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Wizie
Minmatar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:32:00 -
[31]
Deimos with blasters will never kill a decent Vaga pilot.
Deimos with rails will force a regular Vaga pilot to run away.
implant fitted Vaga pilots are not the norm (9K/s types).
The Isthar with ew fitted (tracking disruptor or dampner/ecm) will also force the Vaga to either become less useful or run away. Other than that, I don't see it killing the Vaga.
The key thing to know about Vaga. Its not whether you can kill it (cuz you can't unless he screws up or you have a rapier/hugin waiting on the sidelines). Its more an issue of can you make him run away.
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Sig removed by some noob |
Sundisco
Minmatar
Intergalactic Capsuleer Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:34:00 -
[32]
When you say run away, do you mean fly out of a scrammers range then warp?
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Helferin
Gallente
Bookmarkers on weed
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:38:00 -
[33]
every half skilled vaga pilot will know how to beat a deimos...
sorry m8, but imo this thread is  "what a quest bbq?!"
ofc there are taktics for the deimos pilot to beat the vaga....
mmmh 200mm Rails maybe and a huge exp/kin tank..... dunno......
still... vaga > deimos
... but you could aswell fit a banana, a milkshake and some jewllery to make that work.. |
Wizie
Minmatar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:39:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Sundisco
When you say run away, do you mean fly out of a scrammers range then warp?
Not necessarily warp. Most Vaga pilots dont warp out. They just do a few bursts of MWD and end up anywhere from 60-200K away. Doesn't mean they won't try again.
Vaga has a lot of hp, but if you have forced him to run, hes losing that hp and the passive recharge isn't nearly quick enough that you'll see him coming back for ya.
Properly fitted NOS ships (BS sized), tracking disruptor sized tanked cruisers and most decently tanked Bcruisers can force a Vagabond into retreat easily.
The Vaga excels at killing soft targets. Npcing BS that are already being dealt a lot of dmg. Against a welll setup ship they are most often forced into retreat.
The deimos is an exception. With its best fitting it is just rightly setup to lose to a Vaga.
I can fly both, and I can't wait for a Deimos boost. Tired of the boredom of engaging npcing Ravens or running away from everything else in my Vaga
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Sig removed by some noob |
Dreez
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: twit brent
Some idiot designed a close range ship that:
1) cant tank
2) very vunerable to webbs
3) Very Very vunerable to nos
4) Horrible spped and agility
5) Very hard to fit
Yeah, those Gallente Ship-designers must be realy idiots.
And it doesnt improve their IQ by not researching and releasing
a new, improved Diemos. Me personally, i belive that those
gallente ship-designers fly****abonds so they dont care about
the diemos.
TomB, Tux & Oveur comming home from the latest meeting
for denying blastership boosts.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.13 17:35:00 -
[36]
Deimos is not nor will ever be a solo ship. Take a look at it's parent ship, the Thorax and you will understand why. The Thorax does not tank well in comparison to other tier 3 cruisers and is far more suseptable to nos, these weaknesses are ballanced out by the fact that it is the king of DPS in it's class making it an amazing small gang DPS ship. The Deimos follows this same trend however it makes small headway on the Thorax's largest weakness (cap) and vasty enhances it's short term survivability and firepower.
In conclusion: Diemos is not a solo ship and will turn into a nice bright blue explosion if you take it 1v1 against a vaga. Use the ships strengths and fly with a buddy in an Ewar ship (lachesis arazu work great) as you're not going to find more DPS in a cruiser sized platform.
Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got" |
Sundisco
Minmatar
Intergalactic Capsuleer Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:30:00 -
[37]
How do you find out the DPS of a ship?
4v4 is like 5v5 but with an extra pilot on each side (c)Sundisco |
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sundisco
How do you find out the DPS of a ship?
Damage modifier / RoF delay x damage of ammunition = DPS of said turret or missile bay. If your ship is using all of the same weapon type then you can simply take the DPS of one weapon and multiply it by the number of weapons.
Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got" |
Heimd4ll
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:49:00 -
[39]
Just out of interest, what are the best rigs to fit to a vaga?
2x Falloff, 2x Tracking, One of Each, Kin resistance and 2x LSE IIs in the meds, MWD speed boost rigs? There seems a lot of options and i'm pretty stuck between them
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Omega Bloodstone
Battlestars
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Heimd4ll
Just out of interest, what are the best rigs to fit to a vaga?
2x Falloff, 2x Tracking, One of Each, Kin resistance and 2x LSE IIs in the meds, MWD speed boost rigs? There seems a lot of options and i'm pretty stuck between them
I use a tracking rig. Helps to hit with the high speeds the other I play between ROF/shield/or speed rig. But I find the tracking rig the best.
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LiNkIsMaXiMuS
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:00:00 -
[41]
if your gunna use a deimos to kill a vaga, dont forget to bring a huggin/rapier with you
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Sundisco
Minmatar
Intergalactic Capsuleer Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:16:00 -
[42]
What does RoF stand for?
4v4 is like 5v5 but with an extra pilot on each side (c)Sundisco |
XerZex
Puppets on Steroids
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:17:00 -
[43]
rate of fire.
vaga ftw.
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Sundisco
Minmatar
Intergalactic Capsuleer Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.13 19:25:00 -
[44]
On the falloff modifier on the advanced autocannon ammo, if its 50% will it make the falloff smaller or larger?
4v4 is like 5v5 but with an extra pilot on each side (c)Sundisco |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.02.13 21:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sundisco
On the falloff modifier on the advanced autocannon ammo, if its 50% will it make the falloff smaller or larger?
Barrage has 50% larger falloff and Hail has 50% shorter fall off.
So if falloff was 10km initially it would be 15km with Barrage and 5km with Hail.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
LeMoose
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:35:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Captain Crimson
The demios is a close combat ship, yet has a lowest speed of all HACs..... The speed of the vagabond is really helpful in solo work. The demios.... well, it's hard to fit for solo work. It's more of a damge dealer in gangs.
In 1v1, the vagabond would win if the pilot had any idea what he was doing. He would just stay out of range of the demios.
lol deimos aint slowest
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Captain Crimson
CoreTech Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sundisco
What does RoF stand for?
.... oh dear.
'What do you mean, where's the treasure? It's in this chest: ****ography and biscuits! Yarrr!'
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CherniyVolk
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Posted - 2007.02.14 01:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sundisco
What if the Deimos was using rails, or don't people put rails on a Deimos?
Rails take up too much PowerGrid. With blasters, the Deimos could, indefinately tank most Vagabond setups with nothing more than T2 modules. The Vagabond is the one of the lowest DPS HACs only beaten by the Sacrilege. Best to keep the Deimos tank, because with crap tracking of rails, you'll never hit the Vagabond orbiting you are over 2KM/s.
While you can perma-tank many Vagabond setups in a Deimos, it wouldn't be wise to lower your guard. A Vagabond can perma-tackle you, and when his friends arrive you're dead.
If you can manage to hold a Vagabond (Dual Fleeting Webbers maybe), then the Deimos will shred any Vagabond fit very very easily with blasters. Was it a HAC? Thought it was a newb in a Stabber... They are paper thin.
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Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.14 02:36:00 -
[49]
Nanodomi > HACs. 
тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
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Minuz1
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.14 04:33:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Minuz1 on 14/02/2007 04:29:59
Deimos + Domination webifier?
The Tech 2 Lottery is rigged, In my favor!
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2007.02.14 06:21:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CherniyVolk
Edited by: CherniyVolk on 14/02/2007 01:25:43
Originally by: Sundisco
What if the Deimos was using rails, or don't people put rails on a Deimos?
Rails take up too much PowerGrid. With blasters, the Deimos could, indefinately tank most Vagabond setups with nothing more than T2 modules. The Vagabond is the one of the lowest DPS HACs only beaten by the Sacrilege. Best to keep the Deimos tank, because with crap tracking of rails, you'll never hit the Vagabond orbiting you are over 2KM/s.
While you can perma-tank many Vagabond setups in a Deimos, it wouldn't be wise to lower your guard. A Vagabond can perma-tackle you, and when his friends arrive you're dead.
If you can manage to hold a Vagabond (Dual Fleeting Webbers maybe), then the Deimos will shred any Vagabond fit very very easily with blasters. Was it a HAC? Thought it was a newb in a Stabber... They are paper thin.
Again, to stress what has already been stressed... A Vagabond pilot isn't going to sit around 2K from a Deimos, he'll do a fly by, but as for you holding him still... not likely.
Engagements between these two ships are often stalemate I think; but usually in favor of the Vagabond in some way. The Deimos, being king of close range combat sorta deprives the Vagabond from getting in real close and restricting his distance at just over 10KM (also pushing him out of Medium NOS range). The Deimos can't do much to hold him, so often you just get the two ships playing around somewhere in deep space.
When this happens, which is probably most likely the scenerio unless one or the other ships are not fitted for PvP. It boils down to who can get their friends to show up faster will be the winner; hands down.
if you wanna tank a vagabond it'll involve 2 MAR II's, 3x armor explosive II and an armor kinetic II
300ish dps on explosive is tough to tank in a deimos
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Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:58:00 -
[52]
There are ways to kill a vaga in a deimos 1vs1. However:
1)Your only gonna get one shot at it.
2)Huge room for error
3)Its really hard to pull off.
Basically what im saying is dont waste your money on a deimos. It has alot of flaws.
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Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.02.14 08:57:00 -
[53]
haven't lost a single time to a deimos, never met a deimos with rails either.
Killed I think 3-4 deimos 1v1, dunno why they engaged me.
It's like "Keep at range 18km, put MWD on, put guns on, go make sandwich". (And no, he won't get you into range by trying to yo-yo you, you are too agile).
And as for rigs, 1x falloff rig, gives you 3-4km extra falloff (which is very nice for dps) and 1x kinetic resist rig or 1x mwd/ab speed rig, whichever you prefer.
It also depends what you want to fit it for... Pure tackling, or heavier hitter.
You can variate speed between 4km/s and upto 6.5km/s without implants iirc.
Although if you fit 2x istab, 3x nano, 2x mwd/ab speed rigs, your dps will suck, and it will be more like 180-200 in falloff range...
Also, vaga does not have optimal of 16km. Vaga has optimal of 1km. But a falloff [hac 4, traj analysis 4, Barrage M] of 20km and with a falloff rig this increases to 23km
N.F.F. Recruitment |
B0rn2KiLL
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2007.02.14 09:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: twit brent
Some idiot designed a close range ship that:
1) cant tank
2) very vunerable to webbs
3) Very Very vunerable to nos
4) Horrible spped and agility
5) Very hard to fit
qft.
i love mine but granted, for its role, its pretty badly designed.
---
new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u.
*Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11
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Caletha
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Posted - 2007.02.14 09:51:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
300ish dps on explosive is tough to tank in a deimos
300ish dps when a vagabond is orbiting you at 12-15km? Very unlikely. Fall off alone will make half his hits not hit (which would mean you're saying a vagabond does 500-600dps). If he has to MWD to break the tracking of the Deimos, then his dps will drop even more.
Its very unlikely that the vagabond would die to a Deimos unless he made a mistake. But its very unlikely the Deimos wouldnt be able to make it back to the gate and jump out. (and its very unlikely you find a Deimos in a belt)
So in the end, neither would win and the Vagabond would just end up having to find a noob to kill. In reality, after flying a vagabond for a while, I dont fear them nearly as much as people make you believe in this thread.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.14 09:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Lakotnik
Deimos fitted with rails, dual web, tracking comp, tracking enhancers and some magstabs in addition to a bit of tank/plate could make standard vaga run. Killing it is out of question.
How? Said vaga doesnt get within 10km so webs are not relevant.
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Socrates Nacht
Caldari
Red Light Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:08:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Caletha
Originally by: Deathbarrage
300ish dps on explosive is tough to tank in a deimos
300ish dps when a vagabond is orbiting you at 12-15km? Very unlikely. Fall off alone will make half his hits not hit (which would mean you're saying a vagabond does 500-600dps). If he has to MWD to break the tracking of the Deimos, then his dps will drop even more.
Its very unlikely that the vagabond would die to a Deimos unless he made a mistake. But its very unlikely the Deimos wouldnt be able to make it back to the gate and jump out. (and its very unlikely you find a Deimos in a belt)
So in the end, neither would win and the Vagabond would just end up having to find a noob to kill. In reality, after flying a vagabond for a while, I dont fear them nearly as much as people make you believe in this thread.
Your accuracy doesn't automatically drop to 50% or lower once you enter falloff.
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Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:20:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ryysa on 14/02/2007 10:17:46
Originally by: Caletha
Originally by: Deathbarrage
300ish dps on explosive is tough to tank in a deimos
300ish dps when a vagabond is orbiting you at 12-15km? Very unlikely. Fall off alone will make half his hits not hit (which would mean you're saying a vagabond does 500-600dps). If he has to MWD to break the tracking of the Deimos, then his dps will drop even more.
Its very unlikely that the vagabond would die to a Deimos unless he made a mistake. But its very unlikely the Deimos wouldnt be able to make it back to the gate and jump out. (and its very unlikely you find a Deimos in a belt)
So in the end, neither would win and the Vagabond would just end up having to find a noob to kill. In reality, after flying a vagabond for a while, I dont fear them nearly as much as people make you believe in this thread.
Assuming you have 23km falloff on vagabond.
If you are 15km from target (optimal was 1km iirc?), you would do about 30% less damage.
Vagabond does around 350 dps with guns if it's gank fitted, meaning that you'd do around 240 dps. Now add in the damage from 5x light t2 drones, and you're back at slightly over 300 dps.
But yeah, you are right, vagabond solo is only good for killing npc-aggroed carebears in belt, and sniper setup long range fitted battleships. You can try to kill some cruisers and frigs, if you can catch them.
But who needs vagabonds when you have nanophoons ? :D
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