for us. Not that we didn't loose a few ships to, it is inevitable in war, *but before SF came in with their overwhelming* numbers** we were having a very enjoyable time against you. I'm sure we'll do it again some time. I look forward to it. Lets see if you have the guts to stand up to us in something approaching even numbers instead of riding on the back of a huge alliance. last i counted SF had 94 pilots, we have 70some, meaning that both our forces combined was outnumbered by you in the beginning.... We had a plan, saw it through and the outcome is clear. You couldn't counter it
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:47:00 - [76] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 10/02/2007 18:44:12 Originally by: Durok Torn You (and IU) have never smashed us Tom. In this war, SF was all the muscle. Every encounter I had with IU prior to SF's involvment results in a victory for us. Not that we didn't loose a few ships to, it is inevitable in war, but before SF came in with their overwhelming numbers we were having a very enjoyable time against you. I'm sure we'll do it again some time. I look forward to it. Lets see if you have the guts to stand up to us in something approaching even numbers instead of riding on the back of a huge alliance. I think you people are overstating this "overwhelming numbers" thing. On paper your alliance outnumbered ours by 2.5 to 1 at the beginning. Your real problem was lack of leadership and coordination. Your leaders decided you'd lost before we even fired a shot at you and that defeatist attitude led to the bulk of your alliance cringing in docks and separated across the cluster rather than presenting organised fleets. Perhaps its the case that your alliance roster was overstuffed with innactive pilots and combat ineffective industrial juniors or something - but from our perspective you had the numbers - you just lacked any form of combat leadership or bravery in battle. Many times you could have killed our vessels but you fled before reaching a decisive advantage. Many times you had the numbers on us - and full superiority in fleet tonnage but all it took was a single loss to send you fleeing and breaking your fleet to the four winds. Now the war is almost over I'm more inclined to critique your performance in even terms - but really, if you insist in telling yourselves you simply lost because you were "outnumbered" you aren't going to learn anything useful from this. You need leaders who lead from the front and aren't afraid to suffer loss. You need commitment and energy and most of all - you need to understand that evasion and hiding does nothing other than teach you how to lose. Star Fraction is recruiting
Gwydion Telcontar Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:32:00 - [77] I am sorry Jasmine, but you are wrong on the leadership front. First of all, the first weeks of the war we did fight you and IU both. The kill mails back that up. Once it was clear that any fleet action on our part would draw both SF and IU fleets and flank us, there was no hope with continuing to just throw ships away, hence the new tactics. Back to leadership. Crausaum and all the CEOs of CYI did everything they could as leaders. There were defections, there were scrubbing of Corp roles, but overall the CEOs (and Crausaum specifically) took votes and listened to the members on what to do. Btw, on paper you are right, we did outnumber you. But as was said on another thread, if 30% of CYI were fighters I would be surprised. Oh, one more thing... a personal question. How come instead of attacking CYI outright, why did you not try to contact CYI leadership and ask their true position on supporting the Federation? The Cosmopolite said in one of his explanatory threads that SF does heavy research on any potential war targets prior to committing to war. It doesn't seem like it was done in this case. Thanks, Gwydion Telcontar Ixion Defense Systems The Cyrene Initiative
Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:52:00 - [78] Originally by: Gwydion Telcontar Oh, one more thing... a personal question. How come instead of attacking CYI outright, why did you not try to contact CYI leadership and ask their true position on supporting the Federation? not to start another round of rabbit flames but it says as much in your public allaince info box, beyond the statements on this very forum by many CYI for the Federation. true now you don't support the Federation, nor have the ability too, but six weeks ago you did. that you don't now is a victory to SF, not to mention IU. It was pretty obvious. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Kunte Kinte	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:19:00 - [79] You do not answer question Tomahak Bliss why did you not contact them it is easy question. KK
RedSky Hail	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:35:00 - [80] Originally by: Kunte Kinte You do not answer question Tomahak Bliss why did you not contact them it is easy question. KK He thought he was in Star Fraction for the moment. He attempted the SFDodge

Coeleth Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:39:00 - [81] Person A asks a question of Person B. Person B answers the question. Person A dislikes the answer, so repeats the question. Person B assumes person A did not understand the first answer, so answers again in a different way in the hopes of being understood. Person A then accuses Person B of changing their beliefs/ideology/reasonings. Person B sighs with frustration. Rinse and repeat on numerous identical threads.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:43:00 - [82] Originally by: Coeleth Rinse and repeat on numerous identical threads. When you keep encountering the same problem again and again with different people and under different circumstances, odds are the causes of the problem lie within yourself.
Nekumi Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:48:00 - [83] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Coeleth Rinse and repeat on numerous identical threads. When you keep encountering the same problem again and again with different people and under different circumstances, odds are the causes of the problem lie within yourself. It's more of a case that you can't change a person's mind with words alone but even knowing that we try our best to be open about what we do.
Coeleth Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:52:00 - [84] Edited by: Coeleth on 11/02/2007 21:49:05 Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Coeleth Rinse and repeat on numerous identical threads. When you keep encountering the same problem again and again with different people and under different circumstances, odds are the causes of the problem lie within yourself. Well, yes. Apart from the fact it's not different people or different circumstances: It's the same handful of detractors and usually upon similar topics. You are of course, perfectly at liberty to disagree with our viewpoints, as we disagree with yours. Time will tell. (edit for typo)
Gwydion Telcontar Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.12 01:53:00 - [85] Whatever. I asked a very specific question to a specific circumstance... and I asked it to Jasmine. If she doesn't want to answer, the silence will speak for itself.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.12 01:58:00 - [86] Gwydion, As I am sure you are aware, we had Cyrene pilots on our payroll. We gathered our information from them.
Gwydion Telcontar Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.12 06:14:00 - [87] /grins Obviously they fed you bad info then. Next time, follow your own SOP and contact the Alliance executor. ;)
Koshmarnaya Akula Khanid Provincial Vanguard Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.02.12 07:38:00 - [88] Oh my god.


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