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Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 19:51:00 - [1] First off: NO THIS IS NOT A JOKE. With all these High Sec PvP corps throwing WarDec's around like confetti and molesting industrial/mining corps who really have not focused on warring, I believe its time we make war in EVE as serious an affair as war in reality. WarDec's should be the LAST resort of a corp vs. corp argument, and should be extremely costly to both sides, not just the victims. For example, to legally declare war of Corp B, as Corp A, you need to register the WarDec with CONCORD (same way as now), but it costs a billion ISK; not a million, not 5 million, ONE (1) billion ISK. Consider it grease money for CONCORD to look the other way. AS WELL, for every factor of 10 members you have more than the victim corp, you must pay an additional 100 million ISK. And no, there is no vice versa, no -100 million ISK for every 10 fewer your corp has. Now, before you all start frothing at the mouth, people remember that you can still kill each other in low security/0.0 without ramifications. (Of course you lose standing, but you 0.0 PvP'ers like to hate on High Sec so much, you can GTFO, thanks.) And to go along with this, allow player corps to WarDec NPC corps. If you want to waste 1 billion ISK to shoot macro miners and freighters in high security, all the power to you.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.07 19:56:00 - [2] Edited by: Humpalot on 07/02/2007 19:54:56 That may be a bit extreme but I would like to see something along these lines. For instance make the first war dec cheap (or as it is today). Make each additional war dec running simultaneously triple the cost (so it'd go something like 5 mil, 15 mil, 45 mil, 135 mil etc. and be cumulative). This way if you have a beef with a specific corp you can have at them relatively easy and do not make war only for wealthy corps but if you want to spam war decs it'll cost you. You could RP that CONCORD isn't going to fuss over a brush fire war but be more concerned at overall mayhem by a dozen wars.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:01:00 - [3] Originally by: Humpalot Edited by: Humpalot on 07/02/2007 19:54:56 That may be a bit extreme but I would like to see something along these lines. For instance make the first war dec cheap (or as it is today). Make each additional war dec running simultaneously triple the cost (so it'd go something like 5 mil, 15 mil, 45 mil, 135 mil etc. and be cumulative). This way if you have a beef with a specific corp you can have at them relatively easy and do not make war only for wealthy corps but if you want to spam war decs it'll cost you. You could RP that CONCORD isn't going to fuss over a brush fire war but be more concerned at overall mayhem by a dozen wars. Do you mean each additional WarDec while you have one active, or each additional WarDec on the same Corp? (First dec = x, second dec = 2x, etc?). I'm not sure how many corps actually have that many wars going on, but its a thought.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:04:00 - [4] CCP has had years to make the war dec system anything other than the bully/griefer system it currently is, they haven't, and they won't... Building the homestead
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Do you mean each additional WarDec while you have one active, or each additional WarDec on the same Corp? (First dec = x, second dec = 2x, etc?). I'm not sure how many corps actually have that many wars going on, but its a thought. Yes they'd be cumulative. First costs X. Second costs 3x. Third costs 9x. Fourth costs 27x and so on. I do not remember if there is a cap on the numbe of war decs one corp can have active simultaneously so that may well finish my idea if there is. That said it seems some corps such as Privateers would like to war dec the universe so I don't know.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:09:00 - [6] wow. i mean. where do i start? erm well lets see, first of, NO. carebears in high sec should not get a free ride 'just because they dont want to pvp in a pvp game' wars ARE serious, people die on BOTH sides, dont ***** cos ur playstyle is different, we ALL have to deal with eachother, i hate the profiteering mining carebearing peeps that grind high sec for isk thus adding to inflation (if u dont know why then go get a book im in no mood to explain) fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:12:00 - [7] What's wrong with the current system anyway? A corp can only have three active decs. An alliance can dec a lot more (not sure there is a cap), but using the Privateer example, they pay about 50 bil a week or so for their wars (or so I've heard, the figure could probably use checking). The cumulative price for wars come into effect when several corps dec the same corp. For the first corp it cost 1x the price. The second corp pay 2x and the third 3x the cost. /Ki Haven't got one yet? Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Laythun wow. i mean. where do i start? erm well lets see, first of, NO. carebears in high sec should not get a free ride 'just because they dont want to pvp in a pvp game' wars ARE serious, people die on BOTH sides, dont ***** cos ur playstyle is different, we ALL have to deal with eachother, i hate the profiteering mining carebearing peeps that grind high sec for isk thus adding to inflation (if u dont know why then go get a book im in no mood to explain) fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end And how do you come to this conclusion? I've given the PvP'er access to the carebears in high sec, but its not a simple "lets go kill people in their safe spot at little or no cost to ourselves". This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, give the corps annoyed by scouting alts and suicide ships a chance to kill them, and the victim the satisfaction that they death was worth a billion ISK.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Laythun fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end No one is saying put an end to war decs. Although the OP's numbers may be a little over the top I see no reason why a corp war deccing someone should be made to think about it via game mechanics such as a pricey cost. It is one thing to have a beef with another corp and want to take them on. The vast majority of war decs are people just looking for a way to gank someone. My builder corp gets war decced on a regular basis. Always by corps of 2-6 people who have never met us or have any issue with us. We aren't even a cut out for an Alliance corp. These are just folks hoping we'll pay them to go away. As it happens we never do because our builders almost never leave station but still...clearly they are just cruising for some easy ISK or an easy gank and what they figure will be defenseless haulers/builders. There is no reason not to make the cost of war be enough to make a corp think twice and actually NEED a decent corp to do it and not just three guys looking to game the war deccing system.
Par'Gellen Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:19:00 - [10] Non-mutual war declarations should require a goal that must be met within a timeframe. If the goal is not met then the declaring corp should be fined heavily and/or set hostile by CONCORD. If the declaration is mutual then there should be no goal, time, or isk restrictions. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Laythun wow. i mean. where do i start? erm well lets see, first of, NO. carebears in high sec should not get a free ride 'just because they dont want to pvp in a pvp game' wars ARE serious, people die on BOTH sides, dont ***** cos ur playstyle is different, we ALL have to deal with eachother, i hate the profiteering mining carebearing peeps that grind high sec for isk thus adding to inflation (if u dont know why then go get a book im in no mood to explain) fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end And how do you come to this conclusion? I've given the PvP'er access to the carebears in high sec, but its not a simple "lets go kill people in their safe spot at little or no cost to ourselves". This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, give the corps annoyed by scouting alts and suicide ships a chance to kill them, and the victim the satisfaction that they death was worth a billion ISK. so. This will NOT combat griefers, all it will do is raise the level of suicide ganks. I dont beleive making people grind for ages to wardec someone should even be a feature of a pvp focused game. To be honest your whole idea just smacks of 'i want to be safe, i want people to have to grind for AGES to hurt me in my safe little haven' it BRINGS NOTHING TO THE GAME. but it takes away a lot. CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Laythun wow. i mean. where do i start? erm well lets see, first of, NO. carebears in high sec should not get a free ride 'just because they dont want to pvp in a pvp game' wars ARE serious, people die on BOTH sides, dont ***** cos ur playstyle is different, we ALL have to deal with eachother, i hate the profiteering mining carebearing peeps that grind high sec for isk thus adding to inflation (if u dont know why then go get a book im in no mood to explain) fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end And how do you come to this conclusion? I've given the PvP'er access to the carebears in high sec, but its not a simple "lets go kill people in their safe spot at little or no cost to ourselves". This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, give the corps annoyed by scouting alts and suicide ships a chance to kill them, and the victim the satisfaction that they death was worth a billion ISK. so. This will NOT combat griefers, all it will do is raise the level of suicide ganks. I dont beleive making people grind for ages to wardec someone should even be a feature of a pvp focused game. To be honest your whole idea just smacks of 'i want to be safe, i want people to have to grind for AGES to hurt me in my safe little haven' it BRINGS NOTHING TO THE GAME. but it takes away a lot. CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Par'Gellen Non-mutual war declarations should require a goal that must be met within a timeframe. If the goal is not met then the declaring corp should be fined heavily and/or set hostile by CONCORD. If the declaration is mutual then there should be no goal, time, or isk restrictions. I like it, it reduces the grief and doesn't castrate normal peoples fun.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Par'Gellen Non-mutual war declarations should require a goal that must be met within a timeframe. If the goal is not met then the declaring corp should be fined heavily and/or set hostile by CONCORD. If the declaration is mutual then there should be no goal, time, or isk restrictions. I like it, it reduces the grief and doesn't castrate normal peoples fun.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Laythun Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Laythun wow. i mean. where do i start? erm well lets see, first of, NO. carebears in high sec should not get a free ride 'just because they dont want to pvp in a pvp game' wars ARE serious, people die on BOTH sides, dont *** cos ur playstyle is different, we ALL have to deal with eachother, i hate the profiteering mining carebearing peeps that grind high sec for isk thus adding to inflation (if u dont know why then go get a book im in no mood to explain) fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end And how do you come to this conclusion? I've given the PvP'er access to the carebears in high sec, but its not a simple "lets go kill people in their safe spot at little or no cost to ourselves". This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, give the corps annoyed by scouting alts and suicide ships a chance to kill them, and the victim the satisfaction that they death was worth a billion ISK. so. This will NOT combat griefers, all it will do is raise the level of suicide ganks. I dont beleive making people grind for ages to wardec someone should even be a feature of a pvp focused game. To be honest your whole idea just smacks of 'i want to be safe, i want people to have to grind for AGES to hurt me in my safe little haven' it BRINGS NOTHING TO THE GAME. but it takes away a lot. This is why your teacher tells you to read the book through to the end in school, just reading the cover and the first two sentences than making your decision on its worth makes you look like a TooL**.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Laythun Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Laythun wow. i mean. where do i start? erm well lets see, first of, NO. carebears in high sec should not get a free ride 'just because they dont want to pvp in a pvp game' wars ARE serious, people die on BOTH sides, dont *** cos ur playstyle is different, we ALL have to deal with eachother, i hate the profiteering mining carebearing peeps that grind high sec for isk thus adding to inflation (if u dont know why then go get a book im in no mood to explain) fact is, your ideas are absured and are only to protect YOUR skin not to add anything dynamic to the game. /end And how do you come to this conclusion? I've given the PvP'er access to the carebears in high sec, but its not a simple "lets go kill people in their safe spot at little or no cost to ourselves". This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, give the corps annoyed by scouting alts and suicide ships a chance to kill them, and the victim the satisfaction that they death was worth a billion ISK. so. This will NOT combat griefers, all it will do is raise the level of suicide ganks. I dont beleive making people grind for ages to wardec someone should even be a feature of a pvp focused game. To be honest your whole idea just smacks of 'i want to be safe, i want people to have to grind for AGES to hurt me in my safe little haven' it BRINGS NOTHING TO THE GAME. but it takes away a lot. This is why your teacher tells you to read the book through to the end in school, just reading the cover and the first two sentences than making your decision on its worth makes you look like a TooL**.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:25:00 - [17] Edited by: Anatolius on 07/02/2007 20:21:45 Originally by: Humpalot There is no reason not to make the cost of war be enough to make a corp think twice and actually NEED a decent corp to do it and not just three guys looking to game the war deccing system. There's also no reason for CONCORD to not wave its magic donut and force all player-sold items to be placed on the market at a set price. (Nonsensical statements for the win.) Extortion is a valid part of EVE; pay up, roll with it, fight back, or be annoyed. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:25:00 - [18] Edited by: Anatolius on 07/02/2007 20:21:45 Originally by: Humpalot There is no reason not to make the cost of war be enough to make a corp think twice and actually NEED a decent corp to do it and not just three guys looking to game the war deccing system. There's also no reason for CONCORD to not wave its magic donut and force all player-sold items to be placed on the market at a set price. (Nonsensical statements for the win.) Extortion is a valid part of EVE; pay up, roll with it, fight back, or be annoyed. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Derovius Vaden This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, best way to combat griefers is to fight back - why? they don't like it if the target shoots back. if they like it when you fight back - they aren't griefers. so what's your point? ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Par'Gellen Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Par'Gellen Non-mutual war declarations should require a goal that must be met within a timeframe. If the goal is not met then the declaring corp should be fined heavily and/or set hostile by CONCORD. If the declaration is mutual then there should be no goal, time, or isk restrictions. I like it, it reduces the grief and doesn't castrate normal peoples fun. Exactly. The people that like to shoot each other can do so with no worries and the griefers can still do their thing but must be held responsible if they fail. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Derovius Vaden This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, best way to combat griefers is to fight back - why? they don't like it if the target shoots back. if they like it when you fight back - they aren't griefers. so what's your point? ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Par'Gellen Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Par'Gellen Non-mutual war declarations should require a goal that must be met within a timeframe. If the goal is not met then the declaring corp should be fined heavily and/or set hostile by CONCORD. If the declaration is mutual then there should be no goal, time, or isk restrictions. I like it, it reduces the grief and doesn't castrate normal peoples fun. Exactly. The people that like to shoot each other can do so with no worries and the griefers can still do their thing but must be held responsible if they fail. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:27:00 - [23] Step 1) look up eve_regions.pdf on eve-files.com Step 2) take a nice long look at every region Step 3) study the traphic on the eve map ingame Step 4) decide where you want to move and then do it Last Resort Step) become tennants to TCF/BoB/Goons/D2 or whoever is willing to let you fill their space and be rich and merry in 0.0 One of your Sigs contained inappropriate material for the eve-o forums, please email [email protected] for a explination. - hutch Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:27:00 - [24] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 07/02/2007 20:24:52 Step 1) look up eve_regions.pdf on eve-files.com Step 2) take a nice long look at every region Step 3) study the traphic on the eve map ingame Step 4) decide where you want to move and then do it Last Resort Step) become tennants to TCF/BoB/Goons/D2 or whoever is willing to let you fill their space and be rich and merry in 0.0 where its safe One of your Sigs contained inappropriate material for the eve-o forums, please email [email protected] for a explination. - hutch Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Derovius Vaden TooL. Wait, you're calling him a tool 'cause he doesn't agree with you? I don't agree with you. Am I a tool too? Fact is, he's right. This brings nothing to the game, but takes away a lot. Industrial corps ought to - and in most cases can - stand up for themselves and hire in a few PvPers in the corp. Doesn't take much to find a few people who are willing to run missions instead of mining, and when war comes, exchanges that extra cap-recharger for a scrambler. /Ki Haven't got one yet? Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Derovius Vaden This will combat griefers going after less-defended corps, best way to combat griefers is to fight back - why? they don't like it if the target shoots back. if they like it when you fight back - they aren't griefers. so what's your point? Quote of the day. And there are other ways to deal with Wardecs if you don't like fighting. Maybe they should be somewhat more expensive, I really don't know. But they should never be out of the reach of newer, smaller corps. They're not just a tool for "griefing" you know. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Laythun Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Laythun Intelligent post /end some guy talking loud absolute sense makes you look like a TooL. ok..ok ok so i dont agree with your little flight of fancy and you start calling me names? i read your post, i read it twice to make sure you were serious. either retort my arguements or just stop posting. cos i got a whole bag of flames and insults for you if you wanna play like that. So i let you have that one, back to the discussion, either counter argue or head on homwe builder boy CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Imaldris	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:39:00 - [28] best way to combat griefers is to fight back WEll, lets see. Last time my corp got war declared on they guys I had to face had 10 million + skill points, were in t2 cruisers and battleships and they popped guys in their velators, vexors, and brutix. Now I'm sure some of them fought back. Just like you say. Oh, and some of us ganged up and fought them. They liked that, gave em more targets.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Anatolius There's also no reason for CONCORD to not wave its magic donut and force all player-sold items to be placed on the market at a set price. (Nonsensical statements for the win.) Extortion is a valid part of EVE; pay up, roll with it, fight back, or be annoyed. There is a lot of reason for CONCORD to not do as you suggest. Because EVE is a game it lacks a lot of balancing mechanisms we see in RL. There is a reason Tahiti does not declare war on the United States but in EVE that is exactly what you are suggesting. Sure the US could go pummel Tahiti but doing so to the extortionists in EVE is near impossible. They just end the war, leave their corp and start a new one or hide in an NPC corp awhile. I know this because we did have a go at fighting these guys both in person and hiring mercs. Colossal waste of money and effort because they just slither past us. We cannot do the same however because our corp has a rep and standing and all the other stuff that just packing it iin and leaving is not a viable alternative. So, I maintain that there should be a mechanism in place to make people wishing to war dec think twice about their targets. If they still want to come after us fine...more power to them but it should be something more than a lark on their part.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 20:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Imaldris best way to combat griefers is to fight back WEll, lets see. Last time my corp got war declared on they guys I had to face had 10 million + skill points, were in t2 cruisers and battleships and they popped guys in their velators, vexors, and brutix. Now I'm sure some of them fought back. Just like you say. Oh, and some of us ganged up and fought them. They liked that, gave em more targets. what did you learn? is this not the point? CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö

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