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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
908
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Posted - 2016.03.10 02:00:19 -
[1] - Quote
Post all the really hard, or really strange samples you've seen so far... For Science!
Not sure whats going on in this one. Its like a couple of them exploded or something. This is your cells on drugs? http://i.imgur.com/dNKrZQ1.png
This one i got semi-right.. apparently it had 3 different classifications i needed to select, i only got the most obvious one. http://i.imgur.com/M9yq6FU.png
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2196
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Posted - 2016.03.10 02:04:46 -
[2] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Post all the really hard, or really strange samples you've seen so far... For Science!Not sure whats going on in this one. Its like a couple of them exploded or something. This is your cells on drugs? http://i.imgur.com/dNKrZQ1.pngThis one i got semi-right.. apparently it had 3 different classifications i needed to select, i only got the most obvious one. http://i.imgur.com/M9yq6FU.png
First one I would call nucleoli, I guess. I saw another one that was almost devoid of green, including inside nuclei, EXCEPT on a few cells where the nucleus was completely shattered, and the shattered parts of the nucleus were entirely green. Didn't screencap it, though. :\
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
908
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Posted - 2016.03.10 03:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
heres one that nobody seems sure of, look at the spread of those numbers! http://i.imgur.com/F2QMP1K.png
and heres one that doesnt seem to fit any description. Its probably not a Microtubule Organizing Center, since none of the red converges on it at all, and they are fairly solid dots, not diffuse. It might be a Centrosome but again, none of the red converges on it, and its kinda randomly placed in the red. It cant be an Aggresome, since its often not next to the nucleus, and is not diffuse. I marked it as 'abnormal sample' and chose Aggresome anyway since its the closest match i could find. http://i.imgur.com/R56dMoD.png
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
748
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Posted - 2016.03.10 04:06:55 -
[4] - Quote
Could you tell me in really simple words (goon level) what I am doing when I am comparing those things? Ideally using only these.
It's got something to do with protein, so, can we cure cancer by doing well? Or improve our diet? Grow some muscles? |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
107
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Posted - 2016.03.10 04:22:43 -
[5] - Quote
"you are helping to do science" simple explanation or "you are helping to identify what structures are present in pretty pictures of really small things" simple explanation?
Basically, you are looking at pictures of stained human cells to identify patterns of protein distribution in them. The aim is to map all of the proteins in the human body to help understand health and disease. |
Sp3ktr3
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.03.10 04:57:50 -
[6] - Quote
It's nice to see some people actually trying to do this project properly. Based on the choice distributions I've seen so far, people are either just randomly picking things or deliberately picking the one that is the most absolutely wrong. A community full of trolls may not have been the best place for something like this.
http://i.imgur.com/dNKrZQ1.png Looks like fribrillar-center nucleoli.
http://i.imgur.com/tpulJhH.png I would call that one a plasma membrane. |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
109
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Posted - 2016.03.10 05:17:28 -
[7] - Quote
Sp3ktr3 wrote:http://i.imgur.com/tpulJhH.png I would call that one a plasma membrane.
The ones that are Red Cross/Green Outline on the results like that (or titled "Foreign cell sample") are ones that have been classified by researchers at HPA - player's haven't come to that consensus.
Ones that have been classified by players show you the percentages in the results and are the unknown samples.
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Sp3ktr3
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.03.10 05:50:09 -
[8] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:Sp3ktr3 wrote:http://i.imgur.com/tpulJhH.png I would call that one a plasma membrane. The ones that are Red Cross/Green Outline on the results like that (or titled "Foreign cell sample") are ones that have been classified by researchers at HPA - player's haven't come to that consensus. Ones that have been classified by players show you the percentages in the results and are the unknown samples.
Yes true. But it's entirely possible for researchers to misclassify things, especially when they're trying to do a lot of them at once. My specialty isn't biology, but based on the examples they gave that one definitely does look more like a plasma membrane. |
Yume Mei
Khanid Dynamics
13
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Posted - 2016.03.10 07:00:30 -
[9] - Quote
Am I missing something here?
https://i.gyazo.com/bc19dab4632c6ab7a48d22522b6b8381.png |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2196
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Posted - 2016.03.10 07:16:18 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah, some of those are irksome.
This one is peeving me.
http://i.imgur.com/DVC5Tzr.png
Those are NOT vessicles.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
91
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Posted - 2016.03.10 07:24:21 -
[11] - Quote
The first few days, the results are going to be all over the map because we have a little learning of our own to do.
A signature :o
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Kali Starchaser
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.03.10 08:45:50 -
[12] - Quote
http://puu.sh/nBm3b/6e5306903d.jpg
I think I just got proof of a baby metroid.
Image ID #100089016 http://puu.sh/nBmgh/775724f363.jpg |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
80
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Posted - 2016.03.10 09:01:19 -
[13] - Quote
I tryed to do it but i have no idea what i am doing. I read all the toturial and instructions but i always miss the correct answer.
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Silvenin
Umbra Syndicate
3
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Posted - 2016.03.10 09:10:45 -
[14] - Quote
For some reason people seem to be afraid of the "unspecific" or "cell to cell variations" buttons like they bite or something.
If it's either of those, what you will see is votes literaly spread all across the board, quite evenly like they went with a totaly random selection because they could not identify...
Case and point.... here is a clear example of cell to cell variation https://i.gyazo.com/9f81eec9b881fd227c66b3878cb8b801.png |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3040
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Posted - 2016.03.10 11:24:56 -
[15] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Heres one i was almost certain i was right, but apparently not. The staining was clearly outside of the red marker, uniform though the whole thing with no difference in the blue marker area, and with pointy protrusions extending out, like the Plasma Membrane, but it turned out to be Cytoplasm? Cytoplasm description says it should be uniform inside the cell, except in the blue marker, and i dont see any of these protrusions in any of the cytoplasm examples. http://i.imgur.com/tpulJhH.png Remember these are 3D images, so there can be green under the blue, which isn't 'In' the blue but part of the cell literally underneath. |
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise EVIAN NATION
1
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Posted - 2016.03.10 11:28:37 -
[16] - Quote
it was fun until people started picking the same "mainstream" patterns for every image rather than risk belonging to the minority |
HPA Illuminator
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.03.10 14:03:37 -
[17] - Quote
What a fun thread!
Some feedback on your difficult images from a researchers pov:
#1: First image shows fibrillar centers. You can tell because the green staining will overlap with the holes in the blue one. It's FC rather than nucleoli, as there are clusters of spots in each nucleoli (FC is a specific pattern of nucleolar staining, with a specific biological function).
The cells that look like they've exploded are actually cells that are undergoing mitosis = one cell becoming two. So what you see is the DNA (blue) all densed up, so the microtubules (red) can help separate the DNA equally into the two daughter cells. Not so common to see this in images, and soooo pretty imo :)
Second image: Difficult one, agree that the nucleoli is the most prominent staining (it's just really important to toggle all colors on/off).
#3: Hehe you're really finding difficult ones! I would say it's nucleoli, but I'm not sure whether it's "just" nucleoli, or whether it's fibrillar center. I don't think it's nuclear bodies because the green seem to overlap with the holes in the blue. It's not speckles because there are too few and not evenly spread out.
Second image: Tricky one! The spots are really dense and oversaturated. It might be some sort of vesicle or cytoplasmic body, but it could also be an artifact. Typical image where there's no obvious right or wrong.
#6: Totally agree with you on both! There might be a cytoplasmic staining together with the plasma membrane (those two can be really difficult to tell apart). Are you getting errors for choosing PM?
#9: Can't say for sure with both the blue and green turned on, but if looks like nucleus rather than nucleoplasm to me.
#10: You're right, it's mitochondria. I can sort of understand why they could be mistaken for vesicles though... but that thread like pattern in a part of the cell really gives it away.
#12: Ooooh, those were some ugly cells. I can tell from just looking at the morphology and size that those belong to one of the first few 1000 cell preps we did (to give some perspective, we've done >150.000 now & we've improved a lot). It's a really difficult one to distinguish, but I think it might be intermediate filaments. It could also be "just" cytoplasm. My reason for thinking of intermediate filaments is that the green is a bit more dense next to the nucleus, and it's kinda like a cotton pad that you've ripped apart (at work we usually go like "uuuh so it's not golgi, cytoplasm or mitochondria... it must be int fil..." - we also think it's one of the more difficult ones!).
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Kali Starchaser
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.03.10 14:45:05 -
[18] - Quote
Here is a fun one I would LOVE feedback on, because its confusing the crap out of me if I should checkmark 'Abnormal sample' or not before I submit it.
http://puu.sh/nBzMy/25bba5ddad.jpg |
HPA Illuminator
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2016.03.10 14:54:46 -
[19] - Quote
Kali Starchaser wrote:Here is a fun one I would LOVE feedback on, because its confusing the crap out of me if I should checkmark 'Abnormal sample' or not before I submit it. http://puu.sh/nBzMy/25bba5ddad.jpg
Nice one! I wouldn't say it's abnormal. It's a cell to cell variation pattern of plasma membrane. Possibly some cytoplasm too (but likely not) - if the green staining is perfectly uniform and flat all over the cell when you toggle off red and blue I would say it's only PM. |
Kali Starchaser
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.03.10 15:02:11 -
[20] - Quote
HPA Illuminator wrote:Kali Starchaser wrote:Here is a fun one I would LOVE feedback on, because its confusing the crap out of me if I should checkmark 'Abnormal sample' or not before I submit it. http://puu.sh/nBzMy/25bba5ddad.jpg Nice one! I wouldn't say it's abnormal. It's a cell to cell variation pattern of plasma membrane. Possibly some cytoplasm too (but likely not) - if the green staining is perfectly uniform and flat all over the cell when you toggle off red and blue I would say it's only PM.
http://puu.sh/nBAGg/5e1f54ab69.jpg blue + green http://puu.sh/nBANk/f5a4f5bac8.jpg green only http://puu.sh/nBAKB/c67b6f994b.jpg red + blue
I kinda took a bunch of screenshots of it for my oddity folder. :) |
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HPA Illuminator
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.03.10 15:07:56 -
[21] - Quote
Kali Starchaser wrote:HPA Illuminator wrote:Kali Starchaser wrote:Here is a fun one I would LOVE feedback on, because its confusing the crap out of me if I should checkmark 'Abnormal sample' or not before I submit it. http://puu.sh/nBzMy/25bba5ddad.jpg Nice one! I wouldn't say it's abnormal. It's a cell to cell variation pattern of plasma membrane. Possibly some cytoplasm too (but likely not) - if the green staining is perfectly uniform and flat all over the cell when you toggle off red and blue I would say it's only PM. http://puu.sh/nBAGg/5e1f54ab69.jpg blue + green http://puu.sh/nBANk/f5a4f5bac8.jpg green only http://puu.sh/nBAKB/c67b6f994b.jpg red + blue I kinda took a bunch of screenshots of it for my oddity folder. :)
Hehe good thinking. Definitely a plasma membrane staining with no cytoplasm (at least none that can be seen with this optical sectioning of the cell). |
Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
911
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Posted - 2016.03.11 00:29:57 -
[22] - Quote
Im pretty sure you selected the correct one... its just gonna take time for people to get good at this, and for the system to weed out the bad ones =p
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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Helios Estraella
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.03.11 00:48:43 -
[23] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I went with Cytoplasm and not Vesicles because the staining in the red part was more blurry, not really defined dots
Im also curious what the difference between an "Abnormal sample" and "cell to cell variation"/"not identifiable" would be
If you look at all the cytoplasm examples the nuclei are pretty much void of green. In your situation the nucleus is filled with green so I wouldn't categorize this as cytoplasm. But I might as well be wrong. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3047
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Posted - 2016.03.11 01:57:19 -
[24] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/tkkrx53.png Try and work that one out for a laugh. |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
199
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Posted - 2016.03.11 02:06:27 -
[25] - Quote
I really hope a sub forum can be created in the Game Center section. The discovery threads are too god to loose in the clutter
Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE
Check out the Eve-Prosper for your market updates!
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2197
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Posted - 2016.03.11 02:38:41 -
[26] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:http://i.imgur.com/tkkrx53.png Try and work that one out for a laugh.
Could be mitochondria or a golgi apparatus? I think it's something on top of the nucleus (the red filaments running through the nucleus are a giveaway), not actually in it.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Annemariela Antonela
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
403
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Posted - 2016.03.11 03:31:36 -
[27] - Quote
I am an Advanced Analyst now.
I'm doing Science.
GÇ£Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.GÇ¥
GÇò Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
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Van Dracon
Tesla Aerospace Industries
3
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Posted - 2016.03.11 05:45:19 -
[28] - Quote
The new feature has caused many inconsistent results. Especialy with basic findings where you are 100% accurate but get a failed result. This has baffled me if I should continue wasting my time in project failure.
For starters the pictures should be increased in size instead of looking through a key hole.
Can we get 3d images if possible.
Why did I fail with one of the results. Please give back users more explanatory information to educate them more on failed results instead of guessing.
I like to help like many others though I believe the new feature needs to be expanded with more features. At this stage until I see improvement I won't be committed to it as I once thought. |
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HPA Illuminator
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2016.03.11 06:58:53 -
[29] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Im pretty sure you selected the correct one... its just gonna take time for people to get good at this, and for the system to weed out the bad ones =p was i was right in selecting the two categories for this one? Previously i was only selecting Nucleus on samples like this because i felt it was the prominent feature, but now as ive went though some of these and getting more comfortable, im thinking this should be both Nucleus and Cytoplasm? http://i.imgur.com/iYVeStn.pngI went with Cytoplasm and not Vesicles because the staining in the red part was more blurry, not really defined dots Im also curious what the difference between an "Abnormal sample" and "cell to cell variation"/"not identifiable" would be
Difficult one. It's really a borderline regarding the cytoplasm. Nucleus, absolutely correct. Cytoplasm... maybe (it's definitely not vesicles, you're correct there). It could just be "background" staining since it's so weak. So, I can understand why it has a 50% ratio :) Personally, I would go for only nucleus, but I have looked at *a lot* of images, so I'd actually say it's better to label everything you think matches.
Abnormal sample: you find a distinct pattern in the cells that doesn't match any of the categories. OR it's a broken image
Cell to cell variation: When you see e.g. a strong nucleus staining in a few cells, but some are really weak. Or some cells stain nucleus and some stain mitochondria (or whatever). When things differ visibly between cells.
Not identifiable: You can't distinguish any pattern, the green is just all over the place in the cell and everything is just the same shade of green. |
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HPA Illuminator
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2016.03.11 07:05:29 -
[30] - Quote
Helios Estraella wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:
I went with Cytoplasm and not Vesicles because the staining in the red part was more blurry, not really defined dots
Im also curious what the difference between an "Abnormal sample" and "cell to cell variation"/"not identifiable" would be
If you look at all the cytoplasm examples the nuclei are pretty much void of green. In your situation the nucleus is filled with green so I wouldn't categorize this as cytoplasm. But I might as well be wrong.
The examples are only showing 1 location, to make it easier to see what it should look like. However, most images (>60%) will have at least dual (some triple) locations, and nucleus/nucleoplasm + cytoplasm is the most common one by far.
In this one I wouldn't click cytoplasm though, but that's based on that it's so weak, that I don't believe it's a specific staining (but it's borderline, so as a gamer, I think you probably should :)) |
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