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Topaz Skydiver	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:13:00 - [31] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 12/02/2007 10:10:26 Originally by: Sly Fang Originally by: Samirol lame attempty to scam Have you even read the details? This is plain logic/math, don't need to read the details. The tree doesn't generate isk, it only redistributes isk from the new players that joined in the bottom level to the higher levels. Since the tree grows exponentially, it takes only a few levels and it will be impossible for almost everyone in the bottom level to recruit new people, otherwise the subscriber numbers would have to raise at the same rate, which is impossible. The bottom level will be in dept at that point. You can make the rules as weird as you want, if someone profits, another one suffers, because the tree doesn't magically produce isk, just shifts it from one player to another.
Sly Fang The Eve Pyramid Game	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 12/02/2007 10:10:26 Originally by: Sly Fang Originally by: Samirol lame attempty to scam Have you even read the details? This is plain logic/math, don't need to read the details. The tree doesn't generate isk, it only redistributes isk from the new players that joined in the bottom level to the higher levels. Since the tree grows exponentially, it takes only a few levels and it will be impossible for almost everyone in the bottom level to recruit new people, otherwise the subscriber numbers would have to raise at the same rate, which is impossible. The bottom level will be in dept at that point. You can make the rules as weird as you want, if someone profits, another one suffers, because the tree doesn't magically produce isk, just shifts it from one player to another. This just proves you havent read the details. What happends to the people that join up without a reference person? they will get assigned to the holes in the tree, that way the tree will grow without people constantly reqruiting. This is the main factor you're missing out in your argument
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:23:00 - [33] I cant be assed to post here. Damnit
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:24:00 - [34] There is a reason pyramid schemes are forbidden by law and a punishable offense in any self-respecting country.... theyre a dumb, retarded, lame, idiotic and stupifendous idea to get a few people to make money while the rest loses out. Anyone arguing in favour of them is either not operating at 100% brain capacity or just generally lame for wanting to make money over the backs of others. Now someone, plx, close this thread. Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety)
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:24:00 - [35] This scheme is worldwidly regarded as a scam and forbidden by law for a reason. You may try to introduce it to EVE, but it is as profitable for the majority of the participants as a standard IPO scam: Few get lots, many loose everything. Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Sly Fang The Eve Pyramid Game	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Sokratesz There is a reason pyramid schemes are forbidden by law and a punishable offense in any self-respecting country.... theyre a dumb, retarded, lame, idiotic and stupifendous idea to get a few people to make money while the rest loses out. Anyone arguing in favour of them is either not operating at 100% brain capacity or just generally lame for wanting to make money over the backs of others. Now someone, plx, close this thread. Wow, you sure got it right, think you're up for a degree. ffs, this is a game not real life, and btw, its still not a scam
Bided Khutt	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:39:00 - [37] To be fair this isn't actually a pyramid scheme. It's an 8-ball scheme. 88% of people loose out in a scheme of this nature usually
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Sly Fang Wow, you sure got it right, think you're up for a degree. ffs, this is a game not real life, and btw, its still not a scam Yeah, and this is not a pipe. You lose eve, Mister. Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety)
Sly Fang The Eve Pyramid Game	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Bided Khutt To be fair this isn't actually a pyramid scheme. It's an 8-ball scheme. 88% of people loose out in a scheme of this nature usually Instead of concluding this with the frase "usually", give some accurate math instead. And if you even bother looking up on http://www.eve-pyramid.com you'll see that the worst case is far from this. Do the math guys!
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:50:00 - [40] Pyramid scheme originators have one particular quality: They are completely unperturbed by any criticism, and very insistent in pronouncing their point of view. You know, they stay at the top of the Pyramid, and being there, they will get nearly all the money some 90% of all other participants loose. That is worth some fighting and effort, after all... Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:53:00 - [41] Originally by: Sly Fang Originally by: Bided Khutt To be fair this isn't actually a pyramid scheme. It's an 8-ball scheme. 88% of people loose out in a scheme of this nature usually Instead of concluding this with the frase "usually", give some accurate math instead. And if you even bother looking up on http://www.eve-pyramid.com you'll see that the worst case is far from this. Do the math guys! I love the way you continuesly try to pursuade people (and yourself) that this is not a scam. How can it not be a scam? As others pointed out, your magical money-making tree does NOT generate any income. What it does is take the isk from the lower level, and give it to the ones at the higher level (i.e you). The people at the bottom levels will always lose their investment, and the people in the middle might get their money back. The only people to actually gain any money is you, and the people on the upper couple of levels. Tbh, I'm really surprised that you took the time to set all this up, making web-pages etc, and then actually calling your scam 'The Eve Pyramid Game.' Here's a hint for you, if you the name you choose is widely regarded as being scam-name, you might not want it for your own scam. Resistance is Fertile.
Sly Fang The Eve Pyramid Game	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Pyramid scheme originators have one particular quality: They are completely unperturbed by any criticism, and very insistent in pronouncing their point of view. You know, they stay at the top of the Pyramid, and being there, they will get nearly all the money some 90% of all other participants loose. That is worth some fighting and effort, after all... Juwi Kotch FOR GODS SAKE, i dont know how many times i'll say this, read the damn details guys. Read the worst- cases before spewing out unproven conclusions. Your conclusion is based on what? hearsay? definately not on any form of mathematical foundation. You generalize this system too much. Look up on the model, check and double check the worst cases and see if it adds up, and then, conclude your argument.
Major Kruskal	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:00:00 - [43] Guys! :) I dont know if you say my prev submissions, but the pyramid is actually growin as we speak.. So for the people accusing Sly for scamming, I'm actually making some money on it allready =) The morale on the other hand is.. yeah.. :D However, I dont know any other way of proving it than this screenshot: Wallet
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Major Kruskal Guys! :) I dont know if you say my prev submissions, but the pyramid is actually growin as we speak.. So for the people accusing Sly for scamming, I'm actually making some money on it allready =) The morale on the other hand is.. yeah.. :D However, I dont know any other way of proving it than this screenshot: Wallet Of course you're making money. You're near the top of the pyramid. Dulce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Major Kruskal Guys! :) I dont know if you say my prev submissions, but the pyramid is actually growin as we speak.. So for the people accusing Sly for scamming, I'm actually making some money on it allready =) The morale on the other hand is.. yeah.. :D However, I dont know any other way of proving it than this screenshot: Wallet Of course you're making money. You're near the top of the pyramid. It¦s an alt to make the scam more credible... ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Kyrall Caldari Crazy 88's O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:07:00 - [46] You keep talking about your supposed "worst case scenario", when in fact the best case scenario is that the money gets spread out evenly (including those at the top putting money back in - LOL) and everyone ends up with what they started. Can someone please lock this thread before some poor sucker loses money to this idiot... - Take another step back until you find you've walked away
Sly Fang The Eve Pyramid Game	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:12:00 - [47] Originally by: Kyrall You keep talking about your supposed "worst case scenario", when in fact the best case scenario is that the money gets spread out evenly (including those at the top putting money back in - LOL) and everyone ends up with what they started. Can someone please lock this thread before some poor sucker loses money to this idiot... Sad that you've misunderstood the theory behind it. It doesn't get "spread" out evenly, you benefit from your own tree, mark my words, your own tree, the people above you will benefit from you and your tree since you are part of their tree. The people that joins up will have to work to grow their own tree so that you'll benefit from your members. There is no other easy way to put it, but to say that the money is spread out evenly is a flawed argument
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:16:00 - [48] I'm sure this can be manipulated in some way due to the fact that one RL person can be multiple people in game - not sure how though ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Maze La'Zie Caldari Technology La'Zie	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:23:00 - [49] If you take part in a pyramid scheme, please be aware of the following: If you join before a certain point, you will gain money. If you join after a certain point, you will lose money. This point is determined by the 'shape' of the pyramid, the number of people who join, and the duration of the scheme. This scheme is limited by the number of players in Eve, and the rate at which they join. In my opinion, only a few people will join the scheme (given the number of warnings) therefore only a few people will make money. It's up to you whether to join or not, but don't complain when you lose money. ___________________ Chief Scientific Officer Technology La'Zie Author of The End
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Sly Fang Originally by: Kyrall You keep talking about your supposed "worst case scenario", when in fact the best case scenario is that the money gets spread out evenly (including those at the top putting money back in - LOL) and everyone ends up with what they started. Can someone please lock this thread before some poor sucker loses money to this idiot... Sad that you've misunderstood the theory behind it. It doesn't get "spread" out evenly, you benefit from your own tree, mark my words, your own tree, the people above you will benefit from you and your tree since you are part of their tree. The people that joins up will have to work to grow their own tree so that you'll benefit from your members. There is no other easy way to put it, but to say that the money is spread out evenly is a flawed argument Lets do the maths as you say. Lets say each person recruits 4 people independent of each other Layer 1 = 1 Layer 2 = 4 Layer 3 = 64 Layer 4 = 256 Layer 5 = 1024 Layer 6 = 4096 Layer 7 = 16,834 Layer 8 = 65,536 Layer 9 = 262,144 Layer 10 = 1,048,576 Layer 11 = Roughly 4mil Layer 12 = Roughly 16mil Layer 13 = Roughly 64mil Layer 14 = Roughly 256mil Layer 15 = Roughly 1 Bil Layer 16 = Roughly 4 Bil Layer 17 = Roughly 16 Bil So even if you replace people in everyones tree - At 17 layers, thats 16 billion+ alts that need to transfer you isk from that layer alone, with those added above on top.. Now lets say every ones of these people has exactly 50mil in their wallets - How do the guys in the bottom layer make isk? Since no isk is created, this means that the people in layer 17 needs to find approx 64billion accounts to fund them. --
Ralus eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:39:00 - [51] Edited by: Ralus on 12/02/2007 11:38:58 I thought pyramid schemes were one of the few scams that the GM's have banned... could be wrong though. EDIT: from the tos Quote: You may not advertise, employ, market, or promote any form of solicitation û including pyramid schemes and chain letters û in the EVE Online game world or on the website. although I think that applies to out game scams being advertised on the forums not in game ones.
Allen Deckard Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:41:00 - [52] it IS a scam whats so hard to figure out? And yes I know what a pyramid scam is I know how it works, this is that, and it's a scam. The guy at the top gets rich. The guy at the bottom foots the bill. it's not rocket science. Your not producing anything. Your not "making" isk. Your simply collecting "or trying to collect. isk from other players. Why not just sit in local and beg for isk in jita. same result. Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free
Sly Fang The Eve Pyramid Game	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Sly Fang Originally by: Kyrall You keep talking about your supposed "worst case scenario", when in fact the best case scenario is that the money gets spread out evenly (including those at the top putting money back in - LOL) and everyone ends up with what they started. Can someone please lock this thread before some poor sucker loses money to this idiot... Sad that you've misunderstood the theory behind it. It doesn't get "spread" out evenly, you benefit from your own tree, mark my words, your own tree, the people above you will benefit from you and your tree since you are part of their tree. The people that joins up will have to work to grow their own tree so that you'll benefit from your members. There is no other easy way to put it, but to say that the money is spread out evenly is a flawed argument Lets do the maths as you say. Lets say each person recruits 4 people independent of each other Layer 1 = 1 Layer 2 = 4 Layer 3 = 64 Layer 4 = 256 Layer 5 = 1024 Layer 6 = 4096 Layer 7 = 16,834 Layer 8 = 65,536 Layer 9 = 262,144 Layer 10 = 1,048,576 Layer 11 = Roughly 4mil Layer 12 = Roughly 16mil Layer 13 = Roughly 64mil Layer 14 = Roughly 256mil Layer 15 = Roughly 1 Bil Layer 16 = Roughly 4 Bil Layer 17 = Roughly 16 Bil So even if you replace people in everyones tree - At 17 layers, thats 16 billion+ alts that need to transfer you isk from that layer alone, with those added above on top.. Now lets say every ones of these people has exactly 50mil in their wallets - How do the guys in the bottom layer make isk? Since no isk is created, this means that the people in layer 17 needs to find approx 64billion accounts to fund them. Just to correct your math, you'll only have 2 children, not 4. That will further lengthen the theoritical lifespan of the pyramid. it's pretty much spot on mate, good work. This is a perfectly best case scenario, but yet again, the probability for this to happen is way too slim. In your case CCP would have to find up some pretty fansy stuff to be able to sport the amount of accounts :) or on the other side, it would mean the end of the pyramid. However during our research through simulation of the pyramid, we found out that the number of people in the pyramid will not approach the optimal number, and that way it'll be more "unbalanced", what does that mean, it'll mean that more people get the chance to reqruit new members, and earn isk compared to your perfectly best case scenario.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:58:00 - [54] And he just keeps on posting useless stuff trying to promote himself and agreeing with people that say it'd take a billion users and then still trying to turn that into a positive thing...wtf is wrong with some people? Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:00:00 - [55] But is it really a scam? If you get in early enough you'll get your money, for the informed investor it's more of a risk/reward thing than a scam, as there is money to be made if you're fast enough. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
space fox Induseng Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:03:00 - [56] IBTL
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:05:00 - [57] Originally by: Sly Fang Just to correct your math, you'll only have 2 children, not 4. That will further lengthen the theoritical lifespan of the pyramid. it's pretty much spot on mate, good work. This is a perfectly best case scenario, but yet again, the probability for this to happen is way too slim. In your case CCP would have to find up some pretty fansy stuff to be able to sport the amount of accounts :) or on the other side, it would mean the end of the pyramid. However during our research through simulation of the pyramid, we found out that the number of people in the pyramid will not approach the optimal number, and that way it'll be more "unbalanced", what does that mean, it'll mean that more people get the chance to reqruit new members, and earn isk compared to your perfectly best case scenario. So in other words, you admit that this pyramid is unbalaced - I.E Joining it is the same as losing your isk for the majority of its members. I.E The 16 billion people on layer 17 will lose out unless they somehow find a way to get 64 billion people to pay up? I have a better idea. Send all your isk directly to me, and insted of a unbalaced pyramid, I will create a balaced one, where Nobody looses out! Yep - Send me your isk and I will ensure that it gets spend on another Gist X Fitted Navy raven, which we can all use on a timeshare basis! --
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:14:00 - [58] I can't see the forest for the trees tbh ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
IndIIy Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:14:00 - [59] dude this is bad pyramid its only a scame ccp should kick your ass for scaming i had rl friends that lost all there money for being stupid and geting involved in a game like this u are flged as a scamer for me and i'll kos u whereve u are dam bastards man i never though i'll say this but ge a job in eve and start makeing isk that way do miissions ro lab poss or something a pyrate has more honor than u sorry for the bad english but i had to say that
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Sly Fang Originally by: Sokratesz And he just keeps on posting useless stuff trying to promote himself and agreeing with people that say it'd take a billion users and then still trying to turn that into a positive thing...wtf is wrong with some people? Thats actually the opposite of what i said though. I was trying to point out that the billion people scenario is flawed. Say you have 6 people under you, and you'll already be going with profit. Your tree will be pretty much balanced the first 2 - 3 levels, then it'll get a tiny bit more unbalanced. By this time you're way beyond your original investment. Check the models, and you'll realize you're wrong, and btw, im perfectly fine Yes, in other words, the guys at the top get the isk and everyone else has to find more members or lose out. The probem is that once the ~~sucker~~ members has lost their isk, they wont find others to fill the gaps as it is mathamatically impossible for everyone to win. And why send you isk? I am offering everyone a chance at timesharing a Gist-X Fitted Navy Raven - Send me 100mil isk each, and you guys get a guarenteed timeshare of it. Oh And before you send this guy isk - DONT - Just setup your own pyramid and recruit members yourself. You dont need to send isk to join a pyramid - since it is your problem anyway to find members. Just do it youself. --

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