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Mirvnillith	Posted - 2003.12.29 10:55:00 - [31] Perhaps, but I guess/hope that devs go to Idea Lab first, General second when looking for player input (unless they post a request, e.g. TomB). --- Implement forum search already!!!
MeanMofo	Posted - 2003.12.29 18:52:00 - [32] Quote: Nah, too complicated for programmers. CCP would need to hire a story writer or someone with imagination and that does not fit them since they would probably loose control over this game:))) They want it this way so that they can manipulate your fate. CCP is already manipulating the game. From Great Games to nice graphics game! Dead Economy!
MeanMofo	Posted - 2003.12.29 18:54:00 - [33] Quote: There is hope... Check out X2 - The Threat. It comprises many of the elements that Synex speaks of. It is the second installment in it's series. The hope lies in the fact that the third installment is currently in development and slated to be a mmorpg. If Eve is still around when that comes out, it could prove to be a serious "threat" to Eve's existence. I'll Check it out.
Harisdrop	Posted - 2003.12.29 19:16:00 - [34] I agree with this thread that context is priority. Though there are many complex factors inplay. You have to realize that a game of this magnitude will take time to smooth out certain functions. I believe these things to come to pass in Eve. CCP wants the PC to be involved with politics and game play. I hear of solar sytem sec changes by pc's. I hear of stations and sentries making factions. Factions being linked to pc's corps. Soo yes things will happen. Why do we need NPC doing it I dont see that. I see less npc pirates at jumpgates. I believe there will be more faction sec than there are now. A constant sec change every night will make the game of Eve more complex. The tools are here they just have to unlock them. Prepare yourselves for change and play the way you want. This game is not a cookie cutter game. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Lance60266	Posted - 2003.12.29 21:05:00 - [35] Synex, Great Ideas!! This can be done and has been on smaller scales such as "Events" I was in a .6 system and was undocking in my bestower when much to my suprise I was targeted by 3 NPC Pirates one of which was a cruiser. They were only 50K from the station and began to fire at it. I redocked got my cruiser and engaged. I also made a general plea in local and got help from two other PC cruisers to "Defend" our home station. Its sad that this kind of thing has only happened once to me in the 6 months I have been playing. The above scenerio is real. This is the kinda thing that would really bring the game alive. "Its all fun and games til somebody gets Podded"
Rosbae	Posted - 2003.12.29 21:17:00 - [36] This is a great idea and is key to the games future. Would be great to see NPC pirates mining as well. Maybe give them a taste of there own medicine. Pirate haulers that are escorted by NPC fighters and frigates would be another interesting addition. That way I would not feel so bad nailing legitimate corps convoys. "No matter where you go there you are"
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.12.29 22:13:00 - [37] We need NPCs. Why? Well you tell me we're going to have players in every part of Eve's economy. We CANNOT affect how stations produce, for example. Intercept a hundred convoys in a system? Nothing...no wrecks...no market effect...no nothing. Sell pirate stations ore? I don't see additional NPCs popping up. NPCs. They spawn and spawn and spawn. HELLO THERE, they are not ORE, they are supposed to be the same ingame as people. If they were supplied ships by stations, setup bases in systems (hell, make them deepspace so you have to MWD your way across deepspace and BM them, real hideouts!), Eve would be a lot more realistic. We cannot REMOVE NPCs. We NEED NPCs. So make the NPCs work like we do, make it a real world, not just "X NPCs spawn here, Y ore is bought here every Z hours". _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Lance60266	Posted - 2003.12.30 14:43:00 - [38] Agreed, More NPC activity is needed at least until the amount of real players logged on increase. if there were 10 to 15 thousand people logged on at once then yes I would say remove the NPC presence all together but that is unlikely to happen anytime soon, so in the meantime CCP would be smart to give the loyal players something to interact with. "Its all fun and games til somebody gets Podded"
Atar	Posted - 2003.12.30 18:12:00 - [39] HEY CCP ARE YOU LISTENING? This is what EVE needs!
Lance60266	Posted - 2003.12.30 20:56:00 - [40] The only comment I have seen from anybody related to authority was for Polaris to move it from the general discussion to here. I really hope that A dev reads this, I would love to see the ideas get taken seriously or at the very least acknowledged. "Its all fun and games til somebody gets Podded"
Synex	Posted - 2003.12.30 21:55:00 - [41] Hey peeps First off, thanks for keeping this thread alive! It died off pretty quick after posting, but seems to have a second life all of a sudden... I see a lot of posts/flames on the boards about creating your own content... That's great and I'm all for that idea. Playing an RPG (note playing NOT leveling) is all about making your own story line, getting involved with other players etc... However, you need a cohesive backdrop on which to 'paint' the picture of your character, and at the moment it's lacking. If playing these games was all about creating your own content, you might as well start on IRC channel and 'pretend' your flying in space etc. The need for NPCs in MMORPG's will not die out until there is a huge player base online all the time. Even a grade-A busy system like Luminaire or Yulai still seems devoid of players, maybe you get to see 4/5 at a gate or station but it's rare to see any more unless you get involved in a fleet battle. NPCs are all part of the backdrop in which you play the game. They are also an effective way to ensure that the backdrop/story line get's played out in-game. So how could NPCs make the game more real? Fleet battles : Large fleet battles should leave a lot of salvagable debris around... NPC Salvage corps should pitch up and start grabbing minerals, pirates should pitch up to attack these operations, CONCORD should pitch up to protect them. Trade Routes : On big trade routes we should see massive convoys headed from one station to another, big convoys at gates. They don't actually have to MOVE anything, it just adds a layer of realism. Mining : Already mentioned, I'd like to see mining operations by NPC corps. My aim for writing a Dynamic Story System back in TEP was not to replace the job of story writers etc. but to add a flow of content between the 'HISTORY' events... The HISTORY events (as we called them) we're pre-scripted, one-off specific events, usually on a massive scale. (Such as the introduction of the third race). The DSS was there to generate missions and other 'small' content to keep the game running along... All of the randomly generated DSS missions etc. counted towards something. I think i've kind of lost my point somewhere amoungst writing this post... So please post your comments and I'll see if I can get my brain back on topic! Synex EVEdb Code Monkey
Synex	Posted - 2003.12.30 22:17:00 - [42] Quote: Synex, you say you had this working in a game? Was wondering if you could give CCP some basic headers to get started on? (I know it's their job, but a push-start can't hurt ) It's a major, revolutionary idea...a shame no dev has ever seen it that way . I had a look but can't find the code for it anywhere... The idea was fairly basic tho. The system ran on various different levels, the first being the empire-management level. This basically ran a glorified version of 'Risk'. The game started and a pre-assigned set of systems was given to each empire. These ensured that each empire had a strong base of 4 Areas (Research, Production, Miltary - Attack, Military - Defense). Each of these systems had 4 values - one for each area. Some systems had a high Research value and low Production Value etc. Each empire 'home' system had max values for each area. Then, another set of systems was randomly allocated to each empire which would give them different advantages. Therefore, Empire A might have high Research points, while Empire B has high Military-Attack points etc. Certain checks where run to ensure that a stalemate situation wasn't generated from game-start (Eg All empires with high Military Defense values and low military attack vals) Then the system ran through and gave each empire a 'personality' based on the strengths of the empire based upon the systems allocated to it. This meant that a 'history' was sort of produced - Empires with lots of research systems would have obviously got these because of a desire to do lots of researching, so they shouldn't start to suddenly start kicking ass everywhere. Then, a 'value' was assigned to each system based upon personality of the empire (Miltary - Attack empires would love high Mil-Attack systems, tho not too bothered about Farming systems etc.) - this decided how important each system was to an empire and how vigorously they would defend it. With all this set up pre-game, the game started. Each game 'month' each empire would decide what to 'Do'. This was again split down into Attack, movement, R&D and a variety of other phases. Each of these 'Actions' was again split into several other phases. For example: In the previous month system A (owned by empire A) had been viciously attacked by Empire B. Because of it's high value to Empire A, Empire A had stationed a large defense force there but it had nearly been destroyed. Because of this Empire A had been PRODUCING another large defense fleet (because of the high defense characteristic of Empire A) and so it'll move that defense fleet to System A. Empire B (Militaristic) is now vastly outnumbered in this system and so now attacks 3 other systems that aren't well defended because of the large concentration of defense in system A. This system, tho sounding complicated is fairly simple. It all works on numbers, values allocated to different variables etc. But it leads to all sorts of possibilities. I ran hundreds of different scenarios and most came out with startling different results. Example : Empire A (Many research systems, low productivity, high military defense). Empire B (Few research systems, high productivity, high military attack). Straight away Empire B went after A and took out half of it's systems. A had highly defended it's research systems and research surged ahead. Meanwhile, B was producing huge numbers of military vehicles. A produced few ships but hi-tech ones. B kept attacking A and it was a fairly equal standing until B threw everything it had at A and took it's #1 research system. B started research and (although was still nowhere near A's research level) the added advantage of marginally better weapons that before meant that B's huge productivity base overwhelmed Empire A and they died out. This was an extreme example, but, running and much faster than real time would have meant that scenario would have taken 10 years game time (About 36 hours play time at full fast-forward speed). After that scenario was run, I changed it so one empire would never completely kill another (a random event would be generated to kill off the power of the stronger faction IE Meteor storm killing off fleet). There were many other things I had planned but never added to the mix... An huge Tech Tree, 'Leader' characters that could swing the outcome of a battle (and it'd be cool to see there name in 'e-paper' and produce a cohesive storyline) and loads of other stuff... This is the sort of thing I'd expect from a MMORPG... It would give a day to day storyline, but still allow large player-based events like the Championship etc... Am I really asking too much? If I could make something like that... why can't CCP? Synex EveDB Code Monkey
Hiigara Soban	Posted - 2003.12.31 01:27:00 - [43] Quote: one of the initial attractions of Eve for many 'outsiders' are the fantastic (potw) story lines. Newcomers are soon disappointed as they realise the stories represent a shallow non-interactive element of Eve I totally agree. I love stories, although i don't like reading very much (strange i know). And one of the main things that caught my eye first of all about EVE was the POTW articles and the short stories. This was way back before beta, and I immediatly signed up for beta, thinking that EVE was a game that actually had such stories and articles actually happening within the game. Well, i got into beta a couple monthes before the game was released, and I was very disapointed in what I saw... I soon realized that the POTW and the stories were nothing but short fiction passages intertaining those who were not able to play the game yet. After i was accepted into beta, i stopped reading them, and haven't read one since. I decided not to buy EVE, but when i had heard that the game was changing so much, back in November i decided to get it, hoping that maybe it had gotten better. When in general the game had improved in many areas, it still lacked the story, which I think could have made this game a whole lot more popular than it is. Id rather play a script game thats got a constant story than to play this. Although i do not intend on quiting EVE, i agree that it would be a great idea to have the DSS idea added. Just think about how much more fun the game would be if there was a war between at least 2 of the factions, and that each player was part of one big story who an endless amount of possibilities, rather than the little single person story of advancing your ships and characters... id fall asleep reading that. ____________________________________________________________________ Need moons scanned for a corporation Starbase? Convo or eve-mail me in-game for price details. I suply probes.
Veln	Posted - 2003.12.31 14:44:00 - [44] I agree. Just more realistic NPC traffic for non-pvp (or non griefing) pirates would be AWESOME. The pirate base concept is cool as well. Even hiring NPC bounty hunters would rule. But as it stands everything said so far I don't disagree with. EVE, while having a nice back story, seems entirely devoid of life.
Funky Monkey	Posted - 2003.12.31 15:53:00 - [45] Bloody Brilliant.... even if it was implemented in a limited area.. wow...
Lance60266	Posted - 2003.12.31 16:21:00 - [46] The more things to do in this world of eve the longer people will pay there 12.95 a month. It really is that simple. I am still playing because I have not gotten bored yet. I still have things left to conquer and do. More NPC activity would increase the list of things I wanna acomplish before I stop playing. If the mix is right I could have things left to do for years. If the mix is wrong then I may only have days left. CCP, you have a great game, please keep making it better. "Its all fun and games til somebody gets Podded"
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.12.31 22:50:00 - [47] NPCs do this, you got unlimited game content, because killing things actually affects the environment. That would give you time to put in everything else you wanted CCP. I'm sure you could sort out more sophisticated controls, eg Caldari don't attack Amarr, don't attack Minmatar much, CONCORD attempts to intervene, blah blah blah, etc...even if the empires didn't go to war but this was applied for pirates, CONCORD and convoys, it'd be awesome and keep people around for a long time. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Missing Person	Posted - 2004.01.01 00:10:00 - [48] I agree.. it would feal more alive... maybe i would not be so much missing then
Michel Licari	Posted - 2004.01.01 18:59:00 - [49] Extremely well-thought out. Have you tried finding out if others had a copy of your code? 'To fight when others fold, pursue while others retreat. conquer while others quit and make right when all else is wrong'
Xhanserbal	Posted - 2004.01.02 12:42:00 - [50] come on devs make a comment, give us some hope.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.01.02 13:03:00 - [51] Great idea
Lance60266	Posted - 2004.01.02 14:40:00 - [52] Another Idea for NPC involment would be to allow as an agent Mission maybe to Protect a Convoy ship from point A to point B. there could be a NPC pirates that could attack and you would need to defend or loose the mission. This is just another example of how NPC's could really spice the game. Please keep this thread alive until we get an answer. "Its all fun and games til somebody gets Podded"
Wild Rho	Posted - 2004.01.02 20:15:00 - [53] There is one factor people have forgotton though. Although the NPC overall responses in Empire wars can be easily calculated you have to account for the players as well. Most corporations are multiracial and therefore a war may cause NPCs in the local area to start killing off people. Lets face it, at war time what chance does a minmatar have in amarr space (or vice versa). One cool option would be to allow players to enlist into the military corps of their race to help the war effort. In here they may be assigned missions that help effect the outcome of battles etc. Anyway, like I saidm the biggest hurdle would probably how to handle the player side of this. Faction ratings would probably come in here but who knows. Persoanlly I think it would be great to see more single racial communities like Pie and Oracle growing in the empire spaces simply to create a greater sense of racial identity for the players. Right now the whole race issue is more a case of how you prefer to look than anything else. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Lance60266	Posted - 2004.01.02 21:45:00 - [54] Good Point Rho, Your right the logic of this would be tough to work out in a game. if you are like me, when I started I was not sure which race to pick. I rolled the dice and just picked a race to start with. Its only later in the game that you start to align yourself with a particular race, the probelm then is that you have too much invested in your character to change. Having the ability to Align yourself with a particular cause would be important for the NPC actions to work correctly. Ex. I am Caldari by birth but want to align with the minmatar etc. "Its all fun and games til somebody gets Podded"
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2004.01.03 03:37:00 - [55] Erm, Rho... The entire point is it does interact with the players. You camp system A killing off security forces and its military value will weaken. You interrupt a major battle and send one side packing and you have helped one side defeat another. You camp a station destroying its inbound convoys, then the station gradually runs out of items to sell because it's not getting resupplied. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Synex	Posted - 2004.01.03 09:49:00 - [56] Quote: Erm, Rho... The entire point is it does interact with the players. You camp system A killing off security forces and its military value will weaken. You interrupt a major battle and send one side packing and you have helped one side defeat another. You camp a station destroying its inbound convoys, then the station gradually runs out of items to sell because it's not getting resupplied. Exactly... the system is all about cause and effect, and simulating the game world in enough detail to make it 'real'...
Darsk'hul	Posted - 2004.01.03 13:14:00 - [57] I must admit that this thread deserved to be stickyied. Good job Synex. You've got my entire votes. __________ No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc. Contact for this corp is now Yilo. Freelancer at Lost Order
Galea Wildfang	Posted - 2004.01.03 17:59:00 - [58] That's actually the best idea I've read on that board so far. Add to that player driven politics and you got a world above and beyond everything. Don't make EVE just a game like the others, where you kill stuff, get something to kill larger stuff, rinse and repeat. That's not what we're looking forward to. We want to play a role in the big picture, even though it will most likely just a tiny role, but we'll feel like making a difference. 'Life on Earth might be expensive, but it does include an anual free trip around the sun'
Synex	Posted - 2004.01.03 20:00:00 - [59] Thanks for all the support peeps! Still no sniff of a dev/gm around?!?!? I was thinking about starting up the Elite Project again... I'll set up some forums for it to gather ideas etc... If you have any programming knowledge / graphics ability or would just be interested in getting involved, email my at [email protected] Synex Code Monkey
Hasek	Posted - 2004.01.04 04:07:00 - [60] i have to say id pay $20 a month per acct for a game with this in it my wife be damned... its stuff like this that i quit UO and came to EvE im caldari because of the storyline... i want to fight gallente but if i do concord splats me.... plz devs read this..... CONCORD MUST DIE!

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