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Wibiq
Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2007.02.12 22:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Azrael Bierce What would actually be interesting is tying the cost of the wardec to the skillpoints of the target. Wardec some fresh corp of noobs and it'll cost you more. Wardec an alliance full of 3 year old characters and the cost is near 0. Sort of Concord saying "Why do those guys need protection anyway?"
That's actually a pretty interesting idea, but you still couldn't put too high of a price on it or it would discourage PVP. Another possibility could be associating the cost of the war dec to the difference between the agressor and the target. The bigger the gap the bigger the cost but two new corps could still wage war affordably.
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Hypatia Iola
Caldari Warhounds
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Posted - 2007.02.12 23:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO I have a character with 34m SP, but if I put him in a tempest with 250mm light artilleries, a shield tank and magnetic stabilizers in the lows I'm gonna suck pretty big balls.
In otherwords, SP means nothing in combat and should not determine the price of a war. Its about isk.
no, in other words, skill points applied to the wrong thing mean jack ****, if you USE those skills(I.E. set up an armor tank if that's your thing or whatever) you'll wn the n00b who doesn't have any skills at all 9.9 times out of 10, and for that .1 time you were AFK and he ganked you.
now i don't think the skill system should be changed, i think those who played longer have put more in and so deserve more, but i get sick of these "Skills don't matter" posts because it's just false. Skills are the basis for everything you do in the game, and thus they are an absolute necessity for you to do anything meaningful. That's not to say that a new player can't have fun and kill slightly more experienced players, but my 1.7 mil SP character is going to get OMGWTFPWNED by a 17 mil SP character because the 17 mil char will have more t2 stuff, a t2 ship, faction items, and a small attack poodle as a mascot. I might put up a good fight, but at the end of the day, he wins. Gangs help a lot, but they don't mean you're guaranteed to even make an impact even with good planning.
Pilot skill is a must, but really pilot skill is just knowing how to apply the character's skills. The more skilled your character is, the more options you have to beat up someone, the more likely you are to do so.
the Ben has spoken.
ah the forums are fantastic and full of love
Originally by: Zions Child its not worth it. karn, you have VERY little social skill and regard for basic human beings. People like you, are what make the world a |
TwIsTeDSoLdIeR
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Posted - 2007.02.13 04:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Velxar
Originally by: Velxar What if wardecs would be based on total skillpoints of the corp members? Let's say if a corporation total skillpoints among all members are less than 30 mil it is immune to wardecs. However once it reaches the threshold of 30 mil skillpoints it loses all the immunity.
this is a viable solution with a bit of tweaking as another poster stated to help newer players get into the game b4 others start war deccing his corp so /signed from me
Originally by: hotgirl933 exploits, and scardey cats like u that dont want to PVP in a PVP orientated game
it is a pvp game yes but there are other factors that people like within the game not only pvp how else do you get markets for ship equipment outside of jita , i will agree with u on the exploit front, people shouldnt use it to gaing in anything its a form of cheating imho.
Originally by: Velxar Where did I say I don't want to PvP? I just want to be a bit harder target before I get killed.
most of the best equipment for that you cant use in empire, training and using cloak apart from that the rest you will pick up in time i would suggest have tourny days (with either cheap ships u can afford to lose or go down to hull and that persons out/dead for the rest of tourny within ur corp ( nearly every corp or alliance i have been into has had this sort of thing to keep peoples wamred up for battle or are learning and finding what they like as a perfect fit for that ship) so if ur in a corp try doing some of that and after a while you will start getting good at it cos ull leanr the pros and cons.
If i remember rightly eve university has started back up again on a smaller scale so have a search, i didnt go to one personally but i heard it was great for new players to learn the aspects of pvp
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Infinity Ziona
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.13 05:09:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 13/02/2007 05:13:35 We have that already. I want to create a new war immune corporation called Love n Scordite and I have 6 friends each with 1 million points each. I create a channel called [Love n Scordite], with optional password and then when my character and my friends combined sp reach 30 million and/or we feel able to handle a war declaration I can create the official corporation.
Just remember, the majority of people in this game dont want to kill people who dont want to be killed, and dont want to harm your interests or spoil your fun in RL however the dynamic of the game requires that if you flash red (even if you are a newbie) you consent to be attacked, ship destroyed and pod killed without mercy; And if the newbie didnt realise he could be killed, then the blame must lie on the CEO and officers of the corporation for not explaining to that newbie the mechinisms of war and its implicit consent.
What we need is less rules imo, all these rules make the game complex for newbies.
The Privateering Life |
Velxar
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Posted - 2007.02.13 05:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 13/02/2007 05:13:35 We have that already. I want to create a new war immune corporation called Love n Scordite and I have 6 friends each with 1 million points each. I create a channel called [Love n Scordite], with optional password and then when my character and my friends combined sp reach 30 million and/or we feel able to handle a war declaration I can create the official corporation.
Just remember, the majority of people in this game dont want to kill people who dont want to be killed, and dont want to harm your interests or spoil your fun in RL however the dynamic of the game requires that if you flash red (even if you are a newbie) you consent to be attacked, ship destroyed and pod killed without mercy; And if the newbie didnt realise he could be killed, then the blame must lie on the CEO and officers of the corporation for not explaining to that newbie the mechinisms of war and its implicit consent.
What we need is less rules imo, all these rules make the game complex for newbies.
Good ideas. However I have a little problem helping my friends if one of the privateers flips their cans he's not flashing red to me.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2007.02.13 06:14:00 -
[36]
People want to grief others .. so they prey upon weaker.
Now if you excuse me, we have 2nd carebear corp to dec today. Welcome to Caldari-Online |
MissyDark
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Posted - 2007.02.13 09:09:00 -
[37]
Please let me know, when your corp reaches 50+ members, I'll be sure to wardec you.
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Zoi Opia
Oxide Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.13 09:26:00 -
[38]
These kind of limitations sound very artificial, and thus should not be made a standard. Sure it might help some corporations but it also hinders others. I can easily come up with few scenarios which show the problems of OP's approach:
1) Imagine two small RP corporations consisting mainly of new players wanting to wage a (mutual) war in high sec space. A SP limit on wardecs would prevent this from happening.
2) Now imagine an educational corporation for new players ran by two or three older benefactors paying the bills and advicing new players. The new players themselves would not break the SP limit but together with even one of these older players the corporation will cross the SP boundary and thus become valid targets for a war declaration. The people the SP limitation was intended to protect would now be in harms way.
3) A group of older players create small scale empire hauling/trader/research/whatever alts (< 2M SP each) and form a corporation for them. This corporation would easily stay under the SP limit for being a valid war target and its members would gain all the benefits of being members of a player corp instead of an NPC one.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.02.13 09:42:00 -
[39]
skill point limited corps are just like NPC corps. No difference really except NPC corps with kali 2 will allow factional warfare as well
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.13 09:55:00 -
[40]
No thanks: Pass on this one.
F4T4L - Recruitment |
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Asael
Caldari Nathlin Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:54:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Asael on 13/02/2007 18:51:57
Originally by: Velxar What if wardecs would be based on total skillpoints of the corp members? Let's say if a corporation total skillpoints among all members are less than 30 mil it is immune to wardecs. However once it reaches the threshold of 30 mil skillpoints it loses all the immunity.
No, and here is why. My corporation consists myself and 3 RL friends who recently have started playing. Now i know how to Pvp, i have done it before but i am lucky if my friends even know how to operate a battlecruiser. I myself already have over 20 Million in skillpoints, add the skillpoints of my corp members and we are very close to 30 Mil(If not over it). And there are a lot of corporations in the same ballpark.
The point is, basing war declarations on skillpoints would not work. One small group of small corporations would then have a war dec regulation, and the other large group of small corporations are busted because they have one member who has a high number of skillpoints (mostly the CEO). And that isnt always in pvp related skills.
Edit: Replacing a word blocked by the filter.
______________________________
Nathlin Enterprises Inc. CEO -Everto es hic servo Mihi |
Rebekeah Arendtius
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Rebekeah Arendtius on 13/02/2007 19:17:41
Originally by: Velxar
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 13/02/2007 05:13:35 We have that already. I want to create a new war immune corporation called Love n Scordite and I have 6 friends each with 1 million points each. I create a channel called [Love n Scordite], with optional password and then when my character and my friends combined sp reach 30 million and/or we feel able to handle a war declaration I can create the official corporation.
Just remember, the majority of people in this game dont want to kill people who dont want to be killed, and dont want to harm your interests or spoil your fun in RL however the dynamic of the game requires that if you flash red (even if you are a newbie) you consent to be attacked, ship destroyed and pod killed without mercy; And if the newbie didnt realise he could be killed, then the blame must lie on the CEO and officers of the corporation for not explaining to that newbie the mechinisms of war and its implicit consent.
What we need is less rules imo, all these rules make the game complex for newbies.
Good ideas. However I have a little problem helping my friends if one of the privateers flips their cans he's not flashing red to me.
I can understand you feel you need time to prepare. But if you really are only 1,5 months into the game, perhaps you and your prospective corpmates could first join an low-sec or 0.0 academy corp to learn the ropes, experience the game and then, with a bigger wallet, more SP's and loads of experience, form a corp of your own?
Personally, I was about 2 months into the game when our corp was decced the first time. I died a lot, but learned a lot. After that, we got several decs and we've been living in 0.0 for about a year. Now I kill far more than I lose. Please consider joining an established corp, to get experience and learn from them, then try again forming a corp of your own and go kick some butt.
And about stealing your cans; if you were more experienced, you might mine into a giant secure can which your hauler then takes away or simply jettison the ore only when your hauler is next to you. :)
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:26:00 -
[43]
Nice idea. I think if you could polish it up further, it would sell. Your original idea will make a one pilot corp of noobalts invinsible. Newb griefing has to stop in eVe. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Velxar
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:42:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rebekeah Arendtius Edited by: Rebekeah Arendtius on 13/02/2007 19:17:41
Originally by: Velxar
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 13/02/2007 05:13:35 We have that already. I want to create a new war immune corporation called Love n Scordite and I have 6 friends each with 1 million points each. I create a channel called [Love n Scordite], with optional password and then when my character and my friends combined sp reach 30 million and/or we feel able to handle a war declaration I can create the official corporation.
Just remember, the majority of people in this game dont want to kill people who dont want to be killed, and dont want to harm your interests or spoil your fun in RL however the dynamic of the game requires that if you flash red (even if you are a newbie) you consent to be attacked, ship destroyed and pod killed without mercy; And if the newbie didnt realise he could be killed, then the blame must lie on the CEO and officers of the corporation for not explaining to that newbie the mechinisms of war and its implicit consent.
What we need is less rules imo, all these rules make the game complex for newbies.
Good ideas. However I have a little problem helping my friends if one of the privateers flips their cans he's not flashing red to me.
I can understand you feel you need time to prepare. But if you really are only 1,5 months into the game, perhaps you and your prospective corpmates could first join an low-sec or 0.0 academy corp to learn the ropes, experience the game and then, with a bigger wallet, more SP's and loads of experience, form a corp of your own?
Personally, I was about 2 months into the game when our corp was decced the first time. I died a lot, but learned a lot. After that, we got several decs and we've been living in 0.0 for about a year. Now I kill far more than I lose. Please consider joining an established corp, to get experience and learn from them, then try again forming a corp of your own and go kick some butt.
And about stealing your cans; if you were more experienced, you might mine into a giant secure can which your hauler then takes away or simply jettison the ore only when your hauler is next to you. :)
It's hard to join an established 0.0 corp for those with rather casual play time and also nobody will accept you with less than 5-6 mil skill points. Even if it's not good for me I perfectly understand their point of view.
Of course there corps that would accept new players but when a CEO gives me an advice how to make a better tank fitting shield booster and armor repairer on the same ship I have to pass.
About secure cans it's a funny thing. There are problems anchoring them as they have minimum distance and there's no space left where to anchor. Some asteroid belts probably should be renamed to can belts.
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Kaptein Trefot
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kaptein Trefot on 13/02/2007 20:18:52 I would rather have a system were the war dec cost is related to the number of members you have compared to the corp you war dec. War dec'ing a small corp compared to your own should cost much more than one of your own size in an attempt to stop 'grieving' and noobie bashing.
You will of course have to unable the join gang feature and by doing so join the war without being part of the corp that wardecced in the first place. You should of course still be able to join gangs with different corps but not join the war against a corp your personal corp haven’t war dec'ed.
I haven’t really thought about the replications of implementing it but I’m sure some of you will educate me!
Edit: After actually reading the whole thread I saw this was more or less actually suggested.
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Imaldris
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:25:00 -
[46]
Why are there 500 people in the npc corp I'm in now?
Saw a guy last night who's been in it almost two years.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Velxar What if wardecs would be based on total skillpoints of the corp members? Let's say if a corporation total skillpoints among all members are less than 30 mil it is immune to wardecs. However once it reaches the threshold of 30 mil skillpoints it loses all the immunity.
But ... that might impose a challenge, and some measure of risk on the part of the wardec griefer. Instead, there should be a feature that displays a corp's total SPs on the corp info page so that high-SP corps can be more easily avoided in the search for easy high-sec gank targets.
-- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Nastratu
Minmatar Serefon Creatin
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Velxar That's fine. But first let me earn some ISK to buy a few ships I'm gonna lose. Do you honestly believe we would have a chance in two frigates to fight experiences pvp'ers? Wardec based on skillpoints would let us earn some ISK and learn some essential basics about combat first.
How are you going to learn some essential basics about combat without participating in it?
You won't have a chance, but that is not the point. The point is that you'll be thinking, strategizing, using the knowledge you already possess to try to come up with ways to win and then try them out. That's the point. Nothing teaches you memorable lessons about pvp better than participating in the actual pvp itself. You also stand to learn more from fighting experienced players rather than other noobs who can fly only frigates, don't know what a nos is or haven't figured out how to form a gang yet.
Also, it is common knowledge that if you don't know essential basics about combat, then you probably don't know much about the game and should not be starting a corporation in the first place. Corporations need defense. That is why there are so many guides floating around on this topic. So whether you want it or not, by starting your own corp or joining someone else's you're subscribing to its defense. If you feel like you don't know the very basics about combat, then you should stay in NPC corp until you figure them out. That is what NPC corps were designed for, to give players who don't want to participate in wars a place of refuge.
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Velxar
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Posted - 2007.02.13 21:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nastratu
Originally by: Velxar That's fine. But first let me earn some ISK to buy a few ships I'm gonna lose. Do you honestly believe we would have a chance in two frigates to fight experiences pvp'ers? Wardec based on skillpoints would let us earn some ISK and learn some essential basics about combat first.
How are you going to learn some essential basics about combat without participating in it?
You won't have a chance, but that is not the point. The point is that you'll be thinking, strategizing, using the knowledge you already possess to try to come up with ways to win and then try them out. That's the point. Nothing teaches you memorable lessons about pvp better than participating in the actual pvp itself. You also stand to learn more from fighting experienced players rather than other noobs who can fly only frigates, don't know what a nos is or haven't figured out how to form a gang yet.
Also, it is common knowledge that if you don't know essential basics about combat, then you probably don't know much about the game and should not be starting a corporation in the first place. Corporations need defense. That is why there are so many guides floating around on this topic. So whether you want it or not, by starting your own corp or joining someone else's you're subscribing to its defense. If you feel like you don't know the very basics about combat, then you should stay in NPC corp until you figure them out. That is what NPC corps were designed for, to give players who don't want to participate in wars a place of refuge.
When your frigate evaporates in 5 seconds it's not participation in a combat and you won't learn anything. I know I shouldn't expect a fair fight but still I want to last a bit longer and this requires more skillpoints.
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Nastratu
Minmatar Serefon Creatin
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Posted - 2007.02.15 21:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Velxar When your frigate evaporates in 5 seconds it's not participation in a combat and you won't learn anything. I know I shouldn't expect a fair fight but still I want to last a bit longer and this requires more skillpoints.
I had frigates and cruisers evaporate from me in 5 seconds and I've definitely learned from these encounters. May be you should try it out first before saying that you can't learn anything. Alternatively you can also wait until you're flying 20-100 mil ships with millions worth in fittings and expensive implants in your head to start learning and making mistakes. Only to tell you the truth, that will be much more painful and damaging to your wallet.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.15 22:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Roddiev
Originally by: Agent Li No.
Why do people keep posting these kind of replies, it's moronic
No, the original idea has obvious faults, this response is appropriate. ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! Privateers FTW |
Yendri
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.02.15 22:39:00 -
[52]
Skillpoints do []bnot[/b] equal ability.
I know from personal experience on the giving end that a fortnight old character with under 1/2million SP can wipe the floor of 3-4mill sp players if they know what they're doing.
I have also had 30m sp character(s) thrashed in pvp by players with a tenth of my own SP, too.
SP means *nothing* beyond the "I've managed to broaden my range of ability" advantage.
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