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Nerf Cloaks for non-specialized shipzz

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Ecuatoria	Posted - 2007.02.13 19:45:00 - [1] Why they should work on carriers/ms/titans/ravens even on nanodomis? etc? its just like WCS in old time - quite miserable
Karasu Kaizoku Caldari Project Mortormis	Posted - 2007.02.13 19:54:00 - [2] 30 second lock time?* - CCP are forum ***'s for removing a signature .00001 byte over the limit.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:06:00 - [3] please correct me if I am wrong but I believe the lock time penalty is only after decloaking but since the op was likening them to WCS I believe they were talking more about the ability to hide in a system when being chased and be unfindable anyway if thats the issue, they have talked about giving the ability to find cloaked ships in game with scanning, I think it could be such a huge balance shifting change that it should be limited to one specialized ship, say another round of tech 2 destroyers Originally by: Stamm Some people might have been convinced by the official announcement posted by Steelrat, but not me, I wasn't convinced until some random alt posts a brand new thread.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:35:00 - [4] I can't see how they are a big problem. I don't think I should be limited to using the Covert-Ops cloak and have to skill for that ship. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:39:00 - [5] Cloaks have penalties for fitting them, lose a hi slot, lock time nerf, etc. BUT.... IMO they should not work on MS and Titans, should be flip side of being EW immune..cant have your cake and eat it too. Also, we need the special cloaker finding probes we were promised, to find all cloaked ships. Should bring in cloaks to where they should be after all of the above. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn cant have your cake and eat it too. So the point of having the cake is?
Ethyn Caldari Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Ecuatoria Why they should work on carriers/ms/titans/ravens even on nanodomis? etc? its just like WCS in old time - quite miserable You sir, are just a little kid who would like all your enjoyment handed to you on a silver plater. You want a kill... EARN IT! Ethyn GO Fast or Die!
Norvys Kerens Gallente Terror Knights	Posted - 2007.02.13 21:26:00 - [8] well i've never had a major problem with cloaks in game, though it could be interesting if CCP do introduce a method of scanning for cloaked ships. Would this just apply to prototype and improved cloaks or would it apply to cov-ops as well? I only have two real problems with cloaking devices, firstly the fact that there's no t1 covert ops cloak. Interdictors are designed for use with sphere launchers and the launchers are readily available as t1 BPO's, dread owners can build their own siege modules, Command Ships and BC pilots don't need to approach T2 producers for gang mods, mining barge pilots can build their own T1 strip miners if they wish. So why are recons and cov-ops the only specialist ship in game that has a fitting bonus to a specific module, but no Tech 1 version of that module available forcing them to go to the T2 market? I could be wrong here as i'm going from memory but I can't think of a single other ship in game that is designed for use with a specific module and that module is only available in tech II form. My second problem with cloaks is that I think proto cloaks are broken when the speed is altered for bombers. I have cov ops 5 and with an improved cloak I get 57% speed increase when cloaked but with a t1 cloak I get a 37% speed decrease so surely the speed increase per level is being applied differently to the 2 types of cloaks?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.13 21:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn cant eat your cake and have it too. Fixed. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Got Alliance? Contact me ingame for alliance creation services.
Divine Misconception	Posted - 2007.02.13 21:43:00 - [10] Your idea is dumb. To elaborate Your idea dumbs down eve, even further. -------------------------------- Coke Habit.
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2007.02.13 21:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Ethyn You want a kill... EARN IT! By doing what? Probing? There is nothing you can do once they cloak...
gazarsgo Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:14:00 - [12] step 1) align to them step 2) turn on mwd and full speed step 3) uncloak them by hitting them step 4) pew pew pew!
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:39:00 - [13] Originally by: gazarsgo step 1) align to them step 2) turn on mwd and full speed step 3) uncloak them by hitting them step 4) pew pew pew! step 0) Get to them using the new probe to find cloaked ships. Forsch Defender of the empire What have you done CCP..
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: gazarsgo step 1) align to them step 2) turn on mwd and full speed step 3) uncloak them by hitting them step 4) pew pew pew! step 0) Get to them using the new probe to find cloaked ships. Step -1) Get CCP to add the option to probe cloaked ships
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:49:00 - [15] Include a new, destroyer only, smartbomb like module that decloaks anything within a certain radius.
gazarsgo Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:59:00 - [16] there's no reason you should be able to locate someone cloaked if you aren't on their grid. it would be nice if there was a visible anomaly, ala Star Trek / Klingon cloaks, but I think drones serve this purpose quite functionally. it's not at all like pre-nerf WCS. cloaks have several drawbacks as already explained. i'm a pvper, but i don't think you should be able to bring the fight indiscriminately to anyone if they fit specifically against it. probes to scan out cloakers? Lame.
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:41:00 - [17] It's fine as it is - non Covert ships can't de-cloak/kill/re-cloak the way that cloakers can. Pre-patch stab issues were when someone could engage, kill if getting the upper hand or get out if not. This is completely different and I never even fit the buggers, so it's not as if I'm trying to protect some kind of pwn-all kind of setup... Next you'll be asking for it to be possible to force people to undock from a stations... Get over it. Actually, wait, you may be onto something...
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:54:00 - [18] This is EvE, there are lots of things that aren't the same as normal SciFi literature. Just to name a few: Cloaks on non-dedicated ships Warp Distruptors on non-dedicated ships The existance of WCS The existance of NOS (neutralizers are a different story) Small webbers effecting larger vessels (sheer power-output would nullify). And the list goes on and on and on. Hint: its a game. <-----------> oveur --> Eve is PRIMARILY a PvP game. Primarily != 100%
Kellzz	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:32:00 - [19] the point of cloaking is to run away. if there is a probe to scan for cloaked ships, it should have a small radius. though im sure some people want whole system scans.
Ethyn Caldari Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Yarek Balear It's fine as it is - non Covert ships can't de-cloak/kill/re-cloak the way that cloakers can. Pre-patch stab issues were when someone could engage, kill if getting the upper hand or get out if not. This is completely different and I never even fit the buggers, so it's not as if I'm trying to protect some kind of pwn-all kind of setup... Next you'll be asking for it to be possible to force people to undock from a stations... Get over it. Actually, wait, you may be onto something... Well said. As I've said before you want to kill something... Earn it. That doesn't mean that as soon as your first target dissappears give up. To the contrary it means go after them or find another. Ethyn GO Fast or Die!
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.02.14 01:07:00 - [21] Increase cloak penalties on non-cloak ships? Sure. Be able to scan for cloaked ships? No effin way!
mallina Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.14 01:10:00 - [22] Edited by: mallina on 14/02/2007 01:07:26 nothing wrong with cloaks. their purpose is defensive only, you cannot mount one and remain combat-effective on most ships (much like fitting WCS now, which is fine and how it should be) that being said, there are some interesting bait tactics that can be utilized with cloaked, high-DPS ships (Gankgeddon comes to mind) but ive yet to see anyone bother trying it outside of sisi cloak-specced ships are able to remain 100% combat effective when fitting the cloak and can warp whilst cloaked. the fact standard ships are unable to do this drives most away from even thinking about fitting one.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.02.14 01:13:00 - [23] Originally by: mallina cloak-specced ships are able to remain 100% combat effective when fitting the cloak and can warp whilst cloaked. the fact standard ships are unable to do this drives most away from even thinking about fitting one. Yeah, they maintain 100% of their effectiveness. The trade-off is that their 100% is about 50% of what a non-cloaker of the same size has.
Kaligar	Posted - 2007.02.14 01:19:00 - [24] A Nerf post ! ? ! ? ! There are already 3 drawbacks into that modules: 1. CPU (learn the skil); 2. Speed; 3. Scan Resolution. So: 1. Learn; 2. Adapt; 3. Grow up . . . . . . and stop crying!
mallina Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.14 01:45:00 - [25] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: mallina cloak-specced ships are able to remain 100% combat effective when fitting the cloak and can warp whilst cloaked. the fact standard ships are unable to do this drives most away from even thinking about fitting one. Yeah, they maintain 100% of their effectiveness. The trade-off is that their 100% is about 50% of what a non-cloaker of the same size has. so you're saying a combat recon with a cloak is more combat effective than a force recon? i dont get it
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.02.14 02:59:00 - [26] Originally by: mallina Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: mallina cloak-specced ships are able to remain 100% combat effective when fitting the cloak and can warp whilst cloaked. the fact standard ships are unable to do this drives most away from even thinking about fitting one. Yeah, they maintain 100% of their effectiveness. The trade-off is that their 100% is about 50% of what a non-cloaker of the same size has. so you're saying a combat recon with a cloak is more combat effective than a force recon? i dont get it No. I'm saying that a HAC is more combat effective than a recon. They are both "elite" cruisers. The recon gets the "cloak", the HAC get the "dagger". The trade-off that the recon makes for being able to cloak and retain all of its combat effectiveness is that that retained combat effectivess is already pre-nerfed. Which is why allowing scanning to find cloaked ship is like a double-nerf.
mallina Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:12:00 - [27] Edited by: mallina on 14/02/2007 03:10:33 k, but non-cloaking ships fitted with cloaks still have little use other than sometimes hiding at gatecamps (but more often getting detected) or going AFK at safespots. if people want to cloak then generally people will use force recons because they can get right ontop of their victim without them knowing a thing and can decloak+engage within a small enough timespan to stand a good chance of obtaining a tackle. these are not attainable by non-cloaking ships, so even if they're 10x more combat effective (which isnt really the case, force recons are somewhat of pwnmobiles, even versus HACs) they still stand far less chance of actually catching their target.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:33:00 - [28] Originally by: mallina Edited by: mallina on 14/02/2007 03:10:33 k, but non-cloaking ships fitted with cloaks still have little use other than sometimes hiding at gatecamps (but more often getting detected) or going AFK at safespots. if people want to cloak then generally people will use force recons because they can get right ontop of their victim without them knowing a thing and can decloak+engage within a small enough timespan to stand a good chance of obtaining a tackle. these are not attainable by non-cloaking ships, so even if they're 10x more combat effective (which isnt really the case, force recons are somewhat of pwnmobiles, even versus HACs) they still stand far less chance of actually catching their target. We have a disconnect. I'm not arguing agianst you. My first response was to actually add to and bolster your argument. Then we got sidetracked.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:44:00 - [29] lol (my post is constructive. about as constructive as this topic ) how about we just nerf everything, would that make everyone happy? forumwarrior18:but hank, how far should we nerf everything? till we all running around as paladins and ogres w/ swords. ------ so you wanna nerf cloaks because...? when they cloak you cant see them? hmm... that is a problem. its also THE POINT. ok, sir, if you could take a number. oh and here is a name tag (tag reads: "Thinks cloaks shouldn't cloak so well") sir , if ya could, perhaps you wanna just fall in line in the nerf nano's thread? those ppl are conviced mwds should not make your ship go fast and you could probly get them to bandwagon onto your nerf the moment they finish that thread up. thx and have a nice day
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Shardrael please correct me if I am wrong but I believe the lock time penalty is only after decloaking but since the op was likening them to WCS I believe they were talking more about the ability to hide in a system when being chased and be unfindable anyway if thats the issue, they have talked about giving the ability to find cloaked ships in game with scanning, I think it could be such a huge balance shifting change that it should be limited to one specialized ship, say another round of tech 2 destroyers I think that non covert ops ships should be findable with difficulty by a specialized ship. Basicaly anything that requires covert ops should fly should not be findable, but that annoying dommi would be findable.

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