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98040
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.04.03 21:10:13 -
[1] - Quote
Alt corp has been trying out FW for the last month. We joined Cal Mil b/c it was more convenient to our existing office locations and logistics.
Here are the liner notes from our experience.
Summary
Overall, take whatever fun experience you are having in traditional alliance warfare, divide by 4, and you will be closer to what FW has to offer today. Cal Mil players seem to be genuinely disinterested in organizing any kind of mature PvP (RR, BLOP, EWAR, etc.) or scenario based play. The risk/reward aspect of FW is mostly one-sided (all risk, no reward). There's a real gap without shared goals or common objectives to keep people working together. There is an excessive amount of drama and band inappropriate behavior that would normally result in a player or corp getting kicked from a traditional alliance. There is no alliance leadership to speak of.
Pros and Cons
+
War Targets in convenient systems Close proximity to Jita means resupply isn't an issue. No bubbles. Great resource for Noobs and Alliance rejects.
- Alliance Structure and Operations
Complete disorganization at every level. ('herding cats'). No Alliance structure No Alliance leadership council (stated or assumed) No Alliance status updates or communications. (how are we doing?) No connectivity back to NPC alliances in terms of alignment towards NPC alliance goals (Cal Mil is an NPC alliance, after all) No shared goals or objectives that can be worked on. No one knows what systems are important to capture or retake. No continuity or persistence of presence means lots of peaks/valleys in terms of who you can find to play with.
FW Fleets Players who gravitate towards leadership roles (former FC's, etc.) will find that their ops are like running a training school. Lots of inexperienced pilots will get you killed, a lot. No way to tell who you are dealing with. No regular use of voice comms means most engagements are crippled at inception. Inexperienced pilots will make all-hands announcements for reinforcements (and draw everyone into a kill zone). Fleets / Roams are non-existent. Most PvP is still organized at the corp level
FW Alliance Mechanics Alliance espionage is a real setback for travel, logistics, and hit-and-run guerrilla warfare by opponents. Nothing to lose, so no motivation by players to participate. Hundreds of players in Alliance chat, and less than a dozen in a group when an all-hands is called. Alliance LP payouts are hard to accumulate and really worth much. Plexes are typically a joke in terms of difficulty. If you can run L4/L5 missions, these will not be interesting. Very few real isk-making opportunities related to alliance or FW. Almost all FW missions are in lowsec, which is regularly camped and patrolled by hostiles and pirate gangs. Risk/reward payout is weak, at best.
This faction seem incapable of directing its own resources. It is also incapable of securing and/or defending its own territory from Pirates and other FW Alliances. Most would say that means that FW is a Club, not an Alliance.
Conclusion Overall, traditional alliance warfare is still the best bet for players who have even a tiny amount of pvp experience. In its current state, FW is nothing more than an RvB training camp where risks and losses far exceed stated or real rewards. There will, ofc, be at least a couple of exceptions that will attempt to tell you everything is fine.
Our overall dissatisfaction and disappointment should really tell you a lot. We came into FW expecting the worst, and it was all of that and more.
ymmv. |
Dreaded Vengance
CTRL-Q Spaceship Bebop
100
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Posted - 2016.04.03 23:19:13 -
[2] - Quote
In other news; Galmil dunked 13 caps fighting 3 fleets in Eha tonight
One of those fleets was Calmil - I guess the OP didn't get an invite
CTRL-Q are recruiting - Gallente Faction Warfare, Small Gang, Low Sec PvP, New Player friendly. Want to know the truth about low sec?
Diary of a Low Sec Capsuleer
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Madrax573
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
34
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Posted - 2016.04.03 23:19:16 -
[3] - Quote
hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
Did you really come into FW and expect it to be something even close to a form of alliance?!
Oh boy! Then there was no way you would end up enjoying it!
For most of your " - " points a lot of FW player think are positives.
Really FW is nothing like alliance warfare. Yes at time it may seem that way to an outsider when once in a few years all the current players on one side do actually team up for short while but in reality FW is more of a 'Fight Club' like you mentioned.
It is a militia, not a military. These guys value their freedom more than most and find it in FW.
Lets face it FW has a lot to offer people like that (And me for eg) No rules from 'Command', Easy access to pretty constant pvp (FW has by far been the most pvp area in game for years), Easy ability to fun pvp through the general course of play, Can pvp in low sec without the sec status hits pretty easily.
What combat lusting nutjob wouldn't want that without all the hassle and bull shite etc that come with big alliance lvl crap (unless of course you are happy to be one of the F1 pushing crowd)
Really anyone who come to FW with a predetermined view of it is doing it and themselves a disservice. FW isn't for everyone just mission running (or pve in general) or null alliance stuff isn't for everyone. But if its fights you want you will get more fights in and around the FW area of space than anywhere else, proven.
Spewing Fire - my blog
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1825
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Posted - 2016.04.04 14:17:01 -
[4] - Quote
Dreaded Vengance wrote:In other news; Galmil dunked 13 caps fighting 3 fleets in Eha tonight
One of those fleets was Calmil - I guess the OP didn't get an invite
Said brawl
Comms might sound disorganised, but its always best when you have a soft spoken FC to have a very drunk loud german shouting the command repeatedly, interjected with words of encouragement like 'kill it, kill it, kill it', just so were all on the same page! |
Dreaded Vengance
CTRL-Q Spaceship Bebop
100
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Posted - 2016.04.04 14:57:16 -
[5] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Said brawlComms might sound disorganised, but its always best when you have a soft spoken FC to have a very drunk loud german shouting the command repeatedly, interjected with words of encouragement like 'kill it, kill it, kill it', just so were all on the same page!
Mute kept me sane
Also
B L A S T E R M E G A
And
GF SWEG., Ev0ke
lol -SPR-, so bad they whore on the guys they batphone
CTRL-Q are recruiting - Gallente Faction Warfare, Small Gang, Low Sec PvP, New Player friendly. Want to know the truth about low sec?
Diary of a Low Sec Capsuleer
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1069
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Posted - 2016.04.04 23:00:53 -
[6] - Quote
Confirming calmil is bad. We totally don't know how to press anything beyond F1. Being able to press F1 and F2 is considered elite PVP in calmil. Pressing F1 to F3 means you're a spy from galmil.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Iyokus Patrouette
Empty Vessels
1333
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Posted - 2016.04.07 22:25:51 -
[7] - Quote
98040 wrote: Conclusion Overall, traditional alliance warfare is still the best bet for players who have even a tiny amount of pvp experience.
Traditional Alliance warfare is the worst place for players with pvp experience.
Tonights op, sit in staging station wait for everyone to get ready while hearing 'we need moar logi, not undocking without more logi.' Ok lets go grind this structure/timer oh enemy fleet! take fleet warps for randomly genereated time until both fleets land next to eachother. Press f1 on broadcast targets.
totally best place for players with pvp experience.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Epikurus
TunDraGon Project.Mayhem.
105
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Posted - 2016.04.10 09:28:57 -
[8] - Quote
You seem to not have looked at FW beyond the NPC Corp. Pretty much everything you say about F W is wrong because you have somehow managed to overlook the fact that everything noteworthy is done by FW alliances and coalitions that don't have much to do with the NPC setup. For example, what you say about not using voice comes is ridiculous. The coalition of cal mil alliances that does most of the heavy lifting has a shared ts server and ALL fleets have comms (obviously). I'll be honest and say that you really seem to have failed your Corp by not managing to understand how FW works beyond the NPC Corp chat, which is largely irrelevant. The experience you have had is on you. If you want a different one go and talk to the non-NPC FW alliances.
Tldr is you have gone to the rookie chat channel for FW and mistaken that for actual faction warfare. |
Fourteen Maken
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
267
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Posted - 2016.04.24 22:08:51 -
[9] - Quote
I understand the disappointment, it sounds like you've been dealing with pubby fleets militia chat and sprot, but this is not caldari millitia, you were never in caldari militia you just thought you were. The coalitions and alliances have their own doctrines and pilots who know how to fly them but you won't get many of those people in your fleets until they get to know you, and they can't just let everyone tag along on their ops either.
pubby fleets can be fun, and even effective if you know how to get the most out of low skilled pilots in sht fits, if you do a good job you might even be able to recruit them and get them to train into doctrines later, but don't expect to scrape a hac doctrine straight out of caldari militia chat, in fact don't expect to get any kind of doctrine out of militia chat. Expect to get a group of over enthusiastic newbro's and bitter drunks flying kitchen sinks looking for a good fight before they log off.
Your typical caldari pubby fleet is comprised of noobs in ab merlins who may or may not have the right guns fitted, there will be punishers, condors, kestrels, various tristans, rifters, and atrons, sometimes a t1 fitted cuiser or battlecruiser and there's always at least one guy in a garmur orbiting at 40km hoping to pick off a few wt's in the confusion. It must be distressing for wannabe fleet commanders when they call a primary and they're still the only ones putting damage on it 30 seconds later, but it's not because the fleet is ignoring you (except the garmur dude, he's totally ignoring you and he's probably got coms muted) but the rest are either still scrolling through the wrecks and asteroid belts and structures on their overview trying to find the name you called, or they're scared and confused, drifting away into outer space with their prop mod on and no clue where they are in relation to the battle or why they cant seem to lock anything.
If you want to be more effective it's up to you to fit up cheap t1 frigates and destroyers with simple tactics that even day old players can follow, you need to bring them into/close to the warzone yourself and have a stockpile of them ready to sell/give out or your fleet ends up spending most of the time flying back and forward to reship all over low sec. A blob of cheap derptrons is about as good as it gets, but we always get swaggering blowhards trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and it never works. keep it simple stupid. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2939
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Posted - 2016.04.25 17:47:57 -
[10] - Quote
Worst piece of 0.0 propoganda I've seen in quite a while.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Hans Arzi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.04.25 22:18:04 -
[11] - Quote
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/54762073.jpg |
Mr Duffo
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit The Bloc
162
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Posted - 2016.05.04 18:09:30 -
[12] - Quote
long live caldari |
Katherie Hobbes
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
41
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Posted - 2016.05.19 21:23:24 -
[13] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote: but it's not because the fleet is ignoring you (except the garmur dude, he's totally ignoring you and he's probably got coms muted) but the rest are either still scrolling through the wrecks and asteroid belts and structures on their overview trying to find the name you called, or they're scared and confused, drifting away into outer space with their prop mod on and no clue where they are in relation to the battle or why they cant seem to lock anything.
Have you been spying on me? This is eerily accurate.
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Zifrian
State Protectorate Caldari State
1725
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Posted - 2016.05.20 02:17:12 -
[14] - Quote
Um, I just re-subbed to try out FW and found it incredibly fun. I spent quite a bit of time in null and it's just gate camping and complaining about not having the right "fleet doctrine" with enough logi. I watched people from our "pvp corp" in the alliance completely go crazy because we had a few people kill some reds in system and they didn't get to blob them. Serious.
Everything you said about calmil I haven't found to be true by any stretch and if you don't like something, there is nothing stopping you from making your own alliance and organizing people to play with. But I got to roam with a fleet and we got some quick kills as well as some quick losses but there is pvp happening everywhere in FW from what I can tell. I never saw that in null.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Industry guy, third-party developer, jack-of-all-trades - master of none
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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Mr Duffo
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit The Bloc
172
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Posted - 2016.05.22 06:08:22 -
[15] - Quote
Ineeedio. I couldnt finish plexes yesterday when always aomeone came to pew pew schoosh kaboom ayoo gjhaa vicroryy.
Skegg¦½ld, Skálm¦½ld, Skildir ro Klofnir!
Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
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Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
879
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Posted - 2016.05.23 19:14:37 -
[16] - Quote
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
807
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Posted - 2016.05.24 05:01:32 -
[17] - Quote
This thread is good. |
Joel Vaille
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
4
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Posted - 2016.06.10 09:32:07 -
[18] - Quote
Are you the type of dude who tries to organize stuff in militia chat? Those people are so funny. When no one responds to "is anyone hunting in factional warfare tonight?" They think something is wrong with calmil and not with how incredibly stupid they sound. |
Glitch Lampshade
Distortion. Amplified.
20
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Posted - 2016.06.28 13:59:08 -
[19] - Quote
Joel Vaille wrote:Are you the type of dude who tries to organize stuff in militia chat? Those people are so funny. When no one responds to "is anyone hunting in factional warfare tonight?" They think something is wrong with calmil and not with how incredibly stupid they sound.
I mean... Regardless of who they are. This is the issue with Calmil. Something that effects it would seem individuals and the corps and alliances.
People laughing at the general militia trying to find content while sitting in your ivory tower of an alliance. The biggest issue with Calmil is that all the main alliances like to do their own thing. And the quote above is an example of the mindset.
To the OP: Come put an alt in my alliance youll see most of those points brought up by me so plus 1 on your accuracy.
fingers crossed when you kill us off this time people will realize change is needed. Until then, see you on the field <3. |
Raya Efiel
Mass HaVoK KAOS Unlimited
6
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Posted - 2016.06.28 23:48:19 -
[20] - Quote
I spent some time in CSSYN/HECON (CalMil), and We were almost always on Militia Comms in some form or another. I can only remember a few days out of almost 6 months where I logged in and didn't have a fleet already roaming that I could join.
The alliance had clear goals, and would often work with other CalMil alliances to get certaint objectives accomplished (I often saw us work with BLOC) Just from the LP, I was able to get multiples of a bunch of frig hulls ready to go out anytime, as well as a few larger ships.SPROT realy isn't the best place to realy enjoy FW.
From personal experiance, Crimson Serpent Syndicate (CSSYN in Heiian Conglomerate (HECON) was a fun corp to fly with, and quite helpful in learning FW mechanics, and open to trying out new or weird fleets from time to time.
EDIT: Formatting for ease of reading. |
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Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
746
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Posted - 2016.07.06 14:26:01 -
[21] - Quote
Glitch Lampshade wrote:Joel Vaille wrote:Are you the type of dude who tries to organize stuff in militia chat? Those people are so funny. When no one responds to "is anyone hunting in factional warfare tonight?" They think something is wrong with calmil and not with how incredibly stupid they sound. fingers crossed when you kill us off this time people will realize change is needed. Until then, see you on the field <3.
I've seen some interesting things in my time but I've never seen a leader hoping for his side to get killed off again just so he can prove a point. That's very sad to read.
Quote:Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones weGÇÖve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek GÇô Barack Obama
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve .
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Glitch Lampshade
Distortion. Amplified.
21
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Posted - 2016.07.06 15:33:38 -
[22] - Quote
I am no leader,
Just an FC.
I am hoping a change of attitude will happen, because right now ... its awful. Nothing i have done has changed it. So fingers crossed IF we loose again... It may change. |
May Arethusa
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
156
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Posted - 2016.07.06 17:38:08 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:People laughing at the general militia trying to find content while sitting in your ivory tower of an alliance. The biggest issue with Calmil is that all the main alliances like to do their own thing. And the quote above is an example of the mindset.
Pretty much this, all over. Insularity has been a long standing and deep seated issue with CalMil for as long as I can remember, along with a propensity to allow internal drama to interfere with the bigger picture. This has improved a lot over the past few years, but it could always be better. I've always said that CalMil are slow learners, and two years down the road it is still true.
There is still a huge disconnect between the major alliances and the rest of the militia however, which remains our biggest flaw. That guy trying to muster up a handful of pilots to plex shouldn't be laughed at, he should be encouraged. Sure, his attempts might seem disorganised and borderline amusing at times, but with a little support and experience behind him, he's a potential FC who you'd give your left arm for while you station spin, sullenly recalling the "glory days" when there were 50-man cruiser fleets roaming the warzone on a daily basis. They don't happen any more, purely because there are few FCs left willing to "endure" genmil pilots. If they look like an idiot, they will be treated as such and either ignored, removed, or offered advice with thinly veiled contempt and open impatience. Until this improves, CalmIl will continue to die a slow death, wondering where all it's member have gone. |
Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
746
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Posted - 2016.07.07 02:32:33 -
[24] - Quote
Glitch Lampshade wrote:I am no leader,
Just an FC.
I am hoping a change of attitude will happen, because right now ... its awful. Nothing i have done has changed it. So fingers crossed IF we loose again... It may change.
An FC IS a leader!People will follow you onto the battlefield and will do whatever you say. If you believe it, they will follow.
I remember you when we were both in Gallente and you were growing through the ranks as an FC. You were junior at the time and constantly taking cruiser fleets out trying to grow your tradecraft. Sometimes you won. Sometimes you lost. But it never stopped you from believing. I remember thinking you'd be really good someday if people would leave you alone and let you do your thing. Unfortunately, militia politics got in the way and Villore Accords bullied you out of the militia due to personal conflict and animosity.
I have no doubt that being an FC in Caldariland is a challenge. After being beaten for so many years, I imagine the culture is just an acceptance of mediocrity and total apathy. How can you show them that winning is possible when the current generation has known nothing but losing? Your belief system has to be so strong that it has to overcome all doubt that they have.
I know change is possible. Gallente was beaten many years ago by the Caldari and a single FC came along and helped turned it around. Whether you can be that hero, is up to you. There is no need answer here on forums. Just food for thought :)
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve .
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Oreb Wing
Moira. Villore Accords
170
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Posted - 2016.07.07 05:00:35 -
[25] - Quote
Fugging cloaked button spinning mission bombers! #neveragain
As for Glitch. I remember that my first kill with a thorax was with him. We killed ourselves a drake. I feel like I've come a long ways since then. A lot of that was due to the patience of FC's like glitch and dopefied. Yamcha, though, that fugger always got me blowed up. I somewhat recall a Mr. Wispa that was pretty chill too. Ah, reminds me of less complicated times! |
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Hoplite Brigade Ushra'Khan
369
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Posted - 2016.07.07 11:12:58 -
[26] - Quote
Too many in Cal Mil buy into the propaganda that Gal Mil are invincible. From my experience in Cal Mil the biggest problem was that there was no will to fight, certainly in the EU timezone. I swear I was willing to scream whenever I posted in an intel channel about a Gal Mil fleet we could engage and get told 'no they are too strong'.
No war was ever won on the defensive. If Cal Mil is ever to make headway it needs to get over its self doubt and FIGHT!
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
627
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Posted - 2016.07.07 14:42:44 -
[27] - Quote
Why you make me fly all the way to Rakapas to make the pew pew with you?
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:Too many in Cal Mil buy into the propaganda that Gal Mil are invincible. From my experience in Cal Mil the biggest problem was that there was no will to fight, certainly in the EU timezone. I swear I was willing to scream whenever I posted in an intel channel about a Gal Mil fleet we could engage and get told 'no they are too strong'.
No war was ever won on the defensive. If Cal Mil is ever to make headway it needs to get over its self doubt and FIGHT!
Black Fox Marauders is Recruiting
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Roy Henry
Black Fox Marauders
62
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Posted - 2016.07.07 18:01:55 -
[28] - Quote
What eve o thread is better: a galmil circle jerk or a cal mil pity party.
I'm a circle jerk traditionalist ur this pity party is takin off. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Snuffed Out
1578
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Posted - 2016.07.08 01:44:49 -
[29] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:
I've seen some interesting things in my time but I've never seen a leader hoping for his side to get killed off again just so he can prove a point. That's very sad to read.
It has happened before. Like when Mr Duffo orchestrated the OICX massacre a few years back.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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SmokinJs Arthie
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
130
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Posted - 2016.07.08 04:08:15 -
[30] - Quote
God I remember that. What genius wants to take a system between fortress Eha and Vlill the longest held system in facwar.
Justified Chaos is recruiting.
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